4345's Vs 4435's

[jblbgw_man]

Hi guys, I posted this in another thread but thought maybe a new thread was warranted. I've been reading with much interest about DIY 4345's and having a pair of 4435's and 4430's previous to this, I was wondering how these 4345's compare to the 4435's ?? I'd be interested in your comments. I may wish to undertake construction of a pair of 4345 clones myself as I'm itching for a new project (haven't told the wife yet), I am wondering how easiy is it to source the original drivers. Your feedback is appreciated.

[Robh3606]

Getting the drivers the main issue will be the 2122 midranges. Those are the hardest of the drivers to get. You can get cores and fresh recone kits providing they are still available. The aluminum compression driver diaphrams are available as well however they are a bit pricey.

[boputnam]

I am decidedly biased, owning the 4345, but have heard both.

The 4345 has an unbeatable low-end. Their bass response is remarkable - the 2245H is responsive, very tonal and solid. Quite unbelievable and unequalled, I believe, for studio monitor/home applications.

The 4435 is smoother in the upper ranges - newer, and larger diaphragm, and better horn dispersion.

The 4435, being basically an augmented two-way, has fewer crossover points and therefore fewer anomalies.

The engineering supporting the 4345 handles it's four-way design really well. I find their imaging quite impressive, although their "depth of soundstage" is vastly improved (and overall response smoothed) with the TAD TD-2002 in-place of the 2421B (as good as it is...). The TD-2002 is a remarkable driver, and it covers the critical vocal range with ease. It tames the 2307 like nothing I've heard.

These are both incredible offerings, really of two distinct classes. I don't believe a heads-up comparison is fair, to either...

[remusr]

I have the 4430's, 4435's and recently received my pair of 4345's. All were used when I got them but I am pretty sure the individual components are up to snuff - I have reconed the 4430 woofs, the 4435's are fine and all the 4345 components have been reconed/dia'd.

The 4430's and 4435's w/ passive xo's. Both sound similar in the treble but the 4435's are much better balanced and have great, occasionally awesome, bass and play very loud for a home system. Plus's: great treble dispersion, easy to listen to for extended periods, extended low end and little sonic compression when cranked. Negs: rather large & heavy(esp the 4435's), poor imaging, poor detail of individual instruments, imprecise soundstage, no ultra highs/shimmer.

The 4345's w/ passive xover - No comparison. Airy soundstage with width, depth and pretty precise imaging. Extended lows even beyond that of the 4430/35's and extended highs/shimmer as my L300's but smoother/more delicate somehow. Fast, realistic and believable/realistic vocals and instruments. They play as loud as the 4435's but will go further by occasionally making me jump when cranked, on transients like the start of songs or big changes in intensity. How do I characterize the sound? Well, my wife smiles listening to them and said without prompting that she "likes them a lot...but why are they so big?" And I enjoy BB King better on them than I did hearing him live in concert last week. 'Nuff said.

All w/ active xo's - waiting on 5235 cards a forum member is kindly building for me to hear in active mode.

Accompanying equip - Mac C41/MC352, Onkyo CD player, Alesis CD recorder/player, Systemdek IIX turntable w/ various MM & MC cartridges. Comparison - I like the larger Focals too but I need to listen more to the 4345's to resolve that!
Roy

[Mr. Widget]

I have the 4430's, 4435's and recently received my pair of 4345's....

The 4430's and 4435's.... Plus's: great treble dispersion, easy to listen to for extended periods, extended low end and little sonic compression when cranked. Negs: rather large & heavy(esp the 4435's), poor imaging, poor detail of individual instruments, imprecise soundstage, no ultra highs/shimmer.

The 4345's w/ passive xover - No comparison. Airy soundstage with width, depth and pretty precise imaging. Extended lows even beyond that of the 4430/35's and extended highs/shimmer as my L300's but smoother/more delicate somehow. Fast, realistic and believable/realistic vocals and instruments.I agree with your assessment completely.

There are those who look at the 4430/35's superior controlled directivity, their elegance of essentially being two-ways, and their superior time alignment and seem to either be more responsive to these characteristics or are actually biased by the 4430/35's objectively superior performance... for me subjectively there is no comparison. The 4345 just sounds better.



Widget

[Guido]

I have the 4430's, 4435's and recently received my pair of 4345's. All were used when I got them but I am pretty sure the individual components are up to snuff - I have reconed the 4430 woofs, the 4435's are fine and all the 4345 components have been reconed/dia'd.

Roy

Roy,

think about cc networks. You'll be shocked!

The 4430/4435 crossovers are much less complicated to build in cc as the 4345 crossovers.

[jblbgw_man]

Thanks for your comments guys, I recall waayyyy back in the late 70's/early 80's that the 4345 was what I wanted to build, but finances at the time prevented it, then later I copied the 4430 as it was the latest and greatest and cheaper, although I have always had a fascination for the multi way systems, so I suppose my inquisitiveness for the 4345 has never been fulfilled. I have a couple more questions if you don’t mind.


I cannot find any info on the JBL site for the 2122, is the 2123 a fair substitute? and presumably less scarce.
Thanks Bo for the heads up on the TAD driver as a substitute for the 2421.
Are there any other places besides ebay that one can source second hand JBL components? Looks like I will start slowly collecting the components.
Is the crossover schematic available on here?Thanks again for your comments. :cheers:

[hjames]

There are a number of approaches to the 3145 crossover network - you can build your own take on the original circuit - hard to do as it used tapped inductors that we can't actually get anymore. (See the technical section of the forum for the schematic ... http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=10656)

A few folks are building updated crossovers of various flavours -
Giskard has posted an "equivalent" network (without the tapped inductors) last year -

Giskard & Riessen are building a Charge Coupled redesign for the 4343/4345 monitors - search for more specifics.

Ian has posted another approach to an updated design on the 3145 networks ... search for that ...

There are other threads that touch on the toipic and have additional insights ... Lots and Lots of info in the forums - its worth taking a few evenings and searching out the nuggets - bookmark or print the goods stuff for future reference.



Is the crossover schematic available on here?Thanks again for your comments. :cheers:

Go here - http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=10656
click on Network Schematics (it links to the JBL Pro site) and look up 3145
that will get you the original design!

[Ian Mackenzie]

They are both totally different approaches. Particularly the type of room acoustics they are best suited to so its difficult to draw comparisons.

I have heard both Bo's stock 4345's and John Nebel's 4435's and I can understand why they are both favourites.

The 4435 is overall a very smooth system. But if you want more control overall being able to adjust 4 bands is nice with the 4345.

In most domestic listening rooms the 4345's smoke the 4435's in terms of life like presentation. (the 4435 needs control room acoustics to work correctly). The 4435 bi radial also runs out of steam above 10,000 hz in terms of transient detail...ribbon leaf super tweeters anyone!

My recommendation is that you build a pair of 4344's. You can also try out the 2123 mid cone using the newer 4344mk11 crossover.

The reason is they are much easier to build and have a smaller foot print.

The stock 4435 and the 4345 was somewhat limited by the dated crossover parts and are nice for the the TV and Home theatre.

If you can be bothered with the expense of a crossover upgrade both systems will impress to the extent of the amplification you can afford.

Some people have played around with TAD compression drivers and treated stock JBL diaphragms.

If you feel the urge do it but frankly there are better more technically advanced loudspeakers available today for the cost of the whole outlay.

[4313B]

They are both totally different approaches. Particularly the type of room acoustics they are best suited to so its difficult to draw comparisons.Yes.
I have heard both Bo's stock 4345's and John Nebel's 4435's and I can understand why they are both favourites.Yes.
My recommendation is that you build a pair of 4344's. You can also try out the 2123 mid cone using the newer 4344mk11 crossover.

The reason is they are much easier to build and have a smaller foot print. Rick and I are tossing around an even smaller foot print, something very similar to the 4315 size. You know, just for the sake of science. :)

[Robh3606]

Rick and I are tossing around an even smaller foot print, something very similar to the 4315 size. You know, just for the sake of science. :)

I bet;) ,using and Le-14H-3 as the bass driver could really set you up with one hell of a system in a much smaller box.

Rob:)

[X_X]

I bet;) ,using and Le-14H-3 as the bass driver could really set you up with one hell of a system in a much smaller box.

Rob:)


Yes, it would! Or start all over. Imagine a simple LE14H1/3, a 2122H, and a Raven R1 in a fully active 3way. Use a DEQX to sort it out. Stand back. :cool:

[4313B]

I bet;) ,using and Le-14H-3 as the bass driver could really set you up with one hell of a system in a much smaller box.

Rob:)Yeah, yeah. LE14H-3 and 2123H. I don't build these systems in three days though so I'm sure several others will run with it.

Use a DEQX to sort it out.That's cheating but I would highly recommend forum members buy a DEQX instead of a whole bunch of software and hardware to figure it all out themselves. Your friend Zilch would actually do well to sell off his museum and get himself a DEQX. Oh, and maybe a truck too as another member pointed out.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I think an adjustable trolly design would to a great project.

Height placement is critical for these types of systems in order to image correctly.

[Guido]

Yeah, yeah. LE14H-3 and 2123H. I don't build these systems in three days though so I'm sure several others will run with it.

Giskard, throw the 2123H, it's a NLA Driver. Can I convince you and Rick to use the 2012H?? ;)

[Ian Mackenzie]

Giskard, throw the 2123H, it's a NLA Driver. Can I convince you and Rick to use the 2012H?? ;)

Actually I was told not long ago they are available to special order.

[Robh3606]

I think an adjustable trolly design would to a great project.


Hello Ian

I set mine up on fixed height dollies and went with an adjustable chair instead. I can easilly change listening height depending on the speakers I am listenning too. Might be a bit easier than having to worry about lifting or lowering those boxes.

Rob:)

[Ian Mackenzie]

You like a pc chair with a high back.

What a splendid idea.

[4313B]

Giskard, throw the 2123H, it's a NLA Driver. Can I convince you and Rick to use the 2012H?? ;)Possibly. If you start delving into this stuff you end up with a large assortment of combinations though. I was thinking primarily of keeping the top end components legacy while trying to get the bottom end components away from refoams as well as minimizing footprint, hence the LE14H-3 and 2123H (which is just a recone away with the legacy 10-inch cores).

[JBLnsince1959]

Can I convince you and Rick to use the 2012H?? ;)



have you compared those to the 2123s'

I've been interested in the 2012's for some time, but haven't bought them. Are they that much better?

[4313B]

Giskard, throw the 2123H, it's a NLA Driver. Can I convince you and Rick to use the 2012H?? ;)It looks like JBL Pro has twenty 2012H in stock as of today at $293 each MSRP.
It is still being decided whether or not they will make another run of them.:dont-know

[ayaboh]

Giskard, throw the 2123H, it's a NLA Driver. ;)

These drivers are still produced. I had to wait 3 months, but else no problem.