4430 Question

[JSF13]

:blink: Stupid question I know, but which is left and which is right? Or is it a matter of personal preference?

[grumpy]

:blink: Or is it a matter of personal preference?

Not stupid, but you answered your own question. I believe the recommendation starts something like "if they are relatively close together
put the horns on the outside, if farther apart..." ... or the other way 'round.

Your environment and preferences are undoubtedly not mine, so my
opinion is unimportant.

Just making sure that you get or have a mirror-image
pair would be my primary concern... -grumpy

[JSF13]

Thanks. I have a line on a pair that I'm waiting for more details on. I'm sure I'll be back with more questions.:)

[Chas]

Mine are set up to flank a 42" Panasonic plasma. They work best with the horns outside in this situation.

Welcome to the forum, nice to have another Torontonian.:)

[fotodan]

My setup is on both sides of a 63" big screen with the horns on the outside. 20' X 20' room, walk anywhere in the room and have perfect seperation and imaging. Of course mine are 4435's.:dont-know

[JSF13]

Welcome to the forum, nice to have another Torontonian.:)





Of course mine are 4435's.:dont-know

Thanks guys.Where you at Chas? I'm in North York.:)

4435's. I can only imagine.:bouncy:

[Chas]

I'll PM you.

[sourceoneaudio]

:blink: Stupid question I know, but which is left and which is right? Or is it a matter of personal preference?

Welcome to the forum. You might not have 4435's but yours are no slouch by any means. Your lucky to have them, they are hard to come especially if they are mint.
I would put the tweets on the outer side if it were me. But your ears will help you decide. Have fun moving them around if you decide to swap locations from left to right. (don't scratch them):p


J/S-S1A :D

[JSF13]

Well here they are.

http://www.soundbroker.com/dynImage/?listingPicid=8138&&cacheBreaker=1178660059
http://www.soundbroker.com/dynImage/?listingPicid=8139&&cacheBreaker=1178660059
http://www.soundbroker.com/dynImage/?listingPicid=8137&&cacheBreaker=1178660059

I'm going to see them this weekend.:applaud:I'm so excited.:bouncy:
Looks like one needs a new gasket, but we'll see what's what when I get there.

Keep you posted.

[fotodan]

Those look very nice, I bet you just cant wait. I love how there mounted into the walls on the first pic. Very nice..:applaud:

[Titanium Dome]

Those look very nice, though the horns have been rotated 90 degrees to accommodate the horizontal placement.

Has anyone here ever run them that way in a vertical orientation?

Probably you'll be turning the horns back to the correct orientation once you get them, unless you plan to keep them on their sides. In any event, you should be quite pleased with them. :)

[JSF13]

Probably you'll be turning the horns back to the correct orientation once you get them, unless you plan to keep them on their sides. In any event, you should be quite pleased with them. :)

Geez, yes I guess I will,lol.:o: Thanks. I guess I would have noticed that sooner or later. Is there a top and bottom looking at it from the back? I'm assuming the connectors will be on the bottom? Or is it only the horn that needs to be rotated and not the driver? Yes I got it.

[fotodan]

Geez, yes I guess I will,lol.:o: Thanks. I guess I would have noticed that sooner or later. Is there a top and bottom looking at it from the back? I'm assuming the connectors will be on the bottom?



Dont think there is a top or bottom, and the horns are 12.5" both ways, so you wont need to worry about the new mounting holes they made, either way you place the horn, the holes not being used will be covered.:thmbsup:

[JBLnsince1959]

Geez, yes I guess I will,lol.:o: Thanks. I guess I would have noticed that sooner or later. Is there a top and bottom looking at it from the back? I'm assuming the connectors will be on the bottom?


If you are talking about the horns, there are 6 bolts (3 top, 3 bottom) that screw in from the front and hold the horn in place( In this case they are on the left and right) . Just unscrew them, rotate the horn, place back against the front plate and screw them in with the screws on the top and bottom. simple....

hope that helps

I remember how excited I was when i went to go get my first 4430's

enjoy

[JBLnsince1959]

Dont think there is a top or bottom, and the horns are 12.5" both ways, so you wont need to worry about the new mounting holes they made, either way you place the horn, the holes not being used will be covered.:thmbsup:


we must have been writing at the same time...exactly

[fotodan]

we must have been writing at the same time...exactly

sometimes it happens that way ;)

[JSF13]

Thanks guys. Yes I am too excited right now. Can't think clearly, lol,

I'll calm down when I have them home safe and SOUND,lol, (groan,yeah I know)

[fotodan]

Thanks guys. Yes I am too excited right now. Can't think clearly, lol,:barf:

I'll calm down when I have them home safe and SOUND,lol, (groan,yeah I know)

Trust me, you have now entered a NEW world of music. You will not be able to wipe the grin off you face for a few weeks. :D

[JSF13]

Trust me, you have now entered a NEW world of music. You will not be able to wipe the grin off you face for a few weeks. :D

It's there already.:D:D

[sourceoneaudio]

They l@@k like they are in mint condition, very, very nice score. A+++++++++ on that one.

J/S-S1A

[JSF13]

Well I have to tell you, it's strange how things work out.I've been looking for a pair of 4430's for years but any I found were so far away that shipping just killed it for me. Anyway I put a wanted listing on Soundbroker, so long ago I can't even remember when. Forgot it was even there. Then I get an e-mail from them saying they've got a new listing.Yeah here we go again. Then I look at it and it's in Ontario.Whoah,a recording studio in Ontario,it's got to be close to Toronto,right. Well long story short these are 7 Kilometers( about 4 miles) from my house. :dancin:

[mech986]

Well I have to tell you, it's strange how things work out.I've been looking for a pair of 4430's for years but any I found were so far away that shipping just killed it for me. Anyway I put a wanted listing on Soundbroker, so long ago I can't even remember when. Forgot it was even there. Then I get an e-mail from them saying they've got a new listing.Yeah here we go again. Then I look at it and it's in Ontario.Whoah,a recording studio in Ontario,it's got to be close to Toronto,right. Well long story short these are 7 Kilometers( about 4 miles) from my house. :dancin:

Welcome JSF13,

That's a great story and speaks to how persistent JBL fans really are. Because I live in Los Angeles/Orange County, we have a lot of recording studios. big and small, and countless folks who bought JBL speakers over the decades. Yet, every time I go up to Hollywood or check out studios, I am amazed that many of them had or are still using JBL's.

IIRC all 4430/4435's were walnut veneered so there are no utility cabinets to worry about. However, because of the soffit mounting, there likely will be some type of mounting system that was used. Hopefully, it did not damage the wood or have to leave too many holes in them (ideally mounted with eyebolts from behind).

Be sure to ask them to VERY CAREFULLY take them down from their soffits. Help them carry them to avoid scratching the veneer. Also, be sure to check for the grilles, many have lost the grilles cause the woofers look so cool exposed. Oh, and here is where it really helps to ask - check if they have any spare or cycled out parts for them - extra 2235H woofers, 2425/26 drivers or diaphragms. Many studios would rotate out parts as they aged to keep the speakers fresh and then stored the used parts. You never know, and if they're selling you the speakers, the used parts aren't going to do them much good. You might just get some extras....

Congratulations!!! :applaud: :applaud:

Regards,

Bart

[JSF13]

Has anyone here ever run them that way in a vertical orientation




To tell you the truth they sound pretty good that way.Hard to imagine them sounding any better. Haven't been able to rotate them yet as for some reason when they reoriented them for sideways installation they bolted a flange or bracket to the driver on the inside and secured it to the side (top) of the enclosure.You can lift the horn up enough to see it inside. Haven't had time to correct it yet. Probably this weekend. Looks like they will need new surrounds soon but other than that and a few minor scratches they are in great shape and sound FANTASTIC!!.Bonus,the grills have never even been used.:D:D:D:D

[mech986]

Looks like they will need new surrounds soon but other than that and a few minor scratches they are in great shape and sound FANTASTIC!!.Bonus,the grills have never even been used.:D:D:D:D

HeHe, sounds like a great score and in beautiful condition too! Wow! When you have a chance, let us see those veneers and the grilles in all their glory!

Of course, after you can pull yourself away from the music :applaud: :applaud:

Regards,

Bart

[JSF13]

Hate to admit it but I still don't know how to upload photos.:banghead: I've got some I can e-mail if you want to see them or post them for me. I'm going to join photobucket or something similar this weekend and learn how to post pics.

[JSF13]

Well that wasn't so hard after all.:) These are exactly as I got them. Haven't started any touch up work yet.I did manage to get the horns reoriented.In the last pic you can see the holes that were drilled for the HF driver support I mentioned earlier. That raises another question which I will ask later.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x69/JSF13/4430001.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x69/JSF13/4430002.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x69/JSF13/4430003.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x69/JSF13/4430004.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x69/JSF13/4430005.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x69/JSF13/4430006.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x69/JSF13/4430007.jpg

[sourceoneaudio]

They look very nice! L@@ks like they do not have too many scuffs, very clean. Is that some Carver, and Yamaha I see in the background? Have fun with your new toys.

Jeff
J/S-S1A

[JSF13]

One more. Yes M80 and CT3 with Arcam CD 72T

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x69/JSF13/4430008.jpg

[mech986]

Looks great, those veneers seem to be pretty decent! Are those holes empty or filled in and only on one speaker? If open, they will affect the tuning ever so slightly. There have been some threads here on how to fill the holes in and then get them to look original.

Boy, the one woofer looks pretty good too. Do the surrounds have some microsplits as you suggested they'll need refoaming?

BTW, what kind of great deal did you get?

Regards,

Bart

[Titanium Dome]

I use a Carver CT-3 with my 4430s, too, along with a pair of bridged Soundcraftsmen A200 amps.

The horns look much shinier than in the original photos. Did you put something on them, or is it flash from the camera?

[JSF13]

Looks great, those veneers seem to be pretty decent! Are those holes empty or filled in and only on one speaker? If open, they will affect the tuning ever so slightly. There have been some threads here on how to fill the holes in and then get them to look original.

Boy, the one woofer looks pretty good too. Do the surrounds have some microsplits as you suggested they'll need refoaming?

BTW, what kind of great deal did you get?

Regards,

Bart

Maybe not the greatest deal as I went through a broker, but I paid $1300.00 even. no tax,no delivery,so I'm happy with that. Plus any repairs are minor and I can do myself. As far as the surrounds, one does have some microsplits but one of the members has advised me it's not recommended to get new surrounds b ut much better to get them reconed so I will probably wait and do that.

[JSF13]

I use a Carver CT-3 with my 4430s, too, along with a pair of bridged Soundcraftsmen A200 amps.

The horns look much shinier than in the original photos. Did you put something on them, or is it flash from the camera?

I had just finished rotating them and wiped them down with a damp rag.:)

[Earl K]

Very Nice JSF13 !

Are you able to tell us what studio freed these up ?

:)

[Titanium Dome]

Maybe not the greatest deal as I went through a broker, but I paid $1300.00 even. no tax,no delivery,so I'm happy with that. Plus any repairs are minor and I can do myself. As far as the surrounds, one does have some microsplits but one of the members has advised me it's not recommended to get new surrounds b ut much better to get them reconed so I will probably wait and do that.

If that's $1300 CDN, you did well. That's $1167 USD.

[JSF13]

Very Nice JSF13 !

Are you able to tell us what studio freed these up ?

:)

Inception Sound on Chesswood

[JSF13]

If that's $1300 CDN, you did well. That's $1167 USD.

No, that was US$.I dealt through Soundbroker.com in Las Vegas.

[Andyoz]

Did you know what "Inception Sounds" were replacing them with (out of interest).

[JSF13]

Did you know what "Inception Sounds" were replacing them with (out of interest).

A sub. They hardly used them as they did mostly near-field monitoring.They had Genelics and Yamaha (1000's I think) in that particular room and added a Genelic sub to bottom out the smaller monitors.

They had a much bigger studio next door but I didn't get to see what they were using as they were just starting a project.

[JSF13]

Alright here is my next question. I mentioned earlier that there was a bracket bolted to the HF driver that in turn was secured to the bottom side of the cabinet to support the driver in the sideways installation. It looked like that bracket might have originally supported the HF driver by attaching to a small block of wood directly under the driver in normal orientation. Is the HF driver normally supported in this fashion or is merely being bolted to the horn sufficient? I don't see any such bracket in the Technical Manual blow up.

Thanks
Joe

[grumpy]

$1300 is still a nice price, and yes, there is a wood/particle board structure
around the 242x driver.

4435 construction thread:
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2355

start around post #50...

-grumpy

[JSF13]

$1300 is still a nice price, and yes, there is a wood/particle board structure
around the 242x driver.

4435 construction thread:
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2355

start around post #50...

-grumpy

Thanks Grumpy. I'll study that. I guess the bottom line is the driver needs extra support.I think I can use the bracket that came with mine . Just have to remove the LF to get in there and fasten it securely.:)

[JSF13]

OK One last question for everybody while this thread is still near the top. How do you who have them position your 4430's? On the floor or stands? Level or tilted? toed in? how much? distance between centres. All info appreciated as I try various positions of my own.Thanks:):):)

[Zilch]

On floor, toed in 30°, horns outside, maybe 8' c/c of horns.

[JSF13]

I use a Carver CT-3 with my 4430s, too, along with a pair of bridged Soundcraftsmen A200 amps.



Nice. TD just curious, do you use the Sonic Holography feature?

[JSF13]

I know I said that would be my last question but I just realized what's been bothering me. As you can see from this picture they took the supporting frame off the bottom of the cabinets so they are not raised off the floor at all.What is the height of the frame?:(

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x69/JSF13/4430008.jpg

[Zilch]

~1.75" plus button glides.

Painted black.

[JSF13]

~1.75" plus button glides.

Painted black.

Thanks! :)

[JSF13]

Thought I'd show you a picture of the support bracket I mentioned earlier. The top bolts onto the driver and the the bottom fastens to a block of wood directly below. Anyone else seen these or is this a home made job?

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x69/JSF13/4430bracket001.jpg

[JBLnsince1959]

Hi:

Just back on the forum and saw your posts the from last few days..

1. yes, the compression driver needs a wooden support
2. The cabs, finish and horn look good so $1300 is a reasonable price..looks like a win win for everyone.

3. be sure to check the foams and all connections.



OK One last question for everybody while this thread is still near the top. How do you who have them position your 4430's? On the floor or stands? Level or tilted? toed in? how much? distance between centres. All info appreciated as I try various positions of my own.Thanks:):):)

Now lets get down to the REALLLL sh*t here. I'll write a little I learned over the years working with those puppies and hopefully what I have to write will help.

The 4430's are just about the most complicated speakers to get "right" ( in a home setting). Every speaker is really dependent on the room, but the 4430's are more so. Getting both the bass and the high refractions and reflections balanced can be difficult. Just depends. but I'll say expect some work..

Bottom-line is you'll have to try stuff for yourself. there is no single answer that will work for everyone. If you feel the need to rasie them or to change the tuning Giskard would be the most knowleadable person on the forum

Well, I have to go eat. When I get the time I'll post what I learned about the 4430's over the years. There's a lot of different opinions going around, some by people who never owned them, so I'll give my two cents when i get the time.

take care

[JSF13]

When I get the time I'll post what I learned about the 4430's over the years.

Thanks,looking forward to it.:thmbsup:

[JSF13]

Hi all. Another newbie question. In anticipation. Exactly what can one expect from reconing? Is it lower? Louder? Cleaner? Just what does one lose over the years and regain from reconing? Hard to believe these could sound any better.:D. I now have the HF driver secured and the bottom rails installed. Thanks for your help.:thmbsup: Now working on cosmetics. I'll post a couple of more pics soon.

[4313B]

Just what does one lose over the years and regain from reconing?Spider fatigue. It's real. Ignoring it and/or pretending it doesn't happen saves on the cost of recones. We've discussed this before.

Another one for the FAQ.

[spkrman57]

The 2235 uses a progressive spider that increases resistance to cone movement at higher excursions.

The spider helps keep the voice coil centered in the gap.

Reconing both drivers is a worthwhile venture that will keep you good for the next (approx) 12 - 15 yrs.

My 2 cents worth;)

Ron

[JSF13]

Another one for the FAQ.

Found no matches for recone, re-cone ,or spider fatigue under FAQ

[JSF13]

The 2235 uses a progressive spider that increases resistance to cone movement at higher excursions.

The spider helps keep the voice coil centered in the gap.

Reconing both drivers is a worthwhile venture that will keep you good for the next (approx) 12 - 15 yrs.

My 2 cents worth;)

Ron

Thanks Ron. Yes I am getting them done. Guess my question wasn't too clear. I was asking the question in anticipation of what results to expect.Maybe that is one of those questions that can't be answered.;)

[JBLnsince1959]

Thanks Ron. Yes I am getting them done. Guess my question wasn't too clear. I was asking the question in anticipation of what results to expect.Maybe that is one of those questions that can't be answered.;)

the purpose of a recone is to bring the driver back to it's original condition. What results you can expect ( or what difference you can hear) depends on what's wrong with it to begin with. Bottom-line is that it should sound better if the old one is worn out....

Not sure if i understand you completely....

[JSF13]

the purpose of a recone is to bring the driver back to it's original condition. What results you can expect ( or what difference you can hear) depends on what's wrong with it to begin with. Bottom-line is that it should sound better if the old one is worn out....

Not sure if i understand you completely....

Thanks JBL. Just thought somebody might have a before and after experience to share. I'll know soon enough. Probably best if we leave it at that. :)

[remusr]

JSF13: reconing - depends on why you are doing it of course.
If surrounds are shot then is obvious.
If they have been resurrounded already (non-JBL) or reconed with a non-JBL kit the changes I've seen with a JBL recone were a return to near original Fs, sensitivity parameters with a noticeable improvement in bass clarity and extension.
If surrounds are ok and the speaker tests in spec (Fs, sensitivity, etc) I think the change would be minimal except at higher excursions where the old spider & surround would tend to be stiffer or totally sacked and sound would not be as clean/free of "volume compression".
If surrounds are ok but the speaker parameters have changed over time then reconing with a JBL kit will return the sound to near-original. Alnico woofs will have lost some sensitivity unless recharged but the ferrites should be as-new. My old Alnico speakers have tested usually with higher Fs's on the order of 27Hz for a 136A and lower sensitivity like 91dB using Woofer Tester2. JBL recones (2235 kits) gave 20 Hz & 91-92 dB, made them sound much cleaner and a tighter more natural low-end. Old unreconed ferrites, 2245H & 2235H have had higher and lower Fs's but I cannot be sure they had not been messed with so no conclusions except a JBL kit normalizes things.
This is my experience regarding your question on sound change.
Roy

[JSF13]

... made them sound much cleaner and a tighter more natural low-end.

Thanks Roy. I've been advised these are all original and the surrounds are showing signs of packing it in so I am expecting something along the lines of what you describe. Thanks for the confirmation.:thmbsup:

Joe

[JSF13]

Ordered the kits today so should have them in for re-coning next week.:applaud:

[Chas]

Ordered the kits today so should have them in for re-coning next week.:applaud:


Who is doing the work for you?

[JSF13]

Hi Chas. I'm getting them done at Audio Operations. After listening to them for a couple of weeks now, and as pleased as I am, I have to admit the 2235's are sounding a little tired in spots. And the surrounds definitely need doing. While I have them apart is there any thing I should look for as far as the 2426's are concerned?

Tks.
Joe

[Chas]

Hi Chas. I'm getting them done at Audio Operations. After listening to them for a couple of weeks now, and as pleased as I am, I have to admit the 2235's are sounding a little tired in spots. And the surrounds definitely need doing. While I have them apart is there any thing I should look for as far as the 2426's are concerned?

Tks.
Joe

I suppose you could have the magnets recharged and the diaphragms replaced, if you wanted to go crazy. I haven't done any of mine and they seem fine, though.

There is no one in Canada that can recharge magnets in Canada that I know of anyhow.

[JSF13]

I suppose you could have the magnets recharged and the diaphragms replaced, if you wanted to go crazy. I haven't done any of mine and they seem fine, though.
off
There is no one in Canada that can recharge magnets in Canada that I know of anyhow.

No, I don't think that will be necessary,lol. ;)

[JSF13]

Couple of more pics showing the holes repaired and the bottom rails on.:)

Got a low battery warning on the camera so not too clear. But coming along.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x69/JSF13/4430-3001.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x69/JSF13/4430-3002.jpg