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dkalsi
04-24-2007, 08:34 AM
This person is local to me:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=180109076980&rd=1&rd=1

Although i asked him if I can stop by, he has not responded.
Given the information on the ebay post - can you tell me what to expect from such a speaker (assuming fully functional)

What I would be comparing them to (which are in my system) is 1977 Klipsch Khorns with upgraded ALK Crossovers.

hjames
04-24-2007, 08:37 AM
I can't access ebay while I am at work - can you tell me more info about the speaker? You're in my part of the world ... (Balt/Wash area)



This person is local to me:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=180109076980&rd=1&rd=1

Although i asked him if I can stop by, he has not responded.
Given the information on the ebay post - can you tell me what to expect from such a speaker (assuming fully functional)

What I would be comparing them to (which are in my system) is 1977 Klipsch Khorns with upgraded ALK Crossovers.

dkalsi
04-24-2007, 08:53 AM
Here is from the ad:

Title "Altec Lansing A-7 A7 VOTT" - SUPERB CONDITION

Here are the Altec components in each A7 speaker:
* 416-8A woofer
* 808-8A horn driver
* 511B horn
* N501-8A dividing network
* Voice of the Theatre cabinet

Mr. Widget
04-24-2007, 08:58 AM
What I would be comparing them to (which are in my system) is 1977 Klipsch Khorns with upgraded ALK Crossovers.There are Altec heads who will undoubtedly disagree with me, but I think that a properly functioning K-horn will sound better in the typical domestic setting than a properly functioning Altec A-7. I am aware of the ALK crossovers but have never heard them, but I would assume this mod will make the Klipschorns sound even a bit better.

Both of these systems have strengths and weaknesses, however by it's very nature, the Klipschorn should sound better. It was designed from the start to be a domestic high fidelity reproducer. The Altec A-7 was designed for theater use. In comparing the La Scala with the Altec, I may lean toward the A-7.

The Klipschorn will certainly have deeper bass, and with the K-77 tweeter it will have better highs. (There has recently been a local campaign on this forum to bash the lowly K-77 (T35A), but it really isn't all that bad... and typically sounds better than many other solutions I have heard.)


Widget

Storm
04-24-2007, 12:14 PM
The Klipschorn will certainly have deeper bass, and with the K-77 tweeter it will have better highs. (There has recently been a local campaign on this forum to bash the lowly K-77 (T35A), but it really isn't all that bad... and typically sounds better than many other solutions I have heard.)


Widget

Widget -

So, you dont think I need to run out and change my tweeter on my Valencias?

It is a great tweeter -- Jack and others think it is a piece of shit.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks.

;)

-Storm

hjames
04-24-2007, 12:40 PM
Widget -
So, you dont think I need to run out and change my tweeter on my Valencias?
It is a great tweeter -- Jack and others think it is a piece of shit.
What are your thoughts?
Thanks. ;) -Storm

Storm - the most important ears in your house are YOURS!
If you like the speakers and the way they sound, the rest of the world is moot!

In this situation, it IS all about you!

Enjoy!

Gary L
04-24-2007, 02:01 PM
Sorry ALL BUT, MUST EVERY THREAD MORPH towards Storms Speakers?

I am all for getting a solution to the Valencia questions but not at the cost of Hijacking any thread that remotely touches on the subject!

Gary

Storm
04-24-2007, 02:05 PM
Sorry ALL BUT, MUST EVERY THREAD MORPH towards Storms Speakers?

I am all for getting a solution to the Valencia questions but not at the cost of Hijacking any thread that remotely touches on the subject!

Gary

I did not hijack the thread.

I simply replied to a statement made by Widget, that's all.

Get over it.

;)

-Storm.

Gary L
04-24-2007, 02:22 PM
"Get over it"! Some advice you should think about yourself!

I'd like to know what in the world your speakers have to do with the question asked in post # 1 of this thread?

As I clearly stated, I have no problems with your questions but I think the over 730 posts in your original thread ought to be sufficient on that subject considering we are all still there and still working toward a solution.

Gary

Zilch
04-24-2007, 02:49 PM
Back on tropic: VOTTs do not translate well to Hi-Fi use.

We have some ideas as to how to "Fix" them, tho.

And off topic again: T-35s populate audio hobbyist's junk tweeter boxes the world over.... ;)

Storm: You just did listening comparisons of three different tweeters in/on Valencias last weekend, including your own. If you can't decide what you like on the basis of that, certainly nobody who HASN'T heard them in your system can help you with it....

louped garouv
04-24-2007, 03:03 PM
Back on tropic: VOTTs do not translate well to Hi-Fi use. IMHO



fixed it for you Zilch.....

after all what does "translate well" really mean....

depending on what you like to listen to normally, they could fit the bill....

I like them (VOTTS) a lot listening to classic rock or dance music (disco, house, breaks, etc)

for classical and early blues, I think they hold their own too...

but I do like a pair of Wharfedale Airedales I have in that duty
(which are reputed, on the web at least, to have been designed with
a pair of Khorns nearby)

Gary L
04-24-2007, 03:32 PM
I don't think Widget was at all off on his assessment. I love the A7s and they do have a place but I seriously disagree that place is in a standard home setting.
These are large speaker and designed for an entirely different setting where they excell and do what they are intended for.
True, many who have them, love them but the fact remains, the A7 was never intended for domestic environs in the A7 form.

I won't go into what is or what is not VOTT but you can basically judge the system by it's dress and any speaker Altec made that is in a utility dress will most likely be better suited for utility usage unless you happen to adore that type of sound stage at home.

True they did make many models that had some dual purposes and the same stuff in different cabinets but I don't know of any that did not incorporate some change dependent upon their intended environment wheather it was in the XO, cabinet structure or the actual drivers used.

A 7s were utility and KHorns were Home!

If you want to compare Khorns to Altecs then try a set of 19s or Magnificents where the playing field is at least level.

Gary

Zilch
04-24-2007, 03:49 PM
We obviously have differing views as to the definition of "Hi-Fi."

From Wikipedia:

"High fidelity or hi-fi reproduction is a term used by home stereo listeners and home audio enthusiasts (audiophiles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audiophile)) to refer to high-quality reproduction of sound (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_reproduction) or images (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video) that is very faithful to the original master recording."

"High fidelity equipment has minimal or unnoticeable amounts of noise (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise) and distortion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distortion) and an accurate frequency response (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_response) as set out in 1973 by the German Deutsches Institut für Normung (DIN) standard DIN 45500 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=DIN_45500&action=edit)."

"The equipment must also provide no noticeable distortion of the signal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_%28information_theory%29) or emphasis or de-emphasis of any frequency in this frequency range."

louped garouv
04-24-2007, 04:16 PM
but a D31050M is Hi-Fi, isn't it?

How about a Paragon, Hi-Fi?

my point being, "high quality" sound reproduction is somewhat subjective,
and a flat graph isn't what everyone is looking for....

right?

Zilch
04-24-2007, 05:28 PM
What people are looking for does not define the standard. Generally speaking, however, that would be flat response, anyway.

http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/AudioScience.pdf

Google is failing me today re: DIN 45500; I'd like to know what it actually says.

In any case, if "No noticeable emphasis or de-emphasis of any frequency" or "Faithful to the original master recording" is the definition, VOTT most certainly does not qualify as Hi-Fi unless "fixed."

You're gonna have to remind me what D31050M is.

With respect to Paragon, I'm in enough trouble with that already. :p

[I don't know how it actually measures....]

Gary L
04-24-2007, 05:50 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/Speakers/Speakers-26.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/Speakers/Speakers-25.jpg

I am pretty sure this is a mighty fine speaker!

I am also pretty sure I would want some personal protection if I stick a pair of them in my 18 X 22 Living Room.

Without many bodies to soften the blow stuff like this is just overkill IMHO!

Gary

grumpy
04-24-2007, 08:09 PM
Dkalsi, I've got similar vintage K-horns and have had a grossly similar
setup (ported, short horn woofer, big horn mid+) in the living room
(open two story, ... lots of space). While the A7-like system was fun
and entertaining (and later tweaked with subs and slot tweeters), it
eventually grew tiresome.... indoors. Outdoors they crank :).
I still like to listen to the K-horns (caps replaced, but no ALK mods)
now and then. I don't have a similar urge for the other system.

My 2 cents anyway. -grumpy

Zilch
04-24-2007, 09:12 PM
Without many bodies to soften the blow stuff like this is just overkill IMHO!Hee, hee. Grumpy's got a pair similar to those, too, Gary.

With some minor reconfiguration, they could sound mighty nice in your living room.

[The aesthetic might even grow on you.... :p ]

Gary L
04-25-2007, 05:25 AM
Hee, hee. Grumpy's got a pair similar to those, too, Gary.

With some minor reconfiguration, they could sound mighty nice in your living room.

[The aesthetic might even grow on you.... :p ]

That is the point here! "dkalsi" is looking at a pair of what appear to be stock A7s and asking how they will compare to his already highly moded Khorns.

I think they could be very nice if he puts similar upgrades and mods into the A7s as he did with the Ks. He will still need to get past the Utility appearance and size issues but A7s can certainly be made to sound quite nice in a living room as you have already pointed out.

I just think it is much easier and less expensive to start out with a speaker model that has it's roots in home use unless you happen to fall into some exceptional deal or have an appreciation for the type of sound stage these behemouths can provide.

BTW, The A7's would be a nice project for us die hard tweekers for sure and I would love to hear dkalsi report how it turns out as long as he is willing to make the appropriate mods! I almost bought those JBLs to do exactly that but dollars and sense turned me away.

Gary

louped garouv
04-25-2007, 07:49 AM
What people are looking for does not define the standard. Generally speaking, however, that would be flat response, anyway.

http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/AudioScience.pdf

Google is failing me today re: DIN 45500; I'd like to know what it actually says.


True.......

google failed me yesterday as well....






In any case, if "No noticeable emphasis or de-emphasis of any frequency" or "Faithful to the original master recording" is the definition, VOTT most certainly does not qualify as Hi-Fi unless "fixed."

You're gonna have to remind me what D31050M is.

With respect to Paragon, I'm in enough trouble with that already. :p

[I don't know how it actually measures....]

it's the double 15", exponential corner horn with the potato masher?
top right corner of the 1952 catalog.....

http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/catalogs/1952/page1.jpg

I hear you about the Paragon, I've never heard one either,

but thought that example may get my point across that all Hi-Fi need not sound exceptional, and that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, sonically and aesthetically.....

Hoerninger
04-25-2007, 08:29 AM
DIN 45500; I'd like to know what it actually says.

DIN 45500 has defined a standard in the early days of HiFi, so that people could have some confidence in that particular gear. It is a low level standard, and IMHO it is of less interest for years.

The DIN norm for studio equipment sets tolerances much closer.
___________
Peter

Zilch
04-25-2007, 10:40 AM
it's the double 15", exponential corner horn with the potato masher?
top right corner of the 1952 catalog.....

http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/catalogs/1952/page1.jpg
Dual 130B woofers in an exponential bass horn, 175 DLH high frequency driver, N1200 crossover.

Hi-Fi in 1952, but not today....


The DIN norm for studio equipment sets tolerances much closer.Hi Peter,

Do you know the DIN standard number for that one, please, for reference?

rs237
04-25-2007, 11:38 AM
Hello Zilch,

For a long time before there was the DIN (Deutsche Industrie Norm) has the IRT (Institut for radiotechnology) the requirements of the studio equipment in the so-called “brown book” specified. Here you find some unfortunately only into German

http://www.irt.de/IRT/publikationen/braunbuch.htm

regard

juergen

ps. sorry for my bad english

Hoerninger
05-03-2007, 09:58 AM
Do you know the DIN standard number for that one, please, for reference?

Zilch,

sorry for the delay, I missed to look up here.

In Germany all and everything has a norm. These are made and SOLD by
http://www.normung.din.de/index.php?lang=en&na_id=normung
[You only have to care when you are commercially affected - breathing is not yet normed, I suppose]

I have found a short overview (Telefunken Tonband Taschenbuch, 1966). Many items seem to explain out of context, let me know if I should translate.

Specific devices in broadcasting studios have their own specifications defined by "Brown Books" as mentioned by Juergen. International norms have been important too (CCIR, NARTB).
__________
Peter

Hofmannhp
05-03-2007, 04:26 PM
......Hi-Fi in 1952, but not today....
.....
Hi Peter,
Do you know the DIN standard number for that one, please, for reference?

Hi Zilch,

here's an overview to the standards (blk=original text, blue= for you):

Institute for Broadcasting Technology, Guidelines Part 3:
Technical Guidelines 3/1-8/2
Allgemeine Richtlinien für Entwicklung, Fertigung und Lieferung von Studiogeräten, -systemen und -anlagen der Tonfrequenz- und Videofrequenztechnik
General Guidelines for the development and production of Studioequipment, - Systems as also Audio- and Videoequipment
Technical Guidelines3/2
NF-Koppelfelder (Datum: Juli 1982)
Audio - Frequency Crossbars
Technical Guidelines3/3
Audiokabel und -leitungen (Datum: Febr.1993)
Audiocable and Wirering
Technical Guidelines3/4
Studio-Magnetbänder (Datum: Aug.1980)
Studio - Magnetic Tapes
Technical Guidelines3/5
Tonregieanlagen (Datum: Juli 1995)
Audio Mixing Consoles (incl. Control Room Monitors*)
Technical Guidelines3/6
Aussteuerungsmesser (Datum: März 1998)
Audio Level Meters
Technical Guidelines3/8 - 8/15
Zweikanaliges, digitales Fernsehtonübertragungssystem TV/Tn2 (SEL-Verfahren) (Datum: Juni 1981)
Dual Channel, digital TV-Sound Broadcasting Systems
Technical Guidelines3/9
Vorspann-, Zwischen- und Endbänder für Schaltzwecke im Studio (Datum: Febr. 1987)
Start-, Interval and Stop Tapes for switching purposes in a Studio
Technical Guidelines3/10
DS1-Leitungssender und -empfänger (Datum: April 1992)
DS1- Cable Transmitters and Receivers
* = added by HP

HP