suggestions for first speaker build?

[hello9821]

Hello,

I'm contemplating building my first set of custom speakers. I would like to build two-ways using 2404 bi-radial horns because they aren't serving any purpose in my 4612s since i bought my L65s. I was wondering if anyone has any advice on what sort of woofer I should use in this project, and if it's even worth attempting.

Thanks,

Matt

[Robh3606]

Hello Matt

What do you want these speakers to do?? They home HiFi as an example?? The problem you have is the 2404 is really being pushed low in a 4612 to begin with. You won't find many/any woofers capable of giving you real low bass content and going high enough to crossover to the 2404 unless you try an 8 inch driver like a 708G-1 used in the L3 or a 508G in the 4208. Even then you will be limited below 40Hz. Zilch tried some mini's using those woofers so there may be hope. You can use the 6 inchers like the 115H or 706G-1, 506 but the same problem down low compounded buy the smaller woofer. You may want to consider a 3 way with a 2118 mid a 12" or 15" woofer. You may as well use what you can out of the 4612's. If your real ambitious try an MTM using the 2118J's and the 2404 with a woofer of your choice.

Rob:)

[hello9821]

I forgot to mention that I also have 4311b's that i could use parts from because I wasn't impressed with how they sound.

[Zilch]

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=61675#post61675

Sell the 4311Bs and get some good woofers, LE14H-3s, maybe....

[X_X]

You are in good hands. Zilch will guide you through the rest of your project step by step. He is addicted to custom 2ways. At some point, he may even design the network and post the response for you. He will insist on building a mock-up along the way- just for you! What is his fee for all this information? Zilch, nada, zero. ;)

In the interest of time, you can go right to the important stuff by using the search feature and discovering all the wonderful 2ways Zilch has already pioneered (if you cannot find them, Zilch can provide links). You may even feel compelled to make a donation to the site for hosting such priceless things. :)

Seriously, getting your hands on LE14H-3's will put real foundation under your 2way castle. Zilch has done a lot of work using these and it is an excellent starting point. Of course, there are other drivers...you must consider them viable in LF, yet reach the HF driver with grace- no easy task!

If I were building a 2way using vintage drivers- it would have Altec written on it. In my opinion,
Altec had the choke on many great 2way designs while JBL paved the 4way road with gold. I don't fancy vintage JBL drivers in 2way applications, yet the newer JBL's are amazing for 2way. The LE14-H3 is a very good example.

Good luck,
Nate.

[Mr. Widget]

I forgot to mention that I also have 4311b's that i could use parts from because I wasn't impressed with how they sound.I'd agree about the 4311bs. I'd suggest if you are a critical enough listener to reject the 4311bs, you should take Zilch's advice and sell the 4311bs and while you are at it sell the 2404s too.

Zilch brought over his 2404 minis a while back and they didn't sound nearly as good as the stand mounted conventional domed two-way mini monitors I had on hand for comparison. The bass from his system was pretty good but a good conventional dome tweeter sounds far smoother and more extended than the baby butt cheeked ring radiator.

In a PA or high powered rock system, a conventional domed tweeter will get vaporized, but if the goal is a quality playback system for domestic use, it just isn't a first choice. It sounds a bit raspy when crossed over at lower frequencies and just doesn't have the highs that a really good tweeter has.


Widget

[X_X]

...a good conventional dome tweeter sounds far smoother and more extended than the baby butt cheeked ring radiator.

It ('cheek) sounds a bit raspy when crossed over at lower frequencies and just doesn't have the highs that a really good tweeter has.


Widget


That has been my experience, too.

I might add that the line of Accuton ceramic tweeters and certain ribbon tweeters have the ability to be crossed over at low points while remaining stable. It would be a chore to design a passive network for them due to their lower sensitivities, but they sound wonderful and (I think) well worth the effort in a two way application. I have had great luck with Altec 414-16B's and Accuton dome tweeters in a two way with active electronics. The Accutons did what the 811/806 horn could never do. In the future, I may try the 414's with a nice ribbon. :bouncy:

cheers,
Nate.

[sourceoneaudio]

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=61675#post61675

Sell the 4311Bs and get some good woofers, LE14H-3s, maybe....

Zilch,
In my last contact with JBL they said now this woofer is no longer made? So I then stated it is currently being used in a current model the 1400 Array, the person seemed totally confused and said he would get back to me. That was 4 days ago. Be nice to talk to someone in parts that had a clue. Zilch, do you have a short cut?

Jeff
J/S-S1A :p

[X_X]

Zilch,
In my last contact with JBL they said now this woofer is no longer made? So I then stated it is currently being used in a current model the 1400 Array, the person seemed totally confused and said he would get back to me. That was 4 days ago. Be nice to talk to someone in parts that had a clue. Zilch, do you have a short cut?

Jeff
J/S-S1A :p

Jeff,

You talked to the wrong person. Try again. They are produced in batches. You will have to order them from the Harmon site and wait until the next batch is complete. I believe the manufacturing is outsourced. They continually fall into the "currently unavailable category". I recently ordered a pair, so you can still get 'em! :D

Nate.

[grumpy]

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/partlist.asp?BrandId=JBL&MarketId=HOM&Parts=1400%20ARRAY%20BG

add to wishlist there... also has P/N if you need to refer that.

[sourceoneaudio]

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/partlist.asp?BrandId=JBL&MarketId=HOM&Parts=1400%20ARRAY%20BG

add to wishlist there... also has P/N if you need to refer that.

Thank you gents. I have added them to my wish list three months ago. This information came from to the parts department direct e-mail. It is driving me nuts. I was told March for a release date. So I contacted them at the end of the month, and the above is the answer I received.

J/S-S1A :banghead:

[X_X]

Thank you gents. I have added them to my wish list three months ago...


You will need to pay for them in advance, then the waiting game begins. I suspect they wait until they have enough standing orders to batch out. Interest can be generated, but until you put your order in a pay- you are just a tire kicker to them. They are worth the effort.


Nate.

[Zilch]

Zilch, do you have a short cut?PM on the way....

[hello9821]

i am working on a 16 year old student's budget. my main goal is to make something better out of the components from the 2 pairs of speakers, spending as little money as possible. thanks for all the help!

[Mr. Widget]

i am working on a 16 year old student's budget. my main goal is to make something better out of the components from the 2 pairs of speakers, spending as little money as possible. thanks for all the help!
I am a huge fan of building your own speakers... that said, these days on the used market there are quite a few real bargains as more and more people unload their larger older systems in favor of smaller less invasive ones.

If you sell your 4311Bs and your 2404 tweeters you should get $400-$600 to play with. With that investment you will likely do better in the used market, but with care you should be able to put together a pretty good system. I'd recommend checking out a number of systems to see what you like. If you tell us which systems really appeal to you and why, we can likely direct you toward the real bargains.

With the components you currently have on hand, I don't see you really improving on the 4311Bs. If you replace the tweeters, networks, and cabinets you will have something better than the stock 4311Bs... but you'd be better off just buying some used L96s for example... they are better than the 4311Bs in every way except perhaps max SPL and they are typically available for less money than the 4311Bs.


Widget

[Robh3606]

Good suggestion Widget

Rob:)

[grumpy]

or see if andresohc still has his 4313's for sale ... :) -grumpy
(fairly local for you).