PDA

View Full Version : Tad 4002



soundmanshorty
05-12-2003, 10:24 PM
has anyone used these on JBL 2395 36 in lens horn

MikeM
05-13-2003, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by soundmanshorty
has anyone used these on JBL 2395 36 in lens horn Im sure they would be GREAT! Dont think get them

Oldmics
05-14-2003, 05:38 PM
Yes I have.Before commenting on the sound quality,I would need to ask you what is your intended application for this combination?Sounds like a pro sound reinforcement application???? I will say that this is NOT a good combination for indoor HI-FI listening pleasure as it would have to be played stupidly loud for full enjoyment.Let me know,Best regards, Oldmics

scott fitlin
05-14-2003, 06:38 PM
They are going on 2395 lenses in a club called Stereo in Montreal!

soundmanshorty
05-15-2003, 12:10 AM
These are being used in a club called Stereo in montreal there are QTY 6 -16 ohm of them goin in there powered by Bryston 3B amps with modified Bryston 10B x-overs (an all analog system by the way), and in the next few months QTY 12- TAD 1201 will be goin in for low mid in Altec style front loaded horns they wil be powered by BGW GTB`S or BGW 750G`s. Unfortunatly i have to work with these Gauss 15s wish i could fit TAD 1603s in these JBL DBL 15 scoops oh well in the next system it will be all TAD.
www.systemsbyshorty.com

Oldmics
05-15-2003, 08:56 PM
Club application -Huh!!! Well,My personal opinion is that the T.A.D.s will not be as appreciated as they should be by the average club going patron.Since your question was about the 2395 slant plate flairs,let me offer you a rundown of my horn preferences for T.A.D.s.First and a winner by a longshot are the Westlake (manufactored by T.A.D. for Westlake) wooden diffraction flairs.These would be very similar to the JBL 2397 diffraction flairs except the Westlakes are made of mahogany.I have a pair that were scavenged from "The Record Plants" first mobile recording truck and they are hands down the smoothest most accurate sounding hi freq devices that I have ever heard in my life.Many other professionals that hear these things also agree.Second choice would be T.A.D.s TH-4001 Stabilized Dispersion wooden flair.Not quite as controled a sound to my ears as the Westlakes but we are really being nit-picky here.Coming in at # 3 would be a tie between the JBL 2397 and the old Northwest Sound "weathervane" 90 degree fiberglass flair.Finally your choice of the 2395 as 4th place.It really depends on the application.I would really be concerned about the "all analog" route that you are taking.I know that the Bryston amps are non-forgiving and that would concern me in the analog signal path.I would recomend digital limiting if only to save the T.A.D.s from an early death due to clipping of the Brystons.Also stick with the T.A.D. diaphragms as opposed to other replacement diaphragms for the best sound quality.As for the scoops and the T.A.D. speakers,invest in a router. Trust me you can make em fit!Best regards,Oldmics

Mr. Widget
05-16-2003, 01:48 AM
I am surprised that you can hear a difference between the Westlake horn and the 2397. I was under the impression that the Westlake was a copy of the 2397 with the outer edge changed to improve the low end and change it's appearance. Since they are not usually crossed over at the low end of their range (800 Hz) I would think they should sound very similar.

Have you compared them directly with the same drivers?

I am very interested as I am planning on copying my 2397s out of a hardwood and I was debating on either adding the Westlake style bevel or following the JBL recommendation and extending the lip in a cylindrical fashion.

I have not seen a Westlake mid horn out of it's enclosure, how does their throat adapter compare with that of the JBL?

Oldmics
05-16-2003, 06:18 AM
Hello Mr Widget,Yes my ears can tell the difference between the Westlakes and the JBL 2397.The comparison was made using the same T.A.D. drivers,so there was no difference in driver or diaphragm quality control.I was not aware of the bevel edged difference information that you mention.Seems likely to me that that information would be correct.Since the Westlakes are used for midfield monitoring applications and the 2397 used as a long throw applications the beveled edge would make the difference between those two uses along with changing the low freq response.I no longer have my 2397s to do a visual comparision.I parted with them and kept the Northwest units since they sounded identical.Your choice of construction would apply as to which application you are listening for.I suspect that you are going for midfield use.The Westlake horns are of stout construction in comparision to the 2397. A lot more lumber is used on the construction of the Westlakes to make a thicker unit when compared to the JBL.I can send you some pictures of my Westlakes if you like.The throat adaptors used on my particular units is the JBL 2328.Thats what came mounted to them directly out of the truck.I do not know what (if any other) throat adaptors are used to mount drivers to the Westlake horn flairs.The T.A.D. horns are a direct mount to the driver so no throat adaptor is required.If you are gonna whittle a pair of these babies may I suggest the use of mandingo material.Nothing like a pair of purple horns to get some attention.Best regards,Oldmics

Earl K
05-16-2003, 09:07 AM
Hi Oldmics

Which particular model of Northwest horn are you referring to ?

- the injection moulded , model 340 ( @ 8.25"h x 23"w with 3 throat vanes ) or the larger model 350 ( I think with 5 vanes ) . I own 340s' and have a cut sheet somewhere for the larger fiberglassed model . I bought a batch back in the mid eighties from Northwest before they were bought out by Maryland Sound .

- in my small living room , their pattern is too wide to properly audition they're imaging traits. Right now, a pair occupies some space on a coffee-table waiting to be swapped back into my ongoing project.

regards <. Earl K

sa660
05-16-2003, 10:05 AM
I started A thread on the 2397 horns in the technical forum
I am very keen on reproducing the Westlake tower with 2235 +2397 and 2403 (if needed)
I have a pair of 2450J. I would like to know if the frequency response of the 2450J couple to the the 2397. According to the Data sheet tested with the 2440 the frequency goes up to 12Khz. But I would guess that this limitation is due to the 2440 driver not the 2397horn.

Same as Widget I would add the bezel top and bottom for midfield application.
Can you please comment?

Oldmics
05-16-2003, 02:30 PM
Wow,This post gets deeper and deeper.To Earl K,the Northwest flairs that I am referring to are 7.250" X 23" with 3 vanes.These units that I have display a 302 in white grease pencil on them.Humm more Northwest horn mysterys!! I also have one specimen of the same demonsion flair that do not have the vanes in the throat.This single unit displays no part # and does not sound nearly as good as the units with the vanes in the throat area when tested with the T.A.D. driver.I was also not aware of any other sized Northwest horn flairs other than the two different styles that I own, but I am certainly not a Northwest expert.I also acquired these horns from Maryland Sound years ago since they are almost in my backyard.I also agree with you about the imaging.Both the 2397 and the Northwest require a large listening field to audition.I should have quantified my preferences with the statement that although the 2397 and the Northwest units that I have (302s???) sound identical to me,they are different in there propogation thruout the listening field.My reference was strictly about frequency response and not about throw chactoristics regarding all of the horns that I made statements about.Propogation requirements are all about application.Sorry for any confusion.To sa660,again in terms of discussion regarding frequency response only,the 2450 will go much higher due to the diaphragm material used.I would use the 2450 as a mid application on the beveled edge units for nice midfield listening application.The choice for upper octive reproduction still needs to be addressed.I don"t want to get off the JBL forum about blistering hi freqs but I would LOVE to hear the T.A.D. ET-703 or the Tannoy super tweeter before I settled on upper octive hardware purchases.I also wish that I had wav. files of this stuff to back up my opinions.Oh well, time marchs on!Best regards and happy listening , Oldmics

scott fitlin
05-16-2003, 06:54 PM
actually if your system, club, consumer, or pro reinforcement is of HIGH quality they can hear the difference.

Stereo is not your average Red Onion type dance club! This is along the lines of the legendary NYC club Paradise garage! And you would be surprised at how many people NOTICE how good something sounds when they actually hear something that sounds good! Even if your not into audio, the thing about high quality compression drivers properly powered and operated is you DO notice the sound is so smooth an clear yet it doesnt hurt.

Running the Bryston 3B on six horns with either TAD or JBL drivers will give enough level without approaching clip! For the TAD drivers it is a 6 ohm load and the Bryston can deliver 180w per channel at this impedance! JBL drivers would enjoy this just as well. But alas, the JBL 2441 isnt made anymore! That just happens to be the driver we like!

As for analog processing he will be using extremely high quality analog xovers from Bryston. I have used these myself and would be HARD pressed to find a better product out there. very reliable, very accurate, very ruggedly built, very excellent sonic quality. And very 20 year warranty!!!! Now i have also used DSP processors, and even though the digital xovers have many features they ( IMHO ) lack the most important point of all. They dont sound good enough! The conversion process still isnt up to snuff, and really good analog xovers sound better still, at this point in time! this doesnt mean that in the future they will not perfect digital audio, but it aint there yet.

Bernard Wolf
05-20-2003, 06:50 PM
Hi Scott -- were in Montreal is this club and when is it opening ? As I do live here,,, there ????:confused: ...in Montreal..I sure would like to check it out .

Bernard

scott fitlin
05-20-2003, 07:29 PM
After hours club already open! They have been there for a while, maybe 5 years. Stereo.

Bernard Wolf
05-21-2003, 05:58 AM
I am definately getting old and out of touch :rolleyes: After hours ? Here in Montreal that means after 3:00 AM........HHmmmmm,,may not make it after all :o

Bernard

GordonW
05-21-2003, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by Oldmics
(snip)

I don"t want to get off the JBL forum about blistering hi freqs but I would LOVE to hear the T.A.D. ET-703 or the Tannoy super tweeter before I settled on upper octive hardware purchases.I also wish that I had wav. files of this stuff to back up my opinions.Oh well, time marchs on!Best regards and happy listening , Oldmics

I haven't heard the TAD in question, but I work at a Tannoy dealer, and I HAVE heard the Tannoy supertweeter, mated with the Saturn 10 and D700 (both of which have the traditional-style dual-concentric with the tulip-horn in the bass driver). Lemme say, its effect is subtle, but important- it opened the soundstage RIGHT UP, even wider than normal for the Saturns (which is kinda amazing, since they can "place a double bass back in the left rear corner, outside the speakers" better than most already). Also, it seemed to make the sound more "coherent" overall, which is also amazing, since that is ANOTHER thing the speakers in question already do very well. Definitely an improvement. Whether they're worth $1000 a pair to an individual user, well, that's a personal judgement... but if you use them to make a $5000 or $10000 speaker better, then, well...

I would love to hear what these could do, with say, a pair of JBL speakers using the LE20, 25 or 26 cone tweeter, or with a 175-based system... if we get another pair of supertweeters, I'm gonna hook them up with a pair of L26s or my L77s (if they're still around then)... it would seem to be just the thing, to "air out" the top octave on stuff with big treble drivers...

Regards,
Gordon.