What to do with an E140

[pangea]

A friend of mine has a single E140 and I would like to help him make use of it somehow at home.

So, I'm asking if anyone could suggest what to do with it.

BR
Roland

[grumpy]

Does your friend play electric bass? :) -grumpy

[edgewound]

A friend of mine has a single E140 and I would like to help him make use of it somehow at home.

So, I'm asking if anyone could suggest what to do with it.

BR
Roland

Probably the simplest route would be to build a sub woofer cube with a 15" passive radiator on the opposite side.

Other than that...use grumpy's post.

[pangea]

Probably the simplest route would be to build a sub woofer cube with a 15" passive radiator on the opposite side.

Other than that...use grumpy's post.

No, he doesn't play guitar. He found it in a container. It had been thrown away because the dust cap had been dented, go figure!

How deep would the sub be able to go, if used with a passive radiator on opposite side?
I think he's got another cheapo 15" lying around, which might do for now.
Would a 2 to 2.5 cu ft box be enogh?

BR
Roland

[grumpy]

Ah, perhaps then have it reconed as an (almost) 2235 and build a real sub... ala B380.

[pangea]

Ah, perhaps then have it reconed as an (almost) 2235 and build a real sub... ala B380.

I'm not sure my friend would see the point of replacing a working cone to another that almost looks the same. He doesn't know the first thing about Fs or any of the implications that different T/S values create.

I therefore think it'll have to be done with what he's got.

BR
Roland

[edgewound]

I'm not sure my friend would see the point of replacing a working cone to another that almost looks the same. He doesn't know the first thing about Fs or any of the implications that different T/S values create.

I therefore think it'll have to be done with what he's got.

BR
Roland

Maybe use 1" MDF, build a 20" cube. Mass weight the PR to resonate at 30hz or so. Adjust weight as needed to suit sound taste. He'll need to make a simple low pass or drive it with an active x-over and amp.

Part of the fun of that type of project is the nearly no cost involved. The real audio guru's around here will probably laugh at this design....but whatever....it's not for them is it?

[soundboy]

I'm not sure my friend would see the point of replacing a working cone to another that almost looks the same. He doesn't know the first thing about Fs or any of the implications that different T/S values create.

I therefore think it'll have to be done with what he's got.

BR
Roland

Personally, I think it a waste of energy and time. No bass below 50-55 hz, and a short cone travel or Xmax. I never liked them much even for bass guitar, because of the lack of low end...he should sell it and start with something else, even if it is not JBL...just MHO.

[grumpy]

...I never liked them much even for bass guitar, because of the lack of low end...he should sell it and start with something else, even if it is not JBL...just MHO.

different strokes :) I liked 'em quite a bit doubled up in a well ported cab... not for all
styles of playing and there was no low B string (or precious few) back then. 2nd point
is a good one ... even after playing with it and some power tools for awhile :D

[edgewound]

Personally, I think it a waste of energy and time. No bass below 50-55 hz, and a short cone travel or Xmax. I never liked them much even for bass guitar, because of the lack of low end...he should sell it and start with something else, even if it is not JBL...just MHO.



That's the beauty and the utility of a passive radiator cabinet. The low end can be tuned quite easily by adding or taking away mass weighting.

Will it be ruler flat down to DC? Probably not.

Did Pangea ask for some suggestions for his friend's new found toy? I think he did.

There's nothing worse than being talked into doing nothing. Let him play and experiment....it's not like he's gonna burn his house down fer cryin' out loud....he found the discarded E140 in a dumpster....the cost would be FREE.

[scott fitlin]

Personally, I think it a waste of energy and time. No bass below 50-55 hz, and a short cone travel or Xmax. I never liked them much even for bass guitar, because of the lack of low end...he should sell it and start with something else, even if it is not JBL...just MHO.You talking about an E-130 or an E-140? The E-140 will get you down to 40hz, and that woofer has a nice sound to it for bass guitar or even certain SR apps. It IS punchy, I know this. Ive used em. The E-130 wont go below 50hz, and that was recommended for lead guitar.

[jim campbell]

A friend of mine has a single E140 and I would like to help him make use of it somehow at home.

So, I'm asking if anyone could suggest what to do with it.

BR
Roland
if he doesnt find a use ive got a bass bin with a big ol hole in it

[soundboy]

You talking about an E-130 or an E-140? The E-140 will get you down to 40hz, and that woofer has a nice sound to it for bass guitar or even certain SR apps. It IS punchy, I know this. Ive used em. The E-130 wont go below 50hz, and that was recommended for lead guitar.
Used them both, yup, years ago. Know the difference, too..The 140's WERE punchy for the bass guitar....but...the Fs is 40hz....not the F3....in any kind of alignment that would give even half way decent bass, with the qts of...what is it .21??? It just has no low end, or floor shake..and that's what bass is all about in a sub, I think..I am a celestion 12 fan, so the 130's did nothing for me except for clean stuff...and they are great for that.
I wasn't trying to do anything but save him some time...if he was looking for bass, free in a dumpster, or not....there isn't much there...
I think the best I got at the time was about 4.5 cu ft with a pair of them, tuned to 45 hz or something....clean, punchy, clear....and no bass.
The E155's were another story....and a bigger box to carry...and they weren't free in a dumpster, either...:)

[pangea]

Many thanks for your thoughts and suggestions.

I think I will recommend to him, that we build a sub with a PR on the opposite side.

However I'm not familiar with the use of PR, so I could do with some help tuning it.

Does added weight lower the tuning?
How much weight would be reasonable for a 30Hz tuning, roughly speaking?

If all works well, it will even make him see the light and become a JBL fan...:D

BR
Roland

[edgewound]

Does added weight lower the tuning?
How much weight would be reasonable for a 30Hz tuning, roughly speaking?



Yes....more mass will lower the resonant freq of the PR...and that will depend on the natural resonant freq of the PR to start with.

At the tuning freq of the PR, the active driver...E140 in this case...will have virtually no cone movement as the PR is resonating. It's the same concept as the tuning freq of a port in that the port is making the bass at it's resonant frequency. If you want to tune the PR lower....simply add a bit more weight....such as fender washers....we're talking grams or ounces here. The stiffer the PR the more weight it'll take.

A simple way to make a PR is to use a cheap stamped frame speaker and pry the magnet assembly off while retaining the cone and spider assembly intact for linearity of movement. Or....blown Peavey Black Widow or Scorpion 15" baskets with the cone assembly intact make a great passive radiator to build on....and they're cast aluminum. You can hot glue a hardboard disc with a threaded bolt through the center to the inside of the voice coil former to add or take away mass with fender washers. Your mass weights should be where the voice coil is to keep the weight centered.

You'll also need some sort of sinewave generator to zero in on your tuning freq. Download 'WinISD' to get the included tone generator. It's a freeware program.

www.linearteam.dk (http://www.linearteam.dk)

On top of all this....the E140 has a sensitivity of 100dB, 1w/1m....so it won't take much power to drive you out of the room.

Good luck and have fun.

[scott fitlin]

Used them both, yup, years ago. Know the difference, too..The 140's WERE punchy for the bass guitar....but...the Fs is 40hz....not the F3....in any kind of alignment that would give even half way decent bass, with the qts of...what is it .21??? It just has no low end, or floor shake..and that's what bass is all about in a sub, I think..I am a celestion 12 fan, so the 130's did nothing for me except for clean stuff...and they are great for that.
I wasn't trying to do anything but save him some time...if he was looking for bass, free in a dumpster, or not....there isn't much there...
I think the best I got at the time was about 4.5 cu ft with a pair of them, tuned to 45 hz or something....clean, punchy, clear....and no bass.
The E155's were another story....and a bigger box to carry...and they weren't free in a dumpster, either...:)Yeah, I hear you, i was just asking, but, I know the E-140 did give a punchy low end, not the deepest, but it worrked, IF you wanted that type of bass. I know the E-155,s well, used them for years as subs, loved em too, really loved em. But bigger driver for bigger box, and the dumpster didnt have any, so....

But, Ill tell you this, use some E-140,s as a midbass driver, and some really good 18,s underneath them, and stand back. But, not for portable use!

I agree though, the E-140 isnt a sub.

:)

[pangea]

Thanks for your help!!! It'll help me avoid many trial and error mistakes and for that I'm very grateful!!!:)

BR
Roland

[luxmanlover]

A(n) E-140 is not a sub. However, just for fun, take a couple hours and whip up a junkply 250L box, tune it to around 25Hz which will give you an EBS alignment. Be very careful applying the wattage. I think the results would be interesting. I'll bet that if your buddy isn't looking for crazy dB he might be pleasantly surprised.
Kelly

[Zilch]

E140 is not a sub. However, put TWO of them in a 4685 TCB clone, tune to 27 and 70 Hz, and be happy:

[We'll want pics, of course.... :p ]

[subwoof]

Do NOT make a cube. Fundamental rule for bass enclosures is not to have any internal dimension a mathmetical multiple of another. Hello standing waves??

The E140 is a superb LF woofer but does have a bit of an "overtone" which colors the sound. Remember that the MI speakers "produce" the sound while the Professional ones "reproduce" the sound.

ok?

[pangea]

Thank you all for your help, but what is an "EBS alignment"?

Could you please explain?

BR
Roland

[edgewound]

There's LOTs of subs on the market that have cube dimensions....probably because at those dimensions stuffed full of fiberfill it wont' make a damn bit of difference for standingwaves that are some 30 plus feet long with a passive radiator and a low pass filter

Geez....Pangea asked for a suggestion and I gave him a simple friggin' solution for his friend that FOUND AN E140 IN A DUMPSTER.

All you other geniuses that didn't step forward and give a suggestion, because mine obviously sucks... should go ahead and give your better solution....because obviously doing nothing would be far better.

I won't ever make another suggestion. I''l leave that up to the better minds here....k?

BTW....I never said an E140 is a subwoofer....I know that....it's a driver to drive the passive radiator that would be mass loaded to resonate in sub frequencies.

[Zilch]

I won't ever make another suggestion. I''l leave that up to the better minds here....k?Nope.

[luxmanlover]

EBS = Extended Bass Shelf. Basically take a box that is way too big for the driver, tune it lower than the Fs of the driver and there you are. If you run a simulation you will get 2 distinct "shelves", one being quite low. The kicker is that your power handling and effiency is way down http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/icons/icon4.gif, but , if spl isn't important, it is a viable alignment for some applications. (like dumpster subs)
Kelly

[pangea]

EBS = Extended Bass Shelf. Basically take a box that is way too big for the driver, tune it lower than the Fs of the driver and there you are. If you run a simulation you will get 2 distinct "shelves", one being quite low. The kicker is that your power handling and effiency is way down http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/icons/icon4.gif, but , if spl isn't important, it is a viable alignment for some applications. (like dumpster subs)
Kelly


Ahhh thanks!!!

Would a 4 cu ft box with a passive radiator next to the E140, be large enough for EBS?
I don't think that the reduced SPL will be an issue in his case.:D His main speakers are Jamo, which I think are danish.

BR
Roland

[grumpy]

if you go that large, you might not need a passive radiator. EBS -3 and -6dB examples
shown ("limited" to about 110dB SPL@1m in the low 30Hz range... would take <100w
maybe roll it off ~100Hz, depending on Jamo's & available crossover):

[grumpy]

Maybe use 1" MDF, build a 20" cube. Mass weight the PR to resonate at 30hz or soFor grins...

Simulated this with PartsExpress 15" PR (since they publish the specs and I'm too lazy
to bother looking elsewhere)... and compared with same size box, tuned ~30Hz also...
both are w/ 2nd order 80Hz LP running 100w input level.

Simple enough to cut a port bigger and add a passive radiator later, if one were so
inclined to try :) -grumpy

[pangea]

Many thanks for the graphics, I think the final result (30Hz tuning) will be sufficient to scare my friend out of his pants.:applaud:

Perhaps I will even try to get an empty 4530 scoop as well, to see what it can do. They are sometimes found for sale, for a few bucks. :D

BR
Roland

[grumpy]

ha. yeah, that would be a good kick in the seat. :D
just don't expect the bottom octave to be there.

[pangea]

ha. yeah, that would be a good kick in the seat. :D
just don't expect the bottom octave to be there.'

I had a pair of 4530's with K145's, back in the seventies, so I'm aware of its pros and cons and I imagine the shear force just might compensate for the lack of deep end.

It's also possible that my friend, or should I say his wife, will have objections to the size, that he will let me have the E140, in which case I will not hesitate to let it sit next to my large W15GTI subwoofer. :D

BR
Roland