250Ti LE14H-1 Replaced by LE14H-3

[varice]

Question - has anyone replaced an LE14H-1 with an LE14H-3 in a speaker system?

Are you happy with the results?

[Andyoz]

Hi,

If you havent seen this thread already, take a look. Seems to be an OK substitution.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=14154&highlight=le14h-3

In answer to your question, I m not sure if anyone on this forum has actually tried it out yet. If I had to, I would do it myself though.

[opimax]

i have a set in shipping, I will report when i test them, Not expecting much of a change :applaud::applaud:....except durability

Mark

[Storm]

Did you find any change in the woofers?

No report, taken.

;)

-Storm.


i have a set in shipping, I will report when i test them, Not expecting much of a change :applaud::applaud:....except durability

Mark

[opimax]

I have 1 thread where i reported and have also talked about it in Andy's thread, try the search feature.

Sonicaly so far seems the same maybe punchier but it also could be what we want to hear. also note that an old speaker was replaced by a new one no matter what model when making a comparism. you need 1 of each both newto compare them directly.

Before I did the switch I was told by someone that GT said he would do the switch himself now, he had no fondness for replacing foam (something close to that)

Mark

[varice]

Harmam Audio has LE14H-3 drivers (336321-001) available for $279.93 on the parts website:

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/partlist.asp?Parts=1400%20ARRAY%20BG&BrandId=JBL&MarketId=HOM

I ordered and recieved a pair back in November. Also got the longer mounting screws (804-01110-24), but they did not have the gaskets (354680-001) in stock. I plan to keep using the LE14H-1 drivers currently mounted in my 250Ti system, they should have a few more years left in them before the foam surrounds give up the ghost. Hopefully, I should be able get a couple of the proper gaskets by then.

[brutal]

A recent post elsewhere here on LHF prompts me to suggest you take those drivers out of the box and test them before you lose the warranty.

[varice]

A recent post elsewhere here on LHF prompts me to suggest you take those drivers out of the box and test them before you lose the warranty.

Yes, I did give them a lookover. One has a banged up ID plate on the back. A DC resistance test measured about 6 ohms on each, about what I would expect. Then ran a test signal to check for any other problems. They seem to be 100% functional.

[mtrump]

I replaced one LE14-1 in an older pair of 250Ti's. I lam very pleased. I want 3 more to finish out my system (I have 4 250Ti's, but JBL does not appear to be making anymore.

they are listed on the webpage, but if you order them, they bill your crdit card and you are on backorder until you ask for your money back. I had a very disappointing experience which I will not detail here.

[4313B]

JBL left the loudspeaker component business in the early 80's. Since then various drivers have been in stock only for replacement purposes. Alot of the older drivers became NLA as stock ran out and replacement runs were never made. Sometimes we have to wait up to eighteen months for our orders to be fulfilled.

It will be interesting to see if this is rectified with the closure of the eastern campuses.

[Titanium Dome]

JBL left the loudspeaker component business in the early 80's. Since then various drivers have been in stock only for replacement purposes. Alot of the older drivers became NLA as stock ran out and replacement runs were never made. Sometimes we have to wait up to eighteen months for our orders to be fulfilled.

It will be interesting to see if this is rectified with the closure of the eastern campuses.

...or rectumfied.

[Dr Tinnitus]

Just small question.

What is the diameter of the 14" woofer in the 250Ti, in metric please.

Is it mesured on the cones outer edges, or the foamrings, or the outer edge of the mounting frames widest part?


Dr Tinnitus

[Hoerninger]

...or rectumfied.
Oh sh.. ! ;)

[rdgrimes]

Just small question.

What is the diameter of the 14" woofer in the 250Ti, in metric please.

Is it mesured on the cones outer edges, or the foamrings, or the outer edge of the mounting frames widest part?


Dr Tinnitus

My 14H-1 is 35.5cm from corner to corner, measured across the screw holes. Inside the flange, (outer edge of the gasket), is 30.5cm.

[BMWCCA]

JBL calls it a 14" 360mm driver, FWIW.

(Though 14" = 355.6 mm)

[Dr Tinnitus]

Ok, according to the two latest replies my 14" is the same. I just started to wonder, because if you measure the actual cone diameter with foam ring, it's not more than a 12" woofer. But if you measure across the frames edges on the widest part, is 14".

I don't really like that kind of tricky way to boost a woofers size. You can if you like then have a 4" cone with a 3" wide mounting frame, and call i a 10" speaker....


Dr Tinnitus

[varice]

Please forgive me for digging up my very old topic :o:.

The foam surrounds on the second set of LE14H-1 drivers installed in my 250Ti speakers have now started to fail. So the new LE14H-3 drivers I purchased years ago for replacement are out of storage and being prepared for installation. I was never successful in getting the proper gaskets (354680-001) though. I e-mailed another inquiry today to [email protected], but I think that will probably be another wasted effort. If anyone has them, or knows of an alternative source, or any advice on sealing that gap, please let me know!

[BMWCCA]

I e-mailed another inquiry today to [email protected], but I think that will probably be another wasted effort. If anyone has them, or knows of an alternative source, or any advice on sealing that gap, please let me know!
You might want to check that spelling!! :banghead:

According to the web site: [email protected]

Why not just pick up the phone? 1-800-336-4525

[varice]

You might want to check that spelling!! :banghead:

According to the web site: [email protected]

Why not just pick up the phone? 1-800-336-4525

My spelling is just fine. I've used that e-mail address from the Harmon Online Store successfully several times before, and have already recieved an automated confirmation about my most recent inquiry tonight.

Thanks for the phone number and another e-mail address though...

[varice]

I was just checking my LE14H-3 drivers and noticed that there seems to be a groove around the inside surface of the mounting flange similar to where an O-ring is used with the LE14H-1 as a seal. I wonder if the original 250Ti O-ring could be used with the -3. When I replaced the original -1s many years ago though, I noticed the original O-rings were deformed. Anyway, an O-ring fabricated from scratch would be easier to acquire than the -3 gaskets which seem to be no longer available…

[Don C]

My spelling is just fine. I've used that e-mail address from the Harmon Online Store successfully several times before, and have already recieved an automated confirmation about my most recent inquiry tonight.

Thanks for the phone number and another e-mail address though...
It's Harman, not Harmon.

[rdgrimes]

Seems like a sheet of bulk cork gasket material, available at most auto stores, could be easily used to make a serviceable gasket.

[varice]

It's Harman, not Harmon.
:banghead: Oh good grief, I did spell it wrong!

Sorry guys. I looked at it and would have sworn that it was spelled right. Good thing that it is correct in my e-mail address book.

[hjames]

Harmin' Kittens ... them HK folks get no respect on any forum (but you'd think it'd be right here, at least!)


:banghead: Oh good grief, I did spell it wrong!

Sorry guys. I looked at it and would have sworn that it was spelled right. Good thing that it is correct in my e-mail address book.

[varice]

Harmin' Kittens ... them HK folks get no respect on any forum (but you'd think it'd be right here, at least!)
Harmin' Kittens

On another forum a member uses the alias KarmanHardon!:eek:

An internet search (if you dare) on Karman Hardon gives many intentional and unintentional uses of the name…

[JeffW]

I bought a pair of LE14H-3 off Harman a few years back, they didn't come with any gaskets (or packing, but that's another story).

[varice]

I bought a pair of LE14H-3 off Harman a few years back, they didn't come with any gaskets (or packing, but that's another story).
I was very unhappy with the way my LE14H-3s were not packed well for shipment…

They obviously should have been double boxed… Thank goodness there was not any major damage…

I’m curious though, how are you using your -3s?

[JeffW]

I’m curious though, how are you using your -3s?

I'm not. I bought them as replacements for the LE14H-1 in a pair of 250Ti, but never got around to putting them in there before retiring the speakers. I did put them in decent boxes before they went to storage, though.

[varice]

I got some good news today! Two proper gaskets are scheduled by UPS for delivery this Friday.:D What a pleasant surprise that Harman actually had them in stock.

It sure will be nice to get my 250Ti system back to full song. I hope that installing the LE14H-3 drivers will be the last major maintenance that is ever necessary for the drivers and provide many more years of classic JBL system listening bliss. I think that the -3s will also make a better visual match in the 250Ti. The thicker mounting flange of the -3 along with the outward spacing by the gasket will more closely match the thick flange of the lower mid-range 108H driver than the thinner LE14H-1…

[marky]

Hi Guys!

I changed my 250Ti original LE14H1 woofers cone after 10 years, with LE14H3 cone kits.
Because I just can this order from JBL now in this country (Hungary).
Last year my friend even got original H1 cone kit...

So, the H3 cone not interchangable with the H1!
Diameter is OK, but H3's on bobbin (perforated fiberglass) the voice coil appr. 1/4 inc further away from the neck.
The H1's bobbin kapton, not perforated.
Therefore the H3 cone in the original H1 woofer basket not located in the right place.
It is falls outside the optimal magnetic fields in the air gap.
The result of a 250Ti sound become thin and powerless, like a amplifier's power is reduced half.

I think the solution, that the new H3 rubber frame should only be used at the renovations...
I tried this and with the new rubber frame become very cool the result, the sound is powerful, precise, authentic!:applaud:
Or whole woofer replace the new type. :)

(I apologize the poor English for knowledge)

[varice]

Please excuse me for the necromancy of my old topic…

But, there is an internet meme that if you don’t post a picture of your supposed exploits, then how can anyone believe that it actually happened? So, please see the attached glamour shot pic (or is it just audiophile porno?) of my right channel 250Ti with the -3 driver installed, seductively lit by the early morning sunlight coming through my window…

Unfortunately, the “proper” JBL gaskets I was expecting for the -3 driver turned out to be nothing more than stupid thin cardboard type paper (WTF?). I just reused the original rubber -1 O-rings instead…

But, more concerning to me was that the -3 driver seemed to produce noticeably less bass output than the original -1 driver. So I tried some bass PEQ to try to compensate, but that seemed to only stress the drivers by pushing them past their natural response. I did NOT want to do that. I finally decided that it would probably be better to just add a powered subwoofer to shore up the sub low end… That has turned out to be real challenge though, trying to get it to blend in and work in concert with the 250Ti -3 driver. But I am making progress, and have been enjoying the 250Ti aural bliss in the meantime…

Has anyone else replaced -1 with -3 drivers? If so, what was your experience?

76974

[speakerdave]

First, I would double check to be certain they are not connected out of phase.

[DavidF]

"....But, more concerning to me was that the -3 driver seemed to produce noticeably less bass output than the original -1 driver. So I tried some bass PEQ to try to compensate, but that seemed to only stress the drivers by pushing them past their natural response. I did NOT want to do that. I finally decided that it would probably be better to just add a powered subwoofer to shore up the sub low end… That has turned out to be real challenge though, trying to get it to blend in and work in concert with the 250Ti -3 driver. But I am making progress, and have been enjoying the 250Ti aural bliss in the meantime…
In fact
Has anyone else replaced -1 with -3 drivers? If so, what was your experience?



I have swapped the -1 and -3 woofers frequently, same enclosure, same tuning, same xover. There should be no difference in low end output. It should be difficult to discern any difference in the woofer types, in fact, in the way you are using them. Two things to check that can really diminish bass output are air leaks in the enclosure and out-of-phase woofers, as mentioned above.

[Odd]

LE14H-1 is negative. LE14H-3 is positive. Right ?

[DavidF]

LE14H-1 is negative. LE14H-3 is positive. Right ?

Both sets of drivers I had were the same as to polarity.

[hlaari]

JBL Le14H-3 positive on red + moves cone in towards magnet
JBL Le14H-1 positive on black - gives forward cone motion

so forward cone motion for both woofers is black - terminal
this info are in the (transducer information)

[varice]

First, I would double check to be certain they are not connected out of phase.OH GOOD F*CKING GRIEF!!!! I absolutely did NOT connect the -3 drivers out of phase… I’m not that stupid… and it would have obviously produced much less bass response than what I think that I perceive.

There are two more likely possibilities (probably a combination of both):

1. Using the original old O-rings did not provide a good enough seal.
2. The -1 and -3 drivers are in fact NOT exactly the same acoustically.

About #2: IIRC, The specs for the -3 indicate slightly less output than the -1. The rubber surround of the -3, although it is more durable than the -1 (YEAH!) is apparently a bit stiffer, which may cause a bit less cone excursion, resulting in less acoustic output. Also, the -3 cone assembly is a bit more forward in the driver assembly than the -1, by maybe about ¼ inch, which would slightly increase the total volume of the woofer enclosure. Would that be enough to change the very low end response of my 250Ti loudspeakers?

In any case, the roll off of the very low end of the ported 250Ti’s, IMO has always made them sound a bit too weak in the very low bass frequency range. Apparently, JBL also realized this and offered a subwoofer system to compensate. I have used a PEQ specifically made for bass equalization to try to augment the deep bass response, but that PEQ is designed specifically for sealed acoustic suspension systems (not ported systems). The best answer therefore was to add a subwoofer…

[rdgrimes]

About #2: IIRC, The specs for the -3 indicate slightly less output than the -1. The rubber surround of the -3, although it is more durable than the -1 (YEAH!) is apparently a bit stiffer, which may cause a bit less cone excursion, resulting in less acoustic output.

That would be a case where the application of many WATTS could be of some use. ;)

[edgewound]

OH GOOD F*CKING GRIEF!!!! I absolutely did NOT connect the -3 drivers out of phase… I’m not that stupid… and it would have obviously produced much less bass response than what I think that I perceive.

There are two more likely possibilities (probably a combination of both):

1. Using the original old O-rings did not provide a good enough seal.
2. The -1 and -3 drivers are in fact NOT exactly the same acoustically.

About #2: IIRC, The specs for the -3 indicate slightly less output than the -1. The rubber surround of the -3, although it is more durable than the -1 (YEAH!) is apparently a bit stiffer, which may cause a bit less cone excursion, resulting in less acoustic output. Also, the -3 cone assembly is a bit more forward in the driver assembly than the -1, by maybe about ¼ inch, which would slightly increase the total volume of the woofer enclosure. Would that be enough to change the very low end response of my 250Ti loudspeakers?

In any case, the roll off of the very low end of the ported 250Ti’s, IMO has always made them sound a bit too weak in the very low bass frequency range. Apparently, JBL also realized this and offered a subwoofer system to compensate. I have used a PEQ specifically made for bass equalization to try to augment the deep bass response, but that PEQ is designed specifically for sealed acoustic suspension systems (not ported systems). The best answer therefore was to add a subwoofer…

First of all, SpeakerDave is a very well respected, longtime member of this forum. He's just trying to help, as most here do, so your outbursts are quite a bit out of line.

Secondly, there is a simple remedy for your lack of bass output. The LE14H-3 is reported to have a bit more sensitivity due to the lighter moving mass of ~8 grams.

So...it's unusual for yours to have less output when Greg Timbers says it will be slight louder...by about 1-2dB.

So....that leaves one last variable if the driver is in new condition. It needs time to break-in. Break-in time requires about 40-50 hours of listening at moderate to loudish volume levels to exercise the suspension to get it limber enough to get to its Fs. Be patient, Grashoppah.

[jblnut]

LOL...you're gonna make friends with the neighbors and rattle anything loose that's not tied down before you 'stress' that LE14-H3 any.

I have two sets of LE14-H1's for my 250's and one does produce less output than the other. I haven't stressed out much about it and I actually have the lower-output set in my system now.

I am not sure what you're hearing (or what you are expecting) but lots of things can cause the 250 to seem like it doesn't have a lot of bass. Room nodes and placement are a big one here, as is the amp you are using. And they are so flat and accurate down there that you really have to be listening to something well recorded before you hear what's possible. Having a lot of power helps too :-). They roll off fast below 30hz though and I'd recommend a sub for the lowest of the lows. It took me 10 years to finally see the light there, but I did get the message at long last.

Yelling at well respected members who have been here for over a decade doesn't help, so calm down and listen to what people are telling you...

jblnut

[brutal]

OH GOOD F*CKING GRIEF!!!! I absolutely did NOT connect the -3 drivers out of phase… I’m not that stupid… and it would have obviously produced much less bass response than what I think that I perceive.

There are two more likely possibilities (probably a combination of both):

1. Using the original old O-rings did not provide a good enough seal.
2. The -1 and -3 drivers are in fact NOT exactly the same acoustically.

About #2: IIRC, The specs for the -3 indicate slightly less output than the -1. The rubber surround of the -3, although it is more durable than the -1 (YEAH!) is apparently a bit stiffer, which may cause a bit less cone excursion, resulting in less acoustic output. Also, the -3 cone assembly is a bit more forward in the driver assembly than the -1, by maybe about ¼ inch, which would slightly increase the total volume of the woofer enclosure. Would that be enough to change the very low end response of my 250Ti loudspeakers?

In any case, the roll off of the very low end of the ported 250Ti’s, IMO has always made them sound a bit too weak in the very low bass frequency range. Apparently, JBL also realized this and offered a subwoofer system to compensate. I have used a PEQ specifically made for bass equalization to try to augment the deep bass response, but that PEQ is designed specifically for sealed acoustic suspension systems (not ported systems). The best answer therefore was to add a subwoofer…

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/0b/0b8ed491b24998d047cc9c9f22df0c97c2bdd9f75b5f634840 2b790c1c216728.jpg

[varice]

...First of all, SpeakerDave is a very well respected, longtime member of this forum. He's just trying to help, as most here do, so your outbursts are quite a bit out of line...
In my post on 20MAY2017, I did NOT ask for any “help”, did I? The so called “help” offered was unsolicited, and in my opinion, insulting because it was based on the incorrect assumption that I am ignorant about how to connect drivers in proper phase, and would not be able to realize the mistake before foolishly posting here to complain… In my opinion, people that offer this kind of unsolicited "help" have lost a lot of respect that I would have for them....

[varice]

...LOL...you're gonna make friends with the neighbors and rattle anything loose that's not tied down before you 'stress' that LE14-H3 any...
Sorry if I wasn't clear... The stress I mentioned about avoiding was only trying to push the -3 drivers to produce output frequencies BELOW the natural roll off of the drivers in the 250Ti enclosure. It is common knowledge that trying to do this in ported speaker systems can damage the drivers, do you disagree?

As far as rattling things, my subwoofer rattles things all too well, and even makes things not nailed down dance around!:bouncy:



...They roll off fast below 30hz though and I'd recommend a sub for the lowest of the lows. It took me 10 years to finally see the light there, but I did get the message at long last...
This was what I was referring to, and the reason that I mentioned getting a powered subwoofer...



...Yelling at well respected members who have been here for over a decade doesn't help, so calm down and listen to what people are telling you...
Please see my previous post about this.

I'm willing to make a deal... If posters don't insult my intelligence, I won't be insulted... How about that?

[rdgrimes]

I'm willing to make a deal... If posters don't insult my intelligence, I won't be insulted... How about that?

Having just read this exchange, I feel compelled to point out that the only person being "insulting" here is you.

[varice]

Having just read this exchange, I feel compelled to point out that the only person being "insulting" here is you.
So, please point out where I have insulted anyone posting here.

[varice]

Geez, I make a post to my old topic about replacing the -1 driver in my 250Ti systems with -3 drivers along with a sexy glamorous pic, and how I am enjoying them except for a well-known lack of very low bass and my efforts to correct that. But, forum members here so far have not shown any love for a fellow JBL owner expressing his bliss while still pursuing audio perfection…

Was my 20MAY2017 post just a waste of my time?

[DavidF]

In my post on 20MAY2017, I did NOT ask for any “help”, did I? The so called “help” offered was unsolicited, and in my opinion, insulting because it was based on the incorrect assumption that I am ignorant about how to connect drivers in proper phase, and would not be able to realize the mistake before foolishly posting here to complain… In my opinion, people that offer this kind of unsolicited "help" have lost a lot of respect that I would have for them....


OH GOOD F**KING GRIEF, I would have thought just a comment like, "I am good there...thanks", or no comment at all would be respectful. Instead we have to deem what you think you know about all things audio before offering any response? Sorry I responded at all.

[Mr. Widget]

Deep breath time. Let's all try to remember this is just audio. :)


Widget

[varice]

OH GOOD F**KING GRIEF, I would have thought just a comment like, "I am good there...thanks", or no comment at all would be respectful. Instead we have to deem what you think you know about all things audio before offering any response? Sorry I responded at all.
Again, I did NOT ask for any “response”, did I? Any unsolicited “help” offered will run the risk of false assumptions that may insult… just as it did in this case… as you suggest, a no comment would have been more respectful... don't you think?

[edgewound]

Has anyone else replaced -1 with -3 drivers? If so, what was your experience?


From the study of English punctuation in school, I learned that ending a sentence with a question mark is an invitation to receive responses.

You asked, and therefore, received...and then lashed out.

You get what you give.

[brutal]

Again, I did NOT ask for any “response”, did I? Any unsolicited “help” offered will run the risk of false assumptions that may insult… just as it did in this case… as you suggest, a no comment would have been more respectful... don't you think?

Haha. You posted on a public internet forum and ended a statement with a "?".

[varice]

Sorry for the late reply. We had some very severe weather here Sunday evening. My power went out about 6PM and was not restored until 11:30AM today. The NWS estimated that there was a straight line wind event of 80 to 95 MPH through Desoto Parish, LA. I live just a few miles south of the Desoto Parish border. It caused the death of one man when he was hit by a falling tree and of course knocked out a lot of power lines. I’m so thankful that severe gust did not happen here at my house. It could easily have knocked down one or two big oak trees in my yard onto my house. I guess being without power for about forty hours is a small price to pay for dodging that bullet.

All that being said, it reminded me that there are much higher priorities in life than engaging in silly arguments on internet forums. Life is already too short for that kind of nonsense.

[Mr. Widget]

All that being said, it reminded me that there are much higher priorities in life than engaging in silly arguments on internet forums. Life is already too short for that kind of nonsense.Thank you for this... you are so right. Funny how easy it is for us to lose perspective. I think it is a human condition as it seems to afflict most all of us.

Glad to hear you and your speakers are still safe.


Widget

[varice]

...The LE14H-3 is reported to have a bit more sensitivity due to the lighter moving mass of ~8 grams.

So...it's unusual for yours to have less output when Greg Timbers says it will be slight louder...by about 1-2dB...
When I was thinking of replacing my second set of -1s with the -3s several years ago, I could have sworn that I found information that indicated just the opposite. But that is all moot at this point. I actually replaced the -1s three or four years ago, and decided to get a subwoofer about two years ago, along with modifying the subwoofer filter circuitry of an electronic crossover to get the subwoofer to blend better with my 250Ti system (I’ve made significant progress in this regard). It appears that maybe I should have mentioned all of this in my 20MAY2017 post, as I was way past the point of needing help with the -3 replacement...

[varice]

Thank you for this... you are so right. Funny how easy it is for us to lose perspective. I think it is a human condition as it seems to afflict most all of us.

Glad to hear you and your speakers are still safe.


Widget
Thanks, Mr. Widget. I appreciate that very much.