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Robh3606
04-23-2007, 04:34 PM
After much discussion among the Moderators and the Administrators we have decided to close the Off Topic Forum. We realize that many of you have enjoyed the Off Topic Forum however we want to keep the focus on audio only topics and there have been too many instances where issues between individuals have developed and have been dragged into the regular forums. Once the Off Topic forum is closed any thread or posts that do not keep to the topic at hand or are of a non audio topic will be deleted. When the thread or post is deleted you will see Off Topic as the reason for the deletion. We hope this change will help get the topic of conversation more in line with the original reason for the creation of the site.

Rob, Mr. Widget:)

hjames
04-23-2007, 04:38 PM
God bless you moderators!

Thank you!
May this ease your loads!

Long live the LANSING Heritage forums!


After much discussion among the Moderators and the Administrators we have decided to close the Off Topic Forum. We realize that many of you have enjoyed the Off Topic Forum however we want to keep the focus on audio only topics and there have been too many instances where issues between individuals have developed and have been dragged into the regular forums. Once the Off Topic forum is closed any thread or posts that do not keep to the topic at hand or are of a non audio topic will be deleted. When the thread or post is deleted you will see Off Topic as the reason for the deletion. We hope this change will help get the topic of conversation more in line with the original reason for the creation of the site.

Rob, Mr. Widget:)

Earl K
04-23-2007, 04:51 PM
ThankYou ! :)

edgewound
04-23-2007, 04:55 PM
My last post in the OT forum must've been the last straw.:p ;)

....and that's ok

boputnam
04-23-2007, 05:06 PM
Thank you!


ThankYou ! :)


....and that's ok

Far-out, gals-n-guys - thanks for the support.

Fred Sanford
04-23-2007, 05:09 PM
Bless you.

And, thank you for handling this in a diplomatic and even-handed way.

I'll do my best to keep the "Heritage" aspect in mind when posting.

Thanks,

je

kingjames
04-23-2007, 05:14 PM
I have just one argument to make about this new setup and that is "NONE". Well done people,you finally found a way to shut me up!:D

JBL 4645
04-23-2007, 05:20 PM
WTF!:banghead:

Its got nothing to with my posts in the off topic has it otherwise I’ve very sorry. NOT!:D :banghead:

“The more things change the more they stay the same.”
Snake Plissken

Michael Smith
04-23-2007, 06:58 PM
Marvellous,bloody marvellous

Titanium Dome
04-23-2007, 08:23 PM
:offtopic: :montyp:

kingjames
04-23-2007, 10:19 PM
TI-Dome, I like your honesty and after second thought's I wholeheartedly agree!:yes: :tribe:

Rolf
04-24-2007, 12:09 AM
Well, I do not agree in closing the forum.:( :banghead:

Anybody else?:blink:

kingjames
04-24-2007, 12:36 AM
Well, I do not agree in closing the forum.:( :banghead:

Anybody else?:blink:

well I think TI-Dome and I have said as much.

Rolf
04-24-2007, 12:42 AM
well I think TI-Dome and I have said as much.

Yes, but anybody ELSE?

mikebake
04-24-2007, 04:59 AM
http://www.deephousepage.com/smilies/yawn.gif

hjames
04-24-2007, 05:54 AM
Yes, but anybody ELSE?

There are forums all over the web for many many topics -
I guess I didn't see why we needed political discussions here with there are all kinds of perspectives available (in much more detail) elsewhere ...
We can sure pick enough fights just talking about Audio here ...

I figure the Lansing Forum doesn't really need to be all things to all peoples, right? (Understand that I had NO say in the decision that was made)

jim campbell
04-24-2007, 07:06 AM
ive said it before,but here goes.if two members met in the real world i dont doubt that the conversation would encompass a wide range of topics related and unrelated to jbl and audio in general,with the possible exception of the tech types and aside from the dicipline problems faced by the mods from time to time i kind of liked the ot section.id like to think that i can log on here to converse with people that i have something in common with on anything and everything.i believe that we lose more than we gain from this decision

spkrman57
04-24-2007, 07:12 AM
I come here for audio only!;)

Just my 2 cents worth!

Ron

Rolf
04-24-2007, 07:18 AM
There are forums all over the web for many many topics -
I guess I didn't see why we needed political discussions here with there are all kinds of perspectives available (in much more detail) elsewhere ...
We can sure pick enough fights just talking about Audio here ...


I agree about politics and related threads. And yes, I am sure there are other forums that might be useful for different discussions. BUT, on this forum all the members have Lansing as a common interest, and that is important to me. On other forums all kinds of "shit" are discussed, and the tone is not to my liking.



I figure the Lansing Forum doesn't really need to be all things to all peoples, right? (Understand that I had NO say in the decision that was made)

Well, I find it to my liking. Only one forum where I could post about my hobbies, not just JBL, but also other hobbies.

As the forum probably won't come back, I guess we who want to have to keep in touch on normal mail. But it will exclude many members to find other interests they (we) might have in common.

I understand the the ones on this forum that only want to discuss technical and pure restoration of vintage stuff wanted the "off topic" gone. I have seen many statements of this over the past years. But also understand that many of us have been good friends via the "off topic" forum. Many of us have visited each other, and that would not happened if the "off topic" forum had never existed.

I have a question to the moderators that made this decision: Would it not have been right to ASK the MEMBERS what THEY want first? Start a poll or something?

Anyway, you will see a lot less of me here when the "off topic" forum is gone. But I guess that is what is wanted, not just me, but a lot of other members.

Maron Horonzakz
04-24-2007, 08:09 AM
I would like to suggest...Lets get rid of the Birthday site...It has no social audio value...Unless you want to send flowers with a audio gift.;)

Mr. Widget
04-24-2007, 09:42 AM
...i kind of liked the ot section.id like to think that i can log on here to converse with people that i have something in common with on anything and everything.I agree, however in this version of the "real world" it really didn't work out like that. While we have had many interesting and sometimes entertaining discussions, there have been far too many that degraded to pure mud slinging.

These discussion forums were originally added to the site so that we Lansing heritage fans could have a place to share our experiences enjoying, repairing, and collecting Lansing Mfg., Altec, and JBL. It has grown into a community where we discuss audio in general and far ranging topics, however the Market Place and the Off Topic areas have frequently been plagued with poor conduct from some of our membership.

There has also been a lot of discussion about removing or reducing the Market Place as well. Let's hope that we can act like the civil people we are outside of this virtual community and keep that going.



I have a question to the moderators that made this decision: Would it not have been right to ASK the MEMBERS what THEY want first? Start a poll or something?That was discussed also. The idea of having another long winded circular argument between a handful of OT fans and a handful of OT detractors seemed pretty pointless.


Widget

edgewound
04-24-2007, 10:41 AM
I'll clarify my point of view, if I may, at the risk of wasting bandwidth.

The OT forum is as valuable as any other from a social standpoint, but I'm a guest here. I've personally met a few really good people here and I'm sure there's a lot more good people to meet.

The expense to run this site can't be trivial, and moderating has got to be tedious volunteer work, that the pay doesn't live up to. I'm not willing to monetarily contribute every month, but I do get customer's referred to me and I dispense a fair amount of JBL Servicer info that's not always public domain knowledge.

I'm grateful for this site and the history that it's intended to preserve, and the DIY innovation that it fosters.

I'll make periodic contributions to help defray the expense of operation.

This is Don McRitchie's house....not a Social Services Community Center.

That's why it's ok with me to end the OT forum.

JBLnsince1959
04-24-2007, 11:31 AM
That was discussed also. The idea of having another long winded circular argument between a handful of OT fans and a handful of OT detractors seemed pretty pointless.


Widget

yes indeed, I can understand completely how allowing the very people who use the forum to express their opinions would seem pointless to some Moderators..

Of course we could have just had a vote and that would have eliminated all the "pointless discussion," but then a vote to the members might have "unfairly" affected the outcome...

I agree with the way the moderators did this..without any members knowlege or warning... the last thing we would want is for people to express their opinions or feelings about one of the most popular forums on this site. Why waste bandwidth when the outcome is already decided?????


however the Market Place and the Off Topic areas have frequently been plagued with poor conduct from some of our membership.

There has also been a lot of discussion about removing or reducing the Market Place as well. Let's hope that we can act like the civil people we are outside of this virtual community and keep that going.

Widget

Thank GOD for that, yes, the conduct in a few posts; in a few threads; by a few people; from time to time certainly provides the reason to eliminate the entire forum and not just the particular threads or posts. Unlike the other "audio" forums where there has never been any bad behavior, fights, name calling or "Off Topic wanderings".....in fact the "audio" forums are shining examples of civil behavior between two different opinions....The Steve Gonzales/Giskard "discussions" come to mind.

I'm glad that the moderators are finally taking some real action here and HOPEFULLY they will hold ALL Forums ( Incuding Lansing Product General Information, Lansing Product Technical Help, Lansing Product DIY Forum ) to the same high standards as the Off Topic and Market Place and should ANY AUDIO forum be "plagued with poor conduct" or go off topic, that the moderators would eliminate those entire forums for all time too as well ( to make sure they can never even be read) and not just remove the particualr "offending" thread or post....after all the last thing the moderators would want is to appear unfair or bias...

Anyway, thanks for the continued work...... I certainly hope that ALL Forums will be under the same conditions and rules... keep up the good work

kingjames
04-24-2007, 01:05 PM
I agree, however in this version of the "real world" it really didn't work out like that. While we have had many interesting and sometimes entertaining discussions, there have been far too many that degraded to pure mud slinging.

These discussion forums were originally added to the site so that we Lansing heritage fans could have a place to share our experiences enjoying, repairing, and collecting Lansing Mfg., Altec, and JBL. It has grown into a community where we discuss audio in general and far ranging topics, however the Market Place and the Off Topic areas have frequently been plagued with poor conduct from some of our membership.

There has also been a lot of discussion about removing or reducing the Market Place as well. Let's hope that we can act like the civil people we are outside of this virtual community and keep that going.

That was discussed also. The idea of having another long winded circular argument between a handful of OT fans and a handful of OT detractors seemed pretty pointless.


Widget

Mr.widget I hope the next area's won't be member screening. Are you a Democrat,are you a Republican, are you pro JBL,are you pro Altec, etc;,etc;etc;.

Closing off topic is one thing,closing the marketplace is stupid. How do you think most members find their items? For some of the member's that don't have time to look on ebay for whatever reason,it is good to see someone post in the marketplace a particular item of interest.

How is it that you can compare the off topic area with the marketplace area? Am I missing something here?Where's the mud-slinging in the marketplace?

I have no choice but to agree to you're decision to close the off topic area, I just didn't realize that this site was looking for yes JBL,no JBL,type members.

I think you will have in the end caused more problem's for this site than acomplished.I think it is a priviledge to belong to this site but it is no longer any fun. There's just not that many sentence's that I can think of to put the word JBL in.

I think you're's and the other power's to be decision to do this will backfire.No forum can survive without the human element involved and your attempt to silence it, is at least complete censorship.

I guess this will have to be the price we pay if we want to belong to LHS!

SMKSoundPro
04-24-2007, 02:20 PM
Let it go!

Say, How about the price that paragon sold for? $16,600!

Does anyone know of the T/S parameters of JBL 2240's, 2241's and the aftermarket 2241 cone kits that are available?

Will adding a tweeter to your Valencia help?

Does a vintage JBL speaker system sound diferently in Arizona, than Alaska?

POINT: There are SO many discusiions to have about relevent Heritage items. If you want to discuss the news or spin of the day...call in to a radio talkshow!!!! They're free, and that "care" about your viewpoint, if it makes their hour go by quicker!!!

I applaud the owner, adminstrators and moderators of LH! Job well done!:applaud:

My check is in the mail!!!

Signed,
Scott M. Koeller.

kingjames
04-24-2007, 02:58 PM
Guys - no one has banned Democrats or Republicans or anyone! Chill! Don't make assumptions and don't presume.

The Marketplace is still here - Coulda Woulda Shoulda isn't relevant - it DIDN'T go away, now did it?

I never complained about it, for what its worth, but I can remember a couple folks got burned with some Nightw!ng grill cloth or a driver sale from a guy in VA that never shipped - and thats recent - certainly some of you remember other bad deals. But I imagine the fact that they were very few and folks were adult about is why the marketplace is still here.

The "Al Gore- global warming" thread went 30 pages and folks STILL couldn't resist kicking that dead horse over and over ... I don't care and certainly DON'T want to renew it here, its just an example off the top of my head ... there were plenty other OT threads thats got REALLY MEAN (or real stupid). That probably was a big pain in the Mods ... time.

Lets go talk speakers, you folks in here can kill a good vibe REAL QUICK!

Well it seems to me that is what's coming. I remember the cloth and I don't remember being part of it or any other member. I don't advertise my item's on the forum for this reason unless someone bring's up my item's from ebay.

I make assumptions based on current event's and it was after Mr.Widget suggested that this area was also discussed for closure that I assumed we were being forewarned.

I can live with this idea but I think they just took all the fun out of this forum. I will be a gentleman though and leave this topic alone and deal with it the way I deal with everything.With Hope!

hjames
04-24-2007, 03:24 PM
Actually, I bought a spare slot tweeter and a spare horn through 2 sales in the marketplace here - no problem. Fair prices and both work great!
Got some other stuff from Ian, Seawold and Subwoof and others via PMs and emails here - great stuff good price, and a lot of information offered to me in the process.
Again, no problems.

Currently selling my L36s here (and already have an offer), and expect it will go smoothly as well. I have been lucky, friends ... but not everyone is.

So the Moderators have to deal with those kind of issues of folks threatening to send out Rambo to recover the money some dog ripped them off for.

And from the comment there was no real issue of the Marketplace going away, they talked about.

The other stuff you are talking about is worrymongering. No one is deciding who may join and who will go - and to even discuss such a thing is - well, its crazy talk.

I'm not a moderator here - but I have built and worked in other forums and its a thankless job.

C'mon, let this thread die and go back to other topics ...





Well it seems to me that is what's coming. I remember the cloth and I don't remember being part of it or any other member. I don't advertise my item's on the forum for this reason unless someone bring's up my item's from ebay.

I make assumptions based on current event's and it was after Mr.Widget suggested that this area was also discussed for closure that I assumed we were being forewarned.

I can live with this idea but I think they just took all the fun out of this forum. I will be a gentleman though and leave this topic alone and deal with it the way I deal with everything.With Hope!

Rolf
04-24-2007, 03:34 PM
That was discussed also. The idea of having another long winded circular argument between a handful of OT fans and a handful of OT detractors seemed pretty pointless.


Widget

There doesn't had be be a "long winded circular argument". Just a poll with "do you want it or not".

The moderators always win here. I have a problem with this non democratic way of making choices.

If a thread "has no meaning" (as I asked about) the thread starter could get a warning by PM, and if that doesn't help, ban him or her. Not close down a thread that obviously is very popular.

I should like to know who exactly made this choice, but that will probably never be told.

I just say that I am very disappointed.

kingjames
04-24-2007, 03:57 PM
The other stuff you are talking about is worrymongering. No one is deciding who may join and who will go - and to even discuss such a thing is - well, its crazy talk.



I did decide to leave this alone however you seem hell bent on taking my words out of context.

Where does It say I believe that member screening is a reality? However if there are no checks and balances here then who's to say this won't be a requirement in the future.

HJ, please read my post again and you will see this is not worry-mongering as you say but a question that I asked.

boputnam
04-24-2007, 04:01 PM
The OT forum is as valuable as any other from a social standpointBut the question became: Does the "cost" of the social experience tax the merits of the technical forum?" We had a unanimous "Yes" to that.


This is Don McRitchie's house...And one which he always wished would stay "professional" in the eyes of JBL and at-the-least well mannered. That repeatedly became difficult with spill-overs from OT - much became downright embarrasing...


...not a Social Services Community Center.Agreed, and that became an enormous time sink for moderating, and to no useful end - we were merely plugging holes in ever-taller dikes on all sides of arguments/discussions.


yes indeed, I can understand completely how allowing the very people who use the forum to express their opinions would seem pointless to some Moderators..Wrong. It was interesting, and most of us have participated there. However, it morphed into a dominant beast for many's involvement here - they came here for little else! It was detracting from the site as a whole. That "experience" was costly to maintain and not anything relevant to JBL.


I agree with the way the moderators did this..without any members knowlege or warning... the last thing we would want is for people to express their opinions or feelings about one of the most popular forums on this site. Why waste bandwidth when the outcome is already decided?????Tongue in cheek, or do you mean that? The outcome was in no-way predecided. We labored long (too long, many of you think..) on this decision. It was not done lightly nor without deep discussion.


Thank GOD for that, yes, the conduct in a few posts; in a few threads; by a few people; from time to time certainly provides the reason to eliminate the entire forum and not just the particular threads or posts. Unlike the other "audio" forums where there has never been any bad behavior, fights, name calling or "Off Topic wanderings".....in fact the "audio" forums are shining examples of civil behavior between two different opinions...We cannot be every where at every time. We stand a better chance of encurring less argument in things on topic. OT is too wide a landscape and anything goes. The unintended consequence of having that was spill-over of behavior there, into the Forum proper. That was not desireable and a detraction to this site.


I'm glad that the moderators are finally taking some real action here and HOPEFULLY they will hold ALL Forums ( Incuding Lansing Product General Information, Lansing Product Technical Help, Lansing Product DIY Forum ) to the same high standards...That is the plan.


....that the moderators would eliminate those entire forums for all time too as well ( to make sure they can never even be read) and not just remove the particualr "offending" thread or post....after all the last thing the moderators would want is to appear unfair or bias...This is not the plan.


Mr.widget I hope the next area's won't be member screening.Your hope is fulfilled...


I think you will have in the end caused more problem's for this site than acomplished. I think it is a priviledge to belong to this site but it is no longer any fun. There's just not that many sentence's that I can think of to put the word JBL in.Ah, now there is the crux of it. This is a JBL and related-thingy place. It morphed into a communal internet cafe where all manner of things were posted - it lately became a place where news headlines were posted. There are other locals better suited for that.

We prefer this place stay more focussed, as designed. We created OT years ago due to user demand - it backfired, for sure. We never understood, that the wide-range of topics and the depth of emotion (not passion, but emotion..) which erupted in OT would compromise much of the relevant interaction on the Forum. The JBL forum is about passion - OT became only so much emotion...


I think you're's and the other power's to be decision to do this will backfire. No forum can survive without the human element involved and your attempt to silence it, is at least complete censorship.We are a JBL and louspeaker knowledge resource. People will come here to seek answers and offer solutions. We will go the YouTube and CNN for those sorts of activities - blogs are springing up everywhere...


I guess this will have to be the price we pay if we want to belong to LHS!We hope it will make the experience more relevant, and look forward to your contributions and questions in those topics.

hjames
04-24-2007, 04:04 PM
Hell bent is a bit strong - all I can say is I read what was you typed.

Sorry - I never said you took it as reality, I reading your sentence "Well it seems to me that is what's coming" and simply figured it was too much worrying about a non-reality.

I'll delete all my post - its obvious to me that you are bent on this forum issue and no sensible talk from me will sway you from your righteous indignation.

Checks and Balances indeed. What ARE you talking about - its not the Constitution, its just a web forum! Sorry to trouble you.

kingjames
04-24-2007, 04:26 PM
Hell bent is a bit strong - all I can say is I read what was you typed.

Sorry - I never said you took it as reality, I reading your sentence "Well it seems to me that is what's coming" and simply figured it was too much worrying about a non-reality.

I'll delete all my post - its obvious to me that you are bent on this forum issue and no sensible talk from me will sway you from your righteous indignation. Checks and Balances indeed. What ARE you talking about - its not the Constitution, its just a web forum! Sorry to trouble you.

But please beware - I think the squirrel avenger has more problems than we can solve by discussing the forum sanely -
and he's liable to get the whole forum stuffed if he keeps threatening to tear up some cars in revenge.

heather,it's not what you say it's how you say it.I try never to take things personally,words do not bother me,damn,hell bent should not be words to describe one's attitude. I still think you're the best senorita member on this board.Be happy!

Note.. The squirrel avenger I believe is doing his thing on his terms>

Rolf
04-24-2007, 06:22 PM
I should really like to see Don's comment about this. His contribution will surly make me decide if I shall come back to LHF or stay out.

The latest comments made by boputnam is at best a defence for the censorship going on for to long her.

I guess the final message will be: "do it my way (that is the moderators ++), or stay out".

In Europe these ways of doing things like this ended in 1989 when the Berlin wall fell apart.

Zilch
04-24-2007, 06:37 PM
I would be in favor of OT being restored if Rolf were the moderator.

[That means read every friggin' word.... :p ]

Rolf
04-24-2007, 06:43 PM
I would be in favor of OT being restored if Rolf were the moderator.

[That means read every friggin' word.... :p ]

And what exactly do you mean by that Zilch? I am not sure if your comment it is positive or negative.:blink:

JBLRaiser
04-24-2007, 06:50 PM
Just for posterity. Almost as good as OT forum. :applaud::D:p

boputnam
04-24-2007, 06:50 PM
I should really like to see Don's comment about this. The only time I saw Don really lose his temper, was in the OT section - and it happened maybe three times. Matter of fact, that was about the time he quit posting. Coincidence, maybe, but certainly circumstantial...


His contribution will surly make me decide if I shall come back to LHF or stay out.OK


The latest comments made by boputnam is at best a defence for the censorship going on for to long her. Rolf, dood, your words are very harsh. You are bitter about something that you are not saying or is not from here. We never try to censor - we work very hard to not censor. I take umbrage to your comment and am sad you rate our effort as such.


I guess the final message will be: "do it my way (that is the moderators ++), or stay out".That is a bitter and glass-half-full way of seeing it. There is plenty to do here, and all of it (now) JBL and audio related. Have some fun...


In Europe these ways of doing things like this ended in 1989 when the Berlin wall fell apart.Dood. Take a bath. Drink some wine. Enjoy with your physical friends the time we have returned to you by obliterating OT. If you have vision, you will see the wall has actually come down, and we are now all together here.

Rolf
04-24-2007, 07:20 PM
The only time I saw Don really lose his temper, was in the OT section - and it happened maybe three times. Matter of fact, that was about the time he quit posting. Coincidence, maybe, but certainly circumstantial...


I can only guess what made him lose his temper, and quit posting.



Rolf, dood, your words are very harsh. You are bitter about something that you are not saying or is not from here. We never try to censor - we work very hard to not censor. I take umbrage to your comment and am sad you rate our effort as such.


I am normally a quiet and "nice" guy, not speaking harsh words. Bitter about something I am not saying, or not from here? I do not know what you are talking about.

But in this (and a few other situations) I am really pi&st off. What has been done, and most of all the way it has been done is subject to criticism.

I appreciate the effort being done by the moderators, but in this case everything has been done wrong.



That is a bitter and glass-half-full way of seeing it. There is plenty to do here, and all of it (now) JBL and audio related. Have some fun...

Dood. Take a bath. Drink some wine. Enjoy with your physical friends the time we have returned to you by obliterating OT. If you have vision, you will see the wall has actually come down, and we are now all together here.

That is one point of view. The other one is mine, and many others that are afraid to speak their minds, afraid that they will be banned from this site. I'm not, because if that happen, I know.

A while ago the site celebrated member no. 5000. How many of them do you think wanted to keep the OT forum?

It was my plan to donate a certain amount every year to this site, as I believe it is needed to keep it going. Now I am not sure if it is worth it.

johnaec
04-24-2007, 07:31 PM
It was my plan to donate a certain amount every year to this site, as I believe it is needed to keep it going. Now I am not sure if it is worth it.C'mon! Are you saying the dozens of JBL sections here aren't worth the single OT forum??? 'Sounds like the JBL portion is insignificant to you... :blink:

John

hjames
04-24-2007, 07:33 PM
Heya Bo - I think I get the point - the site is here to support Lansing related products. It covers a lot of ground to do that, and even lets us compare stuff to other brands not directly in the Lansing lines ... but thats really the main point. You can't be all things to everyone - and its probably not right to encourage everyone who comes here to join. Its not the right kind of place for everyone - and I don't mean snobbery or anything like that, I just mean the purpose may not be what some folks would want to talk about.

You mods are volunteers and have a limited amount of time to be here - time that comes out of your day, or your night, or time you maybe would rather spend offline listening, or having a beer, or relaxing ...

Things that make this place less fun make it harder to keep it going - some of the endless fights and bickering didn't really have anything to do with audio gear - but had to be handled. And often got in the way of folks having a good conversation.

Some folks won't like that and will name-call or go find some other forum - maybe one more like a chat room and less like a technical resource.

But you just can't be everything to everyone - thanks for being honest about what its about.

Audiobeer
04-24-2007, 08:20 PM
Stick a fork in it (The Off Topic forum). If this is a poll then my vote is that the off topic being gone is a good thing. Sometimes reading the off topic forum was like being a storm watcher.

Rolf
04-24-2007, 08:31 PM
Stick a fork in it (The Off Topic forum). If this is a poll then my vote is that the off topic being gone is a good thing. Sometimes reading the off topic forum was like being a storm watcher.

So why do you bother reading it?

Audiobeer
04-24-2007, 08:54 PM
I don't know......I guess I'm one of those people that just has to look at the car wreck even though I know it's awful and could scar my memory for life.
:applaud:

Titanium Dome
04-24-2007, 09:20 PM
Ignore history and all that, eh wot?

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=9697

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8933

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=9533

Let's call what we have here a "community." OK? The core value of this community is the Lansing Heritage, which includes Lansing Manufacturing, Altec Lansing, and JBL. So far, so good.

Now if we only had three forums, we'd be a pure community:
1. Lansing Product General Information
2. Lansing Product Technical Help
3. Lansing Product Marketplace

However, a lot of enthusiasts want to "improve" on the Lansing Heritage through DIY projects, or perhaps they even argue that DIY is the truest form of the Lansing Heritage today, so we allow this:
4. Lansing Product DIY

Of course, that's all a bit finite and dry, unless we can add into the mix the other parts of the audio stream that lead up to the Altecs, JBLs, or whatever, so we need to add this:
5. Lansing Related Gear

Of course, if we do that, then what about the purpose of the audio stream? Gotta be able to talk about that:
6. Music

So suddenly we see that the community is not a monolithic ideology, but a common core appreciation of the Lansing Heritage and how it adds to each individual's musical aesthetic. Oh my, it's a place of diversity!

Well, how can we address some of the technical and theoretical approaches we take, because that will, after all, shed light on our different applications and preferences for Lansing Heritage products and ideas. Oh, I know—this:
7. General Audio Discussion

And if there's some non-Lansing Heritage item that a member wants to buy or sell, that might enhance or offer an alternative to the Lansing Heritage experience, well then we need this:
8. General Audio Marketplace

Well, Aphrodite, our community is a long way from a pure Lansing Heritage environment now. It's all about degrees of separation, I suppose.

OK, some non-Lansing Heritage content is inevitable. After all we have to manage the site's forums, and that can't be done by talking about JBLs and Altecs.
9. Forum Information
10. Forum Feedback (probably where this thread should be judging by its content)

And maybe a not-so-obvious area, based on its encouragement to offer events, meetings, and birthday wishes:
11. Forum Announcements (more like Member Announcements and Greetings, really)

Finally, since this is a community and it intentionally moved to diversify itself in order to reflect the interests of the members beyond pure Lansing Heritage, what about a place for all other communication so as not to burden the other threads with distractions? Ah, how about this:
12. Off Topic

For better or worse, this is the form that the community was given, and once given, it should not unilaterally be taken back. That's probably the rub of the issue for me.

I'm not worried about censorship, exclusion of members, democracy, or even free speech. This is not a democratic institution, and the posting guidelines clearly limit "freedom of speech" in a reasonable and site-specific way. This helps define the community standards.

However, I am disappointed when a decision is taken to reduce the ability of the community to express itself and to communicate in ways that were previously allowed without any discussion. Judging by the volume of posts, one of the more popular forums was Off Topic.

There were a number of ways we might have discussed modifying the OT area without killing it lock, stock, and barrel. However, that discussion will not take place, and the seemingly arbitrary decision is made. The deed is done.

You guys provide a valuable role here without getting much credit, and I thank you for your dedication and contribution. This time I think you missed it.

JBLRaiser
04-24-2007, 09:46 PM
Ignore history and all that, eh wot?

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=9697

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8933

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=9533

Let's call what we have here a "community." OK? The core value of this community is the Lansing Heritage, which includes Lansing Manufacturing, Altec Lansing, and JBL. So far, so good.

Now if we only had three forums, we'd be a pure community:
1. Lansing Product General Information
2. Lansing Product Technical Help
3. Lansing Product Marketplace

However, a lot of enthusiasts want to "improve" on the Lansing Heritage through DIY projects, or perhaps they even argue that DIY is the truest form of the Lansing Heritage today, so we allow this:
4. Lansing Product DIY

Of course, that's all a bit finite and dry, unless we can add into the mix the other parts of the audio stream that lead up to the Altecs, JBLs, or whatever, so we need to add this:
5. Lansing Related Gear

Of course, if we do that, then what about the purpose of the audio stream? Gotta be able to talk about that:
6. Music

So suddenly we see that the community is not a monolithic ideology, but a common core appreciation of the Lansing Heritage and how it adds to each individual's musical aesthetic. Oh my, it's a place of diversity!

Well, how can we address some of the technical and theoretical approaches we take, because that will, after all, shed light on our different applications and preferences for Lansing Heritage products and ideas. Oh, I know—this:
7. General Audio Discussion

And if there's some non-Lansing Heritage item that a member wants to buy or sell, that might enhance or offer an alternative to the Lansing Heritage experience, well then we need this:
8. General Audio Marketplace

Well, Aphrodite, our community is a long way from a pure Lansing Heritage environment now. It's all about degrees of separation, I suppose.

OK, some non-Lansing Heritage content is inevitable. After all we have to manage the site's forums, and that can't be done by talking about JBLs and Altecs.
9. Forum Information
10. Forum Feedback (probably where this thread should be judging by its content)

And maybe a not-so-obvious area, based on its encouragement to offer events, meetings, and birthday wishes:
11. Forum Announcements (more like Member Announcements and Greetings, really)

Finally, since this is a community and it intentionally moved to diversify itself in order to reflect the interests of the members beyond pure Lansing Heritage, what about a place for all other communication so as not to burden the other threads with distractions? Ah, how about this:
12. Off Topic

For better or worse, this is the form that the community was given, and once given, it should not unilaterally be taken back. That's probably the rub of the issue for me.

I'm not worried about censorship, exclusion of members, democracy, or even free speech. This is not a democratic institution, and the posting guidelines clearly limit "freedom of speech" in a reasonable and site-specific way. This helps define the community standards.

However, I am disappointed when a decision is taken to reduce the ability of the community to express itself and to communicate in ways that were previously allowed without any discussion. Judging by the volume of posts, one of the more popular forums was Off Topic.

There were a number of ways we might have discussed modifying the OT area without killing it lock, stock, and barrel. However, that discussion will not take place, and the seemingly arbitrary decision is made. The deed is done.

You guys provide a valuable role here without getting much credit, and I thank you for your dedication and contribution. This time I think you missed it.

A catchy name like, oh....'Dark side of the Moon'. Still maintaining the musical theme, yet with a bit more of an attitude for those of us with more than just JBL and Altec on our minds. By the way, I was given a warning not to call Al Gore a BASTARD anymore and I haven't. I'd say the system was working.:applaud:

kingjames
04-24-2007, 11:34 PM
TI-Dome has a way of writing what I'm thinking. I never really could put my feelings into writing ain't sure of the right words.

Take a look at this thread it has generated more response's then any of the thread's in a lot less time.Seem's popular to me.

I tried just for my sake to read every post in every thread to see what it's like. I must say I don't know how you moderator's do it. It is very time consuming and not a very likeable job to do. I must hand it to you. I was bored with a lot of the stuff and in those area's I was reading every other 10 words just to get through it. You people have to read everything to make sure the rules are being obey.Man what a job it is indeed and to think you do it on a volunteer basis is even more admirable.

I don't know why it is so important to keep the world event's out of this forum,it appears to me that these event's are just as imporatnt as JBL. I like to think of the Off Topic area as the area where people exchange idea's in real life with people with the same passion's. This I believe makes it more easy to talk to fellow member's.It is pretty easy to figure out a member's view just by reading his or her's off topic material.

It's September 11th 2001 and the World Trade Tower's were just hit by airplane's and I can't post this here and let people know in real time.

The earthquake that just rocked California where JBL'S archives were just lost and can't post that here.

Tsunami just wiped out over 225.000 people and can't post that here.

These are all things that have a profound effect on the whole world and just because you can't post these event's here in real time doesn't mean they didn't happen.

I think people no matter where they are need to be informed and the faster the better in some cases.

This is not You-tube or the other forum's that where everything goes,this is LHS the foremost authority on anything JBL and it's members do have different views and this is a good thing.

Off topic area is vital and bears a connection with JBL whether you believe it or not.

Allow postings of headlines but make the reply's private only. Just a thought. Guess I'll shut up now. Everyone have a nice day and I guess no headline means no sad news.;)

kingjames
04-24-2007, 11:37 PM
I don't know......I guess I'm one of those people that just has to look at the car wreck even though I know it's awful and could scar my memory for life.
:applaud:

LHS is not a 2 lane country road where you have no choice put to see what happened in the other lanes instead this is a 4 lane highway where you have the choice to look or not. If you decide to look it is your own fault if you drive the rest of the way with bad feelings.;)

Mr. Widget
04-25-2007, 01:02 AM
You guys provide a valuable role here without getting much credit, and I thank you for your dedication and contribution. This time I think you missed it.I may be wrong, but my recollection is that you have pretty much felt we missed the mark on most of these controversial subjects.

The fact of the matter is that maybe ten or twenty people (I am probably being very generous here.) are very disappointed in our action. We expected you might be and we respectfully disagree with you. We did not come to this decision lightly and I believe it was a unanimous decision among the moderators to take this tact.

To those of you who are disappointed in our decision, I am truly sorry. As you undoubtedly must know, I too have enjoyed posting there, however the overall sense of tension and discord that seeped into all of the discussion forums was pretty obvious. We Moderators and Administrators feel that the enjoyment of bashing our favorite political piñatas or other carrying on with our other off topic discussions was simply not worth that level of discord. Feel free to disagree, but try not to validate our decision on this thread.
Thank you.


Widget

porschedpm
04-25-2007, 01:40 AM
I support the moderators' decision to remove the Off Topic Forum. I believe all LH Forum discussions should at least attempt to focus on Lansing and/or audio related topics. After all, the name of the forum IS the Lansing Heritage Forum. If a member wants to share off topic subjects with their Forum buddies, perhaps they should consider using the PM function. Realistically though, OT subjects will still crop up (just like this thread is in Forum Announcements). But I don't believe we need a separate section in the forum that invites OT discussions that too easily turn into heated discussions. In my opinion, the proliferation of these OT threads since the OT Forum was opened up has tended to dilute the focus of the LH Forum. It also makes for a more cluttered Forum, especially when doing a search for new threads or a particular topic. Couple this with other costs in terms of the Moderators limited time and the additional hard drive space, and soon the costs outweigh whatever perceived benefit there might have been for having a separate OT Forum. Keep up the good work, Moderators.

Ed S.

Rolf
04-25-2007, 02:05 AM
I rest my case in this thread. I have a large wall of stone I must convince to move. This will be easier than getting true here.

4313B
04-25-2007, 06:42 AM
Nice post Mr. Widget!
The fact of the matter is that maybe ten or twenty people (I am probably being very generous here.) are very disappointed in our action.You are pretty generous...

I'd recommend looking forward to the proposed site upgrade and hope it actually happens. Don has mentioned significantly expanding the Library on a new test site as well as adding in a number of profiles and the English version of the four Stereo Sound articles on the Everest II.

kingjames
04-25-2007, 07:46 AM
The fact of the matter is that maybe ten or twenty people (I am probably being very generous here.) are very disappointed in our action.

I will say this is at least 50% percent of the members that have posted more than 10 times.

There may be quite a few members but if you look at the posting of thread's you will see only a handful that participates.

DIY has a lot of project's but I keep seeing the same 10 to 20 people all the time.

More traffic is in the Lansing Marketplace than in the DIY area's.Wonder why?

You could make this a read only site where the same 10 to 20 people do the posting and everyone else just comes to read. This wouldn't be very human though (not a good idea).

Out of all the area's on this forum you will find the same names who do most of the posting.

So, Mr.Widget your number's are quite high if you consider who is doing most of the posting here.

In this thread I have counted 13 against and 10 for,looks like a little less than 50%. The one's that respond here are as you will find are the same 20 to 30 people who respond all the time. So where do you get your numbers from?:blink:

duaneage
04-25-2007, 07:51 AM
The OT forum was turning into an ugly venue for political discussions where no one wins and no one gives any ground. THere are plenty of websites for that where you can lock antlers with other people, the only difference here was you battled with JBL types and you got to see their speaker posts as well. So the next time someone you argued with in OT posts something audio related, a nasty spat might develop. I won't name anyone, but sniping occurred quite regularly between a few people.

I dropped more than a few opinions there but it needed to go. It is a Lansing heritage site we are on after all.

kingjames
04-25-2007, 07:51 AM
I come here for audio only!;)

Just my 2 cents worth!

Ron

If you come here just for audio then why is the OT area important to you?You're not another one of those that like's looking at car wrecks,are you?;)

mikebake
04-25-2007, 07:56 AM
In Europe these ways of doing things like this ended in 1989 when the Berlin wall fell apart.
Well, that kinda cements my opinion on OT; closing it was an excellent idea.

kingjames
04-25-2007, 07:58 AM
I won't name anyone, but sniping occurred quite regularly between a few people.



Then you deal with those few people and don't close the area that had the most following.Too many times have the most suffered because of deed's done by the few.:D

boputnam
04-25-2007, 08:35 AM
...it intentionally moved to diversify itself in order to reflect the interests of the members beyond pure Lansing Heritage...Uh, no. Actually, OT was created to sweep all the irrelevant rubbish into.


For better or worse, this is the form that the community was given, and once given, it should not unilaterally be taken back...Doug, this is your weakest argument. We tried it - it did not work here and served to distract and detract, to cause members to fume and led to spats. There were more infractions occuring in OT than anywhere else.

By your logic one should never try something because there is no chance for reconsideration, no chance to learn and revise a strategy? Nonsense. We learned and revised the structure of LHS toward it's roots.

4313B
04-25-2007, 09:08 AM
There may be quite a few members but if you look at the posting of thread's you will see only a handful that participates.

DIY has a lot of project's but I keep seeing the same 10 to 20 people all the time.

More traffic is in the Lansing Marketplace than in the DIY area's.Wonder why?DIY has become a joke, as was foreseen by a few astute individuals. A few people took it over and decided that they had all the answers and all the time in the world to dispense those answers. I think maybe 10 to 20 people actually care what gets posted in DIY these days. I've gotten more notes and phone calls of disgust about that section of the forum than even OT. It's a dead issue for me.

There are a few people who have made this place their pub. My suggestion would be to find another place to hang your hat. Think about opening your own personal website and put all your bullshit on it. That's what other people do. If you don't have the talent to open your own website then pay someone to do it for you. That's what other people do.

The Marketplace stays because it provides a nice service to those who are serious about their hobby. I think a few more moderators need to be moved to that area though. As Mr. Widget has stated, we aren't in the business of getting to the bottom of shady deals. If you can't use the Marketplace in a reasonably professional manner then you get booted into the ether. Pretty simply concept. It's a resource. Refrain from polluting it.

This website is used daily by people none of you even know, and you will never know. JBL refers to it all the time. JBL refers their customers to it all the time. Why? Because despite the very best efforts of a few to make it their personal blogfest it still contains a wealth of information for those who come in, get it and leave to go apply it. Most people simply don't have the time or inclination to spend their days hanging around on a website, Lansing Heritage or otherwise. Maybe the lost souls should go find something else to do. Save a whale or write a congressperson or volunteer at a hospice. Send each other emails or call each other on the phone. Forums are terrible for getting points across. As Don as said - based on what alot of these people post - we sure wouldn't want to meet most of them in real life. And that's a fact! Now, most of you are probably just fine in real life but let it be known that you do not come across that way on a forum.



Also - some of you might think you have "buddies" at certain companies but I encourage you to think again. You might see yourself as a "resource" but others see you as a "time sponge"; Time they really don't have to waste. I really don't know how to put it tactfully so I'll just say - some of you have been making real pests of yourselves at certain companies with your little obsessions... I'd suggest getting over those obsessions.

boputnam
04-25-2007, 10:36 AM
DIY has become a joke, as was foreseen by a few astute individuals. A few people took it over and decided that they had all the answers and all the time in the world to dispense those answers. I think maybe 10 to 20 people actually care what gets posted in DIY these days. I've gotten more notes and phone calls of disgust about that section of the forum than even OT. It's a dead issue for me.

There are a few people who have made this place their pub. My suggestion would be to find another place to hang your hat. Think about opening your own personal website and put all your bullshit on it. That's what other people do. If you don't have the talent to open your own website then pay someone to do it for you. That's what other people do.

The Marketplace stays because it provides a nice service to those who are serious about their hobby. I think a few more moderators need to be moved to that area though. As Mr. Widget has stated, we aren't in the business of getting to the bottom of shady deals. If you can't use the Marketplace in a reasonably professional manner then you get booted into the ether. Pretty simply concept. It's a resource. Refrain from polluting it.

This website is used daily by people none of you even know, and you will never know. JBL refers to it all the time. JBL refers their customers to it all the time. Why? Because despite the very best efforts of a few to make it their personal blogfest it still contains a wealth of information for those who come in, get it and leave to go apply it. Most people simply don't have the time or inclination to spend their days hanging around on a website, Lansing Heritage or otherwise. Maybe the lost souls should go find something else to do. Save a whale or write a congressperson or volunteer at a hospice. Send each other emails or call each other on the phone. Forums are terrible for getting points across. As Don as said - based on what alot of these people post - we sure wouldn't want to meet most of them in real life. And that's a fact! Now, most of you are probably just fine in real life but let it be known that you do not come across that way on a forum.

Also - some of you might think you have "buddies" at certain companies but I encourage you to think again. You might see yourself as a "resource" but others see you as a "time sponge"; Time they really don't have to waste. I really don't know how to put it tactfully so I'll just say - some of you have been making real pests of yourselves at certain companies with your little obsessions... I'd suggest getting over those obsessions.Thanks, Giskard.

I prepared a lengthy and patient response including much that you posted. Then just before hitting "ALT-S", I got really cross at this whole exchange.

We labored this for-ever. We - the mods - even fought amongst ourselves over dealings with and within OT. What emerged, clear as a damned bell, was what OT was doing to the perception of LHS, and to interaction in the JBL and JBL-related-thingy forums.

I remind myself that we anticipated just this sort of backlash, girded for it, and went ahead and did what was best for LHS. :)

4313B
04-25-2007, 10:41 AM
Yeah, I wouldn't have bothered typing it but I had to sit here and wait on other things anyway so what the heck.
You guys are infinitely more patient than I am with this stuff. ;)

boputnam
04-25-2007, 10:46 AM
You guys are infinitely more patient than I am with this stuff. ;)Yea, and much of that patience was in merely trying to maintain status quo, in-spite of the water we were taking on. Eyes wide open, pard'...

scott fitlin
04-25-2007, 11:14 AM
The OT forum was turning into an ugly venue for political discussions where no one wins and no one gives any ground. THere are plenty of websites for that where you can lock antlers with other people, the only difference here was you battled with JBL types and you got to see their speaker posts as well. So the next time someone you argued with in OT posts something audio related, a nasty spat might develop. I won't name anyone, but sniping occurred quite regularly between a few people.

I dropped more than a few opinions there but it needed to go. It is a Lansing heritage site we are on after all.Exactly. And even though I must admit, I did enjoy posting in the ot section, it did seem time for it to go.

I voted for us to close the OT section, in spite of the fact that I REALLY LIKED and ENJOYED OT, some of it, anyway. It definitely seems for the betterment of our community.

Ian Mackenzie
04-25-2007, 04:17 PM
The irony is that this THREAD has in effect gone off topic and is now reflecting private views the general membership don't even need to know about. It more like a Venting forum than anything else.

Titanium Dome
04-25-2007, 04:35 PM
The irony is that this THREAD has in effect gone off topic and is now reflecting private views the general membership don't even need to know about. It more like a Venting forum than anything else.

:rotfl: So true. :rotfl:

:duel:

boputnam
04-25-2007, 05:44 PM
It more like a Venting forum than anything else.It's OK. People want to be heard. That is occurring. And, we are trying to respond to their commentary.

We will indeed move on...

Ian Mackenzie
04-25-2007, 08:06 PM
I appreciate that.....but where there are issues there are motives and that applies equally to anyone regardless.

What Giskard has said gives context but hightights what is so right and so wrong with what members come here for. ie If you want everything on your own terms set up a Blog. Everyone has an opportunity to be here but you will need to make some compromises and a lot of understanding and tolerance.

Sadly I am not convinced that is the case.

Ian

kingjames
04-25-2007, 08:53 PM
I appreciate that.....but where there are issues there are motives and that applies equally to anyone regardless.

And what might those motives be Mr. Freud?

merlin
04-26-2007, 03:04 AM
Politics and religion.

Best banned as topics in the interests of harmony and I therefore understand the actions and applaud.

Not too sure about Giskard's rant however. It seems to me you either want to develop a virtual community or provide a historical reference site for JBL. If "the company" wants an historical reference site "on it's own terms", why doesn't it pay for one and run it itself? That way, they won't get pestered by the great unwashed on a daily basis and can get on with the job of building great loudspeakers that no one wants to buy?

Some guys could of course leave their egos at the door on the way in;)

4313B
04-26-2007, 03:21 AM
Not too sure about Giskard's rant however. It seems to me you either want to develop a virtual community or provide a historical reference site for JBL. If "the company" wants an historical reference site "on it's own terms", why doesn't it pay for one and run it itself? That way, they won't get pestered by the great unwashed on a daily basis and can get on with the job of building great loudspeakers that no one wants to buy?Don has already explained how the website came about and what JBL's involvement was with it.

Not real sure what the great unwashed refers to. I have seen that term used a few times before here. It's kind of funny. :p

On the subject of loudspeakers - it seems the Array Series has been kind of a bust in Japan. While the performance is definitely there, and applauded, they can't get past the visual. In the US and Europe they are doing alot better because they are used for HT and end up being well integrated into the rooms so they're less visually apparent. Rumor is the Array Series will be replaced by a line of direct radiator loudspeakers similar to the Performance Series but at the same price points as the Array Series. All subject to change at any time of course.

merlin
04-26-2007, 04:29 AM
Don has already explained how the website came about and what JBL's involvement was with it.

Sorry Giskard, I missed it, could you possibly explain or point me in the right direction? All I can find is the rules which start...


The intent of this forum is to develop a community of people that share a common interest in the products and legacy associated with James B. Lansing. To that end, it is my intent to foster as wide ranging discussion as possible. There is even a place for non Lansing related discussion - the "Off-Topic" forum.


Anyway, according to HiFi News review of the Array 1400, they suffer from overt and distracting horn colouration. I'd be interested to know what you think of this opinion - after all is the horn not as used by GT at home?

4313B
04-26-2007, 04:49 AM
Sorry Giskard, I missed it, could you possibly explain or point me in the right direction? All I can find is the rules which start...Got it! I see where you're coming from. And I think that is why you haven't seen any changes from him personally.

Anyway, according to HiFi News review of the Array 1400, they suffer from overt and distracting horn colouration. I'd be interested to know what you think of this opinion - after all is the horn not as used by GT at home?No, Greg uses the same horn you and I use, albeit slightly modified with bondo to attach the 045, which he has since stopped using. Do you find that your horns suffer from overt and distracting horn colourations?

I have no idea who the reviewers are or what their backgrounds are so I can't really comment on their opinions. I do know that Greg finds some reviews amusing regardless of their bend.

4313B
04-26-2007, 05:31 AM
And what might those motives be Mr. Freud?I am responding to your orginal post as opposed to this version because it struck a cord. :p

It rankles that a few people here see fit to use this website as a free therapy regimen instead of paying for real professional therapy sessions. Freeloaders...

A few others need to stop coming here and start going to eHarmony, or someplace similar, instead of making this place their lifestyle.

boputnam
04-26-2007, 10:01 AM
...but where there are issues there are motives and that applies equally to anyone regardless.Uh, yeah, I think...


...Everyone has an opportunity to be here...:bouncy:


...you will need to make some compromises and a lot of understanding and tolerance.Yup, and those coming here must likewise realize that in the interest of focussing on LHS topical issues, a decision has been taken to very slightly reduce the offerings here. The "menu" is still vast, but the smorgasbord has been lessened ever so slightly.


...Sadly I am not convinced that is the case.OK

merlin
04-26-2007, 12:46 PM
No, Greg uses the same horn you and I use, albeit slightly modified with bondo to attach the 045, which he has since stopped using. Do you find that your horns suffer from overt and distracting horn colourations?


No I don't hear this either. The guy's name is Keith Howard. I took great pleasure in sending the magazine in question a letter pointing out that a very similar horn was used in numerous JBL designs renowned for their lack of horn colouration and that the reviewer must be mistaken. Apparently the editor shot me down in flames but I've no idea as I refuse to waste a dollar fifty on yet more lavatory paper.

4313B
04-26-2007, 01:05 PM
I took great pleasure in sending the magazine in question a letter pointing out that a very similar horn was used in numerous JBL designs renowned for their lack of horn colouration and that the reviewer must be mistaken.That would seem to be the common consensus.

I refuse to waste a dollar fifty on yet more lavatory paper.You might wish to rethink that because if Sheryl has her way you might find you need some backup material.

dumdumboy
04-26-2007, 02:54 PM
The Array 1000 and 1400 were tested by German Audio Magazines Stereoplay and Stereo last year.

Their conclusion was that both Array 1000 and 1400 had virtually no horn
colouration.

Stereoplay: "The Array 1000 is the first horn speaker without any form of horn colouration"

Stereo: Array 1400..." a new culture of neutrality and purity of sound"

4313B
04-26-2007, 03:14 PM
Sounds familiar, no pun intended.

JBLRaiser
04-26-2007, 06:50 PM
'You might wish to rethink that because if Sheryl has her way you might find you need some backup material.'

Go find your own website, buster But, seriously, let's try to refrain from off topic comments. Or you will open the door to the great unwashed.:p

4313B
04-26-2007, 07:26 PM
Giskard doesn't get busted - think of it as a perpetual get out of jail free card.

The thread is titled "Off Topic Forum" and the post isn't off "off topic". It was in response to a certain viewpoint in which many people within the Audio industry hold certain Audio publications and correlates with a new movement (no pun intended) within the musical industry, fronted by a well known musical talent, to curtail the use of certain resources.

JBLRaiser
04-26-2007, 07:38 PM
Giskard doesn't get busted - think of it as a perpetual get out of jail free card.

The thread is titled "Off Topic Forum" and the post isn't off "off topic". It was in response to a certain viewpoint in which many people within the Audio industry hold certain Audio publications and correlates with a new movement (no pun intended) within the musical industry, fronted by a well known musical talent, to curtail the use of certain resources.

:drive:Just don't let it happen again.

4313B
04-26-2007, 07:47 PM
Okie Dokie!
Thanks for letting me off with a warning. :)

merlin
04-27-2007, 11:46 AM
:drive:Just don't let it happen again.

Come on! All he wants to do is have some fun.

Rolf
04-27-2007, 12:10 PM
Fun fun fun ... a friend for some ... and A NIGHTMARE to others!

4313B
04-27-2007, 12:43 PM
Fun fun fun ... a friend for some ... and A NIGHTMARE to others!Rolf... I have no clue what you are talking about. Your issues are long standing and well known. Despite that we continue to enjoy your participation here. :) The only thing I can think of is that you are still upset over the phone calls we had years ago wherein I refused to give you my bank account number. I think my refusal is understandable.

I have suggested several times to simply turn the entire forum over to you to run as you see fit since you obviously have the intellectual and moral fiber necessary and the suggestion was shot down without pause. I don't know what else to do for you. Maybe your own website with its own forum?

merlin
04-27-2007, 02:12 PM
There goes the neighbourhood.

We all know the damage forums can do. Maybe a change would do you good?

If it makes you happy, go home and soak up the sun - stay away from your PC if you are strong enough.

Titanium Dome
04-27-2007, 02:14 PM
I don't understand if your avatar's dress is wrinkled, or if it's bunched on purpose across her pelvis. :dont-know

The grille on Rolf's avatar is much smoother by comparison. :yes:

4313B
04-27-2007, 02:42 PM
I don't understand if your avatar's dress is wrinkled, or if it's bunched on purpose across her pelvis. :dont-know

The grille on Rolf's avatar is much smoother by comparison. :yes:Oh, here is the actual size so you can see better then. Why do you and Rolf have such an interest in my avatar? It's just an avatar.

kingjames
04-27-2007, 03:05 PM
Giskard, It's called humor!:D

jim campbell
04-27-2007, 03:18 PM
I don't understand if your avatar's dress is wrinkled, or if it's bunched on purpose across her pelvis. :dont-know

The grille on Rolf's avatar is much smoother by comparison. :yes:dome you must be gettin old,the last thing i see in that pic is the dress...........

Ian Mackenzie
04-27-2007, 03:19 PM
Will you guys stop playing with his buttons.

Why this thread is not closed is beyond me.

Ian

dumdumboy
04-27-2007, 03:29 PM
BELLA BELLUCCI !!

SEAWOLF97
04-27-2007, 03:34 PM
Why this thread is not closed is beyond me.

Ian

THIS is the NEW OT forum ?

Rolf
04-27-2007, 03:34 PM
Rolf... I have no clue what you are talking about. Your issues are long standing and well known. Despite that we continue to enjoy your participation here. :) The only thing I can think of is that you are still upset over the phone calls we had years ago wherein I refused to give you my bank account number. I think my refusal is understandable.

I have suggested several times to simply turn the entire forum over to you to run as you see fit since you obviously have the intellectual and moral fiber necessary and the suggestion was shot down without pause. I don't know what else to do for you. Maybe your own website with its own forum?

A joke Giskard... have you seen Excalibur? ... Merlin? When he says: "A dream some ... a nightmare to other" ??

Titanium Dome
04-27-2007, 03:41 PM
Oh, here is the actual size so you can see better then. Why do you and Rolf have such an interest in my avatar? It's just an avatar.

I'm not sure about Rolf's interest or even if he expressed one, but suddenly I found the avatar more interesting than the thread.

Thanks for posting the classic ad as well. The similarities are evident, but the differences are much more suggestive.

The classic ad has the model addressing the product with her body, an intimate pose with great tactile composition. He eyes are turned away, not even looking direct at the reader/observer and accenting an air of satisfying reverie. It has an air of the voyeur.

The Everest II ad is much more direct, haughty, challenging to the reader/observer. The model doesn't even address or connect to the product; rather, she is suggestive of the product: its power, its sophistication, its demand for special recognition, and its promise of untold pleasure if handled right. It has an air of sexual fantasy.

And you wonder why I'm interested... :rotfl:

hjames
04-27-2007, 03:41 PM
A joke Giskard... have you seen Excalibur? ... Merlin? When he says: "A dream some ... a nightmare to other" ??

Yeah He's not being Demoncratic enough ...
Vote him off the Island - Dump the G-man ... :applaud:

In the end, there can be only one, is that it??

4313B
04-27-2007, 03:42 PM
A joke Giskard... have you seen Excalibur? ... Merlin? When he says: "A dream some ... a nightmare to other" ??When it first came out. Not since then.

Rolf
04-27-2007, 03:52 PM
When it first came out. Not since then.

Dooo. I watch it from time to time. by the way, I have never commented your avatar.