Looky What I just got - 4341 Monitors

[hjames]

After the last couple ebay ads for the 4341 model, reading through Reissen thread on them and all the related info I could find here, it sounded like the 4340/41 model might actually be a 4 way that I could afford. From my low-buck hacked version we had gotten to like the sound of the drivers I had collected, but it wasn't quite right.

When the last ebay ad ended without a bid, I wrote Dave and made an offer - we went back and forth a few times - Dave's a busy guy - besides being part owner of a recording studio, he and his partner are on the road all the time supporting various bands. Anyway, we finally came to terms and set up a date for pickup for Sat May 5th. Dave wasn't able to make it so he had Bobbie meet us at the studio and help load the speakers. We took a couple CDs to sound check them - Played a bit of the Hillary Stagg CD I sent to Zilch, just because it starts with some real LOW bass, then switched to Steely Dan Aja and played bits of a couple songs. Very nice - had a smoother mid that the kludged hybrids seemed to lack somehow.
Anyway - we started loading them into the CRV - turned out they fit best sideways(!) Got them loaded and took a tour of the studio and the many photos and gold discs on the walls for bands they had supported.
Very cool studio!

We stopped at Prudhommes Lost Cajun restaurant - Wonderful cajun food just a bit outside York PA, run by Paul P's cousin ... Emma had blackened catfish with shrimp and crab claw topping - I had fried gator with redbeans and rice and draft Yeungling ... mightyfine!

Anyway, we just got home and I have to go get a neighbor to help me unload these and get them in the house before dark. Then flip my speaker wiring around to feed these conventionally at first, 'til I get time to open them and set them up for bi-amping (thanks for the lesson, Zilch).

More info here on the 4341s when I've got it ...

Once I've sorted these out a bit, the L200s will be up for sale.
All mods to them were done in the external cabinets, so they are pretty stock and sound fine. (more on them in another thread later)

[grumpy]

Sweeeeet! :) :applaud::bouncy:

Congrats! -grumpy

[Titanium Dome]

Man, those look nice. Did lenses and grilles come with them?

[hjames]

No grills, no lenses - but I got a spare set of lenses last summer - so I'll put the lenses that came with the 4320s on these, and put the spares on the L-200s. Grills? I'll find a way to make a set of them.

There is a small chip out of the right side of one near the back - but I suspect they'll come up real nice with Howard's feed'n'Wax ...


Man, those look nice. Did lenses and grilles come with them?

[4313B]

Very nice! :yes:

[SMKSoundPro]

There is a small chip out of the right side of one near the back - but I suspect they'll come up real nice with Howard's feed'n'Wax ...

Lisa is yelling at me to tell you: Howard's Restore a Finish and 0000 steelwool! She says feednwax will screw you!

(Don't shoot me...Just the messenger)

ps. Congratulations!!!!!

S&L

[sourceoneaudio]

Very COOL, nice score Ms. Heather.



Jeff
J/S-S1A :D

[Fred Sanford]

Very, very nice. How long were you holding your breath? I'd have been blue by the time I got 'em home & fired up.

Best of luck with them, hope I get to hear them in person some day...

je

[Earl K]

Congratulations Heather ( & Emma ) !

Nice :p

:)

[jim campbell]

i guess ill be the nosy one and ask how much (or little) did those set ya back

[SEAWOLF97]

Score a big one (or two) for Ms. James....congrats.

[hjames]

i guess ill be the nosy one and ask how much (or little) did those set ya back

Well, a good price - less than he'd asked on ebay ... more than I'd want to pay ...
but of course, once I know whats right I can sell all the parts from the kludged pair - such as the Alnico 2405s, the extra pair of 2123s, the 3133 crossovers I built, and that pair of L200s that are in the way now ... pity, but the room is too small to use them as subs or rear surrounds!

[brutal]

Is one of them missing a foilcal?

[Zilch]

Good JOB, Heather !! :thmbsup:

[Need more JBL Monitor Blue, do ya? ;) ]

[hjames]

Good JOB, Heather !! :thmbsup:

[Need more JBL Monitor Blue, do ya? ;) ]
Yep - I'm gonna have to take some dimensions and order a couple yards - NEXT payday ...

I got them in the house, moved the L200s out of the corner and plopped them in place. Ran LF & RF speaker lines from the HK receiver - that'll have to do until I get chance to open them up and split off the woofers so I can use the biAmp gear. Anyway, with a lowly 55w/ch, and the B380 running, we just watched some odd Ewan Mcgregor movie called "Stay" real wackoo thing like Vanilla Sky.

really bassy soundtrack music but there was some moments of sound effects ... for instance - there was a sudden car crash Thud and smash - sheesh - I thought our big window had cracked - the impact! Bass has a much more palpable Attack & seems to play a lot lower as well.


According to the ebay description -
The one foilcal has Serial Number 10009 - apparently quite a low number from Riessen's post here (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=163127&postcount=18)
One foilcal is gone, no grills, no lenses. Some scratches (not too bad) a small chip on the lower right back side
one UHF Lpad is bad and something is wrong in the other UHF network ... Also, it has
2234 15" Woofers and
2123 10" MidBass
So at some point I do need to swap out the 2123s for a pair of 2122s to make them box/stock,
but I will be interested in the Giskard cc crossover network and swapping out those nasty JBL pushpin connectors
with some of the brass 5-way post - 2 pair per connect plate so I can run them in biAmp mode ...
but - there's lots of time to do that, now that they are here!

[subwoof]

I actually contacted dave long before the auction ended but I guess your offer ( though less ) was sweeter....:o)

I went thru the same holdingmybreath process when I bought my 4345's and they also needed a lot of work. Unfortunately I had to sell them due to family illness but I was hoping for these to get that feeling back..:)

You will find the 10 *really* needs to be the foam surround 2121 or 2122 for the cabinet to work correctly. The 2123 cannot be tamed with network tweaks or level control without a lot of work.

Any competent JBL reconer can add the mass ring to the 2234 to make it a 2235.

Networks that old should be removed and saved for resale and a nice pair of new ones built aka giskard/style for the best listening.

Enjoy!


:cheers:

sub

[4313B]

but I will be interested in the Giskard cc crossover networkContact riessen (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/member.php?u=1656) when and if you would like to order that kind of network.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Well done Heather.

Ian

[Fangio]

Those look great Heather, congrats. :)

First impression is, the 4341 dimensions seem to blend in perfectly with your entertainment room.

[macaroonie]

Heather you have 'arrived' as they say. They look super and fit your room a little better. I bet you are smiling from ear to ear. :D :D :D :D :D

[opimax]

Way to go Heather!!! the funny part to me is your room is starting to look "normal" ,lol

When is the local JBL listening date?

Mark

[DAVID POHLER]

Heather....Your really going to enjoy them!!!

Have Fun! :applaud:

[hjames]

I actually contacted dave long before the auction ended but I guess your offer ( though less ) was sweeter....:o)

You will find the 10 *really* needs to be the foam surround 2121 or 2122 for the cabinet to work correctly. The 2123 cannot be tamed with network tweaks or level control without a lot of work.

Any competent JBL reconer can add the mass ring to the 2234 to make it a 2235.

Networks that old should be removed and saved for resale and a nice pair of new ones built aka giskard/style for the best listening.

Enjoy! :cheers:

sub

Thanks Sub - the whole thing floated about 3 weeks - I made a bid offline when the auction had just started - but he wanted to let the auction run its course, and I didn't want to pay $2 for an unknown. The pictures were pretty bad (cellphone??). Shows the value to the seller of taking some time to post Good Pictures (and not putting the starting bid so high).

And for the folks who say all the good JBLs are on the Left Coast -
these speakers came from "Right Coast Recording Studio (http://www.rightcoastrecording.com/)" - that was really their name, no joke ... a very cool bunch of folks who do road sound for major bands as well as a neat studio a bit outside York PA.

Again, they aren't perfect - I'll need to find a pair of 2121s (not too likely) or 2122s for the midbass drivers - and some work with the crossovers.

But they sound pretty sweet to us now even without the updates.

[porschedpm]

.....So at some point I do need to swap out the 2123s for a pair of 2122s to make them box/stock.......

Hi Heather. It looks like the JBL bug has got a hold of you too. It's no use fighting it. Just go with it. I think the first thing I'd do is get one of those repro foilcals. You can eventually get grills made but they do look pretty damn cool just the way they are with the blue baffles exposed to the world.

Anyway, here are the drivers specified for your 4341's according to JBL Pro's "Studio Monitor Reference Chart"

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Systems%20Reference%20Charts/Studio%20Monitor%20Series.pdf

LF....... 2231A
MF...... 2121
HF...... 2420
UHF.... 2405
xover.. 3141

If your drivers are not stock, you have the choice of returning to the original drivers specified or updating to the those specified for the 4343b or 4344. And if the existing xovers are to be rebuilt anyway it might make it an easy decision to go the update route.

[hjames]

Hi Heather. It looks like the JBL bug has got a hold of you too. It's no use fighting it. Just go with it. I think the first thing I'd do is get one of those repro foilcals. You can eventually get grills made but they do look pretty damn cool just the way they are with the blue baffles exposed to the world.

Anyway, here are the drivers specified for your 4341's according to JBL Pro's "Studio Monitor Reference Chart"

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Systems%20Reference%20Charts/Studio%20Monitor%20Series.pdf

LF 2231A
MF 2121
HF 2420
UHF 2405
xover 3141

If your drivers are not stock, you have the choice of returning to the original drivers specified or updating to the those specified for the 4343b or 4344. And if the existing xovers are to be rebuilt anyway it might make it an easy decision to go the update route.

Mine are pretty early in the production run - the one foilcal says s/n 10009 - and I do plan to get a pair of repro foilcals!

In another thread on them (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=163127&postcount=18), Riessen speculated that they were pretty early in the limited run of this model - say early-mid 1973. His came with 2230A woofers (white cone), and I guess thats probably what these had originally. The guys who had these said they worked for Clair Brothers sound and probably swapped in whatever driver was available when something failed - thus the 2234s and 2123s. I plan to correct the 10" midbass drivers based on everything I've read here (Giskard and the rest), not so sure the 15s need to be changed - I have more research to do on that, but the 2234s sound great - certainly a fuller bass sound than the 2215s I've been used to listening to from the 4320/L200/hybrid 4 ways I had kludged together. Emma says the hole in the lower mid-bass range is gone now and she's right.

I haven't opened the 4341s up yet (patience!) but from Dave's note (the seller)
2234 15s, 2123 10s, 2420s & 2307 horns (my lenses), 2405 slots

The kludged 4-ways were all Alnico
2215s 15s, 2123 10s, 2420 + short horns & lenses, 2405 slots -
so the ONLY differences between those 4 ways and these are:

3141 crossover
2234 15s
well designed cabinet
(and that Greg Timbers touch!)

All that is significant - Emma thinks we've moved up at least 2 notches in quality (and I haven't even done the biAmp thing yet).

[saeman]

What IF someone out there had a brand new pair of 4341 grilles, covered with Zilch Cloth - and what IF someone out there had a brand new pair of ORIGINAL factory 4341 baffle foil-cals.

[hjames]

I've opened the cabinet to take a look at drivers and such and the one cabinet I opened is rammed full of what looks like Pink fiberglass insulation, in addition to the yellow stuff I I would have expected in there. I mean rammed full - I can't imagine how the ports would work with all of that in there.

Should I remove that excess stuff - at least from the main cavity where the 2234 works?

[saeman]

I have opened up 3 maybe 4 pairs of original 4341's and have found the upper area inside the read access FULL of folded and rolled up insulation. This I believe is normal for this model. The 4343 does not seem to be pack that full. Could this be that the 4341 cabinet has a smaller internal volume than the 4343????

Most JBL insulation you see is plain old everyday yellow - but JBL did use pink and I have found both colors in original cabinets. Early cabinets in the mid to late 60's used pink. I had a pair of 67 vintage Olympus that was full of pink.

The stock 4341 will have the upper areas packed full of insulation. In the lower area they also placed a thick blanket over the crossover, which is mounted to the floor of the cabinet.

[hjames]

Okay - I left the insulation in the top area - but I did pull the woofer on one box to sort out the connect panel and remove the extraneous other crossover they had built wired to the canon jack.

I'm mounting a pair of 5 way brass connectors with leads for the 3141 crossover output to the woofer coming through a small hole and tied externally for the bottom lugs (thus looped through for the 2234) and the top pair currently fed to the input of the 3141 network.

I'll cover the 3141 can and make sure the inner box surfaces are covered but that lower cavity area was literally rammed full of insulation. I'll pack it back in for now - but ..?

[Krunchy]

Congratulations Heather, you got The Blues!

Let The Good Times Roll

[richluvsound]

Hi Heather,
concrats on the new acquisition. They were built for you.They look great too!!!:applaud:
Rich

[hjames]

What IF someone out there had a brand new pair of 4341 grilles, covered with Zilch Cloth - and what IF someone out there had a brand new pair of ORIGINAL factory 4341 baffle foil-cals.

if such wondrous things did exist, someone in Virginia would certainly be VERY interested in learning more and procuring such unobtainium!
How might one find out about such a delightful possiblity?

[sourceoneaudio]

What IF someone out there had a brand new pair of 4341 grilles, covered with Zilch Cloth - and what IF someone out there had a brand new pair of ORIGINAL factory 4341 baffle foil-cals.



if such wondrous things did exist, someone in Virginia would certainly be VERY interested in learning more and procuring such unobtainium!
How might one find out about such a delightful possiblity?

Heather,
I would say he was da man, that will be good for you to finish and make them pretty.

Jeff
J/S-S1A :blink:

[saeman]

One must be patient until the next time I go over to my shop to check for sure that I in fact do have this extra pair of grilles. I'm sure that back when I restored a pair of 4341's a year or so ago, that I built two pairs of grilles. I intend some day to scratch build a pair of 4341's and therefore didn't mind having an extra pair. I can always build some more.

One also has two pairs of NOS foil cals with serial numbers on them. I know this for sure and you can have one of these pairs - price to be determined. One also hates to tells you that I also has ONE and only ONE pair of 4341 grille badges but I must keep them, along with a pair of foil cals since it's my destiny :banghead: to eventually build a pair of 4341's. I was going to have repro badges made but there are not enough takers to meet the minimum that I would need to have made. I'll let you know if something changes on that in the future.

if such wondrous things did exist, someone in Virginia would certainly be VERY interested in learning more and procuring such unobtainium!
How might one find out about such a delightful possiblity?

[speakerdave]

Hi Heather,

I sure like the way you go after a good pair of speakers.

I do have one suggestion though, for you, and for the seller (or your neighbor), who is making big mistakes in the photo you have up there of him leaning way over and hauling on, what, 175 pounds of speaker?--you wouldn't want a nice guy to hurt his back, now would you? Using a hand truck also tends to preserve speakers, because you get a better hold on them and there are fewer mishaps.

Available at a variety of price points. When I took delivery of my 4345's I went out and bought a cheap appliance dolly. An appliance dolly has strapping to hold the load on, so you can guide and haul the load with both arms and both legs straight, even and balanced.

David

[hjames]

Thanks for your thoughtfulness!
We did have my handy dandy folding handtruck ($40 available from Lowes) - it collapses down the handles and the bed and wheels pivot and fold flat - its really very small when folded. I got it when I chased down those 4320s in Philly, used it for the L200 cabinets from Aberdeen (Md), and now these 4341s. Its in the back of my truck at all times, so I don't get tempted to just lift something, and its in its box, so it doesn't bang up the back of the CRV when I'm thrashing it around like a sportscar. ;)

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=24902&stc=1&d=1178530397

What you are seeing in this photo is the speaker on the handtruck, with the truck tilted low so we can lift/roll it over a significant bump at the threshold to the loading dock - roughly 4 - 4 1/2 foot above the packing lot. The only real lifting was did was when we passed it down from the loading dock into the Honda. I had the inside lined with spare cardboard boxes so we could slide it safely on them in the truck. After we got home Emma and I spun the speakers and, with a sheet of cardboard in place, slide them out over the tailgate and tilted them down to the drive (on the feet). Eased the handtruck under the feet then rolled it down the sidewalk and into the kitchen. Emma helped me guide it over our stoop, but again, very little actual lifting - I am VERY careful about my back - (bad sciatica already).

Thanks for the helpful thoughts!

Hi Heather,

I sure like the way you go after a good pair of speakers.

I do have one suggestion though, for you, and for the seller (or your neighbor), who is making big mistakes in the photo you have up there of him leaning way over and hauling on, what, 175 pounds of speaker?--you wouldn't want a nice guy to hurt his back, now would you?

David

[JBLRaiser]

Well, thought out(not surprised), saw the opportunity, made the offer, closed the deal, brought the right transport gear and voila!!!!Beautiful speakers. Well done.:applaud:

[hjames]

Well, thought out(not surprised), saw the opportunity, made the offer, closed the deal, brought the right transport gear and voila!!!!Beautiful speakers. Well done.:applaud:

Bless your heart - thanks a bunch!

[Robh3606]

Well those do look nice! Great score!

Rob:)

[fotodan]

Great job Heather, could you crank them a little, to see if I can hear them in the SW part of the state??:rockon1: :rockon2:

[hjames]

Great job Heather, could you crank them a little, to see if I can hear them in the SW part of the state??:rockon1: :rockon2:

Not yet, but soon - I've modified one speaker with a biAmp connect plate - with luck I may get the second one configured for that by mid-week ... tho it'll hafta be the HK Citation 22 for the woofers right now - every JBL amp I bought (used) has been DOA so far!

[speakerdave]

. . . . - every JBL amp I bought (used) has been DOA so far!

That's really sad, but that's ebay.

David

[hjames]

That's really sad, but that's ebay.

David

yeah, the first seller was a crank and a scumbag (6260), the second is genuinely surprised and is working with me - tho I have to pull the amp from the rack, open it up and have a look (6230).

Of course we have also been kinda busy elsewhere this weekend (chasing speakers, plus yardwork - I even mowed the lawn again Sunday!) and the azaleas are blooming bigtime right now ... nearly peaked! So, its worthwhile to grab a cool brew and sit outside and just soak in all the colors and sounds - birds singing everywhere - even the hummingbirds appeared last week ...

[speakerdave]

yeah, the first seller was a crank and a scumbag (6260), the second is genuinely surprised and is working with me - tho I have to pull the amp from the rack, open it up and have a look (6230).

That's nice, but you get to do the work and of course you're out the freight. He could have hooked it up once.

. . . . the azaleas are blooming bigtime right now ... nearly peaked

Glory be! (as my grandmother used to say).

David

[Andyoz]

Heather, I just noticed your reference to The Blue Nile. Good taste!

[hjames]

Heather, I just noticed your reference to The Blue Nile. Good taste!

Paul Buchanan is fantastic - wish they came out with material a bit more frequently ... but perhaps it would loose something if he did ...

of course I missed the one and only tour years ago ... but I missed Camel and even Gentle Giant as they toured - in the day.

Yeah - Over the hillside is fabulous on these speakers - the snap of the Linn drums - whew!

[Andyoz]

They toured last Nov (minus one band member I think) and played Dublin over two nights in a classic intimate venue (Vicar Street).....but I completely missed it :(

They pop up every so often, there's a gig this July in Manchester, England. I am keeping an eye out to see if they will play Dublin again. You can normally see bands like that in small venues here (I saw David Byrne in a 300 seater venue 2 years ago)

Tinseltown in the Rain will always be one of my top 5 system demo tracks.

[SEAWOLF97]

(I saw David Byrne in a 300 seater venue 2 years ago)
.

We saw "Talking Heads" before anyone knew who they were. Radio station had a concert series at the Paramont called "Catch a Rising Star" . always $.92 admission.(station was 92.3 FM) They were paired with "The Outlaws". Not a bad concert investment.

[Andyoz]

Oh sod it, we're right off topic now!

That David Byrne concert went straight into my top 5 best. I was there with 3 other serious Dubliner music goers and they were awestruck (and these boys had seen it all).

Standing there, 15 feet from him, when they played Once in a Lifetime still brings back great memories. I shudder to think what Talking Heads were like in full flight during the early 80's.

[boputnam]

Wow... I been gigging, and missed the WHOLE thing!

Nice score, Heather (and Emma... :wave: ) - what a cool transition your listening room has gone through! Thanks - those old stacks of stacks used to worry my acoustic conscience! :rotfl:

Now, just gotta get some furniture cleared outa the way, and off you go!

btw - on the comment speakerdave made about handtrucks: I stand cardboard behind the 4345, and gently lay it over ON the handtruck. These are very difficult to get your fingers under if laid onto the floor, so just keep it balanced on the handtruck when your working around inside. Lay a towel on the baffle when you remove the woofs, to set them on until you get the leads loose. Also, I don't think I'd worry about the extra fiberglass - that is virtual voume (won't affect the ports fuction). However, you may want them matched. Ask the seller if he added/removed any, or knows if this happened...

Now, you'll steadily find your CD collection is less and less enjoyable. Only few productions really work on cabinets like that - and I mean really work.

[Chas]

Now, you'll steadily find your CD collection is less and less enjoyable. Only few productions really work on cabinets like that - and I mean really work.

Too right Bo, I have the same issue. That's why I'm spending more on vinyl now.:)

Nice score, Heather. Remember to replace those capacitors in the networks after you have had a listen for a while.

[hjames]

Wow... I been gigging, and missed the WHOLE thing!
These are very difficult to get your fingers under if laid onto the floor, so just keep it balanced on the handtruck when your working around inside. Lay a towel on the baffle when you remove the woofs, to set them on until you get the leads loose.



Good suggestion - fortunately the 4341s are a bit smaller than those 4345s - I can't even imagine lifting them from full flat ... I laid one of mine on its back yesterday (on the carpet) and it wasn't until I had it nearly flat before I realized it was going to be a problem getting it back up. Fortunately I was able to tip it slightly sideways and get a soft piece of 1 x 2 pine under the top edge , then lay it back, so I could get a hand hold (using my knees) to ease it back to a standing position.
The towel for the baffleboard is a great suggestion - thanks!

Like I said - my immediate goal is to remove the hacked rear connector panel (with the big toggle switch and round cannon connector) and install a simpler panel with 2 pair of 5 way binding posts - so later I can remove the bass feed from the 3141 and feed the 2234s directly from the biamp system.

I'm currently running them on the HL receiver's 55w/ch outputs - but I'd love to feed those woofers with the Citation 22 - its overkill bridged feeding the B380 (which I can probably sell now!) but should be just about right in two channel mode for these woofers.

Thanks for the tips!

[boputnam]

... my immediate goal is to remove the hacked rear connector panel (with the big toggle switch and round cannon connector) and install a simpler panel with 2 pair of 5 way binding posts - so later I can remove the bass feed from the 3141 and feed the 2234s directly from the biamp system...As you may already know, that "back panel" is the base of the crossover. Removing the woof will expose the crossover and it's mounting (machine) screws. Easy to remove, turn it over and there is the "panel". You may have to remove it, make some measurements and/or a plan for replacing the posts and preparing for the biamp connections...

[hjames]

As you may already know, that "back panel" is the base of the crossover.
Removing the woof will expose the crossover and it's mounting (machine) screws. Easy to remove, turn it over and there is the "panel". You may have to remove it, make some measurements and/or a plan for replacing the posts and preparing for the biamp connections...

Thats the way the 3110 network was in the 4320s, but on the 4341 its quite a bit different (even moreso because there was an alternate secondary network installed circa 1984 (by the Clair Brothers speaker tech probably). The rear connector plate it came with had a 8 pin cannon connector and a big toggle switch above the push-type spring connectors.
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=24932&stc=1&d=1178630966
Actually, on mine the crossover is in a large grey box with a metal perforated metal lid - looks like its bolted to the base (bottom) inside the "woofer cavity". It has a JBL grey label that says 3141 on the side but I couldn't read the serial number yesterday. It is 6 1/4 wide x 8 1/4 long x 4 1/4 inches tall.

The top cover has two grommet holes where the various wires exit - the grey bundle runs to the Lpad sub-assembly that gets mounted inside the top baffleboard. The other grommet has the loose pairs: red and black went to the rear input connector, green and black went to the 2234 terminals. So - I tied red and black to red and black on my new access plate, drilled a small hole on the side of my new plate for the green and black wired to exit the cabinet and connect externally to the lower binding posts, and made a short jumper of stranded copper zip cord (tinned on both ends) to go internally from the lower binding posts to the 2234.
That way I can remove (and insulated) the LF leads from the 3141 when I want to biAmp, and feed the woofers from an external LF amp, and use a second amp to for the other binding posts to feed the 3141 and the other 3 drivers.

At least thats the plan until I can order a CC network from Riessen ...
and swap them for the 3141 networks.

[hjames]

We have achieved the biamp technology!

HK receiver preamp out --> JBL/UREI 552 active preamp --<===

--> LF leg --> Citation 22 (200w/ch) ==2234 woofers direct
--> HF leg --> Crown D75 (75w/ch) ===3141 crossover == 2123/2420/2405 drivers

They have a satisfying WHOOMP now when the music goes whoomp. You all were quite right --- waahoo!

The glass tops I had made for the L200s are a perfect fit in width, maybe 3/4 short front-back - so I'll use them on the Monitors. After wax-n-feed the cabinets are flat gorgeous - a few groves and dings but very few chips - the veneer is quite nice!

My biamp plans were actually a bit different - I had hoped to go all JBL for the biAmping - like Tom Loizeaux advised me to do last winter, but ...
... I bought a 6260 on ebay for the low split but it was all burned up inside
and bought a 6230 on ebay for the hi-split - it looks gorgeous but no output.

Got a VISA chargeback going on the burned up amp - definate ripoff
I just finished closing up the 6230 - looks fine but I think it got shook up in shipping - seller is VERY responsive to my emails

[boputnam]

HK receiver preamp out -->Next baby-step, remove the "receiver" word from the signal path.

Time to grow-up to separates, Heather - you have reach the point of needing a quality pre-amp.

And, are you planning to measure the response of the system, and apply some EQ (as needed)...?

[JBLnsince1959]

Well, I can't beleive I missed this one...congradulations on what looks to be a great purchase...that would be soooo exciting...Welcome to the "big leauges"

Sorry to hear about the amp trouble...after being burned on Ebay Two ( too many) times, I no longer buy electronics there ( at least if I expect them to work), but will buy stuff from here and audiogon...


With the gang here to ( Bo, Rick, Giskard and others) guide you, you can be sure that things will get just right.

Next baby-step, remove the "receiver" word from the signal path.

And, are you planning to measure the response of the system, and apply some EQ (as needed)...?

agree big time...

Good luck..

[lfh]

:applaud:

Fredrik

[hjames]

Next baby-step, remove the "receiver" word from the signal path.

Time to grow-up to separates, Heather - you have reach the point of needing a quality pre-amp.

And, are you planning to measure the response of the system, and apply some EQ (as needed)...?

I know - Separates - nearly there ... but ...
one big reason Emma bought into me dropping that kind of money was that I have always kept the system reasonably "Emma friendly" - the receiver allows her to switch to CNN or Comedy Central or our local ch9 HD News feed without too much grief. Shes good about powering up the receiver, the crossover, then the two amps - but going too full blown into pieces destroys the friendliness of the system (maybe next year ...)

Of course the other reason she let me drop that kind of money was, after hearing Steely Dan's AJA cd through them, she said they were at least a double jump beyond what we already had at home (bless her heart, she loves the good sounds!)


And - system measurements and EQ - well - the furniture is a kick, I need to move those other big boxes (L200s) down the road, and the right 4341 has a bad Lpad for the 2405 (a known problem when purchased) ... so I at least need to fix that before I go through a test/EQ session. And if I'm going to do that, I should probably set up the blank cards for the 5235 I got from Ian last fall and at least remove that variable (the 552) from the system.

Lots of possibilities!

[boputnam]

...I have always kept the system reasonably "Emma friendly" - Uh-OH, Emma Bashing!!?? Better not! :bash:

You should put the system on a power distributor/surge protector - Surgex (http://www.surgex.com/prod_rack.html) is my brand of choice, but Furman (http://www.furmansound.com/) is plenty fine, too. I'm a rack-mount guy, but there are other configs...

My wifey and kids do just fine - one switch powers everything, and the QSC's safe power-up cycle brings them up, last, all-on-their-own.

A proper pre-amp has multiple inputs clearly marked, so Emma won't have any struggle moving into the new gear, I assure you. Plus, she, and you, will be astounded at the sounds that were masked by the receiver innards...

...if I'm going to do that, I should probably set up the blank cards for the 5235 I got from Ian last fall and at least remove that variable (the 552) from the system.That is your call, but I wouldn't shy away from the 552. It is very well made, and certainly newer than the 5235 unit (unbalanced, correct...?).

OK - keep us informed (I know you will... :) ).

[X_X]

I can't even imagine lifting them from full flat ... I laid one of mine on its back yesterday (on the carpet) and it wasn't until I had it nearly flat before I realized it was going to be a problem getting it back up. Fortunately I was able to tip it slightly sideways and get a soft piece of 1 x 2 pine under the top edge , then lay it back, so I could get a hand hold (using my knees) to ease it back to a standing position.
The towel for the baffleboard is a great suggestion - thanks!

:blink: :blink:
Sounds like some mighty fine lovin'!!


Seriously,

Excellent monitors! You did very, very well. They will only appreciate. I'm sure you will nurse them back proper. Fine job!

[hjames]

absolutely , my yam c-4 is setup for 1 button - everything comes up.

Okay - but I just got the HK 335 receiver to get adjustable level control, smart auto-switching from Stereo (for CDs, FM & vinyl) to Surround (for TV & DVDs) - remote with mute button for when elderly parents call, oh, and 55w/ch for center & surrounds (small room) plus preamp outs for the fronts to feed the biAmp stuff... (and to put money in the Harman basket instead of other firms ...)

One change at a time guys - the pocket is limited and completing the Monitors is really the first order of business - first I need to replace the bad UHF lPad, then ned a pair of 2121s or 2122s to replace the 2123s

'course if someone wanted to buy the L200s ... that might speed the process!

[Titanium Dome]

Bo's suggestion of the power distributor/surge protector is a good one but won't solve all the variables. I use power sequencers/surge protectors to turn everything on and off for various systems, but if I stopped there, I'd still have to get the right input going on the CRT projector, the correct channel on the OTR HD receiver, or the DVD player or VCR or LD player on, or the sound in stereo, DTS, PLIIx, 7.1 analog pass through, airTunes, etc.

So the second part of the equation for me is the Harmony 880 remote. Push one button, let's say for "Watch DVD" and
-the pre/pro turns on and selects the DVD profile
-the DVD player turns on and selects 7.1 analog audio output and component video output
-the projector turns on and switches to component input
-the amps turn on in sequence
-the DVD controls, volume, and chapter numbers are all controlled on the same remote

Later, I want to watch Ugly Betty. I push one button, "Watch TV" and
-the DVD player turns off
-the OTR HD receiver turns on and selects RGB HD out
-the pre/pro selects the Video 1 profile and PLIIx-C
-the CRT PJ selects RGB 1080i
-the HD receiver controls, channel selection, and volume are all controlled on the same remote

Afterward, it's time for Eargle on Everest, so I push "Play Music" and
-the HD receiver turns off
-the CD player turns on
-the pre/pro selects the CD profile and stereo analog bypass
-the CRT PJ turns off
-the CD controls, volume, and track numbers are controlled on the same remote

Then I want to go to bed, so I hit "Off" and
-the CD player turns off
-the the pre/pro turns off
-the amps power down in sequence

So four buttons to do all that. Annie loves it because she's a one button gal, and she hated it when there were three or four remotes to accomplish one thing. I betcha Emma would love it, too, and you're the go-to-techer to get it all set up over the Internet with your Mac or PC.

Put it on Emma's wish list.

[Fred Sanford]

Bo's suggestion of the power distributor/surge protector is a good one but won't solve all the variables. I use power sequencers/surge protectors to turn everything on and off for various systems, but if I stopped there, I'd still have to get the right input going on the CRT projector, the correct channel on the OTR HD receiver, or the DVD player or VCR or LD player on, or the sound in stereo, DTS, PLIIx, 7.1 analog pass through, airTunes, etc.

So the second part of the equation for me is the Harmony 880 remote.

<SNIPS>

Put it on Emma's wish list.

Heather- my new company sells & programs these by the boatload, let me know if you want to check one out or pick one up. I'm getting a Harmony 1000 as a temporary setup for my LR system (the full-boat Crestron system is a little while away), you can see that one in action or visit my company's theater/showroom which uses one of the Harmony handhelds.

je

[hjames]

Heather- my new company sells & programs these by the boatload, let me know if you want to check one out or pick one up. I'm getting a Harmony 1000 as a temporary setup for my LR system (the full-boat Crestron system is a little while away), you can see that one in action or visit my company's theater/showroom which uses one of the Harmony handhelds.

je

Awesome - TiDome explains it all then you just pop up with connections to all this good stuff!

Again, the budget says its mundane stuff I need to pay for for the next few checks ... and replenish savings from Saturday's fun ... (partly by selling stuff, like the Triumph), but maybe June/July or so I will be looking into this!
I gather I would still need something to manage power switching for the biAmp gear (crossover & amps) that wasn't made to be remoted ...

[boputnam]

Why can't it be both? ...

:blah:
:blah:
:blah:

...semi-OT and long :yes:


:p

See, I only have three sources and one set of mains - I'm far too simple for your complex setup, Doug. I got a clear picture of that reading your plan-of-attack for listening to the Eargle on Everest CD - man, I don't think I could even wire all that stuff up! :rotfl:

[hjames]

:yes:


:p

See, I only have three sources and one set of mains - I'm far too simple for your complex setup, Doug. I got a clear picture of that reading your plan-of-attack for listening to the Eargle on Everest CD - man, I don't think I could even wire all that stuff up! :rotfl:

C'mon - in my last job I managed commercial insertion gear on 5 major CATV systems in the DC area - Job before that I was a headend tech for a 200,000 subscriber CATV system in MoCo, MD - we rewired the whole darned thing one winter 64 channels with multiple audio/video/ fiber AML (microwave) and an all-channel priority override system for national emergency notification.

8-10 piece systems is easy! :applaud:

But Emma is not such an ubergeek ...

[Fred Sanford]

Awesome - TiDome explains it all then you just pop up with connections to all this good stuff!

Again, the budget says its mundane stuff I need to pay for for the next few checks ... and replenish savings from Saturday's fun ... (partly by selling stuff, like the Triumph), but maybe June/July or so I will be looking into this!
I gather I would still need something to manage power switching for the biAmp gear (crossover & amps) that wasn't made to be remoted ...

NOT THE TRIUMPH!?! You need music and motorcycling for a well-balanced diet. (A Buell just passed by my window)

You live near wonderful riding roads. (A Shadow just came into the parking lot)

I rode to work today, and I arrived focused and inspired. (There's a bitchin' HawkGT next to my desk)

je

[hjames]

NOT THE TRIUMPH!?! You need music and motorcycling for a well-balanced diet. (A Buell just passed by my window)

je

Well - I don't have time or the workbench (currently) to really maintain a restoration project like a 1970 Triumph Trophy. When I had my 73 750 twin Triumph it had a bit more oomph and was a bit better keeping up in traffic. I was also a bit younger. But I didn't even ride it much last year (too d@mned many SUVs oblivious to their surroundings 'round these parts) , I just bought a new battery so I can get it started, and maybe I need a more complete bike (re: less project) - ... so I'll sell it for a bit under $2k including helmet and that pays for the monitors! Once I get the battery loaded & started I'll probably Craigslist it ... couple of weeks should be just about prime season.

Currently, I'll enjoy the investment better in the 4341s than I did last year in the Triumph ...

[Fred Sanford]

Audio/music is my money-making hobby, motorcycling is my money-sucking hobby. I end up broke, but balanced & happy...hopefully. Actual JBL content: we installed JBL speakers at a job on Friday. It was a Subway restaurant, with itty-bitty 70V control monitors off a TOA amp. Pays the bills, right?

(A Harley just rode by)

Good luck selling the Triumph, hope you can pick up something new soon.

je

p.s. considering selling the Hawk GT for a DRZ-400S, though...roads 'round here turn into gravel & cow pies without warning. A dream garage might be a 1/2/3/4 setup-

DR = single cylinder dual sport,
Hawk GT = V-twin sporty bike,
Triumph Thunderbird Sport = triple classic/cruiser,
CB750 = inline four touring/standard.

Should cover all my needs.

(A V-Max this time)

[hjames]

Yeah - been there, done that (installed 70v Muzak systems mid 70s) ...
dirty work, often hot and thankless ... at least for Muzak.

Actual JBL content: we installed JBL speakers at a job on Friday. It was a Subway restaurant, with itty-bitty 70V control monitors off a TOA amp. Pays the bills, right?


Yeah - been there, done that (installed 70v Muzak systems mid 70s) ...
dirty work, often hot (when near a kitchen) and thankless ... at least for Muzak.

[Fred Sanford]

Yeah - been there, done that (installed 70v Muzak systems mid 70s) ...
dirty work, often hot (when near a kitchen) and thankless ... at least for Muzak.

The Subway was open & running, and they even wouldn't give our tech a drink- made him pay for it! :blink:

He bought a "small" soda and took 16 free refills throughout the day, I think he won. He bought lunch at a nearby competitor's, and said he was tempted to scatter the "Quiznos" napkins around the tables at the Subway. :applaud:

je

[Fred Sanford]

Back on topic (sort of), don't go IR with the universal remote if you can afford it, look for "RF". When you're stringing macro scripts together you don't want to deal with line-of-sight IR issues.

je

[hjames]

Back on topic (sort of), don't go IR with the universal remote if you can afford it, look for "RF". When you're stringing macro scripts together you don't want to deal with line-of-sight IR issues.

je

Okay, thanks!
I bought one of the Universal Remote MX-500 units about 2 years ago via Amazon - perhaps I wasn't keen on the activity based programming at the time, but it was a pain to set up, didn't seem to remember my devices well, and seemed to hang. Of course, that was with the JVC receiver - maybe it'd be better with the HK AVR335 (?) ... (doubtful) :blink:

[hjames]

Woohoo! Got the pretty JBL amp from eBay fixed today.
There is a wirewound fuse (slowblow??) on the top circuit board btw the relay and the xfmr. Looked ok but was open - replaced with a fuse from Radio Shack and it powered up just fine, big solid thunk when the relay closes. (popped one fuse from that surge). I suspect the original fuse broke from some jarring of the amp during shipping - and I may have fast acting fuses from Radio shack when I need slowblow .. 1/2 amp 250 Volt. (Ordered a pack of slowblow fuses and a pair of 8 ohm 50w Lpad for the bad uhf adjust from Parts express last night)

But I wired the amp to the woofer instead of the HK Citation 22 .. that 6230 sounds very nice. Probably not the headroom of the Citation 22 - its rated 200w/ch and the 6230 is around 110 (the OTHER JBL amp, the 6260 thats burned out, was supposed to be the woofer amp and the 6230 supposed to be the high split amp - but now at least one amp isn't a total loss!

FWIW - I have the glass-tops I bought for the L200s on the 4341s to protect the finish - and the amp is on wood spacers to allow airflow while I test it a bit. The wiring is temp - I'll go to dual ended banana plug cables once I know the amp is solid and can stay. I'll probably build a mini rack for the crossover and two amps once everything is settled with gear

[boputnam]

Back on topic (sort of), don't go IR with the universal remote if you can afford it, look for "RF". When you're stringing macro scripts together you don't want to deal with line-of-sight IR issues.
The Widget did an install for a neighbor, using that config. Brilliant. Works like a charm. Even I could manage it... :baby:

[Fred Sanford]

The Widget did an install for a neighbor, using that config. Brilliant. Works like a charm. Even I could manage it... :baby:

Meaning...which? An IR setup or an RF setup worked like a charm?

My main gripe about IR is that you have to maintain line-of-site from the remote to all of the IR receivers (each individual component, or, more expensively, an IR receiver that's branching out to individual components) for the entire duration of the macro/script. See Ti's post for examples of macros I'm describing. Press "watch movie" and put the remote down on your coffee table, and maybe 3 out of 7 events you programmed actually happen, so now components are out of sync in power or input status.

Just an FYI, lots of patient people deal with IR and are fine with it. Still others simply have eleven remotes on their coffee table. :D

je

p.s. Ti said 'LD player'. :screwy: Can't tell you how many times my wife has pointed to the big Pioneer remote and said, "What's this one, then?"

Oh, that's the LD player.

":rolleyes:"

[hjames]

Well, to clear up a suspected ground loop issue, I assembled the biAmp gear in a small rack yesterday. I may swap positions on the power amps - originally I hadn't planned to use the crown but the HK Citation 22 hasn't any ears and its just better suited on the B380 subwoofer. Plus it has those non-standard psuedo-giant banana jacks and I hate to switch wires on it.

The 6230 is running the low-split (2234s), the D-75 is running the high-split (for now) and its quite musical at the low levels we play it at.

So - at least for now, this rack seems to work well, and everything is centrally located. The wood is some cheap scraps from Ikea, but they match all the other beech stuff in the room.

The glass on top of the speakers are the pieces I had cut for the L200s cabinets - they are maybe 3/4" too short front-back but will protect the monitor cabs just fine (no plants will EVER go on THESE puppies.)

[Robh3606]

Hello Heather

Are there vents on the bottom of the 6230?? If there are you may want to leave a rack space between the amp and the crossover. Just put in a perforated spacer so you have good airflow around the amp and it looks finished.

Rob:)

[hjames]

Hello Heather

Are there vents on the bottom of the 6230?? If there are you may want to leave a rack space between the amp and the crossover. Just put in a perforated spacer so you have good airflow around the amp and it looks finished.

Rob:)

Thanks for the tip!
One thought - the crossover is only half as deep as the amp - and the amp only has holes on the bottom in the back - so tho it looks packed, the amp does have airflow space. But I'll look for a pair of perf panels to go above and below ...

[SEAWOLF97]

Hey Heather

I couldnt find the germain thread , but wondered how your fight with the seller of the bum JBL amp turned out ? Forgive me if this has been answered elsewhere .

TOM

[jim campbell]

Thanks for the tip!
One thought - the crossover is only half as deep as the amp - and the amp only has holes on the bottom in the back - so tho it looks packed, the amp does have airflow space. But I'll look for a pair of perf panels to go above and below ...
most of the larger guitar shops have them for around twenty bux.just a thot but those interconnects might be due for an upgrade

[hjames]

Most of the larger guitar shops have perf panels for around twenty bux. Just a thought, but those interconnects might be due for an upgrade.

Currently using the D75 for the hisplit and the 6230 for the woofers.
Well - I got a 1U panel "giveaway", hit it with 300 grit to scuff the surface, then shot it with Rustoleum Black gloss enamel (it had been white!)
and used it to put space between the Crossover and the Crown D-75.
Frankly - there was NO heat in either the crossover or the D-75 - but ... what the heck. I suspect when I pull the D-75 and put the 6230 ibn its place for the high split, then drop either a 6260 or 6290 (sans fans) on top for woofer duties, I think I'll need a new rack (taller) anyway ... but I'm not running anything near as hard as you might in commericial pro-sound usage.

Now ...to clarify ... what are you referring to when you say "interconnects"?
Do you mean the wires from the signal sources to the preamp?
Do you mean the wires from the preamp out to the Active Crossover?
Do you mean the wires between the Active Crossover and the "biamps" ??
Do you mean the wires from the amps to the speaker terminals?
Do you mean the internal speaker (cabinet) wiring?

I'm not trying to be rude - I really don't know the term. I know when we wired up equipment racks in the 70's at the campus radio station we did everything with Belden 8451 - a high-grade, twisted pair within a shield jacket.
I know when we rebuilt the headend at the local 200,000 subscriber CATV system (Simulsat, locals off-air demods/mods, fiber optic feed from News Channel 8) in the late 80s there were 60+ channels and multiple inputs and switching - some lines went to terminal strips and some were XLR, and we still used (basically) a newer equivalent to 8451. Perhaps thats all old school stuff these days? I know some folks use coaxial headend cable (good for 10 meg video signals - fussy stuff!) and some use cat5 datalines for signals - but I'd hate to think I'm using better cable between the devices (CD/DVD/FM/etc) than is used within the hardware itself. I mean, I'm not using a $1000 CD player, and it is just audio ...

[hjames]

Hey Heather

I couldnt find the germain thread , but wondered how your fight with the seller of the bum JBL amp turned out ? Forgive me if this has been answered elsewhere .

TOM

Actually, I did answer you but its gone now - guess one of the Mods didn't like the cut of my jab ...

Basic answer is my complaints with Paypal didn't go my way, so now I'm trying to refuse the charge via VISA - sent them the story and the pictures of the insides of the burned up amp. I also told them I have tried to return the amp but in the ebay ad the seller said they were closing down their studio and there may not be anyone at that address anymore to return it to, and that the seller doesn't reply to my emails - so I can't ship it back unless I know they are actually still there.

Apparently it may take between 6 weeks and 3 months or more to get a refund through VISA, but I have documented everything so far.

[johnaec]

Basic answer is my complaints with Paypal didn't go my way,Why didn't Paypal stand behind you? And what about eBay's protection? There couldn't be a much more obviousl example of misrepresetation... :blink:

John

[Robh3606]

Frankly - there was NO heat in either the crossover or the D-75 - but ... what the heck. I suspect when I pull the D-75 and put the 6230 ibn its place for the high split, then drop either a 6260 or 6290 (sans fans) on top for woofer duties, I think I'll need a new rack (taller) anyway ... but I'm not running anything near as hard as you might in commericial pro-sound usage.


Hello Heather

I don't get much at all either but it's good practice to give them breathing room. I can push my system hard with HT and with a 1 space gap they keep cool really well. I get more heat out of my Behringer than my amps:blink: I can't figure that one out. This is what I was talking about you can get them from Parts Express for about $10. I ended up making a custom rack for my active set-up. I couldn't find an intermediate size to fit what I wanted to rack. So I combined 2 racks to meet my needs.

Rob:)

http://www.partsexpress.com/imageslarge/262-100L.jpg

[subwoof]

I can't tell you how many D75's came into the shop with massive failures.

Crown in their infinite wisdom used resistors that were *barely* large enough ( 1 watt ) and put them flush to the main board to feed the +/- 10V that the (3) chips needed to operate. and then they compounded the problem by mounting the zener diodes flush to the board and depriving them of their only heatsink, the wire leads.

Since packing racks is an obsession with studio and broadcast types, this forced these amplifiers ( which were left on for MANY hours at a time ) to cook. and cook. and cook. And of course all the other items in the rack generated their own heat signatures to compound the problem.

If you give it some breathing room, you will be fine.

And btw, paypal is an arm of ebay and their goal is to get all the fees they can and since it's the seller that coughs it up, guess whose side they are on??

If / when I swing by I will bring a 6260 parts carcass and maybe bring your poor boy back to life..:o) But you have to supply the local ale.

And I cannot imagine how many 1000ft rolls of 8451 I have used in my day...for damn near every hookup imaginable...:)

sub

[hjames]

Why didn't Paypal stand behind you? And what about eBay's protection? There couldn't be a much more obviousl example of misrepresetation... :blink:

John

No names - here's the basics of what happened. I won an ad for a 6260 - $100 plus $80 shipping from Studio City CA. I wrote the seller during the ad for some details on the amp and he assure me he had tested it and the "questionable distortion" mentioned in the ad - he could barely hear it and wasn't sure there was any problem.

I paid with Paypal at the end of the sale, using my VISA card. After I paid I wrote the seller and just asked if he'd let me know when it shipped - my email bounced. I wrote again, twice and it bounced again. I wrote using the ebay message form and heard nothing for two days so I lodged a claim via Paypal and explained the problem - but there are limited options on the claim form so I had to choose "Item not received" as my subject.

2 days later the seller writes Paypal and says "sorry 'bout the email problem, here's my new email address and by the way, it went out FedEx 2 days ago" of course, FedEx says it entered the system that day, the day he answered the claim, not the day of the sale as he claimed ...

I didn't cancel the claim because its hard to find out what that means to the buyers rights - and at that point I was suspicious.

The amp arrived, no padding, badly packed, and smelling burned and was useless.

The original claim is still pending - but I've had no direct response from any Paypal employee, even tho they claim to have emailed buyer and seller on at least 2 occasions - I got nothing (yet I get ebay mails just fine). I escalated the claim to a Dispute ...

Bottom line - because I actually got the amp, my claim was denied, incident was closed, and because Paypal only allows one dispute/claim per sale, I had no way to protest or take it further. They had the gall to send me a survey form so I complained there and then someone wrote and told me where I could find a phone number to speak to a live Paypal CSR.

I called the number and got a Paypal Customer Circus rep in India who, although being sympathetic, had no power to actually DO anything. I said i would have to dispute the charge via VISA buyer protection and she basically said "if thats what I have to do I should do it". SO very sorry I had a bad time blah blah blah ... pointless and useless! Just another frelling stalling tactic!!

Then I called VISA and danced around with THEM a few times - on the 3rd call I finally reached someone who was willing to tell me to Xerox and fill out the form on the back of my monthly statement and send it with a letter explaining the issue and they would look into it. (!)

I wrote a letter, included pictures of the burned up insides of the amp marked in red to highlight the details, and sent that off 2 weeks ago.

Emma told me she had disputed a charge on her VISA a couple years ago and said it can take 3 months or so to get a refund ..

so ... I'm patient - but firm. And still waiting ...

[SEAWOLF97]

so, just for my own education..let me ask "what would you have done different - in retrospect ?

has the mistake been to file the claim under the "not received" heading ?
was there a more appropriate heading ?
would it have been better to delay filing the claim a little ?

I'm not trying to be funny or yank your chain , just want to be prepared
in case I ever get into this situation.

keep us up to date on this , Heather ?

hope subwoof is able to help you with the damage.

[johnaec]

..has the mistake been to file the claim under the "not received" heading ?
was there a more appropriate heading ?I believe they have a heading something like "Item not as described": http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?GetHelp&searchMode=Guided&docID=KC.tp-inr-snad-processhtml&externalID=tp-inr-snad-processhtml&dialogID=127166055&iterationID=1&sessionID=92a454f610f0a04bdae2f562fffe8252&locale=en_US&url=http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/inr-snad-process.html

The odd thing is that "not received" and "not as described" are under the same heading, (I didn't read the details).

John

[hjames]

Again - at the time I made the initial claim, I had just made a payment of $180 via PayPal to a seller who I had previously emailed back and forth just fine, but whose email was bouncing just a half-hour after the sale concluded (and further emails bounced as well).

Sale concluded, money paid, email account closed - not a good sign ...

Sure seemed like fraud at that point - so "Not as described" didn't fit - at that point it was "money paid and seller disappeared" - which wasn't a choice - so "got nothing" or "not received" was the closest match.
Even when he popped up and claimed it had shipped (lying about it shipping 2 days before FedEx claimed it shipped), I wasn't cancelling the claim until I saw a good amp in the mail ... I mean who knows, he might have shipped a box of air for all I knew.
And of course, I never did get a good amp from him ...

You know, hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20 ... and, if a seller really wants to cheat you, they can.

I believe they have a heading something like "Item not as described": http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?GetHelp&searchMode=Guided&docID=KC.tp-inr-snad-processhtml&externalID=tp-inr-snad-processhtml&dialogID=127166055&iterationID=1&sessionID=92a454f610f0a04bdae2f562fffe8252&locale=en_US&url=http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/inr-snad-process.html

The odd thing is that "not received" and "not as described" are under the same heading, (I didn't read the details).

John

[Audiobeer]

Right after Ebay bought PayPal I bought numerous Control 5s that were new in box. I had to file a complaint against the seller because he elected to remove 1 speaker from each of the packing boxes. Now PayPal/Eaby would not stop feverse payment because the item had shipped and it was the item described redardless if the amount was incorrect? American Express read the Ebay add and told PayPal to suck an Ebay. PayPal then read me the riot act.

[jim campbell]

heather,when i refer to interconnects i mean any co ax between components as speaker wire is usually not shielded.rob 3606 has uploaded one of the pix i was going to but there is another brand available from a local place tip top electronics that has other varieties including slotted and solid.in my rack i also have rack trays in 1,2,and 3 space formats to accomodate non rackmount components.i cant remember the name of the manufacturer but try googling tip top electronics winnipeg and see if it pops up,and they probably are available in your area.i saw a catalog once and they have everything you can imagine for rack mounting.............if google doesnt work i can call them for you

[hjames]

Sure, Jim - I guess my point is that I want to wait until I am done
shuffling amps and see how many rack spaces I will actually need before I start doing the final config with spacers and tie down and all of that.
That blank 1U panel is all I've got at the moment, but I can get more where it came from.

When we built the racks for that CATV system, and there were 22 cabinets in the main room, we put a blank panel between every device just for future expansion, even when the device was a patchbay. We also ran all the ins on one side and the outs on the other to separate low level and high level signals. We also ran the AC through an elevated computer floor system with large holes punched through the tiles under each rack, to let cold air be blown up through the racks, and to let the signal cables run in and out of the racks as well. Frankly, home audio rack design is easy compared to broadband multichannel RF/AV systems.

But I'm probably a month or so away from the final config so if I don't tighten everything down just yet, please bear with me. I'm still learning the gear and its potential.

And thanks for the tips!



Heather, when i refer to interconnects, I mean any coax between components, as speaker wire is usually not shielded. Rob3606 has uploaded one of the perf-panel pix I was going to, but there is another brand available from a local place, "tip top electronics", that has other varieties including slotted and solid. In my rack I also have rack trays in 1, 2, and 3 space formats to accomodate non rackmount components.i cant remember the name of the manufacturer but try googling tip top electronics winnipeg and see if it pops up,and they probably are available in your area.i saw a catalog once and they have everything you can imagine for rack mounting.............if google doesnt work i can call them for you

[jim campbell]

oh no rush heather,it is after all supposed to be fun,just a reminder that were out here to offer assistance if you need it.............

[jim campbell]

and here it is..middle atlantic products........riverdale nj.....harvey il............simi valley ca...........for rack stuff

[hjames]

I finally got my biAmp issues resolved ... mostly.
After the great experience with the Zilch mobil biAmp lab and medicine show ... I got a JBL 552 active crossover (to match the one he'd leant me). I already had a Crown D-75 for the hi- split so I bought a JBL 6260 amp via ebay but it was all burned up inside (and I'm still fighting that through VISA).

A week later a JBL 6230 I bought arrived - DOA! I tracked through it with a fluke and found a dead wirewound fuse - replaced that, and its a sweet piece of gear.

I still wanted a JBL 6260 - so after watching ebay, a few weeks ago I found another and won the auction! Last Tuesday he emailed me and said he'd just shipped it - so I figured it would be here for the weekend -(it was only coming from Philly) ... I just had to wait for shipping.

I had built a short rack for all of this - Jim and Robbh gave me tips on perf panels so I got them via PartsExpress a week or so back. So, I put the coolest running piece (crossover) near the bottom), a blank panel, then the low power 6230, then the other blank, then the D-75. I had the low end running on the 6230 and the highsplit on the D-75 - until I sold it!

Last Saturday morning I put some spare gear for sale here. When I got back from the Farmer's Market a bit later I had a PM from the mysterious Don Mascali (actually a very nice guy!) who came out, listened to it, and took all that gear off my hands for a fair price. Even the Crown D-75 ... except ... my 6260 Amp didn't come in the Saturday mail! OMG - not enough amps!

So I rebuilt the minirack. Thank goodness for banana jacks! I swapped lines and put the 6230 on the high split. I have a Citation 22 (bridged) on my B-380 for Subwoofer duties, so I pulled it and temporarily put it in place for the low-split feeding the 2234s in the 4341s. And we enjoyed movies and the latest Doctor Who episode "Don't Blink" over the weekend (one of the best yet!).

The JBL 6260 amp arrived yesterday Parcel Post from Bethlehem PA, so I pulled the Citation and put it on the top rack position. Darned rack is over 100 lbs now - but hopefully I won't have to move it very often! Plus, I like the idea of JBL electronics feeding JBL Monitors ... and sounds good!

Like Bo says, I think I have some work to do to fine tune everything - but I'm still waiting on a pair of 2122s and some possible work on the LPads for the 2405s ...

meanwhile we're having a great time just enjoying the sound!

[Titanium Dome]

Hey, Heather, that's a nice rack you've got there. You've done a good job.


I tried like six different ways to write that and each one was more tortured than the one before it, so finally I gave up and just wrote what I meant. No offense intended and no innuendo.

[hjames]

The reconed 2122s arrived from NY today - so I pulled the 2123Hs and put the 2122s in the cabinet ...

Pair of side-by side images (2123 is on the right)

[Ian Mackenzie]

Heather ,

Enjoy the 2122's.

Is that the handle of your Vacume cleaner I see in for foreground?:homer:

Ian

[hjames]

Heather ,

Enjoy the 2122's.

Is that the handle of your Vacume cleaner I see in for foreground?:homer:

Ian

Is that a dagger I see before me?

Not a vacuum, but a Black & Decker LED flashlight!

Now I'll answer the indirect question: - The pale blue carpet is stained (previous owner of the house). It looks much worse under xenon camera flash than it does in normal lighting. Actually you can barely see it under sunlight or normal lamps.
I have run a steam cleaner over it a number of times but although it reduces the stain, it never fully goes away. I want to rip up the old dirty carpet and replace it with wood flooring - but Emma wants to hold off (!).
Eventually, I will win ... but its a waiting game ...

[John]

Is that a dagger I see before me?

Not a vacuum, but a flashlight!

Now I'll answer the indirect question: - The pale blue carpet is stained (previous owner of the house). It looks much worse under xenon camera flash than it does in normal lighting. Actually you can barely see it under sunlight or normal lamps.
I have run a steam cleaner over it a number of times but although it reduces the stain, it never fully goes away. I want to rip up the old dirty carpet and replace it with wood flooring - but Emma wants to hold off (!).
Eventually, I will win ... but its a waiting game ...


This thread seems to be dog-tracking!!!

Maybe time to get some 4350,s:applaud:

[hjames]

This thread seems to be dog-tracking!!!

Maybe time to get some 4350,s:applaud:

No room, no room!
I barely fit what we have! (New photo justified due to installation of 2122s 10 inchers!) ...
4350s won't go ... Unless I stand them on end ... maybe ...

(Note big vinyl in room from weekend: Jimmie Spheeris, Hawkwind (glared out) & Captain Lockheed)

[Ian Mackenzie]

!

Now I'll answer the indirect question: - The pale blue carpet is stained (previous owner of the house). It looks much worse under xenon camera flash than it does in normal lighting. Actually you can barely see it under sunlight or normal lamps.
..

Heather,

No indirect Question..I never noticed!

[SEAWOLF97]

. And we enjoyed movies and the latest Doctor Who episode "Don't Blink" over the weekend (one of the best yet!)

Heather -

I had not seen Dr. Who for 30 years....tonite PBS ran an epsidode called ""The End of the World"

(The Doctor takes Rose on her first voyage through time to witness the death of Earth.)

While somewhat insane ...it sure was entertaining...hope they run more:bouncy:

[hjames]

Heather -

I had not seen Dr. Who for 30 years....tonite PBS ran an epsidode called ""The End of the World"

(The Doctor takes Rose on her first voyage through time to witness the death of Earth.)

While somewhat insane ...it sure was entertaining...hope they run more:bouncy:

Everyone remembers Tom Baker's Doctor Who from the 70s - tall guy with a funny grin, curly hair and the long scarf. Overly long stories with lots of running around. Rubber suit monsters and cheap special effects.

Every so often the Doctor is wounded/injured and reboots (regenerates) into a new actor. Tom Baker was the 4th Doctor. Budgets got tight and the show finally ended in the 80s with the 7th Doctor. There was a made for TV movie in the 90s but it didn't catch on

This new series has been a lot different. Good scripts (mostly), nicely shot and good cgi/special effects work. Modern TV well done, basically.
Its one of the top 7 shows on the BBC right now ... huge audience.

The 1st new season has the 9th Doctor Who, played by Christopher Eccleston. I really got to like him (look up some of his other stuff - like "Shallow Grave" with Ewan McGregor, or "Second Coming"). He even did a small part on the NBC show "Heroes" last season.

The End of the World was the 2nd show of the first new season - the BBC just finished airing the 3rd season of the new series. SciFi channel runs them on Friday night - but they are running the 3rd season now.

[richluvsound]

Heather,
The christmas special see's the debut of Kylie Minouge as the Doctor's side kick. That will get some serious ratings.:D
Rich,

[hjames]

Heather,
The Christmas special see's the debut of Kylie Minouge as the Doctor's side kick. That will get some serious ratings.:D
Rich,

Sure - I was trying not to dump spoilers for the US viewers ...
Seawoff had only seen Episode 27-02 ... the second of the Eccleston-Rose episodes, too early to tell 'im that Doctor was history, replaced by young Casanova (grin), and Rose was left behind and replaced by a (medical) Doctor in training ...
besides, the Season 3 finale is why I hunted down Life on Mars, to see what else that John Simm guy had done (we are halfway through LOM season 2 ... and think that series was Brilliant!).

But I heard Kylie was a singer on the Ship (no spoilers), not a formal "companion" - anyway, Freyma is off to Torchwood (we don't get that one stateside - tho I've enjoyed most of them, but I guess shagging aliens is too much for fussy Americans). But John Barrowman (Cap'n Jack) is a hoot!

[Ian Mackenzie]

Dr Who.

Its on 7.30 pm Saturdays dow here. Crazy time slot.

[SEAWOLF97]

Seawoff had only seen Episode 27-02 ... the second of the Eccleston-Rose episodes, too early to tell 'im that Doctor was history, replaced by young Casanova (grin), and Rose was left behind and replaced by a (medical) Doctor in training !

AW ...I kinda liked Rose, and this DrWho is pretty good too..........the "tree woman" was well done also

geeze ..great scheduling for a geezer who craps out at 9:30

Sunday

04:00am
10 KOPB
The End of the World (http://tv.yahoo.com/doctor-who/show/the-end-of-the-world/episode/;_ylt=AqnDBqmzLimIwOCL6WJadMyfp4h4)

The Doctor takes Rose on her first voyage through time to witness the death of Earth.
The Doctor takes Rose on her first voyage through time to witness the death of Earth.
05:00pm

10 KOPB
The End of the World (http://tv.yahoo.com/doctor-who/show/the-end-of-the-world/episode/;_ylt=As62HJfvEZcfh26KB9ZQyjqfp4h4)Thursday


10:00pm
10 KOPB
The Unquiet Dead (http://tv.yahoo.com/doctor-who/show/the-unquiet-dead/episode/17130;_ylt=AkAX1u1YLIVsz84NVzouJIufp4h4)

The Doctor and Rose return to 1869, where Charles Dickens joins them in the battle against the Gelth…more (http://tv.yahoo.com/doctor-who/show/the-unquiet-dead/episode/17130;_ylt=AlPH0VrFIzbU2zrNnb1rChifp4h4)
The Doctor and Rose return to 1869, where Charles Dickens joins them in the battle against the Gelth.

[hjames]

Next step in the 4341 progress. - I had gotten a pair of 2231s reconed as 2235s from Chas about 6 months back (I traded a pair of 2123s for them) - they HAD been working as the woofs in my L200+ (3ways), over the long weekend I had a chance to pull the 2234s from the 4341s and swap them for the 2235s from Chas.
The plan was to get all the right drivers into the 4341s - and this should do it!

After restacking all the gear on the downstairs speakers, we had some listening tests - Emma says its the rare case where both sets of speakers sound better afterwards!

- I'm thinking crossover upgrades and grills will be the next project, later this year ...

Comparison shot of the two different styles of 15s ...
Left: 2231A reconed as 2235, (now in the 4341 Monitor)
Right: 2234H (pulled from the 4341, now in the L200 3-way)

Photos shot with new Canon G9, courtesy of my honey for m'birthday!

[spwal]

- I'm thinking crossover upgrades and grills will be the next project, later this year ...



I will let you know how it goes... ;)

[Fred Sanford]

Next step in the 4341 progress. -

Comparison shot of the two different styles of 15s ...
Left: 2231A reconed as 2235, (now in the 4341 Monitor)
Right: 2234H (pulled from the 4341, now in the L200 3-way)

Photos shot with new Canon G9, courtesy of my honey for m'birthday!

Happy birthday :applaud:, and thanks for the pics & descriptions. Making 2235s of the 2231s in my 4333As is definitely on the to-do list, once cash starts to flow again.

je

[hjames]

I pulled the 2235s and swapped the 2234s into the L200+ (3ways) & put the 2235s into the 4341s
After restacking all the gear on the downstairs speakers, we had some listening tests - Emma says its the rare case where both sets of speakers sound better afterwards!


And while looking through my old L200 from Aberdeen thread I found this (03-14-07):

Do 2234Hs play well a little higher? They're 2235H without the mass ring. Only used in 4435 monitors, but there's been plenty of discussion of them in the forums.

(Some stuff trimmed - H)

Of note: 2234H is the recommended replacement woofer for the original L200, which was crossed at 1200 Hz: http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical%20Sheet/L200A%20ts.pdf


Pretty on-the-money I'd say!

[John]

Pretty on-the-money I'd say!

Well yes and no!:blah:

[hjames]

After swapping woofers last week, I still had a 60 cycle hum. Now, I didn't expect the woofer change to fix that, but I had done a number of things before trying to cure it, but - that was when the biamp rack was on the right speaker.
I remember reading an earlier thread where Boputnam mentioned that system worked best when they were on a common power outlet. I'd been afraid to do that before, but yesterday while I was home for the ice storm, I swapped the amps left and right.

I ran a long sub input line to the right for the Citation 22 sub amp - I had moved the B380 to the right a few weeks back, so it makes sense having that amp near it now.

Biamp rack is now on the left speaker, just a short distance from the Front L, R preamp out ports that feet the 552. Hum was reduced but still there, so I followed a tip from Subwoof last time he was here and put a 3 wire to 2 wire AC adapter on the short orange grounded cord that powers the biamp rack, lifting the AC ground. That dropped the humm level further.

We played some CDs this morning and the hum is almost below threshold now, even with the amps cranked up. I did hear a bit more hum when watching a DVD today, but that may be a bit of ground spillage from the CATV - and I did order one of those screw on CATV isolation gadgets that looks like an RF attenuator from Parts Express ...

Excuse the picture - I'm still getting used to the camera ...

[opimax]

Heather,

I haven't followed this thread but just the last post. I have hum in my system. I know where it comes from. 2 connections, the SMS1 when powered off and with my current cable coax. I used to get it from my computer power supply until I did the 3>2 prong adapter trick also used it the SMS 1 which at least cuts it out when powered on.

I have a different cable on my cable box now which is the hum I hope. I am waiting for a friend to redo my original cable (had to cut the end off to pull through the floor) and borrowed another form a different unused location in the house. either way pull the cable no hum. It is also reduced with my panamax surge protector hook up for cable for now.

Steve V who has posted here in the past and donator of your 60t grills may be coming over in the near future to look for the lost bass in my house along w/my other friend Wifredo. I will let you know more when I do in case you are interested. Might be interesting and probably fun

Mark

[hjames]

Link to parts Express CATV hum bucker -

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=180-075

It can't hurt, and its less than $10, under $20 shipped!

[Mr. Widget]

It can't hurt, and its less than $10, under $20 shipped!Actually it might hurt... higher frequencies and some digital cable channels will not pass through inexpensive transformers.


We use the Jensen Isomax VRD-1FF. It costs about $60 but it is of the highest quality and will pass higher frequency digital channels.


Widget

[Fred Sanford]

+1 on the ISOMAX products.

je

[opimax]

I am curious, would it fix a known bad cable. It wouldn't be worth it but still am curious

Thanks

Mark

[hjames]

What do you mean by "A known bad cable"?

If you just need a new fitting cut onto the end - I did CATV head-end work (big dish, fiber, AV racks & such) years ago for MoCo Cable, before it was ComCast. I still have crimpers and fittings and stuff, so it probably wouldn't take long to do a fitting.
I had no idea - remind me next time we get together and I'll bring stuff ...

I am curious, would it fix a known bad cable. It wouldn't be worth it but still am curious

Thanks

Mark

[opimax]

thanks Heather,

it is with w/one of the telephone/cable guys at work, taking his time :( but I would hope he can do it. I could drive out to Comcast and they would also do It I am sure.

Maybe I am wrong but I thought the hum is caused buy a short with metal shieldind to the actual center run, most likely at the end. the amount of hum depends on the angle of the cable at the connector so I thought it was more or less touching the 2 wires at the connector. I don't believe the one having a new end did this at all.

BUT that happened when I moved the equipment to the left of the fireplace. I originally left the first cable connected awhile when moved and don't remember having the issue.Then I cut the head off ran speaker wires in the old hole and grabbed a long run from hte now unused room upstairs and that is when I noticed it. The final point was the hum level would change when just moving the cable a little in the mess behind the equipment.

So the original question is would that device fix a bad cable? also if running through something similar such as the Panamax how much "choking" of signal can be made and still work well?

I am thinking ahead in case the it still hums w/the repaired cable

sorry to steal your thread , hope it helps your question

Mark

[hjames]

You problem could be from a bad piece of shield or foil. You are near a lot of DC TV transmitters, so you should have quad shield cable (4 layers of shielding - foil/braid/foil and another braid) to keep out stray signals from all the local to you TV and radio stations. The cable could have a bad or poorly made fitting, perhaps a staple in it somewhere, or even be crushed at some point.

Its hard to say absolutely - the main CATV trunks (underground or on poles) are tied to power supplies that put 60v AC on those trunks to power the line amplifier and keep the channels at the right levels. That power should get stripped off when it comes through the taps that pull of feeds for the individual homes in the system. They should also come through a ground block tied to a rod driven in the ground outside your home, but sometimes an outside ground isn't the same "ground" potential as your household wiring, and when they aren't the same, that difference could be heard as a hum.. If you unscrew the coax from your cable box, does the hum go completely away?

Its also possible that you have more than once source of hum ...

First step, like Bo said, is to make sure all of your AV gear is plugged into a power strip on the same wall socket. That was most of my problem. The outlet in the right side of the room (that ran my biamp rack) was a different circuit off the fusebox than the left outlet that ran the receiver, TIVO, TV and all the sources (CD, DVD, phono, etc). Once I put all of them on the same outlet, the hum level went down bigtime.

thanks Heather,

it is with w/one of the telephone/cable guys at work, taking his time :( but I would hope he can do it. I could drive out to Comcast and they would also do It I am sure.

Maybe I am wrong but I thought the hum is caused by a short with metal shield into the actual center run, most likely at the end. the amount of hum depends on the angle of the cable at the connector so I thought it was more or less touching the 2 wires at the connector. I don't believe the one having a new end did this at all.

BUT that happened when I moved the equipment to the left of the fireplace. I originally left the first cable connected awhile when moved and don't remember having the issue.Then I cut the head off ran speaker wires in the old hole and grabbed a long run from hte now unused room upstairs and that is when I noticed it. The final point was the hum level would change when just moving the cable a little in the mess behind the equipment.

So the original question is would that device fix a bad cable? also if running through something similar such as the Panamax how much "choking" of signal can be made and still work well?

I am thinking ahead in case the it still hums w/the repaired cable

sorry to steal your thread , hope it helps your question

Mark

[opimax]

all on 1 circuit, everything through the Panamax signal regenerator (fancy ?)

Current hum started w/move, dead silence til then after the other changes (3>2), actually surprised how quiet the system was. If I pull the tv input cable, can't tell it is on till hiss comes in at what would be unusable, ridiculous volume level w/signal, and not including fans (loud TV,computer remember?)

I have added the Wii but took it out for testing, no difference

Can't hear anything from my chair today, haven't put my ear near the speaker to test, ignoring till cable comes back anyway!

And changing a few connections, amps when i get them back from repair, hopefully soon.

Mark

[Mr. Widget]

Maybe I am wrong but I thought the hum is caused buy a short with metal shieldind to the actual center run...Yes. That would be wrong. Hum is caused by ground loops (improper grounding of your system) or it can be induced by having cheap cable or damaged cable. If you hear any change in hum due to physically moving the cable replace that cable.


Widget

[opimax]

And that is what I will do as soon as my friend has finished!!! but what is a "bad" cable compared to a good one? what exactly got damaged? I was shown by the cable guy how some of my earlier cables had gaps at the as the plastic was not fully seated against the end of the head but this one doesn't show that...

Heather its nice out, come by :) (don't forget your cable stuff though) a little Wii bowling for Emma? new old toys to look at and play

OK run out of bribes (none were that good i know)

Mark

[subwoof]

Since the CATV industry decided that aluminum was "good enough" for the shield, it stands to reason that after some amount of time corrosion will make itself known and cause a high junction resistance on one crimp / connection. AND the cheap foam insulation will compress with time and reduce the pressure on one side of the crimp.

NOW if this happens it forces a ground loop via the AC ground plug if both end terminations are to grounded items or in the case of a "floating" switching power supply chassis ( 90% of new video displays/ tv's ) you couple it through the noise caps.

And hum results.

Make sure ALL the F connectors are tight, crimps are secure and switch out suspect cables to see if the problem switches with it.

The other suggestions are ALL valid - it is usually more than one issue. I had a hum in the house that drove me nuts until I noticed one daughter moving her dresser upstairs and the hum changed *downstairs*

sub

[hjames]

After reading the Ashly XR1001 Crossover thread (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2316) from Bo and Mr Widget, (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2316)it sounded changing out my JBL UREI M552 active crossover for an Ashly XR1001 active crossover would be a worthwhile upgrade. I trcked them for a while on deBay, bid unsuccessfully on about 6 of them over the last few months, and about a week ago I had success and won one for a reasonable price. It arrived in the mail today, and was pretty much a drop in replacement. I did flip the polarity of the bass amp output (JBL 6260) as recommended in that thread. Emma and I are going to be rechecking all our music again, but from the initial test, it sounds like there is more definition and clarity to the sound now. The bass is definately firmer (if thats possible) and the high end has smoothed out the shrill edge somehow. I have more listening to do over the weekend, but it looks like the JBL/UREI M552 will be up for sale soon!

Thanks again everybody!

[johnaec]

...Ashly XR1001 active crossover...If you come across an Ashly XR4001, (especially the newer gray one), let me know. ('Still collecting the components for a 4-way system in progress...)

John

[sourceoneaudio]

Heather,
What did you pay for your x-over? Seems like a lot of fuss on bidding on 6 of them on e-bay when you can buy them new for $300.00. :blink:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=245-208

[hjames]

Heather,
What did you pay for your x-over? Seems like a lot of fuss on bidding on 6 of them on e-bay when you can buy them new for $300.00.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=245-208

not a lot of fuss at all - watch the sale, then snipe at the end and - know your limits.
Besides, you can actually get them new for around $240 if you look harder (google is your friend).

Of course, I paid much less ...

[richluvsound]

Heather ,

you could be losing up to 4 db of gain through those lenses . GIVE EM THE DUSTER treatment :D

Seriously, the system must be sounding sweet .

Happy Easter !

Rich

[boputnam]

I did flip the polarity of the bass amp output (JBL 6260) as recommended in that thread. ... The bass is definately firmer...I do wish Ashly had a polarity switch for the low-pass - would be handy.

I often run into Ashly crossovers, and not infrequently find that sub positioning in the hall has resulted in them being out-of-phase with the mains. Last night Smaart suggested this could be an issue, so on a hunch we stuck some Hosa GXX-195 (http://www.hosatech.com/hosa/products/GXX-195.html) adapters (swaps Pin2 and Pin3) on the LF outputs of the XR2001 and voilá - the null at crossover was gone and the overall response of the LF was much better behaved.

[Krunchy]

. I did flip the polarity of the bass amp output (JBL 6260) as recommended in that thread. Thanks again everybody!

Heather, Bo, was it the Low Pass or the High Pass that had to be switched? just want to clarify. Thanks!

Quote Ian...The thing to remember (and I sent an email to Rich about this ) is you must reverse the polarity of the high pass amp outputs going into the 4345 when you use LR 24 db slopes.

[hjames]

Heather, Bo, was it the Low Pass or the High Pass that had to be switched? just want to clarify. Thanks!

Quote Ian...The thing to remember (and I sent an email to Rich about this ) is you must reverse the polarity of the high pass amp outputs going into the 4345 when you use LR 24 db slopes.

Well, I flipped polarity on the low split output thats feeds my 15s and it sounded fine. (note the banana plus are in clear vinyl tubing for insulation). If you are talking about a strictly 2 channel system it shouldn't matter - as long as you have inverted polarity between the woofer with reference to the mid driver. But - in my room, its part of a multi-channel system, so I guess I need to go back and correct the woofer polarity, and invert the hi-split signal. Then check to see how it plays with everything else when playing movies in 5.1 mode.

Sounded great with music (2 ch, no subs) and for tonight's movie (Zefferelli's 1968 Romeo and Juliet - basically mono)

[Krunchy]

I was referring to a 2 channel system, I guess once you get into a 5 channel set up it probably gets a little trickier.
Like you I was very happy with the resulting sounds eminating from the speakers, kinda tough to go back to the old cross over after this.
Thank you Heather! Enjoy the movie.

[hjames]

Yeah, my system is evil (grin) ... I do double duty with it. Got a Harman Kardon receiver last year that I pretty much use as a preamp with remote control. Its can do 7.1 but I only use it in 5.1 mode for films and TV. Its got preamp level outs for all channels, but I just use the receiver's internal amps for Center and the 2 rear surrounds (again, TV and DVDs only). For CDs and vinyl the system is in standard 2 channel mode. Receiver's preamp outs for Front L & Front R feed into the crossover, then into power amps that feed the lo and hi side of the 4341s.

Piece of cake :)


The movie was great - this year is its 40th anniversary! Our Junior high school English class went on a field trip to see it when it first out. Hadn't seen it since. A real classic, still! (Netflix) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063518/)

I was referring to a 2 channel system, I guess once you get into a 5 channel set up it probably gets a little trickier.
Like you I was very happy with the resulting sounds eminating from the speakers, kinda tough to go back to the old cross over after this.
Thank you Heather! Enjoy the movie.

[boputnam]

Heather, Bo, was it the Low Pass or the High Pass that had to be switched? just want to clarify. Thanks!...Ian made a point about imposing the Linkwitz-Riley -24dB slope on the 43-series stock system, wrt the low-pass. I have not "tested" (measured) his point, but empircally it would seem valid.

Both the stock passive network and the active 5234a are -12dB slopes. Using an Ashly with it's -24dB L-R slopes should alone require a 180° shift in phase to maintain the JBL design polarity between the woof and the other tranducers.

[hjames]

Both the stock passive network and the active 5234a are -12dB slopes. Using an Ashly with it's -24dB L-R slopes should alone require a 180° shift in phase to maintain the JBL design polarity between the woof and the other tranducers.

But which amp output needs to be flipped - Low split or high split??

Or does this mean its finally time to find some gear (or find someone WITH gear) and sweep the system (!!?)

[Krunchy]

Or does this mean its finally time to find some gear (or find someone WITH gear) and sweep the system (!!?)
I like that idea better Heather :D

Thank you Bo! I myself flipped the high pass, and it seemed like there was a noticeable improvement in the sound, the lows & mids seemed more in sync & just generally sounded better. If one was not imposing the L.R. Slope this step of flipping/reversing the polarity would not be necessary? I also had the polarity reversed when I was playing with it yesterday and went into the Butterworth side and it also sounded quite nice, am I treading on thin ice here. The L.R. set up seemed to produce a bit more of a "rounded off" type of sound for me, whereas the Butterworth seemed a little brighter, very nice still. Both settings were very pleasing & neither setting produced any of the harsh/shrill tones I was getting on some recordings with the 5235.
Still had plenty of room to play with on the LF & HF outputs.
Its a great little unit Bo, Thanks again.

[Chas]

But which amp output needs to be flipped - Low split or high split??


Either one. Unless you are concerned about absolute polarity.

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue1/cjwoodeffect.htm

[boputnam]

But which amp output needs to be flipped - Low split or high split??But, I thought you had already done that...?

...I did flip the polarity of the bass amp output (JBL 6260) as recommended in that thread. ...The bass is definately firmerNo?

Heather, Bo, was it the Low Pass or the High Pass that had to be switched? just want to clarify. Thanks!Chas has it...

Either one. Unless you are concerned about absolute polarity.

Although I suppose in the case of the 43xx series, you'd do better to reverse the LF, since those woofers are working "backwards" afterall...
:)

[Krunchy]

Thanks again Bo!.

Interesting article there Chas, thank you. I guess absolute polarity is not the goal here. That being said and not to beat a dead horse, I did reverse the polarity of the Low pass amp (after returning the High Pass to non-reversed polarity), did this back and forth a couple of times in fact. I would be hard pressed to tell you wether there was a noticeable difference in lows & highs in either scenario, they both sounded good. But, reversing one or the other was infinitely better then not reversing the polarity of either amp at all :D And based on Bo's last post will opt for a reversed LF, who wants to be backwards...all the time ;)

Quote from article...
The best way to teach yourself—is to reverse all four (or eight) speaker wires, tediously back and forth, to learn the condition, then play it from there. Your rewards will more than compensate the effort, believe me! Remember, no one ever promised you that audio would be easy.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Yeah well as I have said many times before this who phase thingy is very easy to screw up:banghead:.

One point is that the 4343 active filter is different to the 4345 (as is the mid cone driver).

Specifically the 4343 active filter has -3 points spread butterworth 12 db filters at approximately 230 (Low pass) and 300 hertz (high pass) and each slope is -6 down at 300 and 230 hertz respectively. The woofer and mid are wired out of phase. JBL sorted this after measuring the actual acoustic output under controlled conditions.

The actual acoustic summation at the crossover point will depend on a bunch of physical and electro-accoustic factors common to the particular design. The location of your enclosures and your relative listening position will also have an effect. For example, the 4343 was often suspended or sofit mounted in the recording environment, not stuck on the lounge room floor in the corner.

If you are to use other active crossovers plan on doing some knob fiddling:p and have a nice analyser thingy handy and lots of time up your sleeve.

All said and done the Ashly is a blessing for those who want to play.

[spwal]

my marchand arrived -- not working :( need to send back to phil. in the meantime, couldnt stand the 6 month wait anymore and picked up this BBE thing from guitar center. hey it works, and i get to play around with levels and such.

system is finally working, since i embarked on the biamp journey 6 months ago as many of you know. still need a hefty low-end amp.

pics and story to follow when everything is set up for real.

[hjames]

Saw an Ad on ebay for an ACE-515 Adcom AC Enhancer - mumbo-jumbo name, but the description grabbed me ...
"This device is an AC expander/delay system for your audiophile equipment. There are 7 outlets on the rear panel. 4 of the outlets are labeled accessories and are switched with a 30 second delay on turn off. 2 of the outlets are labeled amplifiers and are switched with a 10 second delay on turn on. The other is an unswitched outlet. There is a heavy duty AC cord extruding from the rear panel for the main AC supply. THis gets plugged into the power mains. The other lighter duty AC line gets plugged into a switched outlet or similar to send a control signal to the entire unit. When you switch on your preamp it sends a signal out thru the ac line to this device to power on all of your other components. There is a switch on the front panel for main on and off. There are also 2 LED indicators on the fron panel for amplifiers and accessories. "

Okay, basically this thing has a "sensing" power cord that plugs in the switched outlet on my receiver, so when I power up the receiver (via remote), the Adcom power on my accessories (the Ashley crossover), then 10 seconds later power up the two JBL/UREI power amps. No thump!

When I power down the receiver, the Adcom powers down the 2 power amps, then, 30 seconds later, powers down the Ashley - no thump!

The ONLY problem is that its taller than the vent panels I had so had to pull the vent panels and tighten up the spacing to fit the Adcom in over the Ashley. Plus the Adcom is lacking rack mount ears ... (just $44 from the retailer!)

Fortunately the rack has never run hot, but nevertheless, I want to get a taller set of rack-rails and rebuild the minirack to get the spacing back where it was.



Yeah, my system is evil (grin) ... I do double duty with it. Got a Harman Kardon receiver last year that I pretty much use as a preamp with remote control. Its can do 7.1 but I only use it in 5.1 mode for films and TV. Its got preamp level outs for all channels, but I just use the receiver's internal amps for Center and the 2 rear surrounds (again, TV and DVDs only). For CDs and vinyl the system is in standard 2 channel mode. Receiver's preamp outs for Front L & Front R feed into the crossover, then into power amps that feed the lo and hi side of the 4341s.

Piece of cake :)

[johnaec]

Nice! 'Looks like you got it at a great deal, too! 'May loo