What if the vintage JBL's I bought were stolen?

[glen]

I've bought speakers from ebay, school fund raisers, estate sales, garage sales and even picked them up from by the side of the road. I have no idea where they've been for the vast majority of their 30, 40, or 50 year history. What would it mean if somewhere in their dark past they had stolen and re-sold.

Laws vary tremendously from state to state as far as when the statute of limitations clock starts ticking, what a victim of theft would have to do to assert their claim of ownership, or how their inaction over time may become a surrendering of their ownership rights.

But anyone claiming theft needs proof that they originally owned the item and that it was stolen from them (receipts + police report).

And having only seen a handful of receipts for vintage equipment I'm thinking that it would be exceedingly rare that anyone could sucessfully make such a claim exceedingly rare.

I'm sure there are LOTS of urban-myth style stories about a friend of a friend, but has anyone here actually had to give up items because they were claimed to be stolen property?

[John]

NO.:blah:

[glen]

As I routinely scan ebay for serial numbers I often run across instances where serial numbers in pictures seem purposefully blurred or otherwise obscured like the examples below. I NEVER prod these folks for serial numbers since I would prefer that they alter the pictures than deface the actual serial numbers on the items. Defaced and removed lables also appear regularly.
Fear that your speakers have some illegitimate ancestory may be irrational, but apparently it's not uncommon.

In first pic you can see speakers have normal serial number badging, but second and third pictures serial numbers have been painted out (along with JBL logo and model number)

[sourceoneaudio]

The badge being gone could also be do to the flash.
Happens to me all the time shooting stuff, I just continue to re-take the pic until I get it right. The person might be lazy.

J/S-S1A

[kingjames]

Glen, I think some people blot out the serial numbers on purpose somewhat like they do with License plate numbers.I think they just feel uncomfortable showing these numbers to the world.

I remember years ago I went to a moving sale advertised in the local paper . The ad as I recalled stated numerous items including huge Jbl speakers.I naturally went to go check this out.

When I got there the police was there putting these huge speakers into a truck.It was a set of JBL 4435's.I asked the owner's what was going on and their reply was a man from the neighhborhood showed receipts and was claiming that these were his.They said they bought them about 3 years before this happened at a garage sale.Ironically they had receipts from the garage sale and this is why the police did not arrest them.Next stop for the police of course was the location of the original garage sale.

In the end I think it is very important to keep all paper work for your JBL's,demand a receipt (with serial number's on it) no matter how small the speakers are and no matter where you get them.Every speaker I buy now I require a receipt or I won't buy them.If buying on ebay you should get the owner to reveal the serial numbers in an email or to have them provide them in open auctions and this will be your record. Save your emails or auction listing's with this info for at least 10 years.

Too many speakers are bought on ebay without this knowledge and without this proof of serial numbers. Without a record of these numbers on the auction the seller can always deny that these were the ones that he sent you.Your word against his (not real good proof)

Having this information will not allow you to keep the speakers if it is later learned that they were in fact stolen and the original owner has paperwork to prove it but it will save your butt from going to jail for possession of stolen property.

In the end those 4435's could have been mine as they only wanted $350.00 for them and I had brought $500.00 with me. I'm glad I didn't get them now because if I had decided to sell them later the police would have been at my door.In those days I never got a receipt for anything and if I did always threw them out.

With these speakers going up in price and demand it is foolish not to have record's of your purchase.Always no matter how big the prize get that receipt because that will be the difference between you just losing your recent purchase or losing your recent purchase and your freedom.;)

[sourceoneaudio]

Stolen property transactions, or value over a $1000.00 is a felony, if you bought them out of state very doubtful anyone will ever knock on your door if the the value was under a $1000.00. If they were in fact stolen?


J/S-S1A :D

[glen]

The badge being gone could also be do to the flash.

The flash wouldn't have washed out the badge at such an oblique angle (looking down on it)

And while you may re-take the picture until you get it right I see lots of pictures that look like they re-take it until they "get it wrong". So the glare is exactly centered on the serial number and the rest of the badge is very clear and readable. It's that kind of discrepancy that makes me suspicious when a close up picture of a dented dome is very clear, but the close up picture of the serial number is blurry.

Most sellers are honest and supply pretty good pictures, and most will respond with serial numbers if I ask for them. A good sized minority don't respond at all (maybe just lazy, or recognize that I'm just a "tire-kicker", not a buyer) and a very few want to know why I'm asking.

[glen]

With these speakers going up in price and demand it is foolish not to have record's of your purchase.Always no matter how big the prize get that receipt because that will be the difference between you just losing your recent purchase or losing your recent purchase and your freedom.;)

Thanks for the great first-hand story!
And the good advice on how to protect yourself.

I certainly would not have been able to resist those 4435s. At the price you describe they would've been a STEAL :p

[kingjames]

Stolen property transactions, or value over a $1000.00 is a felony, if you bought them out of state very doubtful anyone will ever knock on your door if the the value was under a $1000.00.


Not here Source,anything over $300.00 is a felony.There is no longer a charge of possession of stolen property in Illinois,if you are caught with stolen property you will be charged with the actual theft whether you stole it or not.Transporting stolen items in excess of $300.00 over state lines is a federal crime.

[sourceoneaudio]

Not here Source,anything over $300.00 is a felony.There is no longer a charge of possession of stolen property in Illinois,if you are caught with stolen property you will be charged with the actual theft whether you stole it or not.Transporting stolen items in excess of $300.00 over state lines is a federal crime.

WOW! The cops must be bored to go after small time crime issues @ $300.00. It's a grand here in AZ. To much murder, home invasions, and car thefts going on here. Like stated above if you have a proof of purchase the Police will not bother you. They will just take your new toys from you.


Jeff
J/S-S1A :D

[mesickmoose]

I think it's like a lot have already mentioned....you need to prove they are your's with a receipt and or police report. If you check out your dads or grandfathers tools, often, they would have initials and or serial numbers etched into them. It might not be a bad idea to put your own identifier inside of a speaker cabinet if the value warrants it.

A lot of the big JBL stuff is inheritly hard to steal and even hard to conceal. For instance, it's not like the run of th mill robber is going to take off with a couple of 100lb ea. speaker cabinets.

Additionaly, if they go to sell them, a lot of the expensive and unique items will trigger flags immediately, even at pawn shops, etc.....

In most cases, unique JBL or even high end audio equipment, most likely would not be stolen. It does happen however. In the event you purchase a high value component at a reasonable price and had no idea it was stolen or no reason to suspect an issue with it I would find it hard pressed for a prosecuter to issue a warrant for concealing stolen goods. The worse that would happen is that you would see your speakers go away.

Statue of limitations is an issue and I think in Michigan it is somewhere around 7 years.

A lot of day to day stuff does not contain enough value to warrant a significant investigation. The police will react, however, if they have leads and probable cause.

Have any board members ever had any signficant JBL or Lansing or other high end audio equipment stolen and not recovered? Just curious.

[sourceoneaudio]

I also think as I stated above it is what they deem important enough to spend tax payers money on to investigate. I have a $20,000.00 dollar plus fraud case that was attempted upon me in the past thirty days. I turned over all information to the local police for investigation, and a second attempt was made on us I can't discuss specifics, I have more information for them notified them and they have yet to come by and get the rest of the information. Were talking $20,000.00 here not $1000.00 or $300.00. ??????? So what's more important?

J/S-S1A :D

[kingjames]

The purpose in providing serial numbers is to get your property back. There is no statue of limitations on receiving your property back only on the crime of stealing them.

Anytime a drug dealer or someone else is arrested in their home by a search warrant most items are run through a serial number data base to see whether or not it is stolen.If you have record's of your numbers then chances are good that you will see them again even if it is 10 years down the road.:yes:

[JBLRaiser]

As I routinely scan ebay for serial numbers I often run across instances where serial numbers in pictures seem purposefully blurred or otherwise obscured like the examples below. I NEVER prod these folks for serial numbers since I would prefer that they alter the pictures than deface the actual serial numbers on the items. Defaced and removed lables also appear regularly.
Fear that your speakers have some illegitimate ancestory may be irrational, but apparently it's not uncommon.

In first pic you can see speakers have normal serial number badging, but second and third pictures serial numbers have been painted out (along with JBL logo and model number)

If the camera is focused on the black baffle, the white foilcal will over expose. Just a thought.