Feedback on Crown DC300A as LF amp

[oldr&b]

Help me with this, please.

IMO, a decent used not abused $300 Crown DC300A connected bridged mono represents the best value in a low frequency specific power amplifier. I'm talking minimum 500 RMS 8 ohm bombproof watts @ .05% THD down to 1 Hertz. Please tell me what gives more bang for the buck in this specific application.

Also, I believe it's the KING OF SPARES. The amp to keep around for when the ship hits the sand.

[4313B]

I just picked up yet another Citation 22 for $300. It's Consumer Crap though, so people on this forum might retch if not using balanced gear. :rotfl:

*****

Anyway, I've done the Crown D-150A and DC-300A with 4315B's, 4333B's, 4343B's, 4430's and 4435's and they both work well enough. I think the Citation 19 and Citation 22 are a bit better, the Citation 19 should probably be limited to just LF even after being modified with poly bypass caps. One could say the Citation 22 is a bit grungy on the top end and should also be limited to the LF but it's certainly a bit better than either Crown full range, or the Citation 16A or Citation 19 for that matter. Adcom GFA-545 and GFA-555 aren't bad either, although I don't know what they are going for these days - they too should be in the $150 to $300 range. Any of them should probably satisfy modest home LF requirements.

[PaulB]

I'm overall very very happy with my Crown gear and agree they give damn good bang for the buck and have been nearly indestructable in my experience (I've owned most of mine since new, approx. '78). If you want a great laugh you have to read the original service manuals, (I have them if they are helpful to anyone). Whoever wrote them had a damn good sense of humor and among other things they describe their potential as welding power sources...

[Tom Loizeaux]

Hey, I'm a Crown amp fan, but remember that DC means direct current, so I've been told. It WILL put out 1 Hz! I've known these DC Crown amps to fry speakers when over driven. If you use these, you should use some sub-sonic filtering in your signal path.
I use the Crown PS series amps partly because they have a 10Hz roll-off and a sub-sonic detector circuit.

Tom

[PaulB]

:eek: well, knock on wood...

[oldr&b]

Tom, you're certainly right. With DC300s if DC gets in, then DC goes out! Not for nothing, as our colleague noted above, could they conceivably be used for WELDING! Caveat emptor. Keep the input clean.

For another fascinating use of the wonderful DC300, check this out: www.sl-prokeys.com/prokeys/power.htm

[oldr&b]

By the way, I readily acknowledge the DC300s main shortcoming and it's significant. They don't sound good enough to be used as a full range amplifier (except in emergencies!). However, IMO, if you want a tight, stone reliable LF amp, they're better than anything else.

[4313B]

Well, that's you're opinion :)

I've owned both and even A/B'd them on several occassions. I still own the Citation 22's and don't hesitate to snag them when they show up for the stupid price of only $300. If you have the Crowns then use them for sure but don't cry if you can't find any for $300 because an Adcom GFA or Citation 22 will bust them up on the bottom end and you should be able to pick them up for $300 as well.

Whatever floats your boat. :smthsail:

*****

"I'm talking minimum 500 RMS 8 ohm bombproof watts @ .05% THD down to 1 Hertz."
Well, if one is into reading specs:

Crown DC-300A (FTC)
250 watts/channel into 4 ohms from 1 Hz to 20 kHz at 0.05% THD
155 watts/channel into 8 ohms from 1 Hz to 20 kHz at 0.05% THD
500 watts mono into 8 ohms from 1 Hz to 20 kHz at 0.05% THD
310 watts mono into 16 ohms from 1 Hz to 20 kHz at 0.05% THD
8 volts per microsecond slew rate (stereo)
16 volts per microsecond slew rate (mono)
Frequency Response is DC to 100 kHz +- 0.1 dB

Citation 22 (FTC)
200 watts/channel into 4 ohms from 20 Hz to 20kHz at 0.08% THD
200 watts/channel into 8 ohms from 20 Hz to 20kHz at 0.08% THD
400 watts/channel into 8 ohms from 20 Hz to 20kHz at 0.12% THD
160 volts per microsecond slew rate
Power Bandwidth is 10 Hz to 100 kHz
Frequency Response is 0.1 Hz to 250 kHz - 3 dB
Negative Feedback is 12 dB
Instantaneous Current Capability is +- 120 amps
Dymanic Power
High Voltage/High Current Mode
300 watts 8 ohms
500 watts 4 ohms
800 watts 2 ohms
High Current Mode
300 watts 4 ohms
500 watts 2 ohms
Bridged-mono Mode
600 watts 8 ohms
1000 watts 4 ohms

Anyway, that about does it for me and talking "amps" and "specs". One would really need to A/B them to get a feel for what they preferred. I've owned both and didn't cry about owning either one :p

I just react when I hear KING and bombproof and stuff :rotfl:

[oldr&b]

Point taken, Giskard. I'm sure I've never heard a system that would let me appreciate the difference in a LF A-B shoot out. I'm splitting hairs for sure. Thanks for bearing with me. Opinions are like noses, yadda yadda yadda.:p

[House de Kris]

For PA work, I have no trouble using Crown gear. I too use(d) a DC300A for subwoofer duty. In addition, a D150II for the woofer, a D-40 for the mids/tweets, and D-60 for monitors. Still looking for a D-75. Interestingly, all of these amps in the "D" series sound very similar, except the D-40 in my opinion. The little one is actually pretty nice. Perhaps I'm crazy, dunno. Oh, and I spent only two hunnerd smackers on my DC300A at the local swapshop.

Recently I picked up a Peavey DECA-528 (I think that's the number) for about $170. 250WPC@4ohm 1U high deep box amp. I've only listened to it for a short time, and the highs and mids are gawd-awful. The test will be the durability of this amp.

My biggest issue with the DC300A is its sheer weight. I admire brute-force designs, and love heavy amps in the home. But after lugging the rack with the DC300A and D150II in it around, I opted for a more powerful and lighter QSC amp.

In general, I've never heard any of these amps in bridged mode, so can't give comments on your specific needs. But my feelings thus far is that just about any rugged powerful amp should give you good results on a sub. Then finding the best bang for the buck is merely how lucky you are in shopping.

I could be wrong, what do the experts say?

[oldr&b]

Kris, I guess I'm an old tin-eared rock & roll PA worshiping throwback and Crown is my link to that "olds'cool" stuff.

Maybe I'm wishing my Crown stuff had more "value" than it really does. I hate self-delusion but maybe that's what's coloring my judgement!

"They say confession's good for the soul..."

[SteveLeigh]

Originally posted by oldr&b

For another fascinating use of the wonderful DC300, check this out: www.sl-prokeys.com/prokeys/power.htm [/B]

This act of insanity was forced upon me (us). I traveled to Europe with a very hot band, we tried a voltage converter, but the Hammond requires 60Hz to synchronize. 50 Hz get you flat, well below pitch. It became a frantic event to get the damn Hammond to play.

The solution was right under our noses, but it took a week to see it. If I recall properly, we sent 60Hz to the input, slowly cranked the output, and found 115vac on the terminals. 60 seconds later, the output was connected to a normal wall outlet, and during that and subsequent tours, we never had a drop of trouble with line freq synchronization.

FWIW - the Hammond is the only motor driven instrument on stage. Everything else can get away with 56 HZ or 62 Hz.

Side note: I bought my first JBL 4320s in 1971. Then bought a 2nd pair. Still have 'em, still love 'em. And here's the kick: they're guaranteed for LIFE.

The foam surrounds on the 2215 LFs have disintegrated from components in the ozone *FOUR TIMES*. Complete rebild cost absolutley zero. A call to Northridge, I selected a quality recone shop locally, JBL shipped complete rebuild kits out for all 4 2215s, and replacement = no charge. Amazing for speakers originally sold in 1971.

Plenty of interesting recording data at my site:

www.sl-prokeys.com

Best,
Steve

[Oldmics]

Man,I been in Pro hell for many a year now and that is the first time that I have ever heard of of stablizing a Leslie by using an amplifer.Pretty slick trick. A sincere thanks for that tip.


Best regards,Oldmics

[oldr&b]

Steve Leigh, small world! I've added your sweet and super web site to my list of favorites. I admire your item I listed here not only for the keen technical aspect but for scintillating writing style. Thank you and I'm truly sorry for your profound loss.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Love that Pa experience.....if only we could turn back the clock.

Have a look at some of the newer mostfet pro power amps, they are surprisingly cheap these days and can really dump some current into low impediance loads.

Ian

[PSS AUDIO]

Originally posted by Ian Mackenzie
Have a look at some of the newer mostfet pro power amps, they are surprisingly cheap these days and can really dump some current into low impediance loads.

Ian

Good morning!

But how do they sound?

That IS the question, do they sound good or do they sound bad?

What is the use spending little money for an awful sound?

About DC and Crown DC300 amplifiers letting DC in and out, the best thing is not placing a filter in the audio circuitry as you will loose the benefit of DC sound, one must place, as I do, at the output of the amplifier a DC detector and when there is more than 2V, then the output relay disconnects the speaker from the amplifier.

The trick is done and you can have all the benefit of those very low frequencies one cannot hear but one can feel!

[Alex Lancaster]

Loved that trick of using an amp to get 60Hz!!; Now You can buy not too expensive solid state phase inverters in all sizes, but they use to be horribly expensive, specially the motor-generator type.

Alex.

[asta]

This act of insanity was forced upon me (us). I traveled to Europe with a very hot band, we tried a voltage converter, but the Hammond requires 60Hz to synchronize. 50 Hz get you flat, well below pitch. It became a frantic event to get the damn Hammond to play.

The solution was right under our noses, but it took a week to see it. If I recall properly, we sent 60Hz to the input, slowly cranked the output, and found 115vac on the terminals. 60 seconds later, the output was connected to a normal wall outlet, and during that and subsequent tours, we never had a drop of trouble with line freq synchronization.

FWIW - the Hammond is the only motor driven instrument on stage. Everything else can get away with 56 HZ or 62 Hz.

Side note: I bought my first JBL 4320s in 1971. Then bought a 2nd pair. Still have 'em, still love 'em. And here's the kick: they're guaranteed for LIFE.

The foam surrounds on the 2215 LFs have disintegrated from components in the ozone *FOUR TIMES*. Complete rebild cost absolutley zero. A call to Northridge, I selected a quality recone shop locally, JBL shipped complete rebuild kits out for all 4 2215s, and replacement = no charge. Amazing for speakers originally sold in 1971.

Plenty of interesting recording data at my site:

[/URL]

Best,
Steve "Looney" Leigh

I tried to buy an organ from this guy, but this guy is a not job. The used organs that he had left out in the yard were worthless and overpriced. When I refused to buy one from him; I started receiving crank phone calls late at night. Then I find these two sites about him. http://www.jsbigdog.blogbus.com (http://www.sl-prokeys.com) and [url]http://www.greatauntirma.wordpress.com He has been charged and convicted of making harassing phone calls against someone.

He claims to be some sort of famous musician, so he has given up his right to privacy. He is also violent. He has a restraining order from his ex-wife from when he was beating her.

[JeffW]

Luckily, it looks to be some 6 years since he's graced this site with his presence.

[jbl_daddy]

I used a DC300 ll running two B380's in my theater and replaced it with a crown k2. Much more distinction on the sub. I still use one in mono for a single B380 in my family room and am very happy.

[louped garouv]

I used a DC300 ll running two B380's in my theater and replaced it with a crown k2. Much more distinction on the sub. I still use one in mono for a single B380 in my family room and am very happy.


do you think it's the additional power you are liking?

[jbl_daddy]

Yes, I immediately noticed the difference. I am a huge fan of the DC300 so please do not think i am bashing them. Ps. I own 4 DC300's and would never part with them.
Mark