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View Full Version : WHY SO MUCH BS BANDWIDTH?



Audiobeer
03-13-2007, 05:18 PM
Edited

mikebake
03-13-2007, 06:51 PM
It's where this place has been headed for quite some time; unfortunately, the tipping point is past.

4313B
03-13-2007, 06:54 PM
Edited

Don C
03-13-2007, 07:38 PM
All I can suggest is to lead by example. Don't post unless you have something useful or interesting to contribute.

mikebake
03-13-2007, 07:47 PM
All I can suggest is to lead by example. Don't post unless you have something useful or interesting to contribute.
That hasn't/doesn't work. It doesn't stop anyone, only moderating does, and no useful line has been drawn there either. It doesn't matter, as what this site was early on is gone and won't be re-seen.

mikebake
03-13-2007, 07:48 PM
Edited

Titanium Dome
03-13-2007, 09:00 PM
Edited


Edited


Edited

Edited.

Zilch
03-13-2007, 09:23 PM
Edited.

kingjames
03-13-2007, 10:07 PM
All I can suggest is to lead by example. Don't post unless you have something useful or interesting to contribute.

There are those who post because of what they think to be useful or interesting posts then there are those who are EDITED!:applaud:

Ian Mackenzie
03-14-2007, 01:13 AM
Funny I had the same conversation with a local member last night.

Its seems to be the way with these types on online interest forums. They go through a cycle of noise and burnout after a time.

When we joined there were only a few hundred members. It was new, interesting and fresh and there was quality content. Then there was the 2000 mark and now I am told 7K members. There is only so much that can be discussed and posted by veterans and they seldom post frequently now.

sourceoneaudio
03-14-2007, 01:17 AM
Since we missed all of the fun, and the harshness in this tread, just get rid of it. :flamer:


J/S-S1A :D

hjames
03-14-2007, 06:21 AM
s/n ratio is changing.


hey, thats MY quote!!

mikebake
03-14-2007, 06:40 AM
Stick a fork in it.

Maron Horonzakz
03-14-2007, 07:35 AM
Is this an exclusive club?

hjames
03-14-2007, 07:42 AM
Is this an exclusive club?

Nah - any old fogey can come here and whine about the old good days and kids these days ...

Are you a fold ogey?

Maron Horonzakz
03-14-2007, 07:45 AM
No ...Just farting as I walk through.;)

moldyoldy
03-14-2007, 08:41 AM
No ...Just farting as I walk through.;)

What's the bandwidth of that noise? :D

Maron Horonzakz
03-14-2007, 08:48 AM
I use pink noise full bandwidth. Clears the ozone.:D

morbo!
03-14-2007, 09:29 AM
well why we are waisting bandwidth

what a useless thread!

scott fitlin
03-14-2007, 09:42 AM
EDITED

LRBacon
03-14-2007, 10:01 AM
I wish I'd read this thread earlier before it was edited.:blink:

4313B
03-14-2007, 10:10 AM
Funny I had the same conversation with a local member last night.

Its seems to be the way with these types on online interest forums. They go through a cycle of noise and burnout after a time.

When we joined there were only a few hundred members. It was new, interesting and fresh and there was quality content. Then there was the 2000 mark and now I am told 7K members. There is only so much that can be discussed and posted by veterans and they seldom post frequently now.I think that sums it up.

I view the summer of 2004 as the turning point. I will admit that right now, as of this moment, I simply couldn't have envisioned it having gotten this tragically bad. The good thing is that I have finally reached that point where I just don't care anymore and that's a real nice burden to be out from under. :yes:

hjames
03-14-2007, 10:14 AM
The only way to get back to what you had is to make it members only - probably with a paid membership to keep out the riffraff.

The hardest part of THAT decision is deciding who is riffraff.
Is it the novices?
Is it the wannabe's?
Is it the flippers? They DO have the budget ...

DIY only??

Everest Buyers only??

Hard choices - I wish you well with that ...

4313B
03-14-2007, 10:35 AM
The only way to get back to what you had is to make it members only - probably with a paid membership to keep out the riffraff.

The hardest part of THAT decision is deciding who is riffraff.
Is it the novices?
Is it the wannabe's?
Is it the flippers? They DO have the budget ...

DIY only??

Everest Buyers only??

Hard choices - I wish you well with that ...No interest Heather. It is what it is. Those who can't deal with it can leave. It's just an Interent forum. There are maybe a dozen people who yammer on it daily and a couple dozen who show up to witness the spectacle and that's about it. Everyone else has come and gone with their questions answered. There are far more people who use this site for it's content than those who use it as a social outlet.

scott fitlin
03-14-2007, 10:39 AM
EDITED

4313B
03-14-2007, 10:42 AM
Giskard, let me ask you this, and I mean this seriously! Do you ever feel as if you gave away too much information?Oh absolutely! Most definitely! But as it was explained to me, in the scheme of things, in the big picture, it won't end up mattering. And I think that someday more will be revealed.

scott fitlin
03-14-2007, 10:51 AM
EDITROL

scott fitlin
03-14-2007, 10:53 AM
EDITED

moldyoldy
03-14-2007, 11:49 AM
If ignorance is bliss, having all the answers must be miserable indeed. ;)

scott fitlin
03-14-2007, 12:03 PM
EDITED ;)EDITED

:)

Ken Pachkowsky
03-14-2007, 12:49 PM
We have seen this discussion many times.

Obviously we all have similar and sometimes very different reasons for hitting the link to this site. Frankly, I canít understand why everyoneís needs canít be met.

It would be simple to set up an area that is exclusive to the hard core technical types. Those who are so inclined can post and dissect graphs till the cows come home without being interrupted by other babble or stupid questions. The Project May section has been around for 3 years without to much fuss on who has and does not have access to it. Correct me if I am wrong but anyone who wants access can get it?

There are many threads here that I never look at. Not everyone wants to upgrade a pair of XXX or build a pair of XXX. That being said, I enjoy looking at the end result of all members projects.

My view on what constitutes wasted bandwidth can differ greatly from anotherís and vise versa.

T Domes ďAd of the DayĒ thread is a good example. I have never even clicked on that thread, because I have no interest! The fact that it has over 500 replies tells me that others do find it interesting and thatís fine. I am sure T Dome would not give a damn nor should he.

I joined this site because members shared a passion that has been a substantial part of mine and perhaps there lives. I have had great dialog with some and butted heads with others, just like the real world.

The point is, you can make this site whatever you want it to be...or not:)

Ken

edgewound
03-14-2007, 01:00 PM
Great post, Ken.

This is, after all....a public forum...right?

Bill H.
03-14-2007, 01:02 PM
I don't post much because I have very little to offer with all the other talent that reside here. I mainly read and lurk because it relaxes me, but I have donated every spring for the last three years for the priviledge of learning.
Thanks Bill

kingjames
03-14-2007, 01:25 PM
It's amazing how this thread on BS Banwidth has turned into BS Bandwidth yet alot of people see fit to reply to it.

No matter what thread is posted on this forum someone will call it BS Bandwidth

I thought this forum was designed to deal with this phenomenon.


1... DIY forum, who would ever call this BS Banwidth
2...Forum Announcements (where we get to wish members a Happy Birthday) could be considered BS Bandwidth
3...Lansing Marketplace could be considered BS Bandwidth.
4...Project May, this would never be called BS Bandwidth
5...Lansing General Product I suppose this could be called BS Bandwidth.
5...Lansing Product Tech Help,this could be called BS Bandwidth.
6...General Audio Discussion will only be called BS Bandwidth if JBL is not discussed.
7...Lansing Related Gear,This could be called BS Bandwidth.
8...Music, we know this is BS Bandwidth because my albums are not listed by other members.
9...General Audio Discussion,considered BS Bandwidth
10.Non Audio Discussion, we all know that this is most definately the core of all BS Bandwidth,and likely so because, this is where that BS Banwidth is suppose to be.

Like Ken said, Bs bandwidth is perceived differently by different members.

I as well, like to see the end of projects that people do in the DIY forum and to reply in that forum on that project would be BS Bandwidth on my part as I don't know spit about DIY projects but I would like to say "hey,you've come a long way on that and made something real nice" but I keep my place and don't say anything.

What's wrong with coming here to read about things that you like and things you hear about in the world?

Hell even BS Bandwidth is fun to read.;)

scott fitlin
03-14-2007, 01:45 PM
EDITED AGAIN

kingjames
03-14-2007, 01:52 PM
I didn't expect anything different;)

scott fitlin
03-14-2007, 01:55 PM
EDITED

Hoerninger
03-14-2007, 02:16 PM
:spchless:
_______
Peter :)

scott fitlin
03-14-2007, 02:35 PM
I think its better off EDITED:rotfl:

scott fitlin
03-14-2007, 02:40 PM
That was EDITED

edgewound
03-14-2007, 02:42 PM
---Quote (Originally by edgewound)---
Great post, Ken.

This is, after all....a public forum...right?
---End Quote---
So, let me think about this! Ok, here we go. :)

You go to a public restroom, the guy next to you keeps looking over to see what your working with, your like HEY WTF?

Guy says " This is, after all....a public restroom...right?

:rotfl: This has been a BS waste of Bandwidth! :rotfl:



Sometimes you can get busted through e-mail.


C'mon, Scottie...

Could you think of a better analogy?

Please....

scott fitlin
03-14-2007, 02:43 PM
C'mon, Scottie...

Could you think of a better analogy?

Please....No, I couldnt, it just came to mind, and upppp it went. Ahh, beauty of the internet, and online posts!

:D

scott fitlin
03-14-2007, 02:48 PM
Sometimes you can get busted through e-mail.


C'mon, Scottie...

Could you think of a better analogy?

Please....Hey! No fair, how did you do that?

Hmm.

:applaud:

edgewound
03-14-2007, 02:52 PM
Hey! No fair, how did you do that?

Hmm.

:applaud:

It's easy:D

scott fitlin
03-14-2007, 02:52 PM
:rotfl:

Zilch
03-14-2007, 03:32 PM
I as well, like to see the end of projects that people do in the DIY forum....It'll be a while, yet.... ;)

kingjames
03-14-2007, 03:48 PM
Zilch,that quote of mine is very misleading without the rest of the quote so I took the liberty of pasting the whole quote...

"I as well, like to see the end of projects that people do in the DIY forum and to reply in that forum on that project would be BS Bandwidth on my part as I don't know spit about DIY projects but I would like to say "hey,you've come a long way on that and made something real nice" but I keep my place and don't say anything"

Now it doesn't sound like I want the end of all projects in the DIY forum.

If I erred in judgement then my apologies.;)

scott fitlin
03-14-2007, 04:03 PM
C`mon guys, edit that stuff down.

Please dont bring up groups like that from a time like that.

No SS, no WWII groups like THEM, please, cause this will get unfreindly quickly.

jim campbell
03-14-2007, 04:14 PM
im sure that if any group of members sat down face to face other topics besides audio in general and jb in particular would be discussed.i think its impossible to keep a group of some 7000 people from all over the world on such a narrow list of topics.perhaps we should revell in the ability to communicate with like minded folks the world over at the push of a button........three chairs .........no waiting...................:blah::blah::blah:

edgewound
03-14-2007, 04:23 PM
This thread really belongs in "Non-Audio Discussions".

kingjames
03-14-2007, 04:28 PM
This thread really belongs in "Non-Audio Discussions".

Now I think were getting somewhere.;)

Zilch
03-14-2007, 04:32 PM
If I erred in judgement then my apologies.;)Naw, I'm just makin' outta context fun here.

It's abundantly evident that MY DIY project will NEVER end! :p

A bit of site history here: the DIY forum exists largely as a result of me polluting the rest of the forums with my "stuff." :thmbsup:

hjames
03-14-2007, 04:40 PM
EDITED / Censored

edgewound
03-14-2007, 04:47 PM
.


Oftentimes, absurdity is needed to point out the absurd.

I see fine, thank you.:D

scott fitlin
03-14-2007, 05:02 PM
Thank you!

Robh3606
03-14-2007, 05:47 PM
A bit of site history here: the DIY forum exists largely as a result of me polluting the rest of the forums with my "stuff." :thmbsup:


Edited

Rob:)

Ken Pachkowsky
03-14-2007, 06:36 PM
A bit of site history here: the DIY forum exists largely as a result of me polluting the rest of the forums with my "stuff." :thmbsup:

Now that could be true.....and is funny:D

Ken

JBLRaiser
03-14-2007, 07:08 PM
this place turned up the BS heat about the same time Yahoo halted it's news message boards. A lot of pent up points of view. I'm as guilty as any, but I've been here long enough to get to know who is who and dole out respect accordingly. Take Zilch for instance. When I first came in contact with Z on this forum, he devoured my question and comments, chewed them up, swallowed them, then regurgitated the answer back in my face. It wasn't a pretty site. You can imagine I wasn't too thrilled with his rapier like sense of humor. But, you live and learn. From that I learned to appreciate the wit to get to the wisdom. This is often true of others here as well who may serve their knowledge up on less than a silver platter. One of my favorites here has referred to me as a 'meathead'. Well, I can't say I've lived with the inlaws, but they did send us on a wonderful honeymoon to Banff almost twenty years ago. :D I enjoy everything this person offers and could never approach the knowledge they impart. Maybe just a little thicker skin is in order here. It's worked wonders for me. ;)

mikebake
03-14-2007, 07:23 PM
You da man, brother.

moldyoldy
03-14-2007, 08:47 PM
Bullshit; :bs:

Excerpt from Wikipedia,

...snip..." the term 'bullshit artist' may imply a measure of respect for the skill required to bullshit effectively. It is by no means necessary to be inaccurate or wrong to be bullshitting, simply being overly pompous, presumptuous, or putting on excessively academic airs, may also be labelled in some cultural subgroups as bullshitting."

:p

kingjames
03-15-2007, 01:23 PM
Edited, Got cha!:applaud:

Ken Pachkowsky
03-15-2007, 01:57 PM
I don't post much because I have very little to offer with all the other talent that reside here. I mainly read and lurk because it relaxes me, but I have donated every spring for the last three years for the priviledge of learning.
Thanks Bill

Nice to hear from you Bill. I suspect you are one of many.

Ken

Titanium Dome
03-16-2007, 03:49 PM
Nice to hear from you Bill. I suspect you are one of many.

Ken

I prefer 7 of 9.

Edited.

grumpy
03-16-2007, 04:30 PM
I prefer 7 of 9.


:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Ken Pachkowsky
03-16-2007, 04:35 PM
I prefer 7 of 9.

Edited.

As always, to the point.:D

Ken

Audiobeer
03-17-2007, 12:39 PM
Sorry folks. When I originaly posted this thread I wrote some sentences that may be interpreted as antagonistic. At the time I wrote it some big Altec fans were bitch slapping each other while a meaningless (IMHO) discussion was going on about some infinity speakers and it's value. This was also going on about the same time a slew of misimformation by another poster misguiding someone on the usage and values on a crossover. At the time I kept asking myself how in the hell does a poster who was asking what would be a good starter JBL less than a year ago, post advice on several models he/she has since owned and was stepping up to help any newbie with his bogus advice. A few years ago the voice of reason (Many members) would havce stepped in and straightened this out. Ahh but the world has opened up and no one has time (I don't have the expertise) to pipe up every few minutes.

Anyway after venting I went back to delete and found all I could do was edit so I did.

The jest of my venting was not particularly directed towards anyone but......I could give a flying crap about Altecs, Fisher, Pioneer, Marantz are any other early version of the mass produced Japanese speakers products when the USA electronic companies decided to farm out. And just so you know I'm not a racist in anyway I find the current mass produced Japanese stuff better than any American mass produced stuff today. I love the discussion of JBL Heritage products. Don't mind hearing about how other products compare side by side but.......

Seems that there is a bit of hostility amongst a few of the new members towards each other. As a matter of fact we all know the individuals in questions politics, likes and dislikes, ect. But now it seems they want to stalk each other on the boards. I even agree with ones politics over the other. Yet I believe the 2 should shut the $%#& about each other. You truly are wasting bandwidth as I am now.

So right or wrong that's what I was venting about. I was comparing the old boards to the new and felt like venting.

Mr. Widget
03-17-2007, 12:59 PM
Thanks beer... I missed your initial post and wondered what in hell this was all about.

FWIW I agree with your summary of the situation. I guess it is just an unfortunate reality of life on the web. I think intelligent conversations about Infinity et al are fine, but when it results in a bunch of "mine is better than yours" then what is the point.


Widget

kingjames
03-17-2007, 01:45 PM
Sorry folks. When I originaly posted this thread I wrote some sentences that may be interpreted as antagonistic. At the time I wrote it some big Altec fans were bitch slapping each other while a meaningless (IMHO) discussion was going on about some infinity speakers and it's value.

I posted the thread on the meaningless Infinity speakers. The purpose of this thread was to show the high prices all speakers are bringing on Ebay. It was not posted for your approval nor do I seek it.

All I can say is that if it's so meaningless then why in the hell did you read it?

I think the problem here is that the world is changing and yet some member's here think they can live in the 19th century. Wake up and smell the coffee.

What makes this forum great is the diversity of it's people with their different opinions on what is important and what is not.

And about your statement about the Infinity thread being meaningless well let me borrow a line from the movie "Gone With The Wind" , "Frankly My Dear I don't Give A Damn!

Mr. Widget
03-17-2007, 02:00 PM
I posted the thread on the meaningless Infinity speakers. The purpose of this thread was to show the high prices all speakers are bringing on Ebay. It was not posted for your approval nor do I seek it.

All I can say is that if it's so meaningless then why in the hell did you read it?I agree with you... I didn't read that thread because it didn't interest me... though it was a perfectly acceptable thread. If a large number of people want to talk about how expensive balls of twine are going for on eBay or politics so be it.

It does become frustrating though when those posts start to out number actual Lansing Heritage threads and posts... I think this is the frustration Audiobeer was venting... I don't think he meant to single you out.


Widget

Fred Sanford
03-17-2007, 02:10 PM
I could be wrong, but I can certainly see it ultimately becoming an issue for the moderators that HAVE to read every post, lots of random noise could cause them to lose interest in the volunteer job they perform. Maybe, at the least, we (myself included) should all keep that aspect of it in mind- there are generous humans sitting at screens slogging through these posts, and while what we type might not need to be 100% Lansing Heritage content, a high percentage of it should be of value to the forum members.

This is a blanket statement, not aimed at any of the particular examples Mr. A. Beer pointed out...

je (...mmmm, A Beer...):cheers:

kingjames
03-17-2007, 02:18 PM
Mr.Widget it is one thing to delete a thread right after posting it because you feel it was too strong of a reply which I have done on Occasion but, then I don't post part of it in a second thread to show what I deleted in the first thread.What sense does that make.

I took it personal because he said it was meaningless. I try to live my life not making meaningless mistakes and don't need to be called out on something as meaingless as what he said.

I see this forum has quite a few area's that cover BS Bandwidth and I suppose it was designed to keep the BS out of the other thread's.

I don't go to the DIY forums and bitch about not understanding what their talking about, I only go there to read because everything else there is over my head so I don't comment on anything that I don't have knowledge of out of respect for the people there with their projects.

Why is it that the die hard JBL members see fit to trash all the less technical area's with there accusations.

They come into an area that I feel comfortable with like,Non Audio Discussions and say what we talk about is BS Bandwidth.

I have read the description of this area and I am within the rules to post whatever I want as long I stay within the forum guidelines.

I don't know why there is more BS Bandwidth then actual DIY-er's, or people capable of talking serious JBL but maybe the attitudes of some of the members here might have something to do with it.

4313B
03-17-2007, 02:32 PM
there are generous humans sitting at screens slogging through these postsWhile that was true at one time - Not anymore there isn't. This is no longer a controlled enviroment. Absolutely, positively use at your own risk!

At least now I understand Audiobeer's response to me. Sorry Audiobeer, I don't police this crap at all anymore. Yeah, as Don has stated several times, I did build it, but it's waaaaaay out of my hands now. :rotfl:

Don has also stated several times that this is simply the way Internet forums go. I think the lack of feedback or policy change is proof positive that this forum is functioning correctly as is. I suppose I could be wrong.

mikebake
03-17-2007, 02:43 PM
What makes this forum great is the diversity of it's people with their different opinions on what is important and what is not.


It's also what makes it not great.

scott fitlin
03-17-2007, 02:47 PM
You know what? Yes, there are moderators on this forum, I remember once upon a time, we didnt have them, and we didnt need them either. And at the time, we were a civil forum, many flare ups on other forums. However, through time we grew, and things changed, and we wound up having mods.

But, we cant delete everything, or tell everyone how to act either. And when we do delete posts or close threads because of nasty BS, we get screamed at, and then, when we dont delete or close to some peoples satisfactions, we get screamed at.

After a while? You just say, hey whatever! Unless I see REALLY inappropriate stuff or members really getting into it, I dont even bother!

Just like this is the way internet forums go, so go some peoples desire to express real talk on said forums.

4313B
03-17-2007, 02:49 PM
It's also what makes it not great.Exactly. It makes it just like any other Internet forum. But whatever...

BTW - This "diversity" kick the planet is on right now is comical. What will they think of next. :rotfl:
Goofballs... I guess they are just hedging their bets against extinction.

After a while? You just say, hey whatever! Unless I see REALLY inappropriate stuff or members really getting into it, I dont even bother!Nice summation!

Zilch
03-17-2007, 03:16 PM
It was interesting to me that Kingjames's list of BS found it everywhere except Project May and DIY. That's why I posted the snippet about DIY.

There was a time when DIY was considered "noise," especially DIY as I practice it. Still is, by some. We had a long discussion about it on the forum, and I participated in the role of devil's advocate. There were several calls for that thread to be shut down as it progressed.

Point being that the site evolves to meet the needs and desires of the participants. DIY, I believe, is now seen as one of the most valuable and interesting forums here.

I've got my peeves, too, though I accept that I'm certainly no one to talk. Two that come to mind are "What's playing now," which was originally for "special" finds. I have no interest in knowing every disc that some member or members slip into their player, and the "specials" are now buried in the daily routine "playlist."

The second is similar, now that I think about it. Is there some value in diligently posting every flea market non-JBL acquisition here? I certainly get as excited by vintage JBL bargain finds as anybody else, but who gives a whit about the rest of it?

I guess if others do, I'm perfectly capable of ignoring these and others. As was already suggested, the noise ebbs and swells, and, ultimately, an appropriate balance prevails. I'd just like to see this site's balance skewed more to the serious than the frivolous in general content. There's plenty of other sites already specializing in blather and pap out there....

Audiobeer
03-17-2007, 03:24 PM
I posted the thread on the meaningless Infinity speakers. The purpose of this thread was to show the high prices all speakers are bringing on Ebay. It was not posted for your approval nor do I seek it.

All I can say is that if it's so meaningless then why in the hell did you read it?

I think the problem here is that the world is changing and yet some member's here think they can live in the 19th century. Wake up and smell the coffee.

What makes this forum great is the diversity of it's people with their different opinions on what is important and what is not.

And about your statement about the Infinity thread being meaningless well let me borrow a line from the movie "Gone With The Wind" , "Frankly My Dear I don't Give A Damn!

Touchy eh. Your not one of those folks that wants to stand up and defends the quality of his farts after someone complains about an awful smell? :)

The only reason I posted what I tried to delete was due to pms I was getting. I will state that I could give a crap about Infinity, Pioneers or any other speakers not originaly listed in the namesake unless comparing them head to head with JBLs. I could care less what thier going price is nor do a care what the cost of butt kickers onEbay. Tell me what a pair of L-300s cost or some 4350s and I'm glued to the screen. If the thread would have read....."Hey look here at want Infinitys are selling for on Ebay" then I probably would have avoided it. There are many other boards that do a great job of that like Audionirvana and others. That's my opinion. Please do not assume that I know you, judge you, are have an opinion one way or the other of you, are that your posting triggered my response. I have a right to my opinion and I have stated it. Now you have too. This is exactly what I was reffering to when I was talking about personalities, people taking things personaly and bickering.
My God man your coming off as a Cubbies Fan? :applaud:

4313B
03-17-2007, 03:47 PM
There was a time when DIY was considered "noise," especially DIY as I practice it. Still is, by some. We had a long discussion about it on the forum, and I participated in the role of devil's advocate. There were several calls for that thread to be shut down as it progressed.

Point being that the site evolves to meet the needs and desires of the participants. DIY, I believe, is now seen as one of the most valuable and interesting forums here.Interesting perhaps. I wouldn't call it "valuable". Too much speculation filling the void of missing information. Some of it is flat out embarrassing. I'm told there are other DIY forums out there that are significantly better. DIY didn't fit in my definition of the Lansing Heritage website per se although I've been heavily involved with DIY for over 30 years now; Especially with how it originally presented itself. I think the new header was correct and it ended up where it belonged. It was suggested it be split further into "DIY Done Right" and "DIY Done HTFWFLI" or "DIYDQAD" but the idea was nixed due to lack of interest. I had alot to say about it but I'm not inclined to post about it any longer. It's a dead issue for me.

Titanium Dome
03-17-2007, 04:30 PM
I'd like to see the Lansing Product Forums moderated closely, and any off topic noise removed or, in the case of some nimrod starting a thread in the wrong place, moved to the correct forum.

I'd like to see the Lansing Related Forums moderated about as they are now, EXCEPT with all threads having a time-delayed fuse on them, and if someone doesn't request and receive an extension to keep a thread alive or make it a sticky, the whole thread should blow up and disappear.

The Forum Issues Forums can pretty much stay as they are, except the birthday greetings should also have a timer on them and disappear after a while.

As for the Off Topic Forums, they should be mine-swept every week and the whole damn thing obliterated. Let anyone post anything they want (under the forum rules) with the knowledge that in a week, it's gone.

I think the forums divisions are fine, but not every forum is equal in importance. As the site gets larger, take care to preserve the important stuff, and just keep flushing the toilet on the rest while still letting anyone who wants take a crap in the toilet.

Time sensitive deletion of non-core material is fair to everyone and it keeps the place in better order.

Zilch
03-17-2007, 04:32 PM
It was suggested it be split further into "DIY Done Right" and "DIY Done HTFWFLI" or "DIYDQAD" but the idea was nixed due to lack of interest.

:rotfl:

[I know where I'd be.... ;) ]

kingjames
03-17-2007, 04:49 PM
My God man your coming off as a Cubbies Fan? :applaud:

Audiobeer for the record, I am a Cubbie Fan,all my life. Like I said in earlier posts I am always for the underdog.:D

I will give you one thing here that I did not word the posting of that thread correctly and I did not notice until you brought it to my intention.The wording I believe prompted you to open up this thread just to realize it was something you were not interested in.My bad, I will choose my words correctly next time.

I can not really fault you people who moan about BS Bandwidth because I have yet to understand what the problem is. I don't say this in a sarcastic way but, maybe I am missing something here.

Maybe now is the time to ask for a description of BS Bandwidth so that I may understand fully why it is so taboo here.

I can understand that this is LHF and if everything is only to be LHF related. I can live with that.

I assumed (bad word don't like to use it) that Non Audio Discussion for things not related to Lansing products was for those members who show interest in other things as well.

I don't want to rock the boat here as I enjoy the forum for many things and, maybe my preference in liking the Cubs will explain a lot more.

If this site is to be all Lansing related material in every thread then you must remove all the other threads to eliminate the BS Banwidth. I will still like to be a member if that happen's and then I will keep all my posts to the subject matter.

When you offer an off topic area you have to remember that you will invite off topic material.

Audiobeer, this is not directed at you or anyone else but rather just a general statement.

scott fitlin
03-17-2007, 05:14 PM
I assumed (bad word don't like to use it) that Non Audio Discussion for things not related to Lansing products was for those members who show interest in other things as well.

Yeah, thats what it is for, and originally it was one small section called Off Topic, and was for our birthdays, humor threads, political talks, scandal and other current events.

I think this part of the forum gets alot more usage than was really anticipated at the time, and may not have been for Infinity, Ohm, Marantz, or, we just never envisioned this as being a forum for every other brand of audio gear. It was primarily Lansing oriented, which means Altec and JBL, and the forum definitely leans to the JBL end of things.

From my point of veiw, sometimes it does seem a bit cluttered with less than astute audio being touted. This, at one time, was really a serious audio forum. The posts on this forum were some of the best anywhere. Really good technical info ranging from electronic advice, speaker and driver choices, alignment, cabinet construction, cabinet tuning, even cabinet refinishing ( some of the best DIY cabinet restoration and refinishing in step by step posts with pics from someone in THIS thread ), really good audio talk, and good opinion offered up.

Nowadays, browsing the forum seems a bit like shopping at Costco.

Mr. Widget
03-17-2007, 05:21 PM
Nowadays, browsing the forum seems a bit like shopping at Costco.:rotfl:

Those are the good days... I get annoyed when it feels more like Walmart.


Widget

scott fitlin
03-17-2007, 05:27 PM
:rotfl:

Those are the good days... I get annoyed when it feels more like Walmart.


WidgetYou havent been to the Costco in my neck of the woods. :D

I cant say Walmart as I just about never go into one.

Were on the same page, though.

Widget on point, as usual. :applaud:

Mr. Widget
03-17-2007, 05:34 PM
I had never been to a Walmart until one moved into my hometown, where my parents still live... most of the old shops downtown have folded and you either drive 30 minutes to the next town or you shop there... I usually make the drive, but have ventured into that Walmart a couple of times... Costco feels like Bloomingdale's by comparison... what a lame store... no one is knowledgeable or available to help you, yet there are people out front to say hello???? What is that about?


Widget

kingjames
03-17-2007, 05:43 PM
I think this part of the forum gets alot more usage than was really anticipated at the time, and may not have been for Infinity, Ohm, Marantz, or, we just never envisioned this as being a forum for every other brand of audio gear. It was primarily Lansing oriented, which means Altec and JBL, and the forum definitely leans to the JBL end of things.


I used Infinity's for 2 reasons

1. The crazy price paid for them and
2. They are now a JBL product.

I quoted this whole paragraph because I personally find meaning in what you say.

If the good old days here were like the good old days in general then I can really see the disapointment.

Unfortunately we all know things change and sometimes it can be for the better but we all must accept the change and if the change is not welcomed then it must be explained why not.

If you noticed the original reply's to this thread were all labeled "Edited" now that might have been an accepted way amongst some members to reply that way but it done nothing to us members looking for an explanation.

We all here can not assume( I hate this word) here that people will understand abbreviated responses to something that is so touchy in the minds of some of the member's here.

A brief explanation is all that is necessary and I believe the tone of that explanation will determine what kind of a response you will get.

In my case I will do my part in toning down the BS Bandwidth as I fully understand it's meaning now.

I will try to keep my post's to the subject matter and maybe it will help to bring this place back to it's former glory and I think this would be good thing.

scott fitlin
03-17-2007, 05:52 PM
I hear you KJ, and your correct.

I was just speaking my point of veiw. Yes, the good ol days were in fact something like General.

However, the audio talk, the audio info and how to was really fantastic. Really that good, and was pretty much JBL and Altec, and as you probably already know, fans of both camps, Altec and JBL are pretty much set in their preference for their brands! And have plenty to say about it AND the talk of other brands too! By this, I mean go over to the Klipsch forum and start talkin JBl and see how they treat you.

Yeah, Infinity does sit within, and under the Harman umbrella.

scott fitlin
03-17-2007, 05:54 PM
I had never been to a Walmart until one moved into my hometown, where my parents still live... most of the old shops downtown have folded and you either drive 30 minutes to the next town or you shop there... I usually make the drive, but have ventured into that Walmart a couple of times... Costco feels like Bloomingdale's by comparison... what a lame store... no one is knowledgeable or available to help you, yet there are people out front to say hello???? What is that about?


WidgetOh? And what? You expect to go into a store and talk to knowledgable salespeople? Thats soooooo 20th century.

:)

Titanium Dome
03-17-2007, 06:28 PM
Maybe there could be a special, secret area where only the veteran, smart people can go. Anyone who signed up after 2003 would automatically be locked out unless one of the gifted ones invited him or her in. Then that person would be on probation for three years, and if he or she stepped out of line or posted something the keepers didn't like, the novice would get kicked back out into the dog yard with the rest of us, where we could snarl and snap at the loser like the growling, barking dogs we are. :biting:

Most of this can be accomplished via PM right now, but it kind of defeats the main purpose of a forum, which is to get your thoughts, ideas, and information posted so people can see it. This way you can show how much smarter you are, how much more you know, and how much more experience you have. That's a win for everybody! :banana:

It sucks though when your brilliance is dimmed by the flying fur, barking, vomiting, urine, and excrement of dogs that are tracking all over your brilliance. Darn dogs! :banghead: Leash 'em! Muzzle 'em! Put 'em in cages! Put 'em down!

Where's my gun? :die: Oh, WOOF! Dogs don't have guns.

kingjames
03-17-2007, 06:48 PM
Ti-Dome you have such a way with words? I like it, I like it alot!:applaud:

Robh3606
03-17-2007, 09:35 PM
There was a time when DIY was considered "noise," especially DIY as I practice it. Still is, by some. We had a long discussion about it on the forum, and I participated in the role of devil's advocate. There were several calls for that thread to be shut down as it progressed.

Hello Zilch

I am not sure I agree with you on that. There was always a good sized DIY membership on this site. You missed at least 3 of the earlier forums and we always were able to balance the threads and keep them relatively focused. There is a difference to running a concise DIY thread and blogging with no clear direction or conclusion. To suggest that all DIY was considered noise is simply not true.

Hello Giskard


DIY didn't fit in my definition of the Lansing Heritage website per se although I've been heavily involved with DIY for over 30 years now; Especially with how it originally presented itself.

That may be true but it already had a presence before you got here. It was too late, the cat was already out of the bag.

Rob :)

jim campbell
03-17-2007, 09:48 PM
considering that jbl is no longer building the type of speakers that many here seek one would think that diy would be one of the pre-eminent threads.as the dream systems become scarce diy may well end up as the only avenue to audio nirvana

Robh3606
03-17-2007, 10:16 PM
as the dream systems become scarce diy may well end up as the only avenue to audio nirvana

Yes that's true for the older systems. As long as JBL supports the drivers with recone kits we can use cores to build up "new drivers" at reasonable prices. We can do it one driver set at a time if need be. They have their current systems as well, many of which will out perform these "dream" systems. You have to decide which way to go.

Rob:)

4313B
03-17-2007, 10:16 PM
Hello Giskard

That may be true but it already had a presence before you got here. It was too late, the cat was already out of the bag.

Rob :)See -

Hello Zilch

I am not sure I agree with you on that. There was always a good sized DIY membership on this site. You missed at least 3 of the earlier forums and we always were able to balance the threads and keep them relatively focused. There is a difference to running a concise DIY thread and blogging with no clear direction or conclusion. To suggest that all DIY was considered noise is simply not true.Agreed. It was being handled correctly. A TON of work went into all that.

Audiobeer
03-17-2007, 10:21 PM
KJ i just want you to understand my rant was never intended for anyone person or in particular you. And I do love the Cards-Cubs series! I knew you were a Cubs fan. This year you are loading your team up. It will be great watching the games and LISTENING TO THEM ON MY JBLS! :D

Zilch
03-17-2007, 10:22 PM
There is a difference to running a concise DIY thread and blogging with no clear direction or conclusion. To suggest that all DIY was considered noise is simply not true.Well, part of that is unfair. The direction has been clear from the onset.

[I've wandered and stumbled a bit here and there, is all.... :D ]

4313B
03-17-2007, 10:45 PM
Well, part of that is unfair. The direction has been clear from the onset.

[I've wandered and stumbled a bit here and there, is all.... :D ]It has? I missed it in all the excitement. What was the direction?

Seriously though, it hasn't been just you and not everyone can be John or Rick. There have been other well done DIY's but their names escape me at the moment. My sincere apologies!

Mr. Widget
03-17-2007, 11:05 PM
The direction has been clear from the onset.
Hmmm... from my perspective I have seen some underlying themes in all of your work, and your willingness to help others on the forum is quite commendable, but I would be hard pressed to point to the initial or current direction of your threads/work.



[I've wandered and stumbled a bit here and there, is all.... :D ]I can certainly relate to that! While I have been involved in a few other projects along the way I have spent a bit over two years working on and refining one design. It is almost ready for primetime. :D


Widget

Robh3606
03-17-2007, 11:58 PM
[I've wandered and stumbled a bit here and there, is all.... :D ]

Well haven't we all!

Rob:)

Ian Mackenzie
03-18-2007, 01:26 AM
Maybe there could be a special, secret area where only the veteran, smart people can go. Anyone who signed up after 2003 would automatically be locked out unless one of the gifted ones invited him or her in. Then that person would be on probation for three years, and if he or she stepped out of line or posted something the keepers didn't like, the novice would get kicked back out into the dog yard with the rest of us, where we could snarl and snap at the loser like the growling, barking dogs we are. :biting:

Most of this can be accomplished via PM right now, but it kind of defeats the main purpose of a forum, which is to get your thoughts, ideas, and information posted so people can see it. This way you can show how much smarter you are, how much more you know, and how much more experience you have. That's a win for everybody! :banana:

It sucks though when your brilliance is dimmed by the flying fur, barking, vomiting, urine, and excrement of dogs that are tracking all over your brilliance. Darn dogs! :banghead: Leash 'em! Muzzle 'em! Put 'em in cages! Put 'em down!

Where's my gun? :die: Oh, WOOF! Dogs don't have guns.

Yes I know I quote the entire post. Only because I can lay claim to every word as a matter of public and well private record.

I think diy can be taken too seriously and at the other extreme an endless blogg of tinkering.

This seems to happen on this forum particularly when a lot of the prime data is held by a priviliged few and the masses have to start from scratch. Fortunately is lot of data is now in read only form and there is no reason why someone cannot get a reasonable result using an existing design.

I am not sure that going for broke on SOA drivers is a credible approach to creating a dream system. The scale of expertise, resources and experience required is generally well beyond what an individual is capable of or can tap into.

The exception being to clone a recent JBL consumer design but even that has some extreme difficulties not to mention the expense.

If what you want diy hifi exercise you will get a better result with a cone system than a horn system. If you count Be is being the only worthy material for prinstine audio reproduction in compression driver technology then that really narrows down the objectivity of diy in JBL. Unfortunately there is only a scant selection of cone and direct dome radiators available for previously JBL systems.

That narrows down the options even further if you want to push the envelop and this is starting to be a trend on around here.

Hence I have a pet project on the agenda to use an ATC dome mid and a Scan Revelator tweeter in place of horn and slot in the 4345. Someone has already done a lot of the hard yards on the design front so its low risk upgrade. No it won't be pure JBL and frankly I dont see how it can be unless JBL decide to re issue the design with current SOA drivers. If someone can pursuade me with a seriously good JBL solution I would be glad to hear from them.

Back to the point if on the other hand you want a loud (noise) system then there are numerous options and almost anything goes. On those terms it your own project and it can be anything you want it to be. Just dont call it a JBL monitor or say too loudly its the best system on the planet. Odds are it won't be and we have seen mixed responses where vistors impressions of members systems have ruffled some feathers. ~

Exercise care when you are invited to hear someones creation!

4313B
03-18-2007, 08:15 AM
Exercise care when you are invited to hear someones creation!It's probably best to decline the invite.

Robh3606
03-18-2007, 09:43 AM
It's probably best to decline the invite.

Now where's the fun in that:D

Rob:)

4313B
03-18-2007, 10:10 AM
Now where's the fun in that :DI think you know what I mean.

kingjames
03-18-2007, 02:35 PM
KJ i just want you to understand my rant was never intended for anyone person or in particular you. And I do love the Cards-Cubs series! I knew you were a Cubs fan. This year you are loading your team up. It will be great watching the games and LISTENING TO THEM ON MY JBLS! :D

Yes, I do like those Cubs and cards series.Now if only you could get the cards to win more often.:D

Hell, I only stay mad for 5 minutes at a time and then it's fun as usual. Too old to hold grudge's for any lenght of time.

I figured out that you were just generalizing and took no offense.

But like you said I should have labeled that thread Infinity's that way people could use their own judgement on whether or not they want to read it.

Tom Brennan
03-19-2007, 07:34 PM
nt

kingjames
03-19-2007, 07:56 PM
nt

This is dirty,realllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll lllllly dirty.:D

Tom Brennan
03-19-2007, 11:04 PM
nt:)

kingjames
03-20-2007, 05:57 AM
This is even worse.I take it you were a Sox fan when you were here? Ya, I was glad when the Sox won because they are a Chicago team but my Heart is still on the North side.:yes:

Tom Brennan
03-20-2007, 08:26 AM
KJ---Oh yeah, the whole family are Sox fans, we were West Siders from south of Madison---Lawndale and Garfield Park. When my Dad was a kid in Lawndale the precint captain would take groups of kids to the Sox games and tell them to remind their parents who was doing them a favor. My Dad says that in those days (1930s) you could smell the stockyards at Comiskey.

kingjames
03-20-2007, 08:57 AM
I remember as well those same stories as my father used to tell them.My whole family likes the sox and I guess you can call me the black sheep of this family.

In my neighborhood it was the holy rollers that use to take us to sox park for free.It was an amazing time in this city for me.

I used to live as a young adult right at 35th and halsted and White Sox park is just a mile down the road but I had to travel to the north side to go to a ball game.

I just never got used to the American League, I guess!:D

Tom Brennan
03-20-2007, 09:18 PM
35th and Halsted?! Man, you were a black sheep liking the Cubs around there.

I used to go to Jackie Sheehan's tavern at 35th and Halsted after Boilermaker union meetings. Ever get the breaded steak sandwich at La Milanese? Butt steak and home made hash browns at Schaller's Pump?

I got pulled over by an Irish copper one night pulling out of Schaller's, when he saw I lived at 4900 N Sheridan he said "What's an Irish guy like you doing living up there?" But he still gave me a pass. ;)

kingjames
03-20-2007, 09:43 PM
The steak sandwich was the shit. I still get one every week or so. Rico bene's also has a great steak sandwich as well. La Milanese is only 3 blocks from my current address.:D