D130 / 075 / N2400 Custom Box Job

[rrwalkertr]

Hi guys, I am looking at making some boxes for these speakers my dad has passed down to me. I want your opinions on a couple of things. First, box design = good sound? Will this box sound good or will the top corners cause problems? Second, which colors would you guys suggest? I am leaning toward a dark grey with white covers, i think black wont show much of the detail of the box. I can adjust the box to a certain volume and tweak the port sizes also. I have seen so many different size boxes for this setup I dont know which one to use. I think I am close to the box volume that i have here but I really want someone to guide me to the best volume. This box as is has right at 6965 cubic inches = 4.03 cubic feet. With this volume what should the port diameter be and if needed the port length (if im to understand correctly, thats the length of the tube you put in the port hole?). I am building two boxes now that i will probably stack, and two more later when i get those speakers and i might arrange them all together. Anyway, here are some images of my 3d Cad work. If you guys want some cad done on your speaker designs, just let me know.

http://www.kontrolfreek.com/20.jpg

http://www.kontrolfreek.com/21.jpg

http://www.kontrolfreek.com/22.jpg

http://www.kontrolfreek.com/23.jpg

http://www.kontrolfreek.com/24.jpg

http://www.kontrolfreek.com/25.jpg

[John W]

Very nice cad work! :applaud: I like your box design, especially the way you’ve set up the angles around the tweeter to minimize baffle interference. After the training and experience you obviously have with this, how long does it take to put a drawing like this together?

Normally I’m all for working with the parts you have, but in this case I’d have to recommend against it. I’m sure the speakers would sound ok, but not excellent. You need a midrange. The D130s don’t go up high enough, or the 075s low enough. If the drivers have sentimental value, I’d restore the vintage cabinets to match the vintage sound, otherwise I think you’d do better to sell the originals and upgrade.

[rrwalkertr]

Thanks man. It took me only about 20 minutes to actually model the box and speakers. the one image that looks almost real took like 30 minutes to just render, all the other images only about 10 minutes to do all them. so i spent about an hour last night doing all that.

The speakers sound really good now, in the boxes they are in. I dont want to get rid of them, my dad bought these when he was a teenager. One day i will upgrade and build something new for those speakers, but for now, i really want to build a box that sounds good and showcases the tweeter more then anything, its a cool looking tweeter. From what you are saying, you think its the speaker combo more then the box design that wouldnt sound good? Thanks.

[Baron030]

It's a very interesting modern looking design.
You’re definitely making a visual design statement here.
I am going throwing this out as just an idea here.
Have you considered tilting the front face back slightly?
The JBL L300 would be an example of what I am suggesting.
Assuming that the 075s is going at about knee height above the floor, a slight upward tilt of the front panel would raise that driver's projected sweet spot up to ear levels height above the floor.
At one time, I used to sit on the floor, just to get my ears down to the same height as the 075s.
So, I know from experience that it will make a difference in how the 030 system sounds.

Baron030 :)

[rrwalkertr]

i do understand what you are saying about the tilt, however if i stack the speakers like shown, one will be facing the ground and the other ear level. i might try to figure out a design simular to this would fix that, thanks bud. What thickness mdf should i use for these boxes? i was thinking 5/8 or 3/4, thanks.

[rrwalkertr]

tilting the top plane for the tweet would be ok, but i really dont like the look now of the box, and when stacked you are screwed on the upper speaker. i might look into this more and see what i can come up with for a happy medium.

http://www.kontrolfreek.com/26.jpg

[glen]

tilting the top plane for the tweet.

I think I would go for a much smaller tilt back. More like the slight backwards tilt of a C50 Olympus baffle. Just enough so that when you're sitting 10-12 feet away the 075 tweeters wil be approximately aimed at your ear level.

cool looking design!:applaud:

[rrwalkertr]

yeah if i were to never stack these then a tilt would be nice, but once i get 4 boxes built, there is no telling how i will stack them, so i dont know if a tilt will be a good thing or not. im still thinking about a design that is more horizontal then vertical that would allow me to mount the 075 in different locations depending on how i stack them. i can make my ports the same size hole and maybe just move it around to fit how i stack these, not sure yet, still working on the details. thanks man

[Zilch]

...when stacked you are screwed on the upper speaker.You are screwed with stacking them anyway. What's the point? You're no longer stereo if they're playing two channels, and if it's just one, you've created phase interference between the two tweeters....

[hjames]

Very cool speaker design ...
You might not consider stacking them - some of the audio engineer types here (I mean the real gurus) say stacking similar speakers can muddy up the image. You know, the perceived placement of the instruments in a really good recording ...

But 4 of those speakers would make a real kickin' surround system!
Add a subwoofer off to the side - Hooah!

[Baron030]

What? Stacking Boxes? Just how many 030 systems are you planning on putting together? Is this for a home stereo application or massive a sound reinforcement system?
Now, this is getting very confusing. :confused:

My suggestion about tilting the front panel to something similar to the JBL L-300's is not exactly what I meant. Glen’s suggestion is what I really meant to say. The slight tilting of the front panel really shouldn’t be limited to just the 075 driver. With the N2400 crossover's point at somewhere up around 3KHz, the D130 becomes pretty beamy as well. So, tilting the D130 upwards a little bit wouldn't hurt.

As far as your question about MDF thickness, I would recommend 0.75" on all the sides and 1.5" on the front panel. The added thickness will also allow you to flush mount the D130. Since, you’re planning on using faceted sides in your design. I would strongly recommend using some reinforcing wood cleats on all the wood joints; otherwise they will be a source of vibration. Also, you will need to add braces on all of the surfaces. The "old school" method for this would be to add some 2" x 3"s or 2'x 4"s screwed and glued to all of the sides and back. Or you could get fancy and use "aviation style bracing" like what is found inside the new Everest DD66000.

Link: http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=12164&page=3

Baron030 :)

[Zilch]

... stacking similar speakers can muddy up the image.Not only the image:

See "2. Demonstration of Principle" here:

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/technote/fat_wht.pdf

[rrwalkertr]

this is for home use for now, but i am building a nice garage soon with a game room in it, pool table and so on. so when the pool table gets in i will be putting these in there. i know four of these will be loud, but as you all know, you dont have to turn the volume knob up hardly at all with this set of speakers like i would with the surround system i have. the reason i am planning on stacking is because i will have 4 of these, and dont have the room to spread them out everywhere. with just two i wont stack, with four i probably will. keep the comments rolling guys, i want the feedback, good and bad, thanks

[rrwalkertr]

man zilch, thats confusing lmao, any papers in laymans terms around hehehehe

[hjames]

The other thought would be - do you currently have parts enough to build 4 of these - because I believe those drivers have gotten kind of valuable - it may be expensive to get 2 075s and 2 D130 for a second pair of them if you only have a pair now ... (you can build crossovers)




this is for home use for now, but i am building a nice garage soon with a game room in it, pool table and so on. so when the pool table gets in i will be putting these in there. i know four of these will be loud, but as you all know, you dont have to turn the volume knob up hardly at all with this set of speakers like i would with the surround system i have. the reason i am planning on stacking is because i will have 4 of these, and dont have the room to spread them out everywhere. with just two i wont stack, with four i probably will. keep the comments rolling guys, i want the feedback, good and bad, thanks

[Zilch]

man zilch, thats confusing lmao, any papers in laymans terms around heheheheBottom line:




When two sound sources producing identical program are displaced relative to each other, they will combine to produce a unique interference pattern that depends on the observer's location. The interference pattern is a result of the different arrival times from the two sources.

In other words, it's a sonic trainwreck....

[rrwalkertr]

my dad bought 4 boxes housing 1 d130 and 1 075 in each alone with a n2400 in each when he was younger. He has had these ever since and took great care of them. he will be giving me the second pair sometime down the road, maybe when they build their new house and move. Then i will have 4 complete boxes each with a d130, 075 and n2400.

[rrwalkertr]

thanks zilch, what is a good distance for these speakers to be away from each other? like 3 to 6 feet?

The other question is this, should i build a box to house both d130s and just one 075? if there is something like that, that would help really enhance the sound here, let me know

[Zilch]

thanks zilch, what is a good distance for these speakers to be away from each other? like 3 to 6 feet?For stereo? It depends upon the space and listener distance. The 075 beams ~30°, so they'll likely have to be toed in, in any case. Certainly, your illustration of a horizontal configuration with the two tweeters in the center is also, well, "unworkable."


The other question is this, should i build a box to house both d130s and just one 075? if there is something like that, that would help really enhance the sound here, let me knowThere's ways to configure dual woofers, but 075 would be a bad choice for the HF. D130s might work in that configuration, but recognize you're dealing with what ultimately became a musical instrument transducer there. It needs a sub....

[rrwalkertr]

So should i sell one of these 075s and buy a different tweeter? i really dont want to sell any of them, i could always replace the tweets later. i guess what i have to keep in mind is i want to build a cool box for these, i know it might not be the best setup, but when i build this i want to make this setup sound the best. i am working on a couple of ideas right now, i will post images later on, thanks again. is it bad to put the d130s close to each other also?

[Zilch]

is it bad to put the d130s close to each other also?Recognize that the D130s are playing most of the midrange. 2400 Hz is a relatively high frequency, in terms of program content. You can't have them close together for stereo, no.

If you use two of them per channel, I'm saying there's ways to make a pair play together better than a single. Look at 4435 and the new Everest II, for example.

But that's not merely a matter of throwing them in a box together, nope.... :no:

[rrwalkertr]

ok thanks, i will look into that. i am sure i need baffles and all inside the box if i pair them right. i am going to try to keep from doing that, i just need to get a box design i like and add the tilt to the faces, cause i do agree i want the sound projected up. what i am doing is to get my angle, im figuring at 8 feet away the sound will be 3 to 4 foot off ground, is this a good point to aim at?

[Zilch]

what i am doing is to get my angle, im figuring at 8 feet away the sound will be 3 to 4 foot off ground, is this a good point to aim at?You're a mechanical engineer. You KNOW how to do that part.... :thmbsup:

[rrwalkertr]

oh yeah i know the angle no problem, but i am asking if i have 2 or 4 of these in a 10X20 room, what would be the best distance to aim at, i know it depends on where i position these, but i have no idea where that will be yet. i think 8 foot away and 3 to 4 up is pretty good guess

[Zilch]

For the billiard cave you have described, I'd be hanging them at the wall/ceiling junction, and designing accordingly.

Think upside-down L200s.... :yes:

[rrwalkertr]

i could do this, but wow thats a big box to hang in corner isnt it? i will work on a disign for corner mounting and let you all give me some tips on it, thanks.

[Zilch]

I didn't mean to imply corner/ceiling junction, but since you'll need toe-in anyway, that's probably not a bad idea for additional bass reinforcement. Calculate your angles to the target listening area. I'd use 30° conical as nominal dispersion.

Here's your HF beamwidth specs:

http://www.jblpro.com/pages/pub/components/2402.pdf

[rrwalkertr]

hey guys, when i opened up the cover of the n2400, there are two coil looking things, those are the l pads? and there are two "needles" that run along them. i cant get to the one thats in the center with a pencil eraser, any suggestions? thanks.

[hjames]

hey guys, when i opened up the cover of the n2400, there are two coil looking things, those are the l pads? and there are two "needles" that run along them. i cant get to the one thats in the center with a pencil eraser, any suggestions? thanks.

There should be a number of different kind of parts in the crossover, tho they used to fill them with something like beeswax to preserve and protect them.

There may be coils (inductors) resistors (the white boxy things in my photo),
capacitors (big or smaller cylinders yellow and black plastic in mine, often a brown paper looking in older crossovers).
The L pads are like a round box with a shaft coming out of the top. Looks like a volume control, if you know what that looks like.

[rrwalkertr]

Here are some pictures of the crossover that needs repairing. you can see the two coils im talking about here, i cant get to the internal one to clean it. Someone suggested me cleaning it with a spray cleaner / lub lps 1 or something like that. what do you guys think, thanks.

http://www.kontrolfreek.com/crossover_internal1.jpg

http://www.kontrolfreek.com/crossover_internal2.jpg

[rrwalkertr]

ive decided to go back to my original design that i posted. i will not stack these tho. for the angle, i will make some cool legs for underneath them to give the angle i want. thanks i will keep you all posted. do any of you have experience with bondo and mdf wood? if so holler, i want to know which bondo is the best for filling craks and stuff in wood, thanks.

[rrwalkertr]

hey guys, i want to go old school with my stereo that is going to be pushing these speakers. my problem is i dont know a whole lot about old school stereos. i have a realistic reciever that i dont like much, so i might get a used reciever somewhere, any suggestions? (not to expensive) Also, i want a good amp for these speakers, nothing real powerful but something to really bring out their beautiful sound, any suggestions here also, thanks.

[JBLnsince1959]

hey guys, i want to go old school with my stereo that is going to be pushing these speakers. my problem is i dont know a whole lot about old school stereos. i have a realistic reciever that i dont like much, so i might get a used reciever somewhere, any suggestions? (not to expensive) Also, i want a good amp for these speakers, nothing real powerful but something to really bring out their beautiful sound, any suggestions here also, thanks.

try an older marantz reciever( 70's ) .. or older MAC ( 70's), should sound nice

[hjames]

try an older marantz reciever( 70's ) .. or older MAC ( 70's), should sound nice

he said not too expensive - that probably shuts out anything by Mac, right?

[rrwalkertr]

ive been looking at Marrantz and wow, those are some nice systems. I do have a tech question for you guys. From reading here, the D130 and 075 speakers are 16 ohm regardless of the fact they say 8 ohm on the speaker. So the question is this, alot of the older recievers say to run on 16 ohm speakers only or 8 ohm, or suggest you do this. So, if i run these on an 8ohm amp set up, will it hurt them? Im really confused on this, tanks.

[Baron030]

Hi rrwalkertr
Well, I don't know exactly what you mean by old school and your question could fall under the “Lansing Related Gear” forums. But, I ran my old 030 system with a variety of amplifiers over the years. So, I can only pass along my own experiences. My first amp was an EICO tube amp, with about 14 watt per channel, and boy did it suck. Second attempt was a Kenwood solid state amp with 40 watts per channel, it was better. But, I still felt the system was under powered. Then I tried a Crown Power Tech1 with 220 watts per channel, it sounded great, except for the loud fan noise. Next, I tried a Crown K1, in a way this is over kill. But, the K1 sounded really great. Last fall, I tried two crown D-75a in bridged mono mode, that’s 110 watts per channel. And I would have to say that two D-75A amps sounded the best.
But, I know that two Crown D-75A amps are way out of your budget. So, I what I would like to recommend is the same amplifier that my nephew is currently using with my old 030 system. Look into a Yamaha RX-797 receiver, it got about 100 watts of clean power per channel and that should do you well.
Oh, and just to clear up any confusion with any of the LH members that follow my postings. My nephew got my old 030 systems as a Christmas present last year.
Baron030 :)

[JBLnsince1959]

he said not too expensive - that probably shuts out anything by Mac, right?

depends on your definition of expense really..you can get a really good older 70's Mac receiver for around $400 to $800, or a 70's Marantz for around $200 to $500

I personally don't consider $400 to $800 expensive, BUT it ain't cheap either..

the Yamaha RX-797 receiver is nice also.....

best ask the old famous question.....How much are you willing to pay????

good luck in whatever you get....

[rrwalkertr]

well, when i decide to buy i wont mind spending a couple of hundred bucks for a good reciever. for now i have a realistic sta-100 thats not bad, so i might work on buying an amp first, and see how it goes from there, but i do want somewhat matching components so i can build a custom rack to hold them, thanks guys.

[rrwalkertr]

man its been a while. ive been so busy jeeze. i am about to get the wood for the boxes routed so all i have to do is brace and build. still finalizing the design but will post pics here when done. thanks for all the tips fellas and gals