Subwoofer suggestions?

[57BELAIRE]

Recently I picked up a pair of L212 satellites and need some suggestions for a compatible subwoofer.

With so many choices out there it boggles the mind...I mean,
Performance Series, Northridge Series, Harmon home theater...
I have some 145's sittin' around that might do...I just don't know:blink:

Powered or passive? I'm open for anything.

I'd love to have an original glass top beauty, but the chances
of finding one are slim besides with todays technology,
there might be something better.

By the way, the seller had the mid-woofs refoamed and was
disappointed with the sound so when I got them home I opened
them up (also to log some serial #'s for HofmannHP) and
discovered they were out of phase.....:D

That 8 in. 112 is something to behold....here it is next to an LE8T

I'd appreciate any ideas.

[grumpy]

Music, HT, both? Brand loyalty? Price range? New/old? Finished/DIY? room size?
space available/desired? single/dual/quad? case of SUB1500's sitting around :)

How LOW... do you wanna GO? ;) -grumpy

[sourceoneaudio]

Here is a couple PSW-D112's that l@@k to be in great condition in Cali. Might be very close to you??? This is a smoken price.........

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?homesubw&1181801022

NO: AFIL:

J/S-S1A :D

[57BELAIRE]

Music, HT, both? Brand loyalty? Price range? New/old? Finished/DIY? room size?
space available/desired? single/dual/quad? case of SUB1500's sitting around :)

How LOW... do you wanna GO? ;) -grumpy
grumpy

I'm not real picky but something that would compliment the sats.
They are very neutral but also can gobble some watts.

The SUB1500 has had a lot of mention around here so I'll start
there with a search. :bouncy:

[sourceoneaudio]

grumpy

I'm not real picky but something that would compliment the sats.
They are very neutral but also can gobble some watts.

The SUB1500 has had a lot of mention around here so I'll start
there with a search. :bouncy:


If that is the Array 1500 you are looking at? I remember stating the retail on that piece is 4k??? Don't quote me on that. The ones I mentioned above will will great wit any sat system, and they look all original. Woofers look stock. Zilch told me the woofer for the PSW-D115 is still ava. from JBL at a cost over $400.00. So those PSW-D112's are a killer deal.........$$$

J/S-S1A :D

[57BELAIRE]

Here is a couple PSW-D112's that l@@k to be in great condition in Cali. Might be very close to you??? This is a smoken price.........

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?homesubw&1181801022

NO: AFIL:

J/S-S1A :D

Thanks S1A,

I did a search on Audio Review.com and came away with these
impressions: Great rumble but amp problems...blown fuses,no sound, etc.

I like the idea of a powered sub but maybe not this one...:dont-know

[sourceoneaudio]

Thanks S1A,

I did a search on Audio Review.com and came away with these
impressions: Great rumble but amp problems...blown fuses,no sound, etc.

I like the idea of a powered sub but maybe not this one..:dont-know.

No problemo: Let me see what else I can find???????? If I run across something else that might cause excitement I'll post it for you.

http://cgi.ebay.com/B-W-ASW600-Active-Subwoofer-New-in-Box-1-month-old_W0QQitemZ300101478373QQihZ020QQcategoryZ3275QQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/B-W-ASW650-Sorrento_W0QQitemZ120107771061QQihZ002QQcategoryZ3 275QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

No AFIL:
J/S-S1A :D

[grumpy]

I'd shoot for two, if you have the place for 'em.

Some light reading, if you haven't already:

http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5433&highlight=L212

http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=3089&highlight=L212

http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=18306&postcount=9

Might want to seek MJC's input/current thoughts as well.

-grumpy

[sourceoneaudio]

Two of these will rock your world in the right enclosure also. This is the direction I went. They are ava. in a 10" 12" and a 15" Check out my thread.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-JBL-W12GTi-MkII-12-SUBWOOFER-4000W-CAR-SUB_W0QQitemZ270110728399QQihZ017QQcategoryZ18803Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

NO AFIL:

J/S-S1A :D

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=15201

[57BELAIRE]

No problemo: Let me see what else I can find???????? If I run across something else that might cause excitement I'll post it for you.

http://cgi.ebay.com/B-W-ASW600-Active-Subwoofer-New-in-Box-1-month-old_W0QQitemZ300101478373QQihZ020QQcategoryZ3275QQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/B-W-ASW650-Sorrento_W0QQitemZ120107771061QQihZ002QQcategoryZ3 275QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

No AFIL:
J/S-S1A :D

Thanks.....I think I'm headed for a powered sub.

Years ago I had a three-way electrostatic system with an 18 in.
Cerwin Vega sub. It was only 100 watts but could shake the foundation.:bouncy:

[sourceoneaudio]

Thanks.....I think I'm headed for a powered sub.

Years ago I had a three-way electrostatic system with an 18 in.
Cerwin Vega sub. It was only 100 watts but could shake the foundation.:bouncy:

You are welcome. The second choice looks like a nice piece of gear. B&W makes some very nice, and great sounding gear. My other choice for powered subs are either Velodyne, or Klipsch. The Klipsch RSW line is AWESOME. I use them quite a bit and they get the job done in a big way. Good luck with your search.

RSW-10
RSW-12
RSW-15


http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-unopened-Klipsch-RSW-10-powered-subwoofer-in-black_W0QQitemZ150111856790QQihZ005QQcategoryZ1499 2QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

NO AFIL:

J/S-S1A

[57BELAIRE]

I'd shoot for two, if you have the place for 'em.

Some light reading, if you haven't already:

http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5433&highlight=L212

http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=3089&highlight=L212

http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=18306&postcount=9

Might want to seek MJC's input/current thoughts as well.


-grumpy

Thanks grumpy....especially the last one that has Giskard
mentioning the Citation 7.4 (LE14H-1).

I've got a couple of those.....they've been under my nose
the whole time :p

[GordonW]

Thanks S1A,

I did a search on Audio Review.com and came away with these
impressions: Great rumble but amp problems...blown fuses,no sound, etc.

I like the idea of a powered sub but maybe not this one...:dont-know

I can vouch for those sort of problems with the D112. Seen several with amps blown beyond repair...

LE14-1s should make quite good subwoofers... that sounds like the best idea I've seen in this thread so far...

Regards,
Gordon.

[57BELAIRE]

I can vouch for those sort of problems with the D112. Seen several with amps blown beyond repair...

LE14-1s should make quite good subwoofers... that sounds like the best idea I've seen in this thread so far...

Regards,
Gordon.
Thanks....I'm wondering what a good crossover frequency
would be.
I think the original was around 70Hz....that really allows the 112.to bloom and operate as a true 4-way system.

I've got a couple of 3110's but they only go down to 800. :blink:

Lets see what happens...

[sourceoneaudio]

Thanks....I'm wondering what a good crossover frequency
would be.
I think the original was around 70Hz....that really allows the 112.to bloom and operate as a true 4-way system.

I've got a couple of 3110's but they only go down to 800. :blink:

Lets see what happens...


You'll blow them up!!!!!!!!! :( If you are thinking of using them at all in a HT application they will not handle the LFE information, that is depending on the volume you like to listen at, and the power input used. ??? In a three channel application you should be OK? Also depends again on if you like it loud. Low to medium volume's you should be safe.

J/S-S1A :D

[57BELAIRE]

You'll blow them up!!!!!!!!! :( If you are thinking of using them at all in a HT application they will not handle the LFE information, that is depending on the volume you like to listen at, and the power input used. ??? In a three channel application you should be OK? Also depends again on if you like it loud. Low to medium volume's you should be safe.

J/S-S1A :D

:blink: I'll blow the 3110's? Please clarify....I'd hate to cause damage because of my ineptitude.

I just want a sub that compliments the sats at all volumes and I
think the LE14s might be a good place to start.

I appreciate the interest

[grumpy]

Think the reference was toward the LE14's... HT subwoofer duty can get
pretty extreme in regard to effects. I was thinking this was going to be first
and foremost a music system. Could always add LFE-specific subs later :)

-grumpy

[MJC]

My choice for subs are the SUB1500, I used two of them for my 7 channel all L212 system. The 1500s are VLF subs they easily shake the floor using a Crown K2 800wpc amp. They are also very good with music, as they should be, they were used in Revel subs. The LE14-1~3 would be good also. I'm currently using an original B212 in a stereo L212 system. I broke up the 7channel system(5 new PT800 took over the HT)

But if you really want to make those L212s purr, you have to do at least 2 of 3 things. I did all 3. they are
1. Built Charged-Coupled crossovers, using Solen Polyproplyene caps. this keeps the caps operating in class A mode. Greg Timbers swears by them, CC are in both the K2 and Everest, can't ask for a better recommendation than that.
2. Build new boxes with the driver line 2" off center(mirror imaged). produces better imaging
3. Add spikes to the bases, really opens up the highs
I did this by drilling 1/2" deep holes and cutting off 1 1/2" from the pointed ends of 16d framing nails, and pushing them into the holes.

Here is the thread for the CC networks for the L212s. Gisard's post #9 is the schematic.
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5433&highlight=Biased+L212

I should really add a forth element, if you are going to use them as stereo only system I would suggest ebaying for a combo of H/K Citation pre-amp/power amp. That is what I'm using after all these years, wish I had the Citations 28 years ago. I'm sure a Mac combo would be quite nice also.

If you do all 4 of the things I've mentioned and you have a turntable and old lps you will find that some albums are much better than you ever remembered them to be. I found this to be true with Olivia N-J first album. I never realized how well engineered that album really is.

[Titanium Dome]

Thanks grumpy....especially the last one that has Giskard
mentioning the Citation 7.4 (LE14H-1).

I've got a couple of those.....they've been under my nose
the whole time :p

Unless my old eyes are failing me, those look like LE14C drivers.

[sourceoneaudio]

Thanks grumpy....especially the last one that has Giskard
mentioning the Citation 7.4 (LE14H-1).

I've got a couple of those.....they've been under my nose
the whole time :p

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=163706&postcount=12

Yes, I was referring to the subs you had pictured in the above post, which are not LE14H-1's.


J/S-S1A

[57BELAIRE]

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=163706&postcount=12

Yes, I was referring to the subs you had pictured in the above post, which are not LE14H-1's.


J/S-S1A

Those 14c's are just just occupying those boxes...I do have a few LE14s
that I'll try.:o:

[57BELAIRE]

Unless my old eyes are failing me, those look like LE14C drivers.

Your "old" eyes are not failing you :D

[57BELAIRE]

[quote=MJC;164364]My choice for subs are the SUB1500, I used two of them for my 7 channel all L212 system. The 1500s are VLF subs they easily shake the floor using a Crown K2 800wpc amp. They are also very good with music, as they should be, they were used in Revel subs. The LE14-1~3 would be good also. I'm currently using an original B212 in a stereo L212 system. I broke up the 7channel system(5 new PT800 took over the HT)

But if you really want to make those L212s purr, you have to do at least 2 of 3 things. I did all 3. they are
1. Built Charged-Coupled crossovers, using Solen Polyproplyene caps. this keeps the caps operating in class A mode. Greg Timbers swears by them, CC are in both the K2 and Everest, can't ask for a better recommendation than that.
2. Build new boxes with the driver line 2" off center(mirror imaged). produces better imaging
3. Add spikes to the bases, really opens up the highs
I did this by drilling 1/2" deep holes and cutting off 1 1/2" from the pointed ends of 16d framing nails, and pushing them into the holes.

Here is the thread for the CC networks for the L212s. Gisard's post #9 is the schematic.
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5433&highlight=Biased+L212

I should really add a forth element, if you are going to use them as stereo only system I would suggest ebaying for a combo of H/K Citation pre-amp/power amp. That is what I'm using after all these years, wish I had the Citations 28 years ago. I'm sure a Mac combo would be quite nice also.

If you do all 4 of the things I've mentioned and you have a turntable and old lps you will find that some albums are much better than you ever remembered them to be. I found this to be true with Olivia N-J first album. I never realized how well engineered that album really is.[/quot

Yikes! Thanks for your suggestions but all that is beyond my level of expertise.

I think I'll wait until the "right" powered sub comes along...maybe
a 200 watt 12 or i5i n. There seems to be no end in choices out there.

[MJC]

I think I'll wait until the "right" powered sub comes along...maybe
a 200 watt 12 or i5i n. There seems to be no end in choices out there.

Yes, there are a lot of subs to pick from, but not all are good for music. Put using a LE14 with a stereo amp to drive them would be a good choice.

Even tho you say you don't have the expertise to follow my other suggestions, I would thing you could manage to drill four 1/2" deep holes in the bottom of the L212 bases and cut off 16d nails 1 1/2" long with a pair of side cutters(plyers) and insert them into the holes. That, all by it self will give you more open highs.

[sourceoneaudio]

Yes, there are a lot of subs to pick from, but not all are good for music. Put using a LE14 with a stereo amp to drive them would be a good choice.

Even tho you say you don't have the expertise to follow my other suggestions, I would thing you could manage to drill four 1/2" deep holes in the bottom of the L212 bases and cut off 16d nails 1 1/2" long with a pair of side cutters(plyers) and insert them into the holes. That, all by it self will give you more open highs.


Or you could look at this option for speaker spikes. I use these quite often and they work killer. Plus they look real nice.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=240-716

J/S-S1A :D

[JBL 4645]

I do it in two different ways I let the smaller loudspeakers matching across the front while a smaller array surrounds the room, to complement the low end where the smaller types can’t manage the deepest lows from 60Hz down to 20Hz I use a sub bass extension Eltax A-12 R 12” sub bass.

For the exclusive subwoofer LFE.1 channel I use a JBL 4645 to slam in extra support that is not accompanied via regular VHS as this track is only carried on the 5.1 mix only. And when it comes in it makes quite an impression.

So you can design several ways its best to keep the LFE.1 isolated and free from bass manager as it muddles up the low end mix on some AVR AVP units with (low frequency masking):banghead: .

I see you have some matching loudspeakers JBL, use them for the three-screen fronts its paramount for crucial dialogue panning and sound effects.:applaud:

[MJC]

Or you could look at this option for speaker spikes. I use these quite often and they work killer. Plus they look real nice.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=240-716

J/S-S1A :D
Ya, there is that. But when I was playing around changing speaker wire and interconnects, which made a difference, like, right now, I thought about adding spikes, which I didn't have, and would have had to order. The 16d nail thing took about 15 min. Sometimes I just don't like to wait, for anything.:D



I see you have some matching loudspeakers JBL, use them for the three-screen fronts its paramount for crucial dialogue panning and sound effects.

I do better than that, matching speakers all around, in the HT. :applaud:
That's the way GT thinks its best.

[57BELAIRE]

Or you could look at this option for speaker spikes. I use these quite often and they work killer. Plus they look real nice.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=240-716

J/S-S1A :D

S1A....I can see where the spikes would alter the bass characteristics on
subs or any enclosure that utilizes "floor coupling" however, the drivers
in the sats are a foot and a half off the floor.
Is there really a noticeable improvement? :blink:

[MJC]

S1A....I can see where the spikes would alter the bass characteristics on
subs or any enclosure that utilizes "floor coupling" however, the drivers
in the sats are a foot and a half off the floor.
Is there really a noticeable improvement? :blink:
Yes, that's why I mentioned doing it. Adding spikes affects the highs, makes them more open/airy. It doesn't matter that the drivers are 18" above the floor or that the boxes and bases are in two pieces. They are still connected and therefore are floor standing speakers.
Having the mid-bass drivers that high above the floor keeps them from getting boundry reinforcement, which you don't want.

aht3 noticed a difference on his L890s, after he installed the spikes, which were not put in the speaker boxes, and JBL had to send them to him.