Ever Hear A Decent DJ Sound System?

[majick47]

Gone to wedding receptions, retirement parties etc and not much of a chance of seeing/hearing a live band these days so it's the DJ. Usually it's a pair of cheap 15" woofer/horn speakers mounted on poles cranked past the distortion point. Made the mistake one time of sitting at a table too close and had to retreat, it was painful. After being on LH for a while I know there has to be better sounding speakers/amps/mixers/cd players and possibly even turntables that the DJs could use that would sound something closer to what I have at home. Maybe some of our LH sound reinforcement members could make some suggestions to all those DJs out there who don't have a clue as to what a decent sound system should be.

[Guy in WNY]

The last wedding I was at - it was in December - the DJ used JBL's similar to what you mention with a large Crown amp, no subs, minimal EQ, DJ CD player, minimal lighting (a disco ball). The sound was OK because it wasn't blasting, but was far from being very good and not close to excellent. Having spoken to the DJ, he was not allowed in the building beforehand to see the layout and "check" the sound quality of the room, so based on the description given him, he brought what he thought was a good fit.
Never been to a retirement party, we die at work here in WNY!

[scott fitlin]

Oh hell yeah there really is!

But, the GOOD DJ gear, just like any other good gear is EXPENSIVE! Mobile set ups are usually small two speaker self powered Mackie, Yorkville, JBL or EAW affairs sometimes even JBL EONS!
And they, ( mobile DJ,s ) concentrate on portability, and weight, AND small AC power draw. How many reception halls have an AC distro to provide a system with 100 or 200 amps of current?

Now, if you came to my place you could see and hear the DJ/Nightclub gear, alot from the past, but, you cant move my stuff around, youll need a semi, and a crew. Im running 12 amplifiers, have great EQ,s great xovers, turntables, CD players, A laptop and Serrato for DJing download files like records! A dedicated 200 amp AC service just for the sound. ALL JBL and Altec speakers.

I use an old Urei 1620 mixer/preamp, its great, also have my old Bozaks, yeah, Bozak made a great DJ mixer, all discrete very good sound.

Many clubs spend HUGE money on sound systems, portable mobile DJ,s dont usually have fantastic stuff. So, if you want to hear what an incredible DJ system sounds like you have to go to a club known for their sound, or come to my place!

:)

[scott fitlin]

But, your not going to get small mobile wedding DJ,s to spend $30 or 40 grand for sound.

And mobile guys want small and lightweight. I have freinds that do this work, they switched from older Crest and QSC amps, to lightweight switching amps from QSC, they will tell you, the older heavy amps sounded better, but they dont miss the weight!

There are a couple of specialty mobile DJ,s that specialize in having super sound, but they are EXPENSIVE, too!

Price commensurate with size of system.

[jim campbell]

is that at the business or at home.ive heard some really good pro setups and toyed with the idea of going that way myself.most however seem to favor the cerwin vega route and its like fingernails on chalkboards to me.the local bar uses that kind of stuff saturdays for karaoke and i have to leave or id be doing a charles whitman

[scott fitlin]

My system resides at the buisiness, you couldnt run it in a house type living room. Way too big.

Sixteen JBL 2402

Six JBL 2404

Six JBL 2395/2441

Six double 15in Altec VOTT, being TAD loaded this year.

Four 18in W Bin subs.

Four double 18in scoops JBL 2240 loaded.

Four double 18in ported Widgets, JBL 2242 loaded.

You got a room big enough for MEEEEEEE? :D

[mikebake]

There are some superlative installed systems in clubs, i.e. ones that JBL has consulted on. They have been dialed in big time.
Most portable DJ's suck, but there are some very good ones. A sub sat system using high end gear works well, but is still heavy. Depends on the room size. Good LF is essential.

[johnaec]

Now, if you came to my place you could see and hear the DJ/Nightclub gear, alot from the past:useless:

John

[jim campbell]

is it practical to go after hours and play without all the distractions.i can feel the mad scientist in me cackling diabolically while pulling down the lever

[scott fitlin]

Good LF is essential.For dance music, its imperative to have SUPER bottom end, but bottom can get expensive, weight becomes an issue, and AC power available is also an issue.

Clubs built for sound, well, they have what they need.

For mobile guys, good subs are usually alot heavier, and bigger than they want to move around, then, and even still today, a great sub bass amp with hefty power output usually requires its own 20 or 30 amps outlet.

How many catering halls have serious AC for entertainers to use?

[scott fitlin]

:useless:

JohnYou know me, John? I am a worthless hoe!

I know, I know, I should have had pics up already, if I only sit down to figure out how!

:banghead:

:D

[edgewound]

You hit a nerve! Nice post Majick.

I service DJ's speaker all the time and it's the same problem. Entry level stuff driven beyond it's means. The Big Box music stores pump this stuff out to these guys....weekend warriors... that have no experience with a sound system...and then I get to hear the woes: ..."but the salesman said these handle a thousand watts, and the amp has the same power! The system is all matched up! WTF?!....I didn't do it!!!

After I tell them that their entry level JBL TR, SF, JRX series owner's manual has a section about distortion/amp clipping....they usually don't read it until after they've visited me and I tell them the damage is not a defect, but user error and/or abuse...and it's not a warranty issue. It's akin to redlining your car in first gear and blowing the engine....it's not the engines fault.

The only problem here is that there is too much cheap stuff on the market, and when given the choice, the newfound DJ talent will opt to spend as little as possible on his system. Unfortunately this is now the norm.....absolute crap sound by unknowledgable people being paid as "professionals".

I'm sure this is only limited to the sound industry.:p ;) :D :applaud: :blink:

[majick47]

Scotty next time I'm in NYC I'll be by to hear your system and I'm sure it will be an experience. Years gone by when I was hitting the clubs I have fond memories of killer sound systems and as Skotty said the bass was what made the difference. Had to be JBL 18" woofers to sound/feel that good.

[scott fitlin]

I like when the salesman tells the novice user/DJ that having more power than the speakers rating is the proper way, and you only blow speakers when you dont have enough power.

So, they buy the 1800wpc monster amp, and they go out and do their job, and they PUSH the amp for all its got, and wonder why they blew the speakers. 700 watt rated speakers will only take 1800 watts continuosly for but so long.

So, when they go back to Sam Ash, Guitar Center, or wherever, now you NEED a limiter, so they sell you even more gear.

But, seriously, shopping for a DJ for your affair is like shopping for anything, you have to do your research and shop around. There really are professional mobile DJ,s and mobile DJ companies that can provide good sound, and good lighting, even video and plasma screens. But, like anything, the better they are, the more they cost!

[scott fitlin]

Scotty next time I'm in NYC I'll be by to hear your system and I'm sure it will be an experience. Years gone by when I was hitting the clubs I have fond memories of killer sound systems and as Skotty said the bass was what made the difference. Had to be JBL 18" woofers to sound/feel that good.Ill be here.

:)

[jblnut]

Unfortunately around here a lot of the DJ's use Blows speakers - some sort of 901 pro variant. What you get is a headache caused by 120db worth of vocals with no real bass or high end either. The DJ's love 'em because they can take the punishment and won't blow like a cheap 15" 2-way.

If you're lucky, you get the occasional guy using EONs who knows the crowd's limit (and the speakers). I've heard some really nice sound from EONs as well as the older and larger Cabaret series.


jblnut



Gone to wedding receptions, retirement parties etc and not much of a chance of seeing/hearing a live band these days so it's the DJ. Usually it's a pair of cheap 15" woofer/horn speakers mounted on poles cranked past the distortion point. Made the mistake one time of sitting at a table too close and had to retreat, it was painful. After being on LH for a while I know there has to be better sounding speakers/amps/mixers/cd players and possibly even turntables that the DJs could use that would sound something closer to what I have at home. Maybe some of our LH sound reinforcement members could make some suggestions to all those DJs out there who don't have a clue as to what a decent sound system should be.

[scott fitlin]

You know what, though?

You go into a hall, you have 250 people attending the party, the room is how big? Two speakers are just not enough to do the job properly. And, not without pushing the two speakers beyond their limits.

My friend finally got enough speakers, he now uses SIX RCF full range speakers, he added on four 15in subs that he clusters off to the side of the center of the dance floor area, and he has added on tweeters for that dance club top end magic. I even got him to get an RTA, to use his EQ,s properly, once he got the knack of it, its amazing what his system can sound like.

Now he can deliver an intense dancefloor sound, yet maintain clean levels of output ( no screeching mids/highs ), and nice punchy bottom without killing the people. He also has lighting, video, screens, and cameras to film the party and crowd. Even has a computer, with iTunes, and download access, whatever ANYONE wants to hear, HE HAS! Mostly playing CD, though.

However, this is considerably more work to move, to setup, etc. If your willing to spend the money, your definitely going to have a better party with this setup, but, many people choose the inexpensive two speaker guy.

[mikebake]

For mobile guys, good subs are usually alot heavier, and bigger than they want to move around, then, and even still today, a great sub bass amp with hefty power output usually requires its own 20 or 30 amps outlet.

How many catering halls have serious AC for entertainers to use?
Yes, good subs are still a beast, and no, few halls have serious AC. I installed a separate 30 amp circuit on the exterior of my house just for additional sound duty during the backyard parties......
At the small outdoor venue I program, I had four 30 amp, two 220, and eight 20 amp circuits installed just for sound and some lights, and a few incidentals. It cost probably 3000.00 total over two years, running lines from the back of the building, using weatherproof/locked boxes, etc. but was SO worth it. The power never sags.

[scott fitlin]

Yeah, and Ill bet one of your backyard bar -b- cues doesnt just shake the house, you rock the block!

I like your idea of a party! :thmbsup:

[mikebake]

Horn loaded units don't really cause the problems that other boxes do. You can use the directivity to spare the neighbors. The direct radiators, when loud enough for the party, are too indiscriminate and the volume is annoying.

I just bought one of Hondas new eu6500is to be self sufficient in any sub-optimal power location.
120/240V
6500W max.(54.1/27.1A)
5500W rated (45.8/22.9A)

High Quality, Stable and High Power Output
Smooth, Clean Power from Honda
Honda Inverter Technology
http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/apicgen/imageinvert.gif
"Honda boasts a sine wave equal to or better than the current from your household power.
Computers and power-sensitive testing equipment require what is referred to as "clean power." Clean power is electrical current that is consistent and has a stable "sine wave" or signal. If the lights or other basic appliances in your home were being powered by a generator and there was a fluctuation in the AC power, you’d probably see the lights dim and then return to full brightness—no problem! However, if your computer was being powered by a generator and the voltage fluctuated, chances are the computer would either shut down or at least interrupt the program you were working in.

In order to overcome this problem, Honda engineers developed a revolutionary form of inverter technology. This process takes the raw power produced by the generator, passes it through a special microprocessor that provides ultra-clean power that boasts a sine wave equal to or better than the current from your household AC wall outlet. This means that for the first time, you can operate a computer or other sensitive equipement, like stereos or medical equipment."
For DJ use in some locales, it wouldn't hurt to have one of these out the back door at your gig. Screw the "house" power. Less than 60 db noise levels at full power.

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/images/model/eu6500is_240x208.jpg

[Titanium Dome]

If you're lucky, you get the occasional guy using EONs who knows the crowd's limit (and the speakers). I've heard some really nice sound from EONs as well as the older and larger Cabaret series.


jblnut

I've got a pair of EONs, a Niles IPC sequential power unit, a little Samson mixer, and a pair of stand alone subs (LE120H-1 based) run off a portable Soundcraftsmen S860. They can handily cope with a room that'll hold about 100 people with excellent sound, but beyond that it's just not a big enough rig.

Plus, I don't want to work too hard or too often, so I'd rather have the young guys bring in their junk and blast it to pieces. (Usually it ends the party sooner , too. :thmbsup:)

[JBL Dog]

I've been in the DJ entertainment business for 28 years and I do have to admit most of the DJ's use crap equipment. As previously mentioned, most don't know the definition of "headroom".

The gear I use is of better than average quality.

I use a bunch of QSC's in various sizes. They are very reliable and don't break the bank like some of the Crown and Crest amps will. I'm currently using:

(2) QSC MX3000A
(3) QSC 3402's - not as ballsy as the MX3000A, but they weigh 21 lbs.!
(1) QSC MX2000A
(3) QSC MX1500A
(1) Crown MA1200 - in service since 1988
(1) Crown CE1000
(2) EV KV 2.0
(1) JBL MPA750
(2) JBL 6290 - hands down the best deal on eBay if you don't have to pay shipping!

Speakers, of course I use JBL! However, I love the sound of EV for my karaoke shows.

In pairs:

JBL SR series (4704, 4718, 4722, 4725, 4732)
JBL EON15's (passive)
JBL 4602A stage monitors
P-Audio 18 subs - the P-audio sub is a clone of the JBL 2241H - very satisfied with them.
EV S-152 - I have four pairs, excellent for karaoke.
EV Sx300(a) - I have one powered set, one passive set
EV Sx100+
EV Sx100

Most of the lights, mixers and cd players I use are American Audio products. Decent quality, easy on the pocket book.

Using the mentioned gear, I rarely get complaints about sound quality. And, I know what it means when the little red light starts flashing on the amp!

:D

[scott fitlin]

The QSC MX-3000A, thats the amp ALL the mobile guys loved for their bass, but, they love the 3402 for the weight.

[JBL Dog]

How many catering halls have serious AC for entertainers to use?

Very few in the St. Louis area. I've tripped many a breaker not even running the rig hard. I'll trim back usage of lights and get through the show.

We actually have a few halls around here that won't let you bring in 18" subs!! Fine. I'll rip their heads off with mids and highs from an array of EV 12" 2-ways.

:banghead:

[scott fitlin]

We actually have a few halls around here that won't let you bring in 18" subs!! Fine. I'll rip their heads off with mids and highs from an array of EV 12" 2-ways.

:banghead::rotfl:

Badd Dog!

Why wont they allow 18in subs? Cant you just tell em they are 15in subs?

:)

[JBL Dog]

:rotfl:

Badd Dog!

Why wont they allow 18in subs? Cant you just tell em they are 15in subs?

:)

It's subs in general. They want your gear off the floor and on stands. The movable walls are so thin in some of these venues that the bass from 18" subs can be overwhelming in the next room. In other words, the father-of-the-bride is giving a toast in one room and they're doing the "Wild Thing" next door. "Can you go next store and tell your buddy to turn down the bass??"

No, I can't!

:applaud:

[SMKSoundPro]

I've been a Mobile Dj since 1979. I built my first JBL speaker rig out of 4560 horn loaded w/2225, and 2440 on a 90degree northwest sound horn, biamped with 5232 electronic crossovers at 800hz. I used Yamaha P2200 and p2100 amps. Pretty good for casette tape recordings of the dance tunes of the day.

In 1981, I started working with Alaska Sound Labs. We built me four EN8 enclosures with a 2240-18", an E110-10" in a sonotube enclosure, and at first had a 2420 on a h91 horn with a 2308 lense, and then to a 2403 ellipsodial tweeter. All four of these walnut monitor cabs has a anvil style roadcase so that we could stack the speaks on the top of the case and get them twice as high for all of high school dances.

Now, it's the same 4 walnut EN8 cabs with a 2240, E110 and a 2404 baby butt cheek. I am using Crown Macro techs;2400 for the bottom, 1200 for the mids and xover at 3500 to the tweets.

I am very well known in Alaska and am able to add more to the rig if nessessary. I do most gigs at the SHeraton, or the other ballrooms in town.

So in answer to your comment...


I am VERY proud of my JBL rig, and how it sounds, and know I get more gigs because Lisa and I have an absolutely bullet-proof sound rig that role in and out beautifully. I always carry my own temporary power panels, due to the ballrooms always having 50 amp 4 pole rangeplugs available.

Wow, I am pissed that someone would judge all mobile dj's by the couple they saw at some crappy low-budget brideknockedup wedding reception!!!

[moldyoldy]

I'm still hungup on the "ported Widgets"...:hmm:

and howdaybe at Karaoke...?

[SMKSoundPro]

I'm still hungup on the "ported Widgets"...:hmm:

and howdaybe at Karaoke...?


I don't get it?


What's a "ported widget"

Scotty.

[Allanvh5150]

Most DJ systems I have seen here blow dog. I used to run an all JBL system in the late 1980's that consisted of 8 4518 type cabs, 8 4508's, 2 2350/2445, 2 2404, 2 2405. All driven with about 10Kw! The cleanest, loudest rig I have ever used in a small (600 people) room. Take me back!:)

[majick47]

Never intended to lump any our LH members in with the weekend DJs with crap equipment/sound. SMKSoundPro would be a steller example of what a pro mobil DJ should strive for in bringing first rate sound/music to the party. Hope some of the budding DJs out there read this thread for some insperation.

[scott fitlin]

I don't get it?


What's a "ported widget"

Scotty.Some cabinets Mr. Widget built for me. Ported subs, JBL 2242 loaded, each woofer in its own 8cu ft volume, total of eight woofers.

They replaced these old, and gigantic folded horns, J Horns, each cabinet has a single 18, stands 7ft tall, 7ft wide, but only 22in deep. They are folded horns standing up, firing down to the floor on a scoop type extension, hence the name J Horn, they do produce a TON of output, but just werent the cleanest sounding. I have four of these massive freaks, there are other folded horn designs I like much better.

With the right horns, there is a KICK to the bottom that most direct radiating designs just dont have, but I have 12 horn loaded 18,s, and 12 horn loaded 15,s in operation, horns I do like, so I wanted to add some deep, clean bass. It works!

:)

[scott fitlin]

It's subs in general. They want your gear off the floor and on stands. The movable walls are so thin in some of these venues that the bass from 18" subs can be overwhelming in the next room. In other words, the father-of-the-bride is giving a toast in one room and they're doing the "Wild Thing" next door. "Can you go next store and tell your buddy to turn down the bass??"

No, I can't!

:applaud::applaud: :D :applaud:

[JBL Dog]

Most DJ systems I have seen here blow dog. I used to run an all JBL system in the late 1980's that consisted of 8 4518 type cabs, 8 4508's, 2 2350/2445, 2 2404, 2 2405. All driven with about 10Kw! The cleanest, loudest rig I have ever used in a small (600 people) room. Take me back!:)

You could do a concert for over 1000 people with a rig that size. I rarely do parties of over 250 anymore. That much gear is just not necessary. I get about one call a year to spin tunes for 1000+. I refer them to a friend who's equipt to do events that size.

[louped garouv]

on some wonderful advice garnered over the last few years I have managed to cobble togetther a respectable sounding DJ rig....


but it definately has been more expensive than buying some EONs/Mackies/etc....

more on the lines of buying a turbosound rig....


BTW I am of the opinion that the CV SL36Bs can sound good with proper implementation.....

[boputnam]

...I am pissed that someone would judge all mobile dj's by the couple they saw at some crappy low-budget brideknockedup wedding reception!!!Dood...

First of all, it is cruel of you to post a picture of your dad doing your gigs! :rotfl: (Sorry, man - you have no idea how depraved my humor is... :p ). Anyway, to your point...

Few - and I mean DAMNED few - take the pride in gear that you seem to. Most are "how many f'n watts is this, dammit??" The results, unfortunately, please many, many gigsters.

I would like to hear your rig. In my worldwide travels I end the evening searching for live sound so I can maybe learn something. More often than not I get stuck in a DJ thingy ("stuck" is my word - I am a live band FOH guy...). More often "loud" is the goal, and there is no tonality. The gig hurts my ears with no redeeming value - that is, I am not trying to get laid.

I like what you guys do, but few do it "right". Your plight is not so different from that of us FOH guys who get lumped-in with the crummy FOH curmudgeons, too. Ignore the flak - stay the course and do it right.

As I always say - if your ears don't ring in the morning, neither do theirs...

[mikebake]

It's subs in general. They want your gear off the floor and on stands. The movable walls are so thin in some of these venues that the bass from 18" subs can be overwhelming in the next room. In other words, the father-of-the-bride is giving a toast in one room and they're doing the "Wild Thing" next door. "Can you go next store and tell your buddy to turn down the bass??"

No, I can't!

:applaud:
I consulted with the local Civic center concerning parties in adjacent sections of the facility, usually separated by movable walls. The bleed over was always the problem.
There was a few things they could do to help, but my main suggestion was to not book events next to each other where it would be an issue, and to have a staff member available all night to tell the DJ to turn it down. The best was when they had a wedding in one section, and an awards banquet in the next. The banquet was mostly people aged 70+; the Dj was playing some nasty "doin' the butt" kinda music.

[SMKSoundPro]

I usually only play for parties of 500+ at the hotel ballrooms. I am not doing any 100- parties, anymore. $1000/4 hrs. with the whole rig to start.

" I've turned into a "ballroom DJ."

Better food, nicer loading dock, security officers for problem partiers, allways dress in a double-breasted suit and tie...Lisa loves it!

oh yeah...and air conditioning, too! Most places in Alaska don't have a/c, but let me tell you, it sure is nice on those June days when we have 20+ hours of daylight and heat!!! It can get up to +70 outside!!! and we're dying inside!

We were in Seattle last month to see and hear Bobby Caldwell and his band at "Jazz Alley" Great venue!!! Great McCauley rig!!! FOH guy super nice to talk to and share ideas. Man, have they got it right!!! WHat a place! I'm trying to do some of the same things here at our nightclub. The food was also outstanding!!!

(wow, that is lot of exclamation points.)

bottom line...I am proud to be "taking it to the streets" like the doobies said. Lisa reminded me of how money that rig has brought in, and she is right, its impressive!

Scotty.

[scott fitlin]

Dood...

First of all, it is cruel of you to post a picture of your dad doing your gigs! :rotfl: (Sorry, man - you have no idea how depraved my humor is... :p ). Anyway, to your point...

Few - and I mean DAMNED few - take the pride in gear that you seem to. Most are "how many f'n watts is this, dammit??" The results, unfortunately, please many, many gigsters.

I would like to hear your rig. In my worldwide travels I end the evening searching for live sound so I can maybe learn something. More often than not I get stuck in a DJ thingy ("stuck" is my word - I am a live band FOH guy...). More often "loud" is the goal, and there is no tonality. The gig hurts my ears with no redeeming value - that is, I am not trying to get laid.

I like what you guys do, but few do it "right". Your plight is not so different from that of us FOH guys who get lumped-in with the crummy FOH curmudgeons, too. Ignore the flak - stay the course and do it right.

As I always say - if your ears don't ring in the morning, neither do theirs...Back in the day, clubs and DJ,s payed alot of attention and money for their sound, and using it properly.

Most of the time, these days, the DJ,s and clubs, and customers alike, do not know what the real deal sound is or was. So, if its louder, it must be more better. Alot of folks think this way. Even in my place, I get young guys say, Yo turn it up, turn it up! One day a guy had his radio boombox, and proceeded to SHOW ME, what something should sound like. He turned the radio up until it was all garbled, fuzzed out distortion. Yeah man, thas what you shit should be doin! This is what it is sometimes, they dont know!

Then, on the other end of things, MONEY, it is dayum awful expensive for proper gear. I can design and build you a great mobile system for $35,000. Most guys want to spend under $2500, hey, you cant expect Ferrari performance at Hyundai prices. Good speakers cost money, good electronics cost money!

The mixer/front end, many guys love the vintage urei 1620,s, but, a mint 1620, well, $1500 to $2500 right there. The Rane 2016A is popular, but still $1200 for the basic mixer, extra with the expansion module. The mixer is very important, sorry, but a Numark just doesnt cut it!

But, once people hear great sound, they know! Then, its hard to listen to blaring junk.

[Andyoz]

NO!

There's a local DJ that I have seen twice now and the bloody horns are actually blow on his 15" two-ways. So I have now spent two evenings listening to ABBA etc, with no cymbals, hi-hat, lead guitar, etc.

I didn't have the heart to tell him...he probably wouldn't give a toss anyway.

[boputnam]

$1000/4 hrs. with the whole rig to start.Hi, Scotty...

Well that there pisses me off. I can't imagine you've got the investment us FOH guys have in our "rigs", but I can tell you that your ROI is far better than mine!! :yes: Good for you. Most the guys I know hit the road for $500 or so (if they can get it...) and the typical gig time door-to-door is 12-hrs. Maybe I should sell my consoles and get some CD's!!

Besides the Crowns, what else you got in your drive rack(s)...?

[louped garouv]

But, once people hear great sound, they know! Then, its hard to listen to blaring junk.

very very true.....

save some money,
build a better DJ rig
and then stay home
;)


those Urei 1620s, in mint shape or otherwise, don't exactly fall off of trees nowadays.....



Maybe I should sell my consoles and get some CD's!!


No No No, Laptop audio is the way of the future.... Most of the younger DJs are using Rane Scratch live, Ableton, DJ Decks, or some other "Virtual" system to playback digital files....

some of the files are better than others, as far as sound quality is concerned....

way lighter than carrying around several hundred CDs or records too....

I haven't gone there yet..... leaning towards DJDecks, the software designers seem much more responsive to end-user wants/needs better than anyone else, and the software itself is cheaper by a large margin...

[johnaec]

...but I can tell you that your ROI is far better than mine!!I think a lot of it has to do with competition - in CA, everyone and his brother seems to have a sound system. I doubt the same holds true in Alaska!

John

[JBL Dog]

Hi, Scotty...

Well that there pisses me off. I can't imagine you've got the investment us FOH guys have in our "rigs", but I can tell you that your ROI is far better than mine!! :yes: Good for you. Most the guys I know hit the road for $500 or so (if they can get it...) and the typical gig time door-to-door is 12-hrs. Maybe I should sell my consoles and get some CD's!!

Besides the Crowns, what else you got in your drive rack(s)...?

It's a struggle to average $500 a show in the St. Louis market. Some of the banquet centers in this area are now permanently installing in-house rigs and hiring DJ's on their own (paying the jocks $175 - $300 per-show). And those that haven't installed systems are have a referral list and are getting kick-backs from those DJ's.

[louped garouv]

there are a shit ton of DJs in Denver who will spin records for free....


maybe not bring a rig too, but still....

what kill sme, is that it's not just the Newbs doing it.....

[edgewound]

I'm gonna stick my neck out and say the Emperor is naked.

Guess who you can point a finger at for this lack of sound quality?

The over-exploitation of high-end brand marques that put out boxes stuffed with cheap parts and sold through mass merchandisers.

Thank you to the corporation filled with genius MBA's that care more about ringing out a few pennies more per entry-level unit and hoping they graduate up the line to the better and best stuff.

Problem with that kind of thinking is that the higher end products get ignored longer and end up being discontinued for lack of demand.....which results in more cheap stuff produced that is "affordable".

What the end user is never....ok, rarely... educated on though, is the cost of ownership is usually higher on the cheap stuff due to break downs and burnouts by having to buy replacement parts.....and building a bad reputation for cut-rate sound quality.

[boputnam]

...higher end products get ignored longer and end up being discontinued for lack of demand.....which results in more cheap stuff produced that is "affordable".

What the end user is never....ok, rarely... educated on though, is the cost of ownership is usually higher on the cheap stuff due to break downs and burnouts by having to buy replacement parts.....and building a bad reputation for cut-rate sound quality.Dood, you are full of truisms! Particularly the last phrase - so many get subjected to low-end audio, overdriven, and think that's all there is... :help:

[scott fitlin]

What the end user is never....ok, rarely... educated on though, is the cost of ownership is usually higher on the cheap stuff due to break downs and burnouts by having to buy replacement parts.....and building a bad reputation for cut-rate sound quality.Yes and no. The cost of entry on TOTL gear is steep.

Lets say you want to use high power lightweight amps, and you like the sound of Crowns. And you want their premium product. How much are Itechs? Cost of entry can be prohibitive.

So, you begin looking for lower cost alternatives, many guys wind up stepping down into the price level they can realistically swing.

[louped garouv]

whether it be by buying "lower end" new or used gear....

you can get into some good sounding gear for relatively cheap by going used, but your repair/refurb bills go up.....

[edgewound]

Yes and no. The cost of entry on TOTL gear is steep.



Scott...i hear ya. But a point I was getting at is the economic focus that mfr's are paying on the cheap stuff.

I bet if they focused more, and gave more resources to the mid and hi-end, economies of scale could provide lower prices for better equipment, then the mfr's would have a better bottom line thru bigger margins....and cutting down somewhat on the volume of junk and cheapening and convoluting the brand. Any company names come to mind?

I think the one stop shop mfr's have done more harm to themselves than good, and have lost business in the process by trying to be all things to all customers.

[scott fitlin]

Well in my opinion, the brands that really watered themselves down, they lost buisiness to other brands that do make good stuff.

I can think of more than one brand that has done this, and I see where people that once bought a particular brand exclusively, now buy others!

Crown is one brand that comes to mind, they just had to be able to sell amps at the lower end that QSC held the market on. But, at least the low to mid priced QSC amps were reliable, and sounded OK, decent bang for the buck. The low priced Crown stuff, :no: IMHO!

[SMKSoundPro]

I say, bring on the youngs dj's!

They have a fresh perspective of the mobile market, are not tainted by cheap bar owners or carrot on string danglers. They still have that love for what they are doing to a dancefloor, and you can see it in their eyes.

Then they come to guys like us who have been there. Gotten burned a couple of times in the wallet. Drank too much at the reception. Made a fool out of ourselves with a hot mic in our hands. Had to lower the price again to get gigs after we sobered up. Basically started over from scratch, and had the hindsight to know better this time. Started becoming successful this time around. and voila!...

Started repairing the young guy's rigs and helping them to know the bottomless pit of what can happen if not careful.

I have a new dj working at the club that just brings in her laptop and plugs it in to the mixer in the small dancefloor. She is a real pretty asian gal that always dresses very nicely, and just lets her laptop play. I came down from my upstairs shop/office and saw her just sitting there watching her laptop. No interaction with the small crowd. No encouragement on the mic. no mixing, tweaking or tuning each song as it auto-mixed from song to song. She just sat there on a barstool in her skirt and heels, as if waitng for something to happen.

This was not the way it was just a few years ago. Man, I'm still dancing on the speakers doing YMCA, and maybe at my age have turned into a sideshow. But we keep doing stuff to let the dancefloor know its OK to be a little crazy and have some uninhibited fun for a few minutes at a wedding reception or company holiday party.

A couple of times, I had Lisa cover the last hour of one reception, while I left and started the next. She was uncomfortable, and mentioned that it would be fine if the wedding guests were all in tights and leotards and she was their Jazzercise instructor. Then she could function!

So Scotty,

WHAT"S YOUR POINT?

Let's take this opportunity to help these newbies make it. Teach them what a good sound rig is all about. Educate those that will listen that there is a ton of music out there that will connect to a larger listening base, and ultimately, because of our support, they will succeed. Although someone like "Storm" can write as if he sounds like a child, he has tapped into an incredible collective of experience and ideas! Bring them on!

Wow. that sounds like a sermon. I didn't mean to preach.

Thank you for letting me say this.

I will go to a meeting, and call my sponsor, where I am sure I will have to do another fearless, moral inventory...again.

scott. (15 years)

[louped garouv]

I have a new dj working at the club that just brings in her laptop and plugs it in to the mixer in the small dancefloor. She is a real pretty asian gal that always dresses very nicely, and just lets her laptop play. I came down from my upstairs shop/office and saw her just sitting there watching her laptop. No interaction with the small crowd. No encouragement on the mic. no mixing, tweaking or tuning each song as it auto-mixed from song to song. She just sat there on a barstool in her skirt and heels, as if waitng for something to happen.

scott. (15 years)

I say using the auto mix function is not "really" DJing....

it is more akin to being a human jukebox....

the beauty of these mixing programs is that they allow the programmer the opportunity to do "live edits" and whatnot, not that they can now perfectly beatmatch two songs........



just staring as the program autocues the next track is not cool IMO....


may as well hook up a IPOD and hit random

talk about lamesauce....

[scott fitlin]

What?

You call just letting a laptop run on auto pilot DJing? Not in my book, verrry far from it.

Spinning is working your crowd, building them up, telling a story through the music, having a dialogue with your dancefloor via the music and sound. Knowing how and when to peak them, when to educate them to new music, when to play a classic, the right classic, to get them to scream, to get them to laugh, also when to play a hit to entertain them and have fun, to get them to dance thier asses off, to make them feel emotion, to make them feel the heat of the throbbing underground " and sexually charge the atmosphear "! Taking them on the never ending journey. Hand mixing each selection not letting a computer do continuos auto play! Whether your spinning vinyl, CD,s or files from your laptop using Rane Serrato, or Ableton, the DJ works the crowd, the DJ weaves the fabric of the evening, the individual selections are the threads that create the entire tapestry, painting your story in sound.

I guess I would be disagreeing about there being many DJ,s out there, IMHO, many wannabes out there.

The systems? What I do, and what I think are the ideal setups are expensive. As far as teaching? I can do a system, but its a buisiness too, my partner and I sell custom designed systems, teaching isnt quite what I have in mind. Sharing some tips, and helpful info among friends is one thing, teaching the " How To " is another.

[scott fitlin]

You know, spinning isnt something one is taught so much in the technical sense, its something thats in you, yeah anyone can learn to beatmatch two tracks, using whatever source. But the true DJ makes the night flow, picks the next track, one which the melodies and notes and keys match together as well as the beats so the sound melts together, becomes one, instead of hearing two separate tracks being played. time becomes a blur. You blink your eyes, its five hours later, yet it felt like it was 20 minutes. The art of creating a seamless flow of energy, and energy that makes sense that doesnt sound preconcieved, that isnt something thats taught, the great DJ,s always had it in them, its a natural ability, same as a natural born football player, or actor, or whatever you choose.

When I used to play the Warsaw Ballroom on South Beach, we would get packed, 2000 people! 12 midnight, I was first bringing them up, 1:30 the room was rocking, 7AM, we were cruising and pumping, 10AM 600 people still in the club, morning music, I could play something like Miquel Brown - Close To Perfection, and when you got people to cry, thats when you knew you had done something spectacular. Playing a hit, or whatevers top 10 and making them scream is easy, making them cry was hard.

10PM to 10AM the next day!

[louped garouv]

10PM to 10AM the next day!

that's another modern Day DJ trend that I simply do not care for, 1 or 2 hour sets...

how can anyone "take you on a journey" or tell a story in that time period?

I haven't seen 10AM closing time since i left NOLA.....

we used to sell sunglasses right outside the front door, because hardly no one remembered to bring their sunglasses in at 3AM.....

[scott fitlin]

Man, I used to be very jealous of Junior at Sound Factory in NYC. They went till 12noon, 2PM, and sometimes 5PM the NEXT day!

There are still a few parties that go and go.........................

[scott fitlin]

You know what used to be absolutely incredible? Your hittin 5:30am, maybe 6am, your playing uptempo, very energetic but also beautiful music, you did the whole lightshow bit, lasers, strobes, and then, you just have your light guy turn off the lights, run the club in the dark, just the dim light, and we kept it dim around the bars. Just run dark for an hour. The walls would sweat!

Do It In The Dark, oh if those walls could talk!

This would be a good party in the right type of room in NOLA!

[edgewound]

Man, I used to be very jealous of Junior at Sound Factory in NYC. They went till 12noon, 2PM, and sometimes 5PM the NEXT day!

There are still a few parties that go and go.........................

Gee....how'd they do that for so long Scotty...with no sleep yet? Orange juice and Starbuck's?:p

[scott fitlin]

Gee....how'd they do that for so long Scotty...with no sleep yet? Orange juice and Starbuck's?:pSome used things, and believe it or not, some loved the music so much, that was the drug. The serious dancers, the people that were part of dance companies, they didnt need anything other than the music. Some people were chemically enhanced though, I cannot lie! I play stone cold sober, I can do 15hrs, as long as the sound is amazing, and I have the music I want, thats all I need. And a crowd. Then we got a party.

The music was hotttt!

These days I find alot of my downloads at www.beatport.com (http://www.beatport.com). Check through the house, prog house, tech house, and techno sections. Its the modern day record store.

[louped garouv]

turn off the lights, run the club in the dark, just the dim light, and we kept it dim around the bars. Just run dark for an hour. The walls would sweat!

Do It In The Dark, oh if those walls could talk!

This would be a good party in the right type of room in NOLA!

many of the rooms i used to frequent were so dark you couldn't see the guy cutting out a line on the bar two stools away.....


one of the reasons i just don't go out frequently in Denver,
the bars are simply too bright.... I dont' dig being able to see everyone and everything in a club.....

i don't think you are supposed to....

www.bleep.com (http://www.bleep.com) is a pretty good online music store for EDM too

[scott fitlin]

many of the rooms i used to frequent were so dark you couldn't see the guy cutting out a line on the bar two stools away.....


That seems about right!

Do It In The Dark!

:thmbsup:

[SMKSoundPro]

That seems about right!

Do It In The Dark!

:thmbsup:


Those were the days!

[scott fitlin]

They were, and a great club with fantastic sound can still be accomplished. The right room, in the right city, with the right sound, you can make it happen.

:)

[Jody]

Hello (new here).
mine sounds pretty decent.;)


http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t301/opusjody/th_jody_speaker_stack.jpg (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t301/opusjody/jody_speaker_stack.jpg)

[Hoerninger]

Hello (new here).
mine sounds pretty decent.;)

Welcome to the forum. :)
Any details?
We like to know everything. :D
___________
Peter

[Jody]

2 x Precision Devices 2450 (24") in 'National Thunder III' (first 2 in National Theatre, London)

8 x double 15" reflex, with a new reflex cone also from P.D. based on a discontinued JBL cone I believe.


New design (foamy surround!) 10" midrange units from PHL in France. Phillipe LeSage - Audax designer for X years (12 i think)

and my favorites, T.A.D 4001 units for the faerie frequencies.

All analogue electronics built (but not designed) by me. class ab mosfet amps, exept for a bit of bias on the HF amp channels to sort the distortion at low level playback.
Analogue system controller with driver time allignment and parametrics built in.

Allen & Heath rotary V6 mixer (a modern urei?)

Van Damme cables.

did i mention the tads?:D

[Hoerninger]

did i mention the tads?:D

Yes you did it ;) , thank you for posting :).
Please tell something about your horns, perhaps a better picture?
__________
Peter

[scott fitlin]

Nice system, please tell me more about your crossovers. Thanks.

:)

[Jody]

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t301/opusjody/CS2.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t301/opusjody/CS1.jpg

Horns. Thats why i'm here. i've come to find out about wooden horns. maple? profile?
These ones are fibreglass, our own design.

all amps & crossovers are opus audio. I'll find a photo

[Hoerninger]

These ones are fibreglass, our own design.

Your top is looking differently? :blink:
____________
Peter

[Jody]

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t301/opusjody/31.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t301/opusjody/image-1.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t301/opusjody/DSCF0254.jpg

[scott fitlin]

There was club here in NYC using Opus.

[JBL 4645]

Besides having to ware ear plugs due to the extreme sound environment of the PA sound system people yelling glasses been clinked etc I can’t bare it for no more than less than 1 hour.

http://www.slinkykids.com/images/creatives/aboutus/oh.gif

Sure it kicks and I’ve been to some really naff ones here in Bournemouth I mean pants! The Opera House has got a bad reverberation it’s shrilly due to the walls the sound between the cluster of PA loudspeakers hardly sounded like ((stereo)) and this is going back o around 1990!

As to what loudspeakers they where using I haven’t the first clue this would be in the main dance arena, where’s upstairs in one of the smaller rooms I believe they where JBL the cluster or configuration was a strange design, it was filled with lots of dry ice that poured out of the room.

I’ve just found out its haunted as well!:blink:

http://www.fireradio.co.uk/gallery.aspx?id=18

[Jody]

Your top is looking differently?

accoustifoam.