250Ti questions from a newbie.

[Dr Tinnitus]

Hello.

This is my first post on this forum, that's why i call me a newbie :D I'll hope my questions are ok even if there are answers some where in this forum. I've tryed ti search for them but didn't found what I want.

I'm living i Sweden and have been a JBL fan from the first time I saw a pair of 250Ti. But back then I coulden't afford them in any way.

As time went by I got me my first own JBL's, a pair of to way monitors named 4301B if I remeber it right.

Aafter some more yeras I bought a pair of JBL HP580 which seems to be quite rare ones.

Here's a few pics on them

http://saab.ath.cx/community/tony418/JBL/IMG_0028.JPG
http://saab.ath.cx/community/tony418/JBL/IMG_0024.JPG
http://saab.ath.cx/community/tony418/JBL/IMG_0018.JPG
http://saab.ath.cx/community/tony418/JBL/IMG_0005.JPG

Now I'm interrested in buying me a pair of the legendary, and my dream, the 250Ti.

I've found a pair for sale, one pair i Denmark which is the Limited Edition in high gloss piano paint. They should be from around 1992 or so.

And a pair of the ordinary 250Ti classic I'll guess in wood finnish here in Sweden not far away from me.

My question is if there still are spare parts to get to these old icons? Are there new foamrings to the speakers to get, and cones if needed? Is it very expensive to fix these speakers up if they are a bit worned out and need to be rebuild?

What differences are there exactly between the piano black Limited Edition and the older ordinary 250Ti in wood finnish? Is the diffrence between them so big that it's important to choose the right one, and which one is that?

The piano black LE in Denmark seems to be a nice pair, but it's a far way to travel to bring them back home. The ordinary ones in wood finnish is just some 45 minutes drive from my home town, so it's a bit tempting to take a look at them, even if they're may be 5-7 years older, from the middle of the eighties or some years earlier.

What would you who have more experience recommend me to do, and why?

Is there anything specific to be aware of, and to check up with these speakers befor deciding to buy a pair of them?


Best Regards

Dr Tinnitus

[Andyoz]

Welcome,

I can only comment on the original 250Ti's. There are certain issues with availability of certain drivers and there's seems to be differing answers depending on whether you are in America or Europe. I suggest you search the forum for some of the more recent threads regarding all the drivers in questions- LE14H-1, 108H, 104H, 044Ti.

The 044Ti's are not available anymore and second hand prices are rising so that is probably the biggest long term risk to keeping these going into the future. :(

For the other three drivers, there are methods for replacing/reconditioning units that should be around for a while.

Anyway, I wouldn't let that put you off. There is access to many good sources of spares in Europe and sourcing them is half the fun really. I saw a good set of 250Ti's sell on German eBay recently for not that much money. It is not beyond reason that you could buy one pristine set of 250's and have a second *rough* set hidden away to salvage for spares.

[Dr Tinnitus]

Thank's for the quick respond on my questions.

I've just found an other pair of 250Ti LE for sale in denmark, for a much better price than the first one I found. The first pair the owner asked for 17900 Kr in Danish currency, which should be some $3256. I got the price down to $2736.

But now for the new pair I've just found in Denmark, and quite a bit closer too, that owner ask for $1824.

He also wrote that they are good looking with few scars marks and scratches. The 14" woofers have been fitted with new foam rings. And the crossover network is modified with new spools/coils without any iron bar in the middle, or what you call it. Do you know what I mean?

So is that a got thing or a bad thing, that modification on the crossover?

I also wonder if what difference there is between the Classic, LE, and the Jubilee? Which is the best, if any of them are, and why?

I ask about the Jubilee because I found a pair of those for sale in Munich, Germany, for $1970. It's some 1100 miles one way, compared to the pair that is closest with some 395 miles one way. But a trip down to Germany could also be as a holiday trip too.

Many questions I know. But I need to know as much as possible before, and if, I'm gonna buy such expensive used speakers.

Dr Tinnitus

[rs237]

you saw these

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=012&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=220107888801&rd=1&rd=1

is perhaps not as far as Munich. But attention the price is füe one !!! Speaker.

regards
juergen

[Hofmannhp]

you saw these
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=012&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=220107888801&rd=1&rd=1
is perhaps not as far as Munich. But attention the price is füe one !!! Speaker.
regards
juergen

Hi Jürgen,

the description says two , the quantity available says 2 (what means normaly two pairs in refereence to the description) Maybe the seller has made a wrong entry in the ebay sellers page.

BTW: the starting price says it's a pair

HP

[Dr Tinnitus]

you saw these

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=012&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=220107888801&rd=1&rd=1

is perhaps not as far as Munich. But attention the price is füe one !!! Speaker.

regards
juergen

Hi.

Yes I think I missed those ones.

But where does it say that the price is for just one speaker, and that a pair will cost twice as much? My german isn't the best....:( Ang they are located in Gaggenau Germany, which is some 45 miles west from Stuttgart, so it's almost the same as Munich for me.

And I have one more problem, I have never ever used eBay, so I really don't understand how it work either.

Can I get in contact with the seller in any way, if I want to have a more direct dialog with him? Do I have to place bid on the subject without ever been able to write/speak with the owner directly? If so it feels like gambling to me!?


Dr Tinnitus

[Mr. Widget]

The 14" woofers have been fitted with new foam rings.Welcome to the forum!

Replacing the foam rings must be done correctly and can possibly return the speakers to factory specs but it is no guarantee. There are several possible problems with foam surround replacement... you can read up on it if you like by doing some searches. I'd suggest you have him send you some detail photos of the woofers... if you share them with us, it is possible for us to rule out some potential problems. One potential problem that a photo will not show is a tired spider. If the spider (the other suspension component used in most woofers) has worn out then the only realistic option is a full recone... this is expensive and getting recone kits for LE14s has been difficult lately.


And the crossover network is modified with new spools/coils without any iron bar in the middle, or what you call it.In general air core inductors are superior to ferrite core inductors and that is why someone decided to "improve" these speakers. Unfortunately changing a coil from one type to another can change the speaker's voicing since even though the inductance values may be identical their DCR values will likely be different. It is possible that this modification didn't negatively affect the sound, but you will never know until you compare them with stock networks.

I am not a 250Ti expert but we do have one here... read Giskard's posts about 250Tis, biased networks and charge coupled networks... biased or charge coupled networks are now featured in all of JBL's top consumer designs as well as the 250Ti LE version I believe. This type of network is generally considered superior to the original networks and should be considered.

Good luck on your quest.

Widget

[Dr Tinnitus]

Welcome to the forum!

Replacing the foam rings must be done correctly and can possibly return the speakers to factory specs but it is no guarantee. There are several possible problems with foam surround replacement... you can read up on it if you like by doing some searches. I'd suggest you have him send you some detail photos of the woofers... if you share them with us, it is possible for us to rule out some potential problems. One potential problem that a photo will not show is a tired spider. If the spider (the other suspension component used in most woofers) has worn out then the only realistic option is a full recone... this is expensive and getting recone kits for LE14s has been difficult lately.

In general air core inductors are superior to ferrite core inductors and that is why someone decided to "improve" these speakers. Unfortunately changing a coil from one type to another can change the speaker's voicing since even though the inductance values may be identical their DCR values will likely be different. It is possible that this modification didn't negatively affect the sound, but you will never know until you compare them with stock networks.

I am not a 250Ti expert but we do have one here... read Giskard's posts about 250Tis, biased networks and charge coupled networks... biased or charge coupled networks are now featured in all of JBL's top consumer designs as well as the 250Ti LE version I believe. This type of network is generally considered superior to the original networks and should be considered.

Good luck on your quest.

Widget

Hi, and thank you for the info.


Yes I know what the spider in a speaker is.

One reason for all my questions is that I well aware of that things isn't always so easy to modify to the better, without any drawbacks lurking in the dark...

I really would like to have a pair of these fine speakers, but is very concerned about the risk of buying such old used speakers. I don't want to end up standing there with two strange bird houses for birds in four sizes, because the foamrings are changed in a bad way, the spiders cracked and in a geriatric shape, and no recone kits to get. Just a big hole in my wallet to put my dreams in....

So, would I always expect any of those problems with these 250Ti speakers? Or is there just a small risk with bad ones, and the good ones can still live for many years and play as new many years to come? But then when even the good ones start to have problems in the future, there will be even fewer repair kits for then, if any? What to do then? Just tip the speaker boxes over rip the drivers out and plant flowers in the holes? That not a future to dream about...

Is there no chance in that case to use an other driver for the 14"? Like any of the newer still produced 15" drivers from JBL if they have specifications not so far from the original 14" drivers? Ofcourse the holes fpr then in the speaker need to be machined to fit, and the crossover network to be adjust/modified in that case.


Dr Tinnitus

[rs237]

Hi.

Yes I think I missed those ones.

But where does it say that the price is for just one speaker, and that a pair will cost twice as much? My german isn't the best....:( Ang they are located in Gaggenau Germany, which is some 45 miles west from Stuttgart, so it's almost the same as Munich for me.

And I have one more problem, I have never ever used eBay, so I really don't understand how it work either.

Can I get in contact with the seller in any way, if I want to have a more direct dialog with him? Do I have to place bid on the subject without ever been able to write/speak with the owner directly? If so it feels like gambling to me!?


Dr Tinnitus


It offers 2 loudspeakers at No10231L and No10301R. With the requirement you must enter the desired quantity. If you both (thus 1 pair) to have would like are the price 2 times 949 EUR. I find that somewhat dubious. You can send over the Link “Frage an den Verkäufer” a mail to the salesman.
Sorry for my bad english.

regards
juergen

[Guido]

Welcome to the forum Doc,

It isn't possible to substitude the LE14H-1 Woofer with a 15 incher. It isn't necessary either as it is one of the best JBL Woofers and it is still available (at least in Europe).
Also available are recone kits and foam rings. As you are a newbie I suggest to let the work be done by a professional. If you can't find one nearby your home, PM me.

Be aware that JBL spare parts are bloody expensive. As professional work also isn't cheap you can imagine that no bargain is possible here.

I would also recommend the original 250ti BUT the unavailability of the 044ti driver and diaphragm kit is serious. So look for a 250ti classic or limited edition. They have the 035TiA which is also far from bad.

Be careful with the cheap ebay offers. You can get 250ti's for as less than 1200 Euro. BUT only 2 woofer recones can set you back by another 600 Euros at least :(

[Titanium Dome]

Is there no chance in that case to use an other driver for the 14"? Like any of the newer still produced 15" drivers from JBL if they have specifications not so far from the original 14" drivers? Ofcourse the holes fpr then in the speaker need to be machined to fit, and the crossover network to be adjust/modified in that case.


Dr Tinnitus

You can use the current model LE14H-3 as a drop in replacement.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=11317

It's discussed in these threads, among others:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=15348&page=2&highlight=le14h-3

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=15864&highlight=le14h-3

[sourceoneaudio]

Welcome to the forum Dr. If you need a direction on re-cone kits for your LE14H-1's if the speakers you pick require the the work, I can point you in the direction for new ones. N.O.S. PM me, and I'll get the info to you when you find out your needs. I also have found some re-cone kits for the 104H midrange driver.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=16292


Good Luck,
Jeff
J/S-S1A :D

[Dr Tinnitus]

I really have to thank you all guys, for te response on my tread and subject.

I would really appreciate all the help I can get, and need, in this matter, not to buy the wrong thing and so. And as I'm a newbie I might not no what help I need, so I really need you all as a unified mentor for me :)

I have spend some time seraching the forum for more info on which is the best choice of all the diffrent 250 models, and why the are so. Ofcourse I want the best sounding ones to, but also the safest one for the future thinking of spare parts and so.

There are original 250L, 250 BQ what ever that is?, Classics, Limited Edition, and Jubilee, as far as I know.

But which is best, and why, if there is any easy answer to that?

Some say that the original is the best, and all other is downgrades, the newer the more downgraded, meang that Jubilee is close to Wallmart level...? :D Other people say the opposite thing, that Jubilee is the most developed and advanced one...

Can you understand that I'm getting my scalp under my nails......:banghead::D:D:D

So this swedish guy needs help, as you can see.


Dr Tinnitus

[Andyoz]

In your original post, you mentioned a pair of 250Ti "classics" that are near you. By that, do you mean the original wood ones (teak finish)?

I think they would be a good place to start. Can the seller send you some photos. If so, post them here and we'll go to town on them.:)

[Dr Tinnitus]

In your original post, you mentioned a pair of 250Ti "classics" that are near you. By that, do you mean the original wood ones (teak finish)?

I think they would be a good place to start. Can the seller send you some photos. If so, post them here and we'll go to town on them.:)




Yes, it must have been the original wood ones. Because it said in the add "from -87.." or so. I've tride to find the that add again, but it seems to have vanished.... :( It was just some 45 minutes drive from my home. Well I put in my own add in that place to make people aware of that I'm looking for such speakers. We'll see what that gives.

Dr Tinnitus

[Andyoz]

If they are from 1987, they would be the teak finish 250Ti's.

I guess someone must have snapped them up. What price were they asking for them?

[Dr Tinnitus]

Hello guys.

Now I've got some pics on the first set of 250 Ti I'm interrested of. I would be happy if you experts would like to have a look at them, and give me comments and advices on them.

I've the original pics and some pics where I've marked some areas in which I want more explanations on what can be seen in those areas from the owner. If it is just reflections or real marks or damage, and how serious they are.


You can find all the pics here.

http://saab.ath.cx/community/tony418/JBL/L250Ti%20A/


Dr Tinnitus

[250Ti only]

You can't go wrong with the original. I bought mine in 1985, they have been played virtually 8 hours a day since then with plenty of parties.
There are parts available in USA at what I consider bargain prices for the quality of the drivers. Everyone knows the original tweeter is almost indestructible with an excellent sound. Great crossover-best to leave stock or modify only with minimal additions, per this forum. Mine simply have additional small value bypass capacitors and are very smooth & dynamic. Original Refoam kits for the woofer are still available and that's the only part that wears out. They are a great investment. If you buy & want some details just mail me. :) Pete

[Andyoz]

I've the original pics and some pics where I've marked some areas in which I want more explanations on what can be seen in those areas from the owner. If it is just reflections or real marks or damage, and how serious they are.

I really can't see anything in those photos to suggest they actually are marks. Has the seller said there are marks there? All I keep seeing in the photos is Paul McCartney's reflection :):):)

How much does he want for them as they appear pristine to me?

[sourceoneaudio]

I would say they look very nice. As far as the marks go it is a lacquer finish and can be treated like a car finish to where you can/could rub out and polish any issues as long as they were in the surface and not deep below the finish. It is hard to tell from the pics. Those are the 250TI LE BQ models. From what I could tell from the pics the foam on the woofers still l@@ks good but only your going to be able to tell that up close, but as we stated here that is a small issue if they need a re-foam. Plenty of sources for that.
I would say go for it, and enjoy the music. :applaud: Grills?

Jeff
J/S-S1A

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/home-speakers/1990-250ti.htm

[Dr Tinnitus]

I really can't see anything in those photos to suggest they actually are marks. Has the seller said there are marks there? All I keep seeing in the photos is Paul McCartney's reflection :):):)

How much does he want for them as they appear pristine to me?




Have you looked at the pics where I have marked some areas in red? In these areas I can see light grey lines towards the top of the speaker. I'll guess these are same light scrape marks or similar. Also on the top edge there is one more sever damage in that white "speck" which seems to be at hit mark that have chipped off the paint on the cabinet edge down to the primer or so.


Dr Tinnitus

[Dr Tinnitus]

I would say they look very nice. As far as the marks go it is a lacquer finish and can be treated like a car finish to where you can/could rub out and polish any issues as long as they were in the surface and not deep below the finish. It is hard to tell from the pics. Those are the 250TI LE BQ models. From what I could tell from the pics the foam on the woofers still l@@ks good but only your going to be able to tell that up close, but as we stated here that is a small issue if they need a re-foam. Plenty of sources for that.
I would say go for it, and enjoy the music. :applaud: Grills?

Jeff
J/S-S1A

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/home-speakers/1990-250ti.htm


How do you se that it is the 250Ti LE BQ? And what does BQ stands for and what is different whit that compared to the other 250 versions?? Is it good or bad if it's a BQ?

I haven't asked about the grills yet, so thank's for reminding me about them.


Dr Tinnitus

[Dr Tinnitus]

I've asked this before, but got no real answer, so I'll aske once more.

What version of the 250 Ti is the best, and why? Some say the Jubilee is the best, some say it's the one that is cheapset build and that all versions after the original one is all down grades. So, what is true and who shall I believe?

Dr Tinnitus

[Guido]

How do you se that it is the 250Ti LE BQ? And what does BQ stands for and what is different whit that compared to the other 250 versions?? Is it good or bad if it's a BQ?

This was all discussed before.

The 250ti Limited Edition (BQ) is the piano black "economy" version of the 250Ti.
"Economy" as the network is far less advanced and the 044Ti is substituted by the 035TiA.

In Europe we had in addition the 250Ti classic edition. It had basically the BQ network but believe it or not, they saved the 0.005uF bypass caps. What a cost saving!!:banghead: The classic edition had a golden 035TiA Tweeter (035TiA-2).

Then there was the Jubilee with charge coupled crossovers. A good idea BUT they used only electrolytic caps in it. Again cost issues.

[Dr Tinnitus]

This was all discussed before.

The 250ti Limited Edition (BQ) is the piano black "economy" version of the 250Ti.
"Economy" as the network is far less advanced and the 044Ti is substituted by the 035TiA.

In Europe we had in addition the 250Ti classic edition. It had basically the BQ network but believe it or not, they saved the 0.005uF bypass caps. What a cost saving!!:banghead: The classic edition had a golden 035TiA Tweeter (035TiA-2).

Then there was the Jubilee with charge coupled crossovers. A good idea BUT they used only electrolytic caps in it. Again cost issues.

Thank's Guido.


So, then we can say that the original L250 Ti is the most complicated and costly to build? But then we have te sound it self. Can we also say that the original still is the one with the best performance and sound?? Or do some ov the development towards less costly solutions also gave the speaker better performance and sound? Or did it just bring drawbacks in that field?

If the original L250 Ti still is the best, and there's still spareparts for it in case needed, that would suit me well, because even if i like the black LE's and Jubilee's I think the original one in wood is the prettiest one.

So I hope the guy who had an add on a pair of these one's for sale close to my home, will see my add for buying a pair of 250 and take contact with me. If they are in good condition that will save me both money and problem with long transports.


Dr Tinnitus

[Andyoz]

I think you should hold out for the originals. That's what I own and I think some of the later versions lost a bit of the "aura". They just look so good in the wood veneer.

As you live in Europe, I would recommend you take your time and get a very good example. From what I have seen, they come up more often in Europe than anywhere in the world. Also, look out for a second "rough" pair that you can hide away and salvage for parts in the future. The main long term issues will be the LE14H-1 woofers and 044Ti tweeters.

I would expect to pay €1,500 for an excellent example and €700-800 for a rough set that may have scratched up cabinets and bad foam on woofers but all other component should be useable.

[Andyoz]

Here's an example of a nice pair of 250Ti's that sold in germany a few months ago for €760.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=14521

The woofers needed some work and one mid needed a recone. If you spent €300-400 on fixing them up, you could have a great set there. If they were local to me, I would have bought them and put them in the attic for spares.

[Dr Tinnitus]

These TL260 that you can get brand new today, how do they stand up in a comparision with the original 250 in it's different versions? They look almost the same, and things tends to be more developed with time.

So are these modern copies of the real Ikon any good, can they compete with the Ikon in any way?

Then we have the Ti 5000 with similar design, what is that, and what rank in the JBL fame and glory does it have?

One more, the Ti10K, does it keep up with the heritage?


Dr Tinnitus

[sourceoneaudio]

Thank's Guido.


So, then we can say that the original L250 Ti is the most complicated and costly to build? But then we have te sound it self. Can we also say that the original still is the one with the best performance and sound?? Or do some ov the development towards less costly solutions also gave the speaker better performance and sound? Or did it just bring drawbacks in that field?

If the original L250 Ti still is the best, and there's still spareparts for it in case needed, that would suit me well, because even if i like the black LE's and Jubilee's I think the original one in wood is the prettiest one.

So I hope the guy who had an add on a pair of these one's for sale close to my home, will see my add for buying a pair of 250 and take contact with me. If they are in good condition that will save me both money and problem with long transports.


Dr Tinnitus

Dr. T,
Let me also help with a couple model numbers. There is no L in L250TI, just 250TI.
You can look here.

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/home-speakers/1984-ti.htm

Second the L version was the first version (L250) no TI. This array used a different tweeter (Aluminum), and different midrange (Paper) and also a different x-over. (N250)

Once the 250TI was developed they made an upgrade kit for the L250, which consisted of the 044TI tweeter, 104H Poly midrange, and upgraded x-over, N250TI. At the time of production this kit was ava. for $500.00 I believe, don't quote me on that, might have been more. ?
So in my opinion the best 250 was, and is the 250TI manufactured from 1984/85 to 1991. The first production run of the array your looking at was 1992.
250TiBQ LE.

Hope this helps in your search.

Jeff
J/S-S1A :D

[Andyoz]

...and as you may have gathered from reading the various threads on this forum, the original 250Ti's are inevitably the hardest of that line to keep going. Some people find it fun to search out the spare parts and some don't.

If you fall into the latter category, you may be better with one of the later models (I don't know much about them TBH).

If you fall into the first category, you may have to catch the ferry over to Germany to get the best used gear. Although Sweden does seem to get it's fair share of nice bits as well.

[kingjames]

The pair I purchased with the low serial numbers makes me believe they were manufacutured in 1984 or 1985. They are teak finish and in near perfect condition. I bought them used from Canada but they were taken very good care of.

I've had no problems with them yet. I am not sure if these have been refoamed or not but at the moment they seem fine.

Look beautiful when waxed and the sound is stunning.Stick with the old ones you can't go wrong with the sound. AS for parts just keep an eye out for them as they do come up once in a while.

[Dr Tinnitus]

More questions from the swede....:D

The drivers in the 250 are they with cast aluminium frames, or ordinary pressed sheet metal? Any diffrerent between the verisons?


Dr Tinnitus

[jerv]

There certainly is a wealth of information to be found on this forum concerning the 250ti - but the number of types and versions (250ti, 250ti BQ, 250ti Limited Edition, 250ti Jubilee, etc, etc) is quite bewildering.

Does anyone have (or can point to) a "250ti matrix", that describes the various changes, charachteristics and production years for all 250ti versions?

I plan to build a 250ti DIY. I have secured all the drivers, and gotten the LE14's reconed. Everything is ready. But which "version" to build?

[sourceoneaudio]

There certainly is a wealth of information to be found on this forum concerning the 250ti - but the number of types and versions (250ti, 250ti BQ, 250ti Limited Edition, 250ti Jubilee, etc, etc) is quite bewildering.

Does anyone have (or can point to) a "250ti matrix", that describes the various changes, charachteristics and production years for all 250ti versions?

I plan to build a 250ti DIY. I have secured all the drivers, and gotten the LE14's reconed. Everything is ready. But which "version" to build?


jerv,
Well let me start off by saying by already having all the drivers in your possession you have taken care of the hardest part. There really is no correct version to build because all the 250TI's use the same drivers except for the 250TiBQ, uses a different tweeter, and different network which is discussed earlier. Also the Jubilee uses a different network. So the only thing you are faced with if you don't have them is the network. Some of the fellow members have used custom built charged coupled networks, and they can assist on design and parameters. I think Opimax had a member build him a set. I believe he would be more than happy to point you to who helped him. So get your cabinets done in any flavor you decide, get the networks built or try to seek a pair of N250TI networks and your done.

Good luck with the build, I hope this information helps.

P.S. Make sure you get the angle of the cabinet correct on the front panel for this angle has to do with Time Alignment of the drivers. Very important.

Jeff
J/S-S1A :D

[Dr Tinnitus]

all the 250TI's use the same drivers except for the 250TiBQ, uses a different tweeter, and different network which is discussed earlier. Also the Jubilee uses a different network.
Jeff
J/S-S1A :D


Now I don't get it really....


The speakers that I gave you some photos of, you (?) said it was the 250Ti BQ. But on the pictures it looks like the same Titanium tweeter as on the other Ti exept the Jubilee which have a more flat mouinted golden shiny tweeter.

So have I missunderstand something, or isn't it the Jubilee which have an other tweeter, and ofcourse the original L250 has it own tweeter too.

But are there also another tweeter in the black Limited Edition compared to the original 250 Ti? If so, then the Jubilee has yet another tweeter than that?


Dr Tinnitus

[jerv]

jerv,
Well let me start off by saying by already having all the drivers in your possession you have taken care of the hardest part. There really is no correct version to build because all the 250TI's use the same drivers except for the 250TiBQ, uses a different tweeter, and different network which is discussed earlier. Also the Jubilee uses a different network.

Thanks, Jeff.
I was aware that the BQ uses the 035ti, and most other types use the 044ti. (I have the 044ti). I also plan to build charge-coupled networks. I'll keep the front panel angle in mind when building.

What confuses me, I guess, is the Limited Edition and the Jubilee versions - compared with the "original". I wonder what the differences really are.

Espen

[opimax]

I was told to buy the original 250TI, charge couple the XO, have the 044 tweeter coated w/Aquaplas, sit back and listen!

I am almost sure Guido here (lives in Germany)who does this stuff for a living would build you a lovely set of CC XO , he does good work!

The original 250ti comes in wood, has bus bars on the back for adjustments, specifically has the 044ti tweeter and the 104h poly cone (plastic rather than reated paper) midrange.

I have gotten a little frustrated non supported products because of availabilty of parts. Even if you purchase NOS the foam has deteriated over the years. This goes w/anything though that is past its intended life and in many ways makes it more a labor of love...and when it right it is right!!

There is a thread on Eargle where TI dome who has may jbl speakers rated 10 of his that he owns. The winner was the PT series (I think) the l250s were 4th (not ti but still). they are available and so are parts I believe. having been a while and learning I am not sure I would go the 250 route again...not sure I wouldn't either, never having heard the pt series

This last paragragh may need some corrections....

Mark

At the bottom of the page there are some suggested threads to read, many are related to your questions

[sourceoneaudio]

Now I don't get it really....


The speakers that I gave you some photos of, you (?) said it was the 250Ti BQ. But on the pictures it looks like the same Titanium tweeter as on the other Ti except the Jubilee which have a more flat mounted golden shiny tweeter.

So have I misunderstand something, or isn't it the Jubilee which have an other tweeter, and of course the original L250 has it own tweeter too.

But are there also another tweeter in the black Limited Edition compared to the original 250 Ti? If so, then the Jubilee has yet another tweeter than that?


Dr Tinnitus


This was all discussed before.

The 250ti Limited Edition (BQ) is the piano black "economy" version of the 250Ti.
"Economy" as the network is far less advanced and the 044Ti is substituted by the 035TiA.

In Europe we had in addition the 250Ti classic edition. It had basically the BQ network but believe it or not, they saved the 0.005uF bypass caps. What a cost saving!!:banghead: The classic edition had a golden 035TiA Tweeter (035TiA-2).

Then there was the Jubilee with charge coupled crossovers. A good idea BUT they used only electrolytic caps in it. Again cost issues.

http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/specs/home-speakers/1990-250ti/page4.jpg

http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/specs/home-speakers/1984-ti/page09.jpg

Tweeters are listed above.
The 250TI used the 044TI
The 250TiBQ LE used the 035TiA

If you read the links, the material is the same used in the tweeter, but the mounting configuration is different. The 035Tia's mount from the front, and the 044TI's mount from the rear. So they are not interchangeable.

The 044TI tweeter was used from 1984/85 until 1991.

It also looks to me the Midrange driver in the 250TiBQ LE the voice coil is 3mm larger in dia. according to the factory brochure.

Jeff
J/S-S1A :D

[jerv]

I was told to buy the original 250TI, charge couple the XO, have the 044 tweeter coated w/Aquaplas, sit back and listen!

I am almost sure Guido here (lives in Germany)who does this stuff for a living would build you a lovely set of CC XO , he does good work!

The original 250ti comes in wood, has bus bars on the back for adjustments, specifically has the 044ti tweeter and the 104h poly cone (plastic rather than reated paper) midrange.

...
There is a thread on Eargle where TI dome who has may jbl speakers rated 10 of his that he owns. The winner was the PT series (I think) the l250s were 4th (not ti but still). they are available and so are parts I believe. having been a while and learning I am not sure I would go the 250 route again...not sure I wouldn't either, never having heard the pt series

...

Well, after having built the 4425 (and played with the crossover for a LOOONG time, see thread http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=12431) and then a pair of (big PA) speakers with the 2225, the 2118 and the 2425/2370, I wanted to build the 250ti - mostly because so many on this forum speaks so favourably about it.

I have the LE14H-1, the 108H, the 104H poly and the 044ti. I also have the 035ti and the 104H-2 paper. (Here in Norway, none of these were easy to find). I plan to build the crossover networks myself. Before I start my table saw an soldering iron, I thought it would be good to understand the differences between the many 250ti models.

Maybe I stick my head a bit too far out on this: but which - in the forum's opinion - is the "best" or the most "classical" 250ti?

Espen

[sourceoneaudio]

Maybe I stick my head a bit too far out on this: but which - in the forum's opinion - is the "best" or the most "classical" 250ti?

Espen

My opinion:

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/home-speakers/1984-ti.htm

1984/85 to 1991 :bouncy: :applaud: :bouncy:

Jeff
J/S-S1A :D

[Dr Tinnitus]

Hello again, the crazy swede is back..... :D

I've found a pair of L250 with refoamed drivers, don't know if that's for just the woofers or all the drivers. The price the salesman is asking for is recalculated to US curren, $1437. These ones loooks really nice in the pics

http://www.dba.dk/asp/soegning/detail.asp?annonceid=49743717

But is the L250 something to put your money in? Is it possible to upgrade it to a Ti in a resonable way in price and so? Or is it just the original 250Ti to aim for?

I also have sent an email to the guy in Denmark who have a pair of 250Ti black for sale asking $1797 for them. These is the one with modified XO with no cores that I mentioned earlier.

http://www.dba.dk/asp/soegning/detail.asp?annonceid=49539689


Dr Tinnitus

[sourceoneaudio]

PM sent.

Jeff
J/S-S1A :D

[Andyoz]

Personnally, I wouldn't bother with the L250 if there are 250Ti's on offer as well.

Upgrading L250's to 250Ti spec is possible in theory but damn expensive nowdays care of the 044Ti tweeter prices going thru the roof.

[sourceoneaudio]

Personnally, I wouldn't bother with the L250 if there are 250Ti's on offer as well.

Upgrading L250's to 250Ti spec is possible in theory but damn expensive nowdays care of the 044Ti tweeter prices going thru the roof.


Yup!

Jeff
J/S-S1A :D

[Dr Tinnitus]

Yes, that was the answer I was expecting, but I just wanted it confirmd.

But now the other speaker isn't of the most desired version, but of the "second best" Black Limited Edition.

I just have to see what might pops up, and what the salesman of the black ones have to say if he responds to my email.


Dr Tinnitus

[Andyoz]

Those L250's have been on that site for a few months now. They are too expensive, he may get $1,000 if he's lucky.

You will need some patience re. the 250Ti's. Some guys on this site have waited Years. You won't have to wait that long though as something will turn up on either eBay or that Danish site. Another one to keep an eye on is this (nothing there at the moment though):

http://www.hifi4all.dk/ksb/index.asp?offset=0

[sourceoneaudio]

Yes, Andy is right. Be patient. Also I would wait for woodgrain ones to pop up. Teak early versions are the most attractive I think.
These are Teak.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=15864

And are killer looking. Fine example!


Jeff
J/S-S1A

[Dr Tinnitus]

I think the black ones are very beautiful too, but the wood ones are one step up for me. Maybe for the protrution for the tweeter that looks so nice on the wood speakers. On the black one it's just a plastic cover or something.

One other thing that I noticed is that the originals versions, and the LE has a "man hole" on the back side for opening up the cabinet. On the Jubilee it seems to have been rationalised so it's gone.

My reflections on that is that I don't really know what it's for, and one could expect that it would have been a stronger more rigid cabinet without it. So even if it's a sing of cost cutting on the Jubilee without the "man hole", it also might have some advantages too.

On the first versions you can adjust the speaker to the room with the metal bars on the back side of the speakers, in quite a lot of combinations. On the LE it's just two swithes (two ways?) left, and on the Jubilee nothing left so you can't adjust to the room?


Dr Tinnitus

[JBLforlife]

Those are my 250 Ti's shown in the link above. Thanks for the comps. I have the Bus Bar Attenuators on the rear that let you adjust the Mid frequency, High Frequency and Ultra-High frequencies. They also have the opening on the rear of the speaker behind the LF driver. I always thought that it was a vent for the LF driver but not sure. Anyway I do love these TI's and that is quite evident by the fact that I bought them new in 1987 and still own and enjoy them greatly today in 2007. I do plan on listening to them in 2027 too.:bouncy:

Thanks,

JBLforlife

[Dr Tinnitus]

Those are my 250 Ti's shown in the link above. Thanks for the comps. I have the Bus Bar Attenuators on the rear that let you adjust the Mid frequency, High Frequency and Ultra-High frequencies. They also have the opening on the rear of the speaker behind the LF driver. I always thought that it was a vent for the LF driver but not sure. Anyway I do love these TI's and that is quite evident by the fact that I bought them new in 1987 and still own and enjoy them greatly today in 2007. I do plan on listening to them in 2027 too.:bouncy:

Thanks,

JBLforlife




Maybe I was a bit unclear in my writing about the "hole"

I wasn't thinking of the round hole of about 4" over the connection panel on the backside, but about the big "hatch" that's screwed on place on the backside. Yhat hatch seems to be gone on the Jubilee on the pictures I've seen.

And of course the round hole is a port for venting the LF driver, because the Ti is not a speaker with closed enclosure of the LF driver.


Dr Tinnitus

[rs237]

you already saw this 250Ti on ebay Germany. The article indication is wrongly 205Ti. I think its a 250TiBQ LE .

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250114808515&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:de

regards
juergen

[Dr Tinnitus]

you already saw this 250Ti on ebay Germany. The article indication is wrongly 205Ti. I think its a 250TiBQ LE .

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250114808515&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:de

regards
juergen



Yes, I think I've seen these ones before!? Wasn't these the one where the price was for just one speaker?

And it's the Jubilee version, the last one of the versions. And according to the pro's here in the forum, the sheapest and most downgraded version.

Tempting price if it's for a pair, but maybe I wait for the genuine wooden ones with the 044 tweeter from 87-91 (?)


Dr Tinnitus

[Dr Tinnitus]

I send this email to the guy who have the last 250Ti LE I found for sale i Denmark.


> Hello.
>
> I'll write in english because my danish isn't so good :-)
>
>
> I'm a guy from sweden who have hade these JBL 250Ti as my favorite for
> many yeras now, but never hade the money to buy them when they was
> brand new in the 80-90thies.
>
> But now the can be found for prices one can afford. I just saw your
> speakers in your add, and it got me very interrested. So can you tell
> me more about your speakers, how lobg you have had then, the status of
> them, any damages or anything? If you could send more pictures from all
> angels and close ups to se details, I would appreciate that.
>
> I'm looking for a pair of these speakers in very good condition, and
> if I found a pair and the price is ok for both teh salesman and me I
> will just travel down and do a last check and if thats ok I'll buy
> them.
>
> So, what can you tell me about your 250 Ti??
>
>
>
> Best Regards
>
> Tony


And got this answer today



Hi Tony

First I will correct you it is 250TI LE these models are a little better.

I bought these speakers about 10 years ago from a guy who was divorced and
therefore did not have the space for them (actually I think he needed the
money too)
I have been very pleased with them.
Only they are a little too big for my wife so now I have found a pair of
audiovector 6, which is a magnificant speaker too.
Also in black piano but smaller and with a little les bass.
But thats OK.

What can I tell. I have modified the crossower with another wiring for the
bass which is better for the amplifier and therefore better for the sound
too.
The bass speakers was reeconed 3 yers ago and looks like new.
The cabinet is used and there ar some small scratces but nothing realy bad.

A could take some pictures and mail to you but I would like to know how big
files your mailsystem can take.
The pictures on the net have to be small and therefore they ar not clear.

One more thing, the price is DKK 10.000,00 and I make no compromises in that
case.
I am often i Copenhagen and can delivere in that area if you find them
attractive after you have seen and heard them.

Let me hear from you.

Best Regards

Jørn


I sounds quite okay in my oppinion?

I will have him to send me some photos of the speakers, and ask where they have been reconed, by who or what company, and if the spiders have been changed to.

What's the verdict from the pro's on the forum about these speakers?

For me they are $900 cheaper than the first pair of 250TI LE (the one I gave you pics of earlyer) and still sounds to be in better shape and have reconed woofers. And it's not som far away either compared to the other ones.


Dr Tinnitus

[Andyoz]

I would get more info re. the recones. Who did it and does he have receipts, etc.

p.s. wonder if owning the speakers had something to do with the original owners divorce..beware..:D

[JBLforlife]

Maybe I was a bit unclear in my writing about the "hole"

I wasn't thinking of the round hole of about 4" over the connection panel on the backside, but about the big "hatch" that's screwed on place on the backside. Yhat hatch seems to be gone on the Jubilee on the pictures I've seen.

And of course the round hole is a port for venting the LF driver, because the Ti is not a speaker with closed enclosure of the LF driver.


Dr Tinnitus


Now I see what your talking about. That would be the access panel to get to the tweeters that can only be removed from the rear. Not that familiar with the Jubilee speakers but they probably have access to the tweeters from the front and do not need the rear access panel. Someone please correct me on this if I am wrong. My panels have never been off.

Thanks.

JBLforlife.

[sourceoneaudio]

If I'm not mistaken the whole rear panel is removable on the 250TI. ?
Eight screws total on the large panel.

The tweeter also has a rear access panel, the reason being the tweeter is rear loaded. Like I stated before, 044TI's are rear loaded in the 250TI's.
035TiA's front loaded on the 250TiBQ-LE.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=168433&postcount=38

Jeff
J/S-S1A :D

[Dr Tinnitus]

I would get more info re. the recones. Who did it and does he have receipts, etc.

p.s. wonder if owning the speakers had something to do with the original owners divorce..beware..:D


I've just sended a email with those questions and a more, and he will send pictures soon.



Dr Tinnitus

[rs237]

Yes, I think I've seen these ones before!? Wasn't these the one where the price was for just one speaker?

And it's the Jubilee version, the last one of the versions. And according to the pro's here in the forum, the sheapest and most downgraded version.

Tempting price if it's for a pair, but maybe I wait for the genuine wooden ones with the 044 tweeter from 87-91 (?)


Dr Tinnitus


no this price is for a pair

regards
juergen

[sourceoneaudio]

Yes, I think I've seen these ones before!? Wasn't these the one where the price was for just one speaker?

And it's the Jubilee version, the last one of the versions. And according to the pro's here in the forum, the sheapest and most downgraded version.

Tempting price if it's for a pair, but maybe I wait for the genuine wooden ones with the 044 tweeter from 87-91 (?)


Dr Tinnitus


044TI - 1984/85 to 1991

Jeff
J/S-S1A

[opimax]

What modifications to the the overs? Can they be put back to original? even if it sounds better now?

It is nice that he will deliver especially something so difficult to ship but sometimes that is a cover up so you don't know where he came form and go back...to show the police where you bought the stolen merchandise or have some where to go back to when he knew he sold you junk...hopefully not but best to be aware.

In the end the model that sounds the best to you is the right speaker. you may not like the 44 tweeter sound compared the 35. have heard the different versions? more important than buying quickly, they will still be out there in a few weeks or months

Mark

[Andyoz]

I've just sended a email with those questions and a more, and he will send pictures soon.

Dr Tinnitus

I hope you didn't ask him about the divorce!!! :D:D

[Dr Tinnitus]

What modifications to the the overs? Can they be put back to original? even if it sounds better now?

It is nice that he will deliver especially something so difficult to ship but sometimes that is a cover up so you don't know where he came form and go back...to show the police where you bought the stolen merchandise or have some where to go back to when he knew he sold you junk...hopefully not but best to be aware.

In the end the model that sounds the best to you is the right speaker. you may not like the 44 tweeter sound compared the 35. have heard the different versions? more important than buying quickly, they will still be out there in a few weeks or months

Mark


I will ofcourse visit the guys home, and listen to the speakers there and look then up. I'm not easy to fool around, if someone have these intentions.


Dr Tinnitus

[JBLforlife]

If I'm not mistaken the whole rear panel is removable on the 250TI. ?
Eight screws total on the large panel.

The tweeter also has a rear access panel, the reason being the tweeter is rear loaded. Like I stated before, 044TI's are rear loaded in the 250TI's.
035TiA's front loaded on the 250TiBQ-LE.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=168433&postcount=38

Jeff
J/S-S1A :D


Just checked the back of my 250Ti's and there are 2 removable panels. The top panel has 8 screws and is the access panel for the Tweeter. The panel below covers the entire lower side of the speaker in back and has 17 screws total to remove this panel. That is alot of screwing.:banghead:

Thanks.

JBLforlife.

[sourceoneaudio]

The screws closest too, and around the binding post hold the x-over in place. Those are not attached to the structure of the cabinet, 8 screws attach the network to the the rear panel, and 9 screws hold the rear panel on the cabinet. The x-over is removable without taking off the rear panel through the woofer cutout.

Jeff
J/S-S1A :D

[Dr Tinnitus]

The screws closest too, and around the binding post hold the x-over in place. Those are not attached to the structure of the cabinet, 8 screws attach the network to the the rear panel, and 9 screws hold the rear panel on the cabinet. The x-over is removable without taking off the rear panel through the woofer cutout.

Jeff
J/S-S1A :D



That design on a speaker feels quite odd for me. Ofcourse they need a way to the inside of the speaker enclosure, but why so big? I would expect such a big panels for opening up the enclosure to also weaken it, at least if the design isn't very strong.

So, how thick is the walls in the different sides of the speaker, and how stiff and thick is the panels?


Dr Tinnitus

[JBLforlife]

The screws closest too, and around the binding post hold the x-over in place. Those are not attached to the structure of the cabinet, 8 screws attach the network to the the rear panel, and 9 screws hold the rear panel on the cabinet. The x-over is removable without taking off the rear panel through the woofer cutout.

Jeff
J/S-S1A :D

Thanks again for the info.

[sourceoneaudio]

That design on a speaker feels quite odd for me. Ofcourse they need a way to the inside of the speaker enclosure, but why so big? I would expect such a big panels for opening up the enclosure to also weaken it, at least if the design isn't very strong.

So, how thick are the walls on the different sides of the speaker, and how stiff and thick are the panels?


Dr Tinnitus


Dr. Tinnitus,
The construction of the cabinet is very strong. The material used is 3/4" MDF or HDF fiber board. Very heavy, and very dense, one 4'x8' weighs roughly 100lbs. The rear panel design follows suite with the big Studio Monitors.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=166872&postcount=30

The link above is of a JBL 4345 that one of the forum members built from scratch, it will give you a basic feel for the the construction design and a look at the mounting lip.

There is a cleat that follows the whole edge inside the cabinet that the panel screws to, It is also sealed with a soft black gasket material.
So using this design gives more strength laterally, and gives one access for service.

Jeff
J/S-S1A :D

[Andyoz]

The cabinet design probably is out of touch with what is done now.

If you find this design strange you may be looking in the wrong place for your new speakers :):). I like the feel of the cabinets as you can tell real people have actually worked on them, instead of just CNC machines! There is some hand finishing on those curved edges, etc.

[sourceoneaudio]

The cabinet design probably is out of touch with what is done now.

If you find this design strange you may be looking in the wrong place for your new speakers :):). I like the feel of the cabinets as you can tell real people have actually worked on them, instead of just CNC machines! There is some hand finishing on those curved edges, etc.


Yes, the 250TI's are better built than most today. Today it is all about speed, and quantity when it comes to most builders not quality!

There are a few companies left who really care about quality. They are upper end companies. JBL has a current lines that follow in that QUALITY line up in a big way.

Array,
http://www.jbl.com/array_series/default.aspx?Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA

Synthesis,
http://www.jblsynthesis.com/products/the_systems.aspx?Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA


Jeff
J/S-S1A :D

[Andyoz]

Weight is also another important parameter. You just don't see 65Kg domestic cabinets that much anymore. They cost a far bit to shift around the world and it's just another parameter that goes into a manufacturer's mounting list of costs.

Better off building 8" 2-way boxes and tuning them so they appear to play well down low. At least in terms of their freq. response, the time response goes a bit heywire but hey, most purchaser's are never told about that little trade-off.

[Dr Tinnitus]

I've been a poor victim of brute torture.......


In my struggle to find a nice pair och 250Ti I put in an add on a swedish internet site for used hifi stuff. Guess what, yesterday I got an email from a guy who had a pair of the first version of wooden Ti. He wrote that I was so glad to se an add from some who want to buy 250Ti so close to him, so he just have to write me an email to tell me that. And at the same time he wrote that he was just going to sell his pair to a friend of him, so unfortunately he could'nt give me any offer them. This guy lives in the neighbour town some 20 drive from me!!!! Did I mention torture........

This evening I probably will wisit him just to look an listen to them, because It's very long since I had a chance to se a pair of Ti's at all. That will be even more torture in a way....


Dr Tinnitus

[Dr Tinnitus]

This evening I've been over and visit the guy with the 250Ti in the town next to my home town, and listen to his speakers.

They was beautifully looking with almost no scars from the years in any way. The only thing was that it looks like there was maybe a hint of signs that a refoam of the 14" woofers is comming up in a few years.

They sounded nice too, and just as I remember from earlier meeting with other 250Ti. The most impressive thing is that they are capable to deliver clear and powerfull low frequenzes even at low listening levels.

I also had a glance of some print outs of data sheets from -84 and JBL on the 250Ti which said that it was fitted with a 033 tweeter, not the 044 that you guys say here in this forum. Can someone sort that out?

Also in the same town is another guy who have a pair of Jubilee so maybe there will be another visit to listen to them so I can compare them to the originals I listen to this evening.


Dr Tinnitus

[Dr Tinnitus]

So, what's happening with my tread? No more answers from you folks...?


Well then, I'll just have to write and answer by myself then :D

I got some answers on my questions from the Danish guy with the 250Ti LE.

My questions


Yes, please send a lot of good pictures from all angels, with some
nice close up's so I can see the fine details. You can send them to my
friends email which has a 1 GB limit.

About the mods of the crossover, why did you do that, and from where
did you get the idea and drawings for that? Did you performed the mods
your self or did someone else fix it? Exactly what is done? And is it
possible to change it back to the original state in the future if
someone wants that?

About the reconing. Was that just for the 14" woofers? Or the 8" above
then too? Where was this recone work done, and/or by who? Was it by a
JBL certified work shop or service center, or craftsman? Was it done
with genuine JBL spare parts? And was the "spider" that align the cone
at the bottom also replaced with a new one at the same time? Do you
have any recipe on this service job on the speaker, or any other
documentation on it?

Do you have the serial numbers for your speakers?

If everything looks ok in the pictures that you will send, and the
answers on my questions are satisfying, I'll rater visit your'e home to
have a close look and good listening and "test drive" of your speakers.
And if I'm satisfied I think I will buy them :-)


According to the experts on this 250Ti versions, the original wooden
250Ti, 84/85-91 is the most advanced and costly to build. The LE is a
bit of a down grade according to them, with a sheaper hig frequency
tweeter (035TiA) than the original 044Ti. And cross overs that's not
som complex and compicated as in the oroginal 250Ti. Personaly I don't
really know what is "best" or "cheaper" or both. I think both are nice
speakers.

I will be away to some car racing (STCC) from Thursday night to Monday
morning, so if there is any problem with the email adress just send me
an sms to +46 706 727224 and I sort it out.


Best regards

And the answer I got

Hi

Now I have the mail and will try to answer your questions.

In the town Århus was a store called Q Sound. http://www.demo4.atznet.dk (http://www.demo4.atznet.dk/)/
Once i visited him he told me that the copper inducter with a ironcore was
wery bad for the sound and he recommended me to change it to a copper foil
inductor instead. :
http://www.intertechnik.de/index.html/JTI2bmF2aWQlM0QxNzY4JTI2bGFuZyUzRGVuJTI2c2lkJTNEbj Q2NGNhYzRkM2U3NTYlMjZiJTNE.html?basis=79&detail=46300&suchwort=

So I did, and he was right, the bass was much deaper and clearly. I kept the
old if he was wrong but would newer change back.
My aplifier is a Accuphase P600 so it is not because of a poor amplifer it
was better.
I made it by my self because these conductors are big and must be mounted in
the bottom of the kabinet, se the picture.
You do not just tranport 2 x 65 kilos of speakers to Q Sound just for that.

The reconing was made by an expert from RCE Electronk, in Ålborg. He used
original JBL spare part but did only change the outher ring and only and the
the 2 biggest bass units not the 8" They are another construction with a
rubber hang up and therefore do not break.
I have no recipi but it was about 3 years ago.

The serial number is: 10476 L and 10550 R



Best Regards

So, what can you get out of this?

Is far as I understand, the 14" speakers are'nt reconed, but refoamed. I'll guess it's just an slight missunderstanding from his side.

It' seems that he still got the right parts so that the XO can be restored to original spec if wanted.

I also saw that a pair of 250Ti Classic popped up in an add here in Sweden, but they where quite expensive but looked very nice.

But still, even though people have tryed to sort this out, I can't understand the different between the "Limited Edition" "Classic" and "Jubilee"!? More than that the "Jubilee" seems to be the latest version, and that they are some 20 Kg a piece lighter than the original 250Ti and LE, which I think supports the talk about the newer versions being downgraded?


Dr Tinnitus

[Dr Tinnitus]

Hello guys.

I have to say that I'm a bit dissapointed. Here I found a nice forum for JBL stuff, and with a lot of experienced people who can answer questions.

And in the beginning it was ok, but then suddenly no one answer on my post any more, even though people wanted me to post pictures etc so they could judge the objects I found, if they was any good or not.

But I'll try once more, to see if someone responds as promised :)

I've got some pics on the last 250Ti LE in Denmark, and to it looks nice, but I have no idea if the XO is the original, or if the round coil in the bottom oft the speaker is original or part of the modification of the XO.
Read my last post to see my other questions on these speakers.

You can find the pictures in this link.

http://saab.ath.cx/community/tony418/JBL/250Ti%20B/


As I told you earlier, I visit a guy in the town next to my home town, to listen to a pair of 250Ti wood, the real stuff according to the experts.

Here you can find some pictures of those speakers.

http://saab.ath.cx/community/tony418/JBL/250Ti%20W/


Now I just hope for some response to my posts, as I was promised before. Or am I left out in the cold now when things starts to get interresting? :)



Dr Tinnitus

[Andyoz]

I think you should just hold out for the original wood versions. You seem to like the look of them more.

We would need to see close-up photo's of the cabinets and drivers (especially woofers) to make a judgment on what they may be worth.

I think you will drive yourself mad looking at all possible versions and you may not even get concensus here as to which sounds the best.

[JohanR]

But still, even though people have tryed to sort this out, I can't understand the different between the "Limited Edition" "Classic" and "Jubilee"!? More than that the "Jubilee" seems to be the latest version, and that they are some 20 Kg a piece lighter than the original 250Ti and LE, which I think supports the talk about the newer versions being downgraded?

According to a guy on a danish forum ( http://www.hifi4all.dk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=660&PN=0&TPN=1 ) who seem to know what he is talking about, 250TI-LE and 250TI-CC where "tuned" in Denmark for what he calls european tastes. That must mean that they where manufactured there, probably for the european market only. American made 250's are in the classic walnut, danish ones in black piano finish. No mention of the Jubilee, though.

Seems there is a lot of permutations on the 250 theme...

Btw, who would want JBL's with "european" sound :(

JohanR

[Dr Tinnitus]

Hello again.

I'm kickstarting this old tread again with some update.

I just some weeks ago finally found the pair of 250Ti I was looking for, and after some emailing to the owner I decided that it will be difficult to find a better set of 250Ti with all the other strange concidents that occured with these 250Ti.

I found them i Germany, and just by luck in the same town as a friend have to have some race parts for his race car delivered to. Well, infact the speakers was even stored in the same building as the race parts was going to. Crazy, just crazy.

So I got a chance to drive down the 1100 km single way with these race parts for my friend in his car with his credit card for fuel. And then the owner of the speaker let me stay for free for 5 days in a nice apartment he use to rent out to people, just a 10 minutes walk fron the center of Hannover Germany

The speakers is the 250Ti Classic and they are in very good condition and looks as brand new almost.

So I'm very happy now, and the speakers performes fantasticly in my livingroom.

I have a question.

Is there any chance to find a Owners Manual for these speakers anywhere? Infact I'm interested in any kind of documentation on these speakers, in any way. Like original printed ones or copy of these, or ift here are anything to find on the web for downloading.


Dr Tinnitus

[hjames]

Hello again.
I have a question.

Is there any chance to find a Owners Manual for these speakers anywhere? Infact I'm interested in any kind of documentation on these speakers, in any way. Like original printed ones or copy of these, or ift here are anything to find on the web for downloading.


Dr Tinnitus

Cool deal - congratulations!

Thanks for the great story ... sounded like fun!

Specs and more -
http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=250TITKL&CheckProduct=Y

Direct link to the 250TI manual is here

http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Ow...250Ti%20om.pdf (http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Owner%27s%20Manual/250Ti%20om.pdf)

[AmericanPie]

This guy sells reproductions of original JBL manuals and sales literature on Ebay:

http://stores.ebay.com/Mikes-Manuals

I just bought an owners manual from him but haven't received it yet; when I do I'll let you know about the quality. His feedback looks good though, and for the price I took a chance.

[varice]

Hello again...

The speakers is the 250Ti Classic and they are in very good condition and looks as brand new almost.

So I'm very happy now, and the speakers performes fantasticly in my livingroom...

;) Wow! Great to read that you finally got them and that you are happy with them.

[Titanium Dome]

Way to persevere. Congratulations!