250 TI's.

[JBLforlife]

Hello Everyone,
I have been lurking around here for a while without posting so I just wanted to show some PICS of my 20 year old beauties. I bought them new
back in 1987 from an Audio store in NYC. They have lots of miles on them but still look like new and play like new. I had the woofers re-coned last year and hope they last another 20. As my username says I have been around JBL speakers my whole life and have owned nothing but. I have had about 8 different models of J's but currently I own these 250 TI's and a set of 18 TI bookshelfs that are like brand new too. Glad to be aboard here and enjoy the pics.

JBL for life.

[Storm]

Very nice, indeed!

Love that gear rack! - What is the amp and preamp?

Thanks.

;)

-Storm.

[sourceoneaudio]

Hello Everyone,
I have been lurking around here for a while without posting so I just wanted to show some PICS of my 20 year old beauties. I bought them new
back in 1987 from an Audio store in NYC. They have lots of miles on them but still look like new and play like new. I had the woofers re-coned last year and hope they last another 20. As my username says I have been around JBL speakers my whole life and have owned nothing but. I have had about 8 different models of J's but currently I own these 250 TI's and a set of 18 TI bookshelfs that are like brand new too. Glad to be aboard here and enjoy the pics.

JBL for life.

Welcome aboard. Nice pieces of wood you got there. Those are Teeeek Correct? :applaud:

L@@ks GREAT!

J/S-S1A

[kingjames]

Beautiful looking speakers, I guess I'm kind of partial to them.:D

Welcome aboard and you're in the right place (anthing and everything JBL).

[Storm]

Welcome aboard. Nice pieces of wood you got there. Those are Teeeek Correct? :applaud:

Very nice indeed!

J/S-S1A

No Jeff, they are BIRCH.

:rotfl:

-Storm

[sourceoneaudio]

No Jeff, they are BIRCH.

:rotfl:

-Storm

That is a definite no on that one.........:p

J/S-S1A :D

[SEAWOLF97]

No Jeff, they are BIRCH.

:rotfl:

-Storm

somebody get him a wood chart. :rotfl: :rotfl: :shock:

[sourceoneaudio]

somebody get him a wood chart. :rotfl: :rotfl: :shock:


Now that is F@#$%^& funny!!!!!!!!


J/S-S1A :blink:

[JBLforlife]

Thanks to Everyone for the Comps.

My Amp and Pre-Amp are Perraux 3450 amp and SM5 pre-amp. I went through 4 different makes of Power equipment to find the right ones to drive these 250's. I found the right stuff.

Glad to be aboard and everyone makes it so easy to be here. Thanks.

JBL for life.

[opimax]

Back on topic, as a fellow 250Ti owner welcome to the group. Wish mine looked 1/2 as good as yours :applaud: .

Any other TI or JBL equipment?:bouncy:

Mark

[JBLforlife]

Back on topic, as a fellow 250Ti owner welcome to the group. Wish mine looked 1/2 as good as yours :applaud: .

Any other TI or JBL equipment?:bouncy:

Mark



Thanks for the welcome. I also have a set of JBL 18 TI bookshelf speakers
that are in new condition. I use them on my system in the bedroom. I have owned many other JBL speakers in the past but that was before I got the 250's in 1987.

JBLforlife

[Titanium Dome]

It's always nice to see another pair of those truly classic enclosures and read about someone who enjoys them so much.

If you don't mind, elaborate on why the Perreaux is such a good match. I've wondered about Perreuax gear so your experience will be informative.

[Andyoz]

Are your grilles black or dark brown?...they look black in the pictures but it may the camera/my monitor?

[glen]

Beautiful speakers JBLforlife!
You have sure kept them in great shape!
Can you please tell me their serial numbers (and driver serials if you know them) for the Serial Number Thread?
Or post the info there yourself, if you're so inclined.
Thanks,

[JBLforlife]

It's always nice to see another pair of those truly classic enclosures and read about someone who enjoys them so much.

If you don't mind, elaborate on why the Perreaux is such a good match. I've wondered about Perreuax gear so your experience will be informative.

Thanks for the reply. I tried other Amp setups but none of them seemed to drive the low end well because of the low damping factor. These speakers with the 14" low end driver need an Amp with some high damping factor to move this driver. If you have low damping factor the Bass response will be slow and muddy. I started with a Denon Amp and that was the worst. It just could not move this driver well. I next went to a Yamaha Amp with the same results. The Japanese equipment for the most part do not have high damping factors for their Amps. Next I went to a Bryston 4B. Much better Amp with higher damping and it drove these speakers well. What I did not like about the Bryston was that it was a cold sounding Amp. I wanted something that Warm and Tube-Like to drive these 250"s. I bought my first Perreaux amp back in 1988 and it was the 2350. It worked so much better than the previous Amps had driven this speaker that I knew this was the equipment for me. Plus the Perreaux amps are very warm sounding and they sound almost Tube-Like. I did not have the money at the time to buy a Tube Amp but I would have liked to. A nice Krell amp would have done the job. Anyway I upgraded in 1994 to the 3450 and I have been happy ever since. I see that Perreaux is back selling in the USA and they have new models of my current equipment. Unfortunately it would cost me about 6-8k to upgrade. I am staying with my current equipment. Hope that helps. Sorry for the long Rant.

JBLforlife

[JBLforlife]

Are your grilles black or dark brown?...they look black in the pictures but it may the camera/my monitor?

Yes they do look somewhat gray/black in those pics. They are the Dark Brown
grilles though. Thanks for the reply.

JBLforlife

[JBLforlife]

Beautiful speakers JBLforlife!
You have sure kept them in great shape!
Can you please tell me their serial numbers (and driver serials if you know them) for the Serial Number Thread?
Or post the info there yourself, if you're so inclined.
Thanks,

Thanks for the compliment. I dont have the Driver serial numbers recorded but the Serial #'s on the speakers are 02618 and 05971. Hope that helps.

Thanks Again,

JBLforlife

[mike]

I agree, that woofer needs an amp with enough damping factor to control it.
Surprisingly though I've driven my 250Ti's with a few different vintage tube amps with good results, even though they really don't have much damping ability. It seems to me that the 250Ti is so neutral that a little coloration from the electronics driving them is usually a good thing.

Nice speakers,

Mike

[varice]

Nice set of speakers. I also have a 250Ti system, but finished in teak. Your birch cabinets look very beautiful. Are they treated with wood oil only or do they have another finish?

Varice

[JBLforlife]

I agree, that woofer needs an amp with enough damping factor to control it.
Surprisingly though I've driven my 250Ti's with a few different vintage tube amps with good results, even though they really don't have much damping ability. It seems to me that the 250Ti is so neutral that a little coloration from the electronics driving them is usually a good thing.

Nice speakers,

Mike


Thanks,
I have heard that about Tube Amps with these 250's. That is why I was interested back then in getting a Tube Amp but it just was not in my budget. Perreaux Amps have always been known to be warm and tube like and I have been very happy with them over the last 20 years. I also have a Tube CD player the AH Njoe TjoeB 4000 and that helps too. That is the one thing I have always liked about the 250's is how neutral they are. I do prefer a warmer tube like sound and that is why the Bryston Amp did not work that well for me.

JBLforlife

[SEAWOLF97]

, Your birch cabinets look very beautiful.
Varice

AFAWK...JBL never made anything in Birch. Beech maybe, or maple or teak, but not birch. One of our members has a fixation with birch.

Birch is generally used for cheap kitchen cabinets, not fine speakers. :)

[johnaec]

Birch is generally used for cheap kitchen cabinets, not fine speakers. :)A slight correction - Baltic birch is used more than anything else for pro speaker cabinets, (there are plenty of fine ones), that is, the multi-ply stuff is used - not the cheap stuff you get at Home Depot. Of course, they usually end up with a black Duratex finish... ;)

John

[JBLforlife]

Nice set of speakers. I also have a 250Ti system, but finished in teak. Your birch cabinets look very beautiful. Are they treated with wood oil only or do they have another finish?

Varice

Thanks. My 250 Ti's are Teak finish and since they were bought new in 1987 I have only used Teak Wood oil on them. That is why they have stayed nice and I never gave them a chance to dry out. I think they made the 250 TI in one other wood finish and I believe it was a Black Rosewood. Someone correct me if I am wrong. I also believe they made a set of 250's in Black Acrylic laminate but not sure about that either. Unless some of the earlier L250 versions had another wood finish that I am not aware of.

JBLforlife

[varice]

Thanks. My 250 Ti's are Teak finish and since they were bought new in 1987 I have only used Teak Wood oil on them. That is why they have stayed nice and I never gave them a chance to dry out. I think they made the 250 TI in one other wood finish and I believe it was a Black Rosewood. Someone correct me if I am wrong. I also believe they made a set of 250's in Black Acrylic laminate but not sure about that either. Unless some of the earlier L250 versions had another wood finish that I am not aware of.

JBLforlife

Storm was joking about the birch wood! :o: I need to be more careful with my reading.

Your picture of the right speaker looks alot my cabinets, but the left one looks much different to me.

Varice

[SEAWOLF97]

Storm was joking about the birch wood! :o: IVarice

no. actually there is a long history of flame wars with Storm and his opinions on birch, as he had Atecs in unfinished birch and .......

[Zilch]

... then he changed his mind.

[After considered deliberation. Heh, heh.... :D ]

[kingjames]

How can one tell if the finish is teak or walnut? I believe mine with the low serial numbers were made in 1984 or 1985, I just assumed mine were walnut. Come on all you wood pro's with your expertise. Thanks!

[macaroonie]

Walnut tends to be darker than teak although some varieties can be very similar. Both will bleach and yellow with sunlight hence old walnut cabinets can look very similar to newish teak.

[JBLforlife]

Storm was joking about the birch wood! :o: I need to be more careful with my reading.

Your picture of the right speaker looks alot my cabinets, but the left one looks much different to me.

Varice

I kind of figured they were kidding. Probably when I took those photos the lighting on the left was affected by my front picture window. Both are similar in color but the contrast of the grain is greater on the front of the left speaker and kind of flat on the right speaker so it makes them look different.

JBLforlife

[kingjames]

Walnut tends to be darker than teak although some varieties can be very similar. Both will bleach and yellow with sunlight hence old walnut cabinets can look very similar to newish teak.

Based on this evidence mine would have to be teak and not Walnut.:blink:

[Andyoz]

Based on this evidence mine would have to be teak and not Walnut.:blink:

I'm sure your 250's are teak as they look just like mine.

The L250's I just bought are walnut and look COMPLETELY different to my teak 250Ti's.

[kingjames]

I'm sure your 250's are teak as they look just like mine.

The L250's I just bought are walnut and look COMPLETELY different to my teak 250Ti's.

And I thank you for your time.:D

[JBLforlife]

Does anyone have any more info about these 14" woofers that JBL had produced for the TI's. Is this just rumor or has JBL made these drivers and sold out of them. Any Help/Info is appreciated.

Thanks,

JBLforlife

[250Ti only]

They look great. Noticed they're not on spikes or cones. Mine, bought new as well, improved dramatically with 3 aluminum cones. There is a lot of sound improvement to be had from your stock speakers. They are not well braced compared to todays better offerings and extra bracing is uncannily effective for these big boxes. The drivers are "vastly" superior to the boxes. Clarity, dynamics, and bass improve dramatically with bracing and mass.

[250Ti only]

They look great. Noticed they're not on spikes or cones. Mine, bought new as well, improved dramatically with 3 aluminum cones. There is a lot of sound improvement to be had from your stock speakers. They are not well braced compared to todays better offerings and extra bracing is uncannily effective for these big boxes. The drivers are "vastly" superior to the boxes. Clarity, dynamics, and bass improve dramatically with bracing and mass.

[varice]

Does anyone have any more info about these 14" woofers that JBL had produced for the TI's. Is this just rumor or has JBL made these drivers and sold out of them. Any Help/Info is appreciated.

Thanks,

JBLforlife

The original 14" driver for the 250Ti was the LE14H-1. If you search this forum for this model you will find additional info. AFAIK, JBL no longer builds the LE14H-1. It has been mentioned on the forum that the LE14H-3 may be a very close replacement.

Varice

[JBLforlife]

The original 14" driver for the 250Ti was the LE14H-1. If you search this forum for this model you will find additional info. AFAIK, JBL no longer builds the LE14H-1. It has been mentioned on the forum that the LE14H-3 may be a very close replacement.

Varice

Thanks.

I know that JBL does not build the LE14H-1 driver anymore and I did see the thread about the possible replacement. Just wanted to know if its been built or not and if its just rumor.

JBLforlife.

[sourceoneaudio]

Does anyone have any more info about these 14" woofers that JBL had produced for the TI's. Is this just rumor or has JBL made these drivers and sold out of them. Any Help/Info is appreciated.

Thanks,

JBLforlife


Here is the info for you to view.

http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=1400%20ARRAY%20BG&Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA&cat=BFS&ser=PTS

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/partlist.asp?BrandId=JBL&MarketId=HOM&Parts=1400%20ARRAY%20BG

Part Number: 336321-001 http://www.harmanaudio.com/images/pixel/trans_pixel.gif Woofer http://www.harmanaudio.com/images/pixel/trans_pixel.gif $279.93 NOT AVAILABLE

Le14H-3 is currently used in the 1400 Array BG



J/S-S1A :D

[gerard]

Hello

While my 250 I biuld are not originals including the cross over (-le14a-le5-2118-035) xpl200 ) , Sound was good but I was disappointed by the speakers in high volumes using one transistor amp 120 watts .

Using bi amp thru passive Xover with 120 watts for bass and 40watts tube was much much better but still the bass was not that good .

Then I went to use an active crossover ( Rane ac22 ) and the bass was really much better but I still was running out of juice with the 40 watts tube .

next I change the 40 watts tube for rogues 120 watts tube .So my actual config is 120 Watts amp for bass - rane Ac22 - rogue 120 watts tube for high .

I have now : Good bass - The power you can expect at very high level and a 250 Ti sound ( I already check the 250 Ti sound in the Us ) .

This is only my personal experience and I am very far to be an expert .

Other source are Cyrus Cd 6 and Lenco 75 idler wheel Turntable with Rega tonearm ( much better than my Thorens and Empire troubadour ! )

Gerard

[JBLforlife]

Here is the info for you to view.

http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=1400%20ARRAY%20BG&Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA&cat=BFS&ser=PTS

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/partlist.asp?BrandId=JBL&MarketId=HOM&Parts=1400%20ARRAY%20BG

Part Number: 336321-001 http://www.harmanaudio.com/images/pixel/trans_pixel.gif Woofer http://www.harmanaudio.com/images/pixel/trans_pixel.gif $279.93 NOT AVAILABLELe14H-3 is currently used in the 1400 Array BG



J/S-S1A :D


Thanks for the Info.

[Allanvh5150]

Certainly a very nice pile of gear. I have used the "big" Perreaux amps for about 25 years. Although the old ones, 3000 6000 8000 and the audiophile equivalents, all used the Hitachi Mosfets which are now obselete, there hasnt been an amp sold since that can stand up to these. I have them in my system at home and I used to use them for live sound production. Dont worry about upgrading to a tube amp, simply because you will lack the power and you wont be happy. Unless of course you can lay you hands on a Mesa Boogie Baron or a Strategy 400! And you will pay rediculous money for a realy good audiophile tube amp. Sorry about using the word "Audiophile" here. I looked the word up in a dictionary and I found out that it is someone who pays huge money for not a lot. Each to their own I guess. But keep flying the Perreaux flag. Kiwis make the best power amps on the planet. Cheers.:)

[JBLforlife]

Certainly a very nice pile of gear. I have used the "big" Perreaux amps for about 25 years. Although the old ones, 3000 6000 8000 and the audiophile equivalents, all used the Hitachi Mosfets which are now obselete, there hasnt been an amp sold since that can stand up to these. I have them in my system at home and I used to use them for live sound production. Dont worry about upgrading to a tube amp, simply because you will lack the power and you wont be happy. Unless of course you can lay you hands on a Mesa Boogie Baron or a Strategy 400! And you will pay rediculous money for a realy good audiophile tube amp. Sorry about using the word "Audiophile" here. I looked the word up in a dictionary and I found out that it is someone who pays huge money for not a lot. Each to their own I guess. But keep flying the Perreaux flag. Kiwis make the best power amps on the planet. Cheers.:)

Thanks for the comp. I see that you are right from the land that builds the Perreuax Amps in New Zealand. I have a friend from there and would like to visit in the future. I always hear how beautiful it is there. I have the Hitachi Mosfet in my Amp. Its the T.O.3.P. I found that out early on with the Tube Amps that it would cost Big bucks to buy power with Tube Amps. I am just glad that I found Perreaux Amps. I have been a happy listener for 20 years now and my Perreaux equipment has been flawless. I had 2 Amps in that time period with the initial 2350 lasting a few years until I needed more power and upgraded. I see by your user-name that you have a 5150. That is one awesome powerful Amp. If I can find one for sale I would like to pick up a 5600 which was made the same time as my 3400. My 250 TI's would really like that power increase to 500. I am running 300 now and its great but I would not mind the extra Headroom. You are correct about the Audiophiles and I never could get used to that saying especially since most Audiohiles look down on JBL Speakers. I have owned nothing else but JBL in my life and my 250 Ti's are just perfect for the music that I listen to. I hear ya on those best Power Amps on the planet. For the money Perreuax is hard to beat. Considering that I only paid $3000 for my Amp and Pre-Amp over 15 years ago I can't replace them today for anywhere near that price. Have you seen the latest Perreaux equipment and what do you think?

Thanks for the reply,

JBLforlife

[sourceoneaudio]

Thanks for the reply. I tried other Amp setups but none of them seemed to drive the low end well because of the low damping factor. These speakers with the 14" low end driver need an Amp with some high damping factor to move this driver. If you have low damping factor the Bass response will be slow and muddy. I started with a Denon Amp and that was the worst. It just could not move this driver well. I next went to a Yamaha Amp with the same results. The Japanese equipment for the most part do not have high damping factors for their Amps. Next I went to a Bryston 4B. Much better Amp with higher damping and it drove these speakers well. What I did not like about the Bryston was that it was a cold sounding Amp. I wanted something that Warm and Tube-Like to drive these 250"s. I bought my first Perreaux amp back in 1988 and it was the 2350. It worked so much better than the previous Amps had driven this speaker that I knew this was the equipment for me. Plus the Perreaux amps are very warm sounding and they sound almost Tube-Like. I did not have the money at the time to buy a Tube Amp but I would have liked to. A nice Krell amp would have done the job. Anyway I upgraded in 1994 to the 3450 and I have been happy ever since. I see that Perreaux is back selling in the USA and they have new models of my current equipment. Unfortunately it would cost me about 6-8k to upgrade. I am staying with my current equipment. Hope that helps. Sorry for the long Rant.

JBLforlife


JBLforlife
Back in the day when you purchased you Perreaux did you ever try any Nakamichi gear? In 1989 the big boy was the PA-7AII and it retailed for $2500.00. The PA-5A is its little brother first generation, I have run it into the 250TI's with great results. You might be very surprised at what the PA-7AII can do for a Japanese power amp, with American influence. (Nelson Pass) Pass Labs. This was the gear we use too match up to JBL, and Kef back in 1989.
Here is a pic of the PA-7AII.

J/S-S1A :blink:

[JBLforlife]

JBLforlife
Back in the day when you purchased you Perreaux did you ever try any Nakamichi gear? In 1989 the big boy was the PA-7AII and it retailed for $2500.00. The PA-5A is its little brother first generation, I have run it into the 250TI's with great results. You might be very surprised at what the PA-7AII can do for a Japanese power amp, with American influence. (Nelson Pass) Pass Labs. This was the gear we use too match up to JBL, and Kef back in 1989.
Here is a pic of the PA-7AII.

J/S-S1A :blink:



Sourceoneaudio,
Nakamichi makes great equipment. The Japanese equipment that I would refer to as not driving the 250's that well would be Yamaha, Denon, and some others in that Mid-end HiFi equipment. They are just too short on the Power and Punch to drive these Ti's. I found Perreaux to be the warmest sounding non-Tube Amps and closest to sounding like Tube Amps which makes the 250's sound so sweet. If money was no object I really like Krell Amps and while they are awesome Power Amps $11000 back then was a bit too much for me to spend. I spent $1850 for my 3400 brand new and its been the best money I have spent in Audio equipment since the 250's. 15 years driving the 250's and never one hint of any problems. It still runs and looks like brand new. I listened to alot of great equipment back then when I was looking for a Power Amp. I was turned off by Japanese equipment after having the Yamaha and Denon amps on my Ti's so I never did get to hear the Nakamichi amps. I know that there is a lot of great equipment out there today but as long as the Perreaux is running strong I wont be changing gear any time soon.

Thanks for the reply,

JBLforlife

[opimax]

I sure hope you guys are right about the Perreaux amps, just bought a 6000b on ebay. I will be running the 250ti off the sony str-da9000 pre amp outs to the 6000b for the front speakers.

Jeff, it is cheaper than the Nak or the adcom 5802, couple years older though.

Mark