D130 Need help with crossover and general info

[rrwalkertr]

Ok, I am by no means a speaker expert. I have messed around with car stereos and stuff a little but I have never dealt with home stereos in detail. My dad when he was younger, bought some speakers from a local sound studio here in Muscle Shoals. For those into music, you have heard of Muscle Shoals (I still live in Muscle Shoals btw).

About the speakers.
I believe my dad has two more boxes at his house, and he gave me these two. On the back of the box, there is a metal tag with the name LYON on it. The numbers on these two box tags are 1068 and 1066. Now i think LYON was a company who built the boxes, but I am unsure on that, if anyone has info on LYON, i would love to learn about them. Each box houses what i think is a Signautre Series D130 (could be D130A) and a bullet tweeter (I think these are vintage 075 tweeters, but not sure) and a jbl crossover. What I am wanting to do is build new boxes for these beautiful speakers so they match my current entertaiment equipment. The cross overs are old and they have a knob on them that is not making good contact anymore. I want to buy new crossovers but JBL says they dont make a crossover for these two frequencies anymore. So, my question is this, which crossover should i put on these. I have a newer model Kenwood Reciever i bought in a set up. Its a Kenwood 6ch input, 6 ch amplifier, model VR-517 (100watt x 6 i think). I want these speakers to sound good while using this reciever but i do have an older style realistic reciever that i might use. Any help with matching a cross over for me to these speakers and hints on what to do with building a box to maximize sound quality would be nice. If you know who LYON is that would be cool to know as well, thanks guys. Pcitures are below of the stuff.

http://www.kontrolfreek.com/d130a.jpg

http://www.kontrolfreek.com/d130b.jpg

http://www.kontrolfreek.com/d130c.jpg

http://www.kontrolfreek.com/d130d.jpg

http://www.kontrolfreek.com/crossover.jpg

http://www.kontrolfreek.com/tweeter.jpg

[Zilch]

Your crossover is N2400, I believe.

There should be a label on the back.

The L-Pad can be cleaned, or replaced with a new one.

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Network%20Schematics/N2400.pdf

[Baron030]

Hi rrwalkertr

I see that your new here, so welcome to the LH forums.
I would not recommend replacing the N2400 crossover networks. The D130, 075, and the N2400 crossover are all designed to work together as a system, a "030 system" to be precise. So, other then giving the L-Pad a good cleaning, the crossover should work just fine. But, if you really want to replace the L-Pad, then you can order a 15-watt 8 ohm L-Pad from www.partsexpress.com. They offer this a 3/8” or a 1” shaft length for the N2400 network either one will work just fine. And here is link to a complete N2400 crossover overhaul, I you really what to go that far.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=12938
But, a complete N2400 overhaul really isn’t necessary.

You are also asking advice on an enclosure. Personally, I would recommend a C38 Enclosure. Here is a link to the C38 Enclosure Plans: http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/plans/c35-c39.htm

Ejfud, a member here, recently did an absolutely spectacular restoration of a C38 enclosure. So, I would strongly recommend looking that thread as well:
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=13844

Baron030

[rrwalkertr]

yes i already saw those pictures, it was awesome overhaul he did. thanks for the info man, what type cleaner and is there an article somewhere giving instructions on cleaning the lpad, thanks

[Baron030]

On the N2400 crossover, The L-Pads should have a black plastic housing that is about 1.5" in diameter. And they will have metal cap attached to its back. This metal cap is only pressed on. So, there are no screws holding it in place and there is no need to remove any decals off of the back. Using any old knife, you start by prying the blade down between the plastic housing and the metal cap. And then with a twisting motion on the knife, the metal cap will start to slide apart. Once, the cap starts to slide a bit, switch to a straight blade screw driver for more leverage. Once the metal cap is off, the L-Pads resistance wire is exposed. So it's real easy to clean the contact surfaces with a pencil eraser or spray it with a contact cleaner. But, I would not recommend trying to lift the wiper arm blades away from the resistance wire to clean under them. That would more then likely bend the blades, which would prevent them from ever making a good contact ever again. Oh, and just for clarification, the wiper arm is the part that moves, then you change the L-Pads intensity setting. After cleaning just press the metal cap back on and you are good to go for several years.

Baron030 :)

[rrwalkertr]

i will have to do this. i have one other question at the moment. on the back of these boxes, the speaker wire runs through a small tube fuse. is this neccesary? i have never seen a fuse on the back of a speaker box. thanks guys, the solder on the fuse has broken away on one of my wires and i was going to remove the fuses if they arent needed, thanks.

[Baron030]

I would remove any fuses. I used them once, but they really don't offer any real protection and are completely unnecessary.
When used in a home stereo application, the best defense that a 030 system has against being destroyed by too much power is a really strong offense. As in, "Oh My God, that's offensively loud". Gee, I better turn it down to save my hearing.
But, before you hook your speakers up to a 1,000 Watt per channel amp, and then turn the knob all the way up to 11. You should realize that the D130's have a thermal limit of only 75 watts. Fortunately, all drivers can handle short transients several times their thermal limit, provided that these transients do not cause excessive voice coil heating or excessive cone excursion. So, you can use an amplifier with a lot more power then just 75 watts per channel.
Just use a little common sense here. If the speakers have a nice and clean sound, then you are probably driving your system within its safe power handling limits. But, if it sounds harsh or distorted, then realize that you are in the danger zone and you should turn it down.
And here a link to more required reading: http://www.jblpro.com/pub/technote/lowpower.pdf

Baron030 :)

[rrwalkertr]

thanks man, i really appreciate the help here, i should start building these boxes soon, they will be completly unique, nothing to simple, but i cant wait to share it with you guys. a little question about boxes. if i put odd corners on the box, will it hurt the sound, an example of this would be my friends boxes, http://flickr.com/photos/calebdawson/sets/72157594325697564/ (http://flickr.com/photos/calebdawson/sets/72157594325697564/)
does this affect the sound a whole lot by doing odd corners, thanks man.

[Baron030]

Wow, before you start cutting up lumber, may I suggest that you draw up your design and somehow post it in a new DIY forum thread. It allows you to get some feed back and some construction tips on your project. In the long run, this will save you time, money, and you will end up with a better sounding finished project.

Baron030 :)

[rrwalkertr]

well being a mechanical engineer, you know i will have drawings and 3d models to show you guys. im actually about to work on that now. also, if anyone else needs some 3d cad done on speaker boxes, just holler, i can tell you from the box how much volume and everything it will have. i can also do drawings for those hard to cut angles :)

[Baron030]

Quoted by rrwalkertr in the DIY thread:


Hey guys, when I opened up the cover of the N2400, there are two coil looking things, those are the LPads? And there are two "needles" that run along them. I can't get to the one that's in the center with a pencil eraser, any suggestions? Thanks


Hi rrwalkertr
I am re-posting your picture of the N2400 with this thread to try to keep all of my LPad cleaning related postings together. In the photo, I can see that you have successfully removed the back cover off of the LPad. And I hope that it came off just as easily as I described it. The LPad is made up of two resistance coils. One resistance coil provides series resistance, while the other provides shunt resistance. And they both appear to have a light tan color in the photo. The two "needles" that run along the winding are attached under the black plastic arm, which I referred to as a "wiper". And the "needles" themselves are the "wiper blades". If you turn the PLad's intensity knob up and down, while thinking of a car's windshield wiper then my strange term of "wiper" will start to actually make some sense.
In my old LPads, there was no greenish colored plastic ring covering up the contact point on the inner resistance coil. So, I was able to clean the inner windings with a pencil eraser. But, with the greenish colored plastic ring in place then you will need to use a spray cleaner instead.
Deoxit contact cleaner is one brand that might be worth trying.

Baron030 :)

[rrwalkertr]

the green part you refer to is not plastic, that is actually the metal that makes the wipers. the metal is spring steel and is cut in a circle and has two circles in it, one for each contact, kind of hard to explain but i wish i had a better image of it, here is another pic.

http://www.kontrolfreek.com/crossover1.jpg

[Baron030]

Hi rrwalkertr
Wow, your L-Pad's are very different from mine. In a way, yours appear to be a better design with a much larger flat spring part of the wiper blade. This would make for a better contact. But, the fact that the blades have a greenish color suggests to me that the blades are made of copper, and corrosion has changed the color to green. I still think that some contact clear can bring these L-Pads back to life again. And don’t worry about removing any of that green coloring off of the blades, it only contact surfaces that really need to be clean.
In a way, it’s really good that you are posting these photos, I am sure that not everyone here has ever seen the insides of an L-Pad before.
Baron030 :)

[rrwalkertr]

no problem, i cant get the cap off the other crossover, appears to be glued on, good thing is it is working fine. i will buy some cleaner and try that, thanks man.