4435's Now HOME, Mystery SLOVED!!

[fotodan]

Just got home with the 4435's I purchased off E-Bay. The restoration will now begin. In a previous thread, mention was about 1 woofer might be different. Frist, thing I did when I unloaded them (man they are HEAVY), was pull all woofers from cases. All 4 are 2234H's, all 4 have be refoamed with new surrounds, and 1 has been reconed. Just a few pics to show the start of my project.:applaud:

[fotodan]

And now for the Mystery. Many questions were asked during auction of these speakers a bout switch on back for external and internal crossovers. The seller didnt know, never opened or removed speakers. The reason the switch is not seen in ebay photos, is that the crossovers are missing:banghead:
The subs have been wired directly to the internal crossover speaker connections, and horns are wired directly to the external crossover speaker connections. Lpads and all wiring is intact just NO crossovers....
So now I am in need of Xovers, if anyone can lead me to a pair so I can get these speakers back to the way they were when they were made.
Thanks,
Dan

[Zilch]

4430 and 4435 both used the same board, and 4430's crossover can be converted to 4435.

So, you have other options.... :yes:

[mech986]

Hi Fotodan,

Congrats on the pickup, sorry to hear the crossovers are missing!! Here's the pdf file for the 4435, you should check the HF Compression drivers to see if they are the correct 2426H. Obviously, you speakers have seen some maintainence and modification.

The crossovers may actually not be that hard, relatively, to rebuild, from the schematics in the pdf. Should consult Giskard and Zilch on that.

Bart

Here's the linky:

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Studio%20Monitor%20Series/4435LR.pdf

[jim campbell]

The subs have been wired directly to the internal crossover speaker connections, and horns are wired directly to the external crossover speaker connections. Lpads and all wiring is intact just NO crossovers....
So now I am in need of Xovers, if anyone can lead me to a pair so I can get these speakers back to the way they were when they were made.
Thanks,
Danwhy not go electronic and bi amp?

[fotodan]

why not go electronic and bi amp?

I have read in some of the threads that you dont get the best sound doing that with the 4435's...
Going to have to figure out something, I have never built a crossover before.:banghead:

Did pull both compression drivers and both are 2425H's..... I guess its not all that bad. When I bought these I new I would restore these, but never knew this would be involved....:blink:

[fotodan]

4430 and 4435 both used the same board, and 4430's crossover can be converted to 4435.

So, you have other options.... :yes:

Where would I get the boards, I know most I could get from Parts Express. Do they sell the boards also??

[Andyoz]

What are those large "stains" on the LH side of the left speaker shown in the photo?

[fotodan]

What are those large "stains" on the LH side of the left speaker shown in the photo?

Looks like they had them on their sides, 2 big water stains from plants?? I have ordered veneer to completely redo the outsides of these..:applaud:

I am kinds sick knowing I dont have Xovers for these, but I guess at $535.00 its still not that bad..:blink:

[fotodan]

Will also be rebuilding grilles, no grilles came with these. Will have to see if Zilch has some pretty blue for these..;)

[Zilch]

why not go electronic and bi amp?Because, even biamped, you still need the passive HF compensation circuit in operation.


Where would I get the boards, I know most I could get from Parts Express. Do they sell the boards also??JBL parts had crossovers last time I looked for them, but they were WAY expensive.

You need 4435 crossovers, or 4430s, which can be converted to 4435s, I'm saying. Some forum members have those.

Worst case, they can be built from scratch. If you want them switchable passive/biamp, that's tough to do, but if you just want one or the other, you may be able to build them yourself, i.e., without the switch.

Here's a thread here where I built a switched pair:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5209

Guido's built DIY 4435s, and Rob's built 4430s....

[Andyoz]

Looks like they had them on their sides, 2 big water stains from plants?? I have ordered veneer to completely redo the outsides of these..:applaud:

I thought that's exactly what they looked like but then thought who would be stupid...:(

Also, the rear of the cones seem to show "re-foam" & "re-cone" dates..what are they? This is a bit like an episode of CSI or something..:)

[OldBlindJim]

I have read in some of the threads that you dont get the best sound doing that with the 4435's...
Going to have to figure out something, I have never built a crossover before.:banghead:

Not to worry. Building a crossover can be a fun thing to do. Looks won't matter so you can be a wire nut mad man.

Since there are so many components in this one it may look pretty hard. Just take it on one section at a time. If you need help, there will be a lot of input from here.

A Tri-amp crossovers are quite numerous BUT to find one with enough features for the 4435 would be a challenge. It would need to have at least 24dB slots, phase switching and most impotent a variable HF EQ to compensate for the horn's design. RANE comes to mind.
http://www.rane.com/ac24fp.gif
OK toooooo scary:blink:

My wife would shot me if I ever got back into a rack for the house again.

Build your own, put termals so you can build outside the box and use the wire nuts until you reach the config you like.

Have Fun
I'm rebuilding a set of crossovers as we write.

OB Jim

[SMKSoundPro]

Looks like a 3-way crossover to me.

A Rane AC-23 would be outstanding! or Even a Rane SAC22. 2-way with a 100 down sub out, in a single knob control package!

Three amps, nothing short of Crowns. K1 and K2. PSA2 and DC-300a. (Old American Iron!)

Yea Baby!

WOO HOO!

Get it on, Bang a Gong!

The 4612, or 4612OK is the same concept. 2- 2118 and a 2404 baby butt cheek. 1 - 8 runs down to the bottom, the other 8" has an inductor for the "mids," and get into the tweet early in frequency rise.

Always loved those boxes! Hung them as HiMids in Lisa's Jazzercise studio. The Medical facilty next door ALWAYS bitched about the 4-2235's for bottom!!!

Great sounding aerobics, yea, I married her...quick!

Scott.

[fotodan]

I thought that's exactly what they looked like but then thought who would be stupid...:(

Also, the rear of the cones seem to show "re-foam" & "re-cone" dates..what are they? This is a bit like an episode of CSI or something..:)

Dates for the refoam and recone I guess the same, they say 11/30/89. They also have 9067 wrote on them and taped on the spider, not sure what those numbers mean..

[OldBlindJim]

Crowns DC-300a. (Old American Iron!)

Yea Baby!

WOO HOO!

Get it on, Bang a Gong!

Great amps and CHEAP :D

Two DC-300"a" gotta be an A
One Crown 150

300-400 bucks would do it!

[SMKSoundPro]

9067= JBL reconing station number.

I still remember ASL's...9609. Please don't take away my white pencil!

[fotodan]

9067= JBL reconing station number.

I still remember ASL's...9609. Please don't take away my white pencil!

Well at least they were sent to JBL for reconing.....

[SMKSoundPro]

I have a 150 with the polished chrome style finish. Just sitting here in it's Crown walnut cab.

Could be yours.

Loves 2425's Cut its teeth on LE85's and 2420's!

Sweet!

[subwoof]

I have a single 4435 NOS crossover I bought from JBL some years ago but when I tried to buy a mate, was told that they are NO longer available.

If you decide to build, it looks like they left the original LF inductors?? This will save you some $ and allow correct DCR matching!

I would also suggest biamping them with something NEWER than the older DC300 and 150's. They are nice amps but are under powered for this app and have no DC and thump protection.

If you need power, I have a set: 6290, 6230 and 5235 that would work real well for this and I even have some 5549 EQ's.

This will be a big refurb but when done correctly will shake your fillings out and provide many years of good service!

If one woofer was completely reconed, I would suggest having the other 3 done so they match. Spiders do fatigue and this recone price is actually quite reasonable.

sub

[John]

One other option is to part everything out and with the profit you make you can scoop up another pair that are complete. I have seen 3-4 pairs sell in the last year in the $800-1000 range that were complete althought they all needed refinishing of cabinets.

[JBL 4645]

Not to worry. Building a crossover can be a fun thing to do. Looks won't matter so you can be a wire nut mad man.

Since there are so many components in this one it may look pretty hard. Just take it on one section at a time. If you need help, there will be a lot of input from here.

A Tri-amp crossovers are quite numerous BUT to find one with enough features for the 4435 would be a challenge. It would need to have at least 24dB slots, phase switching and most impotent a variable HF EQ to compensate for the horn's design. RANE comes to mind.
http://www.rane.com/ac24fp.gif
OK toooooo scary:blink:

My wife would shot me if I ever got back into a rack for the house again.

Build your own, put termals so you can build outside the box and use the wire nuts until you reach the config you like.

Have Fun
I'm rebuilding a set of crossovers as we write.

OB Jim

fotodan

I think you should go with that active Ti-amp crossover that looks very nice indeed. It’s a shame the original passive crossover isn’t in the JBL 4430 where they should be, I bet the seller on the Ebay ripped them out and is probably flogging them off separately on the Ebay for $200.00 each! Little Bugger! You can’t trust anyone on the Ebay flogging JBL loudspeakers off these days!:banghead:

[boputnam]

All 4 are 2234H's, all 4 have be refoamed with new surrounds, and 1 has been reconed. Uh, no.

The one cabinet, to our Left, has both woof's reconed (refer to pics, below). The L of Left is marked "reconed"; the R of Left looks non-JBL to me. The dust cover is slightly oversized and the aquaplas rear is different. Maybe edgewound can provide insight or prove my hunch is wrong...


The reason the switch is not seen in ebay photos, is that the crossovers are missing.
The subs have been wired directly to the internal crossover speaker connections, and horns are wired directly to the external crossover speaker connections. Lpads and all wiring is intact just NO crossovers....As I feared. Bummer. Speaks to complete ignorance on the part of the prior users/owners.

Having said that, I fear these have been horribly mistreated - as evidenced by their exterior - and you should go through a very patient, deliberate and comprehensive refurbishing, including complete recones of ALL baskets and new diaphragms in all CD's. Get some pro help on the woodwork (Audiobeer - you out there...?) and you will have resurrected a real prize - but that prize is a ways off right now...:(

Also, once you approach the finish (no pun intended...) line, I'd seek a better quality xover than anything Rane...

[Rolf]

If you, like me, do not have the skill to make crossovers, let the nearest member on the forum, witch have the skill do it for you. You won't regret spending the money.

[Wornears]

Were these the 4435s on ebay and in Charlotte, NC? They were local to me, but I had to resist -- got my L200s to play with -- hope you have good success in their revival.

[fotodan]

Bo, both speakers in that cab have the JBL recone station numbers wrote on back of the cone, and on tape on the spiders, along with the date.. So I dont know.:blink:





Uh, no.

The one cabinet, to our Left, has both woof's reconed (refer to pics, below). The L of Left is marked "reconed"; the R of Left looks non-JBL to me. The dust cover is slightly oversized and the aquaplas rear is different. Maybe edgewound can provide insight or prove my hunch is wrong...

As I feared. Bummer. Speaks to complete ignorance on the part of the prior users/owners.

Having said that, I fear these have been horribly mistreated - as evidenced by their exterior - and you should go through a very patient, deliberate and comprehensive refurbishing, including complete recones of ALL baskets and new diaphragms in all CD's. Get some pro help on the woodwork (Audiobeer - you out there...?) and you will have resurrected a real prize - but that prize is a ways off right now...:(

Also, once you approach the finish (no pun intended...) line, I'd seek a better quality xover than anything Rane...

[boputnam]

Bo, both speakers ... have the JBL recone station numbers wrote on back of the cone, and on tape on the spiders, along with the date.. So I dont know.:blink:OK. That's like 1080i - I don't know what it is, but I want it...

I'm gonna ping edgewound for his experience. He's a Dr. in these sort of things...

[Ian Mackenzie]

If you want to save some money the Xover are not difficult to make.

Rob and I worked on those 2344 bi radials a few years back. I went to JBL Tech and got the schematic and I eventually sold my home made xovers and 2344s to a member over here.

You may wish to Pm Rob about them.

The specs were identifcal to the stock networks.

The trick is to follow the schematic to the letter and use quality parts.

Search will yield the clever inner workings of the 3135 network along with the correct voltage drives for an active system.

DO NOT substitute with other diy versions.

Just make sure you get the DCR of the woofer coils close to stock and wire the woofers correctly.

As Bo suggests new diaphragms are a worthwhile investment.

[4343]

OK. That's like 1080i - I don't know what it is, but I want it...



Why settle for less? And if you don't know why, just let your eyes be the judge(s)...

New at NAB: Super res displays, like 8KX4K pixels. That you WANT!

[Robh3606]

Hello Fotodan

Ian is right do not go the DIY or non JBL active route on the crossovers. Your best bet is to just build up the 4435 crossovers using the schematic. If you biamp use a 5235 with the correct cards 4430/35 cards. That way you will get the right voltage drives and get the most out of them. Nice score.

Rob:)

[Zilch]

I believe Fotodan found the crossovers he needs:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=15786

[jim campbell]

I have read in some of the threads that you dont get the best sound doing that with the 4435's...
...:blink:not that i doubt you but could you elaborate on that.i would have thought that an electronic tailored for that particular system would sound as good or better than the stock setup

[edgewound]

I'm gonna ping edgewound for his experience. He's a Dr. in these sort of things...

Been kinda busy lately catching up with patients.

The 2234 with the darker cone looks aftermarket to me....the rear of the cone is way to rough to be a C8R2235. 2234 is a 2235 without the mass ring attached to the top of the VC former under the dome. Both use the same cone/voice coil/spider assembly.

The other 3 are refoamed 2234's.

BTW....that tape mentioned is on a frame arm(spoke)...which looks to me is mistakenly referred to as the spider. The spider is the yellow/gold fabric suspension that lives under the cone to center the voice coil.

It bothers me when there is so much writing on the back of a recone. We are trained at the factory to put our initials and the recone date....sort of like signing a work of art.

[mech986]

Hi Edge,

Nice work as usual, that driver looks great!

Fotodan,

If you need any 2234's, I have a number of 2235's which were reconed with the 2235 kit but without the mass ring installed, making them essentially a 2234 except for the label. They were ordered specifically that way from the reconer. Let me know if you need them. Their cost + shipping might get close to a proper recone though so your choice.

Great find on the crossovers offered by another LH member so you may not have to build your own. For DIY, I was gonna say that the LF choke is available and very inexpensive (says less than a dollar (!) on JBL's part list). However, the other choke for the MF driver is about $25. So some of the OE parts for the crossover are still available from JBL Pro. In terms of the caps, I recommend using some good polypropylene caps with small bypasses. On a crossover like this one, a charge coupled biased circuit could be a lot of fun and may sound even better, but it would be a lot more work and double the number of caps, making the DIY a bit more involved.

Sounds like it will be an interesting project. I'm gonna follow this one closely, cause I might be doing something very similar soon...if the stars all fall into alignment!

Regards,

Bart

[Zilch]

i would have thought that an electronic tailored for that particular system would sound as good or better than the stock setupWhat Rob, Ian, and Zilch said.

Those of us that have tried it using even the JBL active approach, which retains the passive HF compensation, have found the stock passive to be the preferred operating mode.

I have split the crossover for 4430s to use them passive biwired with separate amps, and made stock and biased versions from scratch, and that all works, but going further, something gets lost....

[hjames]

Your speakers each currently have a pair of 2234s where (I thought I read elsewhere) they ought to have a 2234 and a 2235 (!) What can you do? Do you sell off a pair of them and buy 2235s, or can you have them "converted"?
I gather the difference is the "mass ring" on the driver - that makes a difference in how much "punch" the speaker has, and how low it can play -

Does it take a full rebuild/recone to do the conversion, or can you just have someone like Gordon or Edgewound "add" a mass ring to them.

I guess I don't fully understand the concept or the difference ...





and you will have resurrected a real prize - but that prize is a ways off right now...

[Guido]

The 2234 with the darker cone looks aftermarket to me....the rear of the cone is way to rough to be a C8R2235.

You say it!
The aftermarkets here do not use the massring. They have applied a kind of damping material (similar to aquaplas) to the back of the cone to reach the moving mass. Not a too bad idea for a 2235. To use it as a 2234 isn't possible with those kits for obvious reasons!!

Nice job on the dustcap BTW :)

[Guido]

Your speakers each currently have a pair of 2234s where they ought to have a 2234 and a 2235 (!) ..

:no: :no: :no:
4435 uses 2x 2234 speaker!!
The one with the rough back of the cone is an aftermarket 2235 copy. It has too much cone weight to be a 2234.

[fotodan]

Heres a question about the N3135 XO. What is the L2 1.0mH in the schematics. One of mine is busted off the plastic mounting plate affixed to the board. I have resoldered and added a drop of super glue to reattach it. Can new one be purchased from Parts Express??

[4313B]

You say it!
The aftermarkets here do not use the massring. They have applied a kind of damping material (similar to aquaplas) to the back of the cone to reach the moving mass. Not a too bad idea for a 2235. To use it as a 2234 isn't possible with those kits for obvious reasons!!We've played around with using aquaplas instead of the mass ring on 2234/2235 cone kits and the end result is a stiffer cone assembly with a different high frequency response. 4430/4435 networks would have to be modified accordingly. I'm not convinced it would be worth the effort.

[grumpy]

In this case, it's moot...ya? need four 2234's w/ no mass ring or weighted cone to keep
to the 4435 path, if restoration is the intent (vs. modification). -grumpy

[edgewound]

Not meaning to pile on here, Heather...

Here is the tech sheet for the 4435. It has two 2234's like the other guys pointed out:

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Studio%20Monitor%20Series/4435LR.pdf

We talked before about the mass-ring bugaboos on the 2235H slamming into the pole piece on overexcursion. A possible remedy might be to add the 35 grams of mass to the underside of the dust dome.

I haven't tried it, so I don't know for sure. One possible problem that comes to mind is shifting all of the mass in a too-forward bias causing an imbalance in excursion directions which might result in undesireable non-linear distortion.

Maybe the good Giskard has a theory or experience with this.

[hjames]

Thanks Edgewound - maybe it was one of the other Dual 15 Monitors I got this confused with - but I thought one of them used the 2234 and the 2235 in the same box.

So what about another monitor - say, my B380, or a 4343 - what if there was a 2234 in that - how to get that to the specs of a 2235?
recone? or replace?


Not meaning to pile on here, Heather...

Here is the tech sheet for the 4435. It has two 2234's like the other guys pointed out:

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Studio%20Monitor%20Series/4435LR.pdf

We talked before about the mass-ring bugaboos on the 2235H slamming into the pole piece on overexcursion. A possible remedy might be to add the 35 grams of mass to the underside of the dust dome.

I haven't tried it, so I don't know for sure. One possible problem that comes to mind is shifting all of the mass in a too-forward bias causing an imbalance in excursion directions which might result in undesireable non-linear distortion.

Maybe the good Giskard has a theory or experience with this.

[edgewound]

Thanks Edgewound - maybe it was one of the other Dual 15 Monitors I got this confused with - but I thought one of them used the 2234 and the 2235 in the same box.

So what about another monitor - say, my B380, or a 4343 - what if there was a 2234 in that - how to get that to the specs of a 2235?
recone? or replace?

The only speaker system to use the 2234H is the 4435...they just removed the mass ring to have a new, lighter driver for dual 15 use.
The 4430 uses the 2235H.

Both your B380 and 4343(2231A/H) will use a C8R2235 with the mass-ring.

[John]

Heres a question about the N3135 XO. What is the L2 1.0mH in the schematics. One of mine is busted off the plastic mounting plate affixed to the board. I have resoldered and added a drop of super glue to reattach it. Can new one be purchased from Parts Express??

That is a jbl part, it's part of the HF circuit. I think it is a common problem if the networks are banged around a bit?