Uses for the JBL Registry?

[glen]

For awhile now the JBL registry has been growing on two fronts: the Serial Number Registry Thread, and Hofmannhp's JBL Registry Database.

We'd like to open up a discussion about how the JBL Registry data might be put to productive use. If we can decide what purposes the registry might best be put to it will help focus our data gathering and organizing efforts.

It may take some time before there is enough data to make the registry effective for some jobs, but having agreed upon goals should insure that it will be useful as soon as possible.

My initial goal in starting the Serial Number Registry thread was to accumulate enough raw data to reliably associate serial numbers with manufacturing dates. I was able to gather enough info to decifer the early date-code numbering system (or at least form a good working hypothesis)

Hofmannhp has built and maintained the JBL Registry Database which has been able not only to date components by serial number, but also establish a sort of "pedigree" of ownership as JBL speakers change hands. Like going to public records to trace the ownership of land as it is deeded from one owner to the next, it has been helpful in determining if ebay sales are valid or suspicious.

How else could we use the registry?:hmm:

[Ferrari]

Glen,

My needs were simple when I found this Forum. I wanted a way to find the value and age of my Speakers and Cabinets. I think many people find "Good Deals" and want to assure themselves they have spent their money wisely.

I will use the registry and then the library as a shopping guide. (But the two could be combined on the spreadsheet into one source)

Hope this helps give direction to your quest

Ferrari

[glen]

Glen,

I will use the registry and then the library as a shopping guide. (But the two could be combined on the spreadsheet into one source)

Hope this helps give direction to your quest

Ferrari
Thanks Ferrari,

This IS a help.

Usually I search finished ebay auctions, but that's not always fruitful with rare items, and sometimes pictures are no longer available so it's hard to judge condition. And ebay eventually removes the old listings completely.

To be an effective shopping guide we might need to track some data I have not been including in the serial number thread:
sale price
date of sale
location of sale
condition of item
(maybe the pictures in the registry thread illustrate the condition well enough?)

Unlike the serial numbers, component originality and dates of manufacture these bits of shopping guide info are most useful when they are current, and less useful when they are out of date. I have not always been timely about the material I've been adding to the serial number thread, concentrating on info that was more historical than current

Which brings us to how timely access to the registry might be, which I believe is still an open question, though hofmannHP may have formed some ideas about it as he has been answering questions about his database.

[doyall]

... How else could we use the registry?:hmm:

To find stolen equipment.

Unfortunately that's why I am leary of posting numbers for some of mine. While I think he was honest, I do not know anything about the person who sold me my L250's or the history of the units, so ...

[hjames]

To find stolen equipment.

Unfortunately that's why I am leary of posting numbers for some of mine. While I think he was honest, I do not know anything about the person who sold me my L250's or the history of the units, so ...

I have no problems with the few trusted folks that manage the database keeping track of the serial numbers I submit. I like they idea that they can track a range of serial numbers across numerous years

However, I don't want too specific info available to the general public in any real open fashion. Its the crow syndrome - there's just too many folks who have eyes for shiny things ...

[Zilch]

I had this all figured out at one time (:p ), and sent my ideas to Don.

It involved a fee for 30-day access to the short-form (no info on who's got what) database as means to support the site. That includes the right to say: "Listed in the LHF registry."

If you're a seller wanting to know the latest and best info, you pay again....

[Steve Schell]

I see the Lansing Heritage Registry (how's that for a fancy title?) as being useful for dating a particular driver; dating a particular system; verifying the originality of drivers in a system, and also eventually being able to make an educated guess as to how many of a given product were manufactured.

Much of this might seem like knowledge of interest only to speaker geeks, but as time moves on and many JBL systems continue to achieve status as collectibles, this information will be of increasing value. It is also unavailable elsewhere, as the JBL archives were lost as we know.

As the Registry data continues to fill in this site will become the "Antiques Roadshow" for classic JBLs. Are there plans to make the Registry data available on the site? Doing so would likely increase site traffic and renown beyond its current status.

[Hofmannhp]

Hi All,

first of all....thanks for your good comments.

now here are some reasons for the registry:

1. We want to collect all serial numbers to know and learn more about the numbering system (thanks to Glen who dechiffred some numbering systems)

2. All numbers in a column allow us to date them with +- 1/2 year now for the fabrication period. Many members asked in the meantime for the age of their speakers or drivers and in most cases we could help them.

3. There are some more questions we want to find out from the original JBL numbering system. F.e. numbering jumps for the Paragon etc. What was the difference in the systems.

4. In some cases we found fraudly intentions of listed equipment cause the real ebay deal was months or weeks before. (see the threads for this)

5. There is NO interest in learning more about business JBL sellers. Some of them are appreciated Forum members and they add a positive bonus for their sales activities by posting the numbers. Maybe as a result of the existance of the registry.

Now the registry contains about 4750 items. With this, we now have more knowledge than the JBL company at this time.
I talked about this with Greg Timbers few weeks ago and he told me that they have no recordings like this in the house.

HP

[Hofmannhp]

Hi again,

I feel the need to give an answer to some of the comments made here.

to doyall:
I understand this completely.....but, if this is the reason why only 10% of the forum members have sent or posted their numbers, we can derive, that 90% of the forums members equipment is stolen.:D :D

to Heather:
I agree with your words about opening of the registry.
That's why I think it should be only forum internal and answers to questions about numbers are ok, but only for the numbers of this specific user. No names.

to Zilch:
a good idea to earn some bucks for the forums treasure. I also mentioned about a similar idea in a PM to Widget. My idea was to sell little adhesive labels with "registered in the LHF" for....lets say 1$. This labels can be used on drivers and cabs.....just an idea. About 20,000 JBL items in the forum, means 20,000 $.

to Steve Schell:
I agree completely

HP

[glen]

I don't want too specific info available to the general public in any real open fashion. Its the crow syndrome - there's just too many folks who have eyes for shiny things ...

I think you have a genuine concern Heather.
I have JBL's from 50 to 30 years old with no idea where those speakers have been 99 percent of that time. (I'm going to start another thread about that which will likely make everyone paranoid).

So , acknowledgeing the concern about murky ownership history, let's talk about what information to restrict and how to restrict it.

Currrently the information about who owns a particular system and where it is located is not made public from the registry even if that information was revealed on a public source (ebay, craigs list or this forum).
Maybe we should formalize those restrictions:
1. No Names, the current owner of an item in the registry will never be disclosed.
2. No Locations, current location of an item or it's owner will not be revealed.

Access is personally controlled by HP and he has been very comendably cautious in handling his Database as we can expect him to be in the future.

What other restrictions are needed to allow folks to have more confidence that Registry information will not be abused?

[Steve Schell]

I certainly agree that no owners' names should be associated with any of the Registry listings that appear online. Listing model numbers, serial numbers and approximate dates of manufacture would be sufficient for those who would make use of the Registry for research.

4750 items... now that's impressive. A friend of mine attempted to start a registry a couple of years ago for the RCA MI-1428B / MI-1443 field coil compression drivers. He received exactly ONE entry for one pair of drivers, plus thousands of junk spam posts.

[glen]

To find stolen equipment.
The registry could be very helpful if the stolen item was already in the registry including serial numbers of the system components so that speakers can be identified even if they are parted out.



Unfortunately that's why I am leary of posting numbers for some of mine. While I think he was honest, I do not know anything about the person who sold me my L250's or the history of the units, so ...

I think your fear is very common, and I've started a thread about it here:
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=15937

I believe the situation that you are concerned about is extremely unlikely, and only a law enforcement agency could compel you to turn over the questionable items without actually taking the claim to court.

Maintaining a list of stolen items might be one way to protect ourselves, but I think such a listing of missing items would be separate from the registry.

[glen]

I see the Lansing Heritage Registry (how's that for a fancy title?) as being useful for dating a particular driver; dating a particular system; verifying the originality of drivers in a system, and also eventually being able to make an educated guess as to how many of a given product were manufactured.
These are exactly the issues that I am most interested in myself, and also the kind of info that I would like to make safely accessible if we can agree how that might happen.


Much of this might seem like knowledge of interest only to speaker geeks,
Yes, I'm here:bouncy:


but as time moves on and many JBL systems continue to achieve status as collectibles, this information will be of increasing value.
Let me say one thing about 'value', since folks have proposed fees and subscriptions. I DON'T like the idea of charging for this information, for me the value is in how the registry adds to our knowledge about the vintage system and raises the standards for accurately identifying speakers and parts. This is a benefit to everyone in our community.

[glen]

I had this all figured out at one time (:p ), and sent my ideas to Don.

It involved a fee for 30-day access to the short-form (no info on who's got what) database as means to support the site. That includes the right to say: "Listed in the LHF registry."

If you're a seller wanting to know the latest and best info, you pay again....
So the guys who are making the most money flipping Lansing equipment will be in the best position to exploit the registry info??:blink:
That just doesn't sound right to me.
Dammit Zilch, you've been fantastically generous sharing you your work and knowledge with everybody . . . I just don't get it.
We could probably have raised more money charging for access to your horn/driver test results

[Zilch]

We've seen at least one instance of where a seller perceived there was monitary value to their items being registered here enough to use it for promotional purposes. Now, I don't know if there actually IS such value, but I do see how a sort of "legitimacy" is conferred to items as a result of your effort here, and some benefit should accrue to the site for commercial exploitation of the database.

I suppose if it became de rigueur for sellers to register their items before listing, the task of acquiring the data would be somewhat eased, but, comparing the information needs of the members here, which do not appear to require specific serial numbers, versus those of sellers and resellers, who DO require them, it seems that an appropriate discrimination between free and paid access might be made, for the benefit of all....

[Steve Schell]

When I say the Registry information will be of increasing value, I don't mean to imply that we should charge for access. Perhaps utility would be a better word.

For those who cringe at the thought of all the JBL systems being parted out these days, consider that if original, intact systems become more valuable then fewer will be taken apart. The Registry may eventually become a well known resource for authenticating original systems, augmenting their worth. As with most things, economics dictate the future of these items as they change hands.

[johnhb]

I see sellers on Ebay saying their speakers are registered with the audio heritage website. I have only found threads about a possible registry.

[Hofmannhp]

I see sellers on Ebay saying their speakers are registered with the audio heritage website. I have only found threads about a possible registry.

The Registry is non official and not posted in the forum in cause of data security. So it can also be with your speakers and drivers..:)

If you have any questions about drivers or speakers, years of fabrication or....pls send a PM to me.

regards

HP

[Hofmannhp]

Hi members,

just playing around with the listings......
JBL built the following numbers of drivers in the years:

075
-from 1955 to 1957 2000 pcs p/y
-from 1959 to 1962 3100 pcs p/y
-from 1962 to 1965 4000 pcs p/y
-from 1968 to 1973 5500 pcs p/y

2405
-from 1976 to 1980 16400 pcs p/y

077
-from 1974 to 1979 12800 pcs p/y

D130
-from 1956 to 1957 23000 pcs p/y
-from 1960 to 1965 5000 pcs p/y ?
-from 1965 to 1973 2600 pcs p/y
-from 1973 to 1980 14200 pcs p/y

375
-from 1954 to 1955 2500 pcs p/y
-from 1955 to 1959 450 pcs p/y
-from 1968 to 1974 3600 pcs p/y

that's it for now.....thanks for your help

HP

[kingjames]

Good work HP, thanks for the hard work that goes in such things as this.

[jim campbell]

is there any known record of how many big monitors were built say l300,4343,4344,4350,4435,..............etc

[Hofmannhp]

is there any known record of how many big monitors were built say l300,4343,4344,4350,4435,..............etc

Hi Jim,

it's not that easy at this time for the big monitors.
- L300 from 1975 to 1978 about 13,000 pcs (when there were no numbering jumps !!)
-4333A from 1973 to 1979 about 3,000 pcs
-4350 (incl. A) from 1973 to 1982 we count about 1,800 pcs
-4435 its impossible to say.
There are a lot of numbering jumps like from 10xxx to 250xxx in one year, and from 258xxx to 264xxx in one year, also from 282xxx to 429xxx. there are still white places in the list between some numbers.

let's look forward

HP

[jim campbell]

i am just curious as to how many were built and what percentage of those may be still out there.........might shed some light on deciding to buy/not buy for some of the guys who are still waiting for their dream system to appear,mint,in factory boxes, for 200 bucks,free delivery..........etc etc.....one would think that big ticket items like these would be stored rather than tossed by most but who knows...........