PDA

View Full Version : Reality Check please ;)



PaulB
02-03-2004, 01:12 PM
Hello folks...

As I alluded to in my first post here, I have a "vintage" but I think pretty darned nice system, and am a semi serious, but only modestly obsessed audiophile. My question is this... I have an every increasing tower of audio gear between my 2 channel gear and some HT additions. The thought occasionally occurs to me (and I know this has been debated since just after Edison cut his first cylinder), would I be likely to notice a loss of quality ditching my currently six foot tall rack O' gear and buying a single high end receiver? Although I think I have a feeling I know the likely answer, I've been out of the marketplace for a while and this seems like a damned good down to earth group to ask... thanks for anyone who takes the time to reply.

boputnam
02-03-2004, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by PaulB
My question is ... would I be likely to notice a loss of quality ditching my currently six foot tall rack O' gear and buying a single high end receiver? :yes:

PaulB
02-03-2004, 01:41 PM
LOLLLLLLLLLLLLL... a picture is worth a thousand words... ty

boputnam
02-03-2004, 01:54 PM
:rotfl:

We've gone around on this issue "plenty times" here. There is no easy solution, and maintain top-of-shelf HiFi. From what I know, many run two systems - the bone chilling 2-channel HiFi and the 5.1 (or other...) bone rattling HT. Then some try a modified approach.

I think many here would love to find a nice pre-amp with switchable option: 2.0 and 5.1. Otherwise you end-up with redundant (and potentially dangerous :eek: ) redundancies, and too many separate gains (and remotes...). So far, all 5.1's I've tasted do awful things in the pre-amp stage - all sorta unnessesary processing, IMO. Simply ruins it.

I've settled in to running 2.0 with 4345's as the front (and a golf course for the rears... ;) ) for both HiFi and HT. When those 2245H's get the floor and your chest involved, there ain't much "surround sound" missing...

I know Giskard has invested heaps of energy and :hmm: seeking a solution - maybe he'll pitch-up and share his insight...

PaulB
02-03-2004, 02:12 PM
sighhhhhhhhhhhh... but the new receivers are so sexy...and have a very high blinky light coefficient. But, it's about what I thought was the case. I too use my 4343's for HT fronts, as well as my Crown equip and they certainly are overachievers. BTW, I've noticed a few folks here post pictures of their systems like proud parents so thought I'd do the same, hope that's not inappropriate...

The problem with this group is now you guys having me browsing all kinds of JBL Google listings, auctions and audio sites again... grrrrrrrr... cmon Lotto, come to Papa.

PaulB
02-03-2004, 02:20 PM
ouchhhhhhhhh... now that's cruel Giskard, just cruel... I actually looked at that link... 107 thou??? sighhhh. The HK receiver was actually one of the ones I was considering. Free? Free??? Well, I get free power tools by the bushel basket so I guess I can't complain. On second thought, yeah... I can ;)

boputnam
02-03-2004, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by PaulB
I've noticed a few folks here post pictures of their systems like proud parents so thought I'd do the same, hope that's not inappropriate... Completely inappropriate. :scold:

And, if that's the crap you're using for 2.0, well then you, in-particular, would realize a big improvement with 5.1 HT blinky-light processor. Now, I think I can get my trailer over to your place in record time :scoot: and make plenty room for the pending delivery of the 5.1... :rotfl:

Nice rig, dude! :thmbsup:

And, Giskard - when you run the fronts only, for 2.0, what do you drive it with? Just use the HT through the fronts, or... :confused:

PaulB
02-03-2004, 02:28 PM
LOL... ty Bo, you Master of the animatronic icon.

boputnam
02-03-2004, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by Giskard
I use an old Citation 21 preamp and Citation 22 power amp for two-channel stereo. I use another Citation 22 power amp out of the AVR for subs. Sorry, dude - so close to the fire I get excited... :nutz:

How do you "switch" from 2.0 to 5.1 - are there parallel inputs on the Citation 22 (driving the 4430's)? I gotta think about this...

*****

...or, do you keep the 2.0 as-is, and then merely run the H/K for the rears? If so, how do you split the signal into the H/K and Citation 21?

Tom Loizeaux
02-03-2004, 05:21 PM
That's a very pretty pair of 4343s! Nice finish, original cloth and even original nameplates!
What amps do you drive the 4343s with?

Though I've come to accept 5.1 for movie viewing, I am still a believer in simple, 2 channel stereo for serious music listening. To me, a high quality 2 channel system leaves very little to wish for...other then even higher quality!

Tom

boputnam
02-03-2004, 06:05 PM
Hey, PaulB...

Look here: http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1639

As I said, we go 'round about this not infrequently. Some interesting stuff, here, and if you're independently wealthy (or the wifey goes on seperate holiday...) that Accuphase CX-260 suggestion by WHG looks tops... :yes: (but I simply do not understand the merits nor reasoning behind summing the 6 line-amplifiers when in stereo. Seems overly complicated, and I would think could raise the noise floor - but I'm not overly schooled on these things...).

PaulB
02-04-2004, 05:12 AM
Thanks Tom... I'm the original owner of those beauties and aside from a very small ding on one edge from moving they're like the day I got em. Damn nameplates keep coming off the pins, I don't know how many times I've epoxied them on. Other than that I reconed both woofers. I drive them with biamped Crown DC300As with a Behringer crossover. Yeah I had read the earlier thread about the surrond preamps Bo, so I guess my only solution is... build a bigger rack to hold more gear :cool:

Tom Loizeaux
02-04-2004, 05:28 AM
PaulB,
Please tell me more about how the 4343 nameplates were originally mounted.
I'm going to be putting nameplates on my 4343s and I thought they were simply glued to the grille cloth. I was going to try double-sided foam tape first. If that doesn't keep them on, then I was going to try some kind of glue, probably starting with hot glue and then work my way up to more serious stuff. I'm concerned that serious glues will permantly marr the grille cloth - which is original on my pair of 4343s.
Any suggestions?

Tom

PaulB
02-04-2004, 06:09 AM
Tom...
On mine, there're small "L" shaped black metal pieces tacked to the inside edge of the frame with a very small hole drilled. The nameplates have a pin on the back identical to what a tie tack would have which was originally affixed with a piece of heavy clear vinyl tape that dries out, hence the epoxy. The pin passes through the hole and is retianed by a button again identical to a tie tack. If this isn't cealr, please let me know and I'll be lgad to forward some photos. As I mentioned I have all the original brochures etc if it's helpful to anyone out there... Best Wishes.

boputnam
02-04-2004, 07:13 AM
Yea, Tom, they're just like the 4345's.

As PaulB sez, the nameplate has two metal pins mounted to it (about a foot apart on the 4345's), that pierce the grill cloth and go through holes in the metal tangs that hang from the top of the grill (behind the cloth). Tie-tack like snuggers slip over the pins, behind the metal tangs.

PaulB
02-04-2004, 07:21 AM
Tom... although this may be obvious... I'd recommend against the gluing/taping idea if at all possible. It seems to me the weight of the plates, while low, is enough to cause your cloth to develop a sag or pucker over time. If you don't have any tools, I'd be glad to measure the "L" brackets and make a few up for you. (Sorry for all the typos in my previous post, haste makes... well, sloppiness :banghead: )

Tom Loizeaux
02-04-2004, 12:03 PM
Guys, great information! Yes, I will try the "pin" method.
My 4343 frames have these L brackets with tiny holes in them...now I know why! I can drill brackets for my other monitors that will be gretting nameplates as well.
I just need to find a source for these "tie tack" pins attached to discs.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,

Tom

PaulB
02-04-2004, 12:10 PM
I bet if you contacted a craft shop, especially one that sells supplies to jewelry makers, they'd have just the ticket...

Tom Loizeaux
02-04-2004, 03:11 PM
Paul,
The nameplates on your 4343s seem much shorter then all the other JBL studio monitor nameplates I've seen (or have).
Did these come this way? If so, does it look as if they were sized this way from the factory?
Thanks,

Tom

PaulB
02-05-2004, 05:06 AM
Hiya Tom,

Yes, these are factory original, and match the spacing on the metal brackets previously discussed. If you like I can measure them, but I suspect the apparent shortness is perspective distortion from the camera angle...

boputnam
02-05-2004, 08:02 AM
Originally posted by PaulB
... I suspect the apparent shortness is perspective distortion from the camera angle... Yea, I've tried that line too... :rotfl:

PaulB
02-05-2004, 08:09 AM
LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL... well, thats what I tell myself when I look down :shock: thanks for shattering my illusions...nice friend you are...

boputnam
02-05-2004, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by PaulB
...nice friend you are... OK, this is my last offer. Send me those 4343's and I'll be friends... :p

I need them for my computer - I just can't get the 4345's on the desk...

PaulB
02-05-2004, 08:38 AM
too late... I traded them to a guy in a white van for some cool "Altek Lannsing" speakers... rated at 10000 watts each so he says they're really loud, his boss ordered too many and they have to go, but he made me a special deal...

On a serious note... anyone interested in this Levison crossover? Needs power supply work and I keep telling my self I'm going to do it, but it's never going to happen. Madrigal wants your first born so this is definately a piece for someone with a good test bench and troubleshooting experience, I suspect a bad filter or coupling cap or the like...

thevott
02-05-2004, 09:01 AM
On the original subject, I have taken a Conservative approach to the surround sound paradigm. As an old school monaural and stereo kid I have decided to carefully and experimentally augment my existing two channel systems starting with the addition of a center channel and eventually rears. I am doing this with, not a receiver, but a Sony surround Processor that I am borrowing from a friend. This is allowing me to easily continue to equalize, bi-amp, and to use my existing stack of big heavy equipment!! So far, I'm getting good results with my little livingroom JBL's and Altecs. As soon as this cold spell lets up and my garage is warm enough I am looking forward to trying the processor out with my big Altec barn system using an A7 in the center and the little Model Nineteens as rear speakers. I will be happy to report my findings!

JuniorJBL
02-20-2004, 08:02 AM
I use an Adcom GFP 750 and it has a "Processor" loop which removes all "preamp fuctions" when in this mode. When I turn it on 7.1 from my adcom gtp830 and when I turn it off WaLa!! Great 2 channel w/balanced outputs!:D
Hope this helps
Shane

boputnam
02-20-2004, 10:18 AM
Hey, Shane...

I'm intrigued, but confused... :spin:

What exactly is the signal path(s)? Do you path from the GFP-750 to the GTP-830 when in 7.1 mode? So, you have dual imputs into your Front amp (one from the GFP-750 (balanced), and one from the GTP-830)?

I need a bar napkin for this - Giskard!!??

JuniorJBL
02-20-2004, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by boputnam
Hey, Shane...

I'm intrigued, but confused... :spin:



I need a bar napkin for this - Giskard!!??
:thmbsup: I use it the other way around.
Front outs on my gtp 830 into my processor input on the GTP 750
GCD 750 is through the GFP 750 (balanced)
SPDIF for surround is in GTP 830 L&R out of my Yamaha DVD2300MKII into aux on my GFP 750 for 2 channel SACD/DVD-A
This way all 2 channel music bypasses HT setup and uses the GREAT SOUNDING GFP 750 (GFP stands for"GREAT FARGEN PREAMP")HeHe!!
:D