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SEAWOLF97
03-08-2007, 04:06 PM
was looking to replace my Hafler dh-101 pre amp with something better. ended up trading a couple of TT's for a yammy C-4. I know very little about it and cant find much on the web. Anybody have one of these ? opinions ? access to manuals ? etc. ?

sure is heavy. powers up, needs lights , will connect tomorrow.

grumpy
03-08-2007, 04:37 PM
http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=146168&postcount=1

sourceoneaudio
03-08-2007, 04:41 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/YAMAHA-C-4-Stereo-Preamplifier-Service-Manual_W0QQitemZ5873203013QQcategoryZ50594QQrdZ1QQ ssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Yamaha Natural Sound control amp (pre amp) C-4

The C-4 features are ideal for the vinyl lovers. You can hook up 3 turntables to this at one time. On the face of the pre amp there is a phono input selector switch which allows you to adjust the cartridge load on phono 1 and 2. Phono 3 input is designated just for a moving coil cartridge. You can also connect 2 different amps thru the pre out connections on the back. With the 2 inputs for tape, you can have a reel to reel and a cassette deck! Connections on the back are for phono 1, 2 & 3, tuner, aux, tape 1 & 2, pre out 1 & 2 and voltage selector.

Made in 1979-82, this unit sold new for $570.


http://cgi.ebay.com/Yamaha-NS-series-C-4-PreAmp-M-60-amp-T-700-Tuner-Set_W0QQitemZ300086877295QQcategoryZ14974QQssPageN ameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Hope this helps, J/S-S1A



NO AFIL:

SEAWOLF97
03-08-2007, 05:05 PM
:( thanx grumpy and SA. it works fine, dont need schematics. need the owners manual, tho slowly starting to figure it out.

ran a portable CD in and plugged in phones....sounds pretty good, had to re-align some knobs, opened it up, lights are going to be hard to get to, tho not really so important. there are only 3 . maybe a later proj.

it seems to have a lot of power o/p for a pre ? ran the phones up pretty loud. seems quality construction. can't be much worse than the basic Hafler.

It does have bass and treble "turnover points", which I havnt had b4. and runs 3 tt's, too bad I don't use my Dual DD 701 anymore. :(

I found specs...wish my German was better..


Yamaha C-4 Vorverstärker
Baujahre: 1979-1981
Leistungsaufnahme: 50 Watt
Abmessungen: 43,5x11,6x37,6cm
Gewicht: 8,7 Kg
Neupreis ca.: 1200,- DM
Anzahl der Eingänge: 2x Phono MM 1x Phono MC 2x Tape Tuner, Aux
Anzahl der Ausgänge: 2x Pre-Out 2x Rec-Out 1x Kopfhörer
Eingang (Empfindlichkeit/Impedanz) Phono MM 2,5 mV/100 Ohm/33 KOhm/47 KOhm/68 KOhm/100 KOhm Tape, Tuner, Aux 150mV/47 KOhm
Ausgang (Pegel/Impedanz) Pre-Out 2V/600 Ohm Rec-Out 150mV/180 Ohm
Bass: ± 10dB
Höhen: ± 10dB
Direct/Line-Straight: Tone-Bypass
Brummspannungsabstand (kurzgeschlossen): 106 dB
Stereokanaltrennung: 85 dB
Low- und High-Filter Record-Selector getrennter Lautstärkeregler für den Kopfhörerausgang Mono/Stereo/Stereo verkehrt schaltbar Pre-Outs getrennt abschaltbar Kapazität und Impedanz der Phono-MM Eingänge anpassbar.

SEAWOLF97
03-08-2007, 07:47 PM
of course, I couldnt find the manual anywhere, until I went to Yam Japan site and there it is. Why dont they use the USA area ? 2EZ , I guess....

SEAWOLF97
03-09-2007, 04:21 PM
got the C-4 in today. Of course while the back o' da rack was open, much other housekeeping to do.
seems to have been worth it. The Yammy sound is a little warmer than the Haf and maybe more detail ?? (maybe just a "wishin for..so it be" type deal) ?? A little more foreward ?

darned thing is 2X the real estate size of the old Haf...lots of rearranging...:bouncy:

the art of the deal ....two $5 turntables to a guy who needed them, but didn't need a pre.

coherent_guy
03-09-2007, 06:39 PM
Here is a computer generated translation, far better than I could do but not perfect. Somewhat useful and worth a chuckle. Done by:

http://babelfish.altavista.com/

Yamaha C-4 preamplifier of years of construction: 1979-1981 capacity: 50 Watts of dimensions: 43,5x11,6x37,6cm weight: 8.7 kg ex-factory price approx.: 1200, - DM number of entrances: 2x Phono mm 1x Phono MC 2x Tape tuner, Aux number of exits: 2x Pre Out 2x Rec Out 1x headphone entrance (sensitivity/impedance) Phono mm of 2.5 mV/100 Ohm/33 KOhm/47 KOhm/68 KOhm/100 KOhm Tape, tuner, Aux 150mV/47 KOhm exit (level/impedance) Pre Out 2V/600 ohm of Rec Out 150mV/180 ohm bass: ± 10dB heights: ± 10dB Direct/Line Straight: Clay/tone bypass ripple voltage distance (short circuit): 106 railways Stereokanaltrennung: 85 railways Low and High filter record Selector of separate volume controls for the headphone exit Mono/Stereo/Stereo adjustably Pre Outs operates separately disconnectible capacity and impedance of the Phono mm of entrances adaptable.

This may create more questions than it answers :blink:

SEAWOLF97
03-09-2007, 06:55 PM
Clay/tone bypass ripple voltage distance

this is one parameter that I always worry about. :o:

sourceoneaudio
03-09-2007, 07:49 PM
Look like a nice clean piece of gear. Yamaha has always built some of the best quality gear. In the 70's and 80's some of their separates were the best in build quality and sound quality. The new RX-V and RX-Z series receivers of today are most definitely some of the best signal processors ava. The Z-9 receiver retails for $4500.00 as the flag ship, and that it is. As you can tell I'm a little partial to Yamaha. Love the stuff. Good luck with that piece.

Jeff
J/S-S1A :D

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=200001&CTID=5000300

coherent_guy
03-09-2007, 08:19 PM
this is one parameter that I always worry about. :o:

Yup. . . hey, are your entrances adaptable? :o:

Nice amp of pre Stereokanaltrennung. . . Computers haven't replaced us yet!

. . . no really, and certainly not of the "less is more" philosophy common today. All quiet on the potentiometer front? Three phono inputs and no TT? You need a good (?) BSR with an Empire cartridge, or two!!

SEAWOLF97
03-09-2007, 08:40 PM
The Z-9 receiver retails for $4500.00 as the flag ship, and that it is. Jeff
J/S-S1A :D

I'd trade 3 TTs for THAT !!! WOW :bouncy:


. All quiet on the potentiometer front? Three phono inputs and no TT? You need a good (?) BSR with an Empire cartridge, or two!!


Pots are good, sound is excellent, 3 lites are out. opened the case, the circuit boards are ON TOP. It looks like you get to things from the BOTTOM. weird !! wonder how thats gonna play with air flow/heat dissapation ?

anyway,,,, mates in pretty well with my BGW 250d

BSR ? you must be physic ? one of the tt's I traded was a BSR Quanta - with ADC cart. really nice for a belt drive , had strobe and adjustable speed, was rock solid on 33.3 according to strobe. The other was a Technics SL-5 , clamshell with radial arm, you could skip tracks and position arms with remote switches. Nice , too.

coherent_guy
03-09-2007, 09:26 PM
OOOhhhh, a Technics Close-and-Play! I have one of those from my yout'. Still plays, you can get a moving coil P-Mount cartridge from Needle Doctor!!

What do you mean the BSR was nice for a belt drive TT? Don't you know belt drive is the only acceptable manner of drive in the High End? ALL direct drive is dreck! I'm stone serious! My bud had a Dual 701 DD with Shure V15 III, we thought it was mighty fine, (on L65's) but what did we know?!?!? ;)

I'll betcha a bottom panel comes off your Yamaha. The upside down circuit board promotes a constant thermal environment once it warms up (the board bakes at the same temperature all over). Heat should not be a problem for a preamp unless it runs in class A with larger transistors and no heat sinks.

They don't build 'em like that Yamaha anymore. . . well, yeah they do, but they cost as much as your first car. (I found the paper work from my dad's '65 Pontiac Catalina, four door, 389CI V8, $3,400) (yeah 1965 $, so what!!)

Then again there is my Krell pre whose voltage regulators run in class A, TO3's on small heat sinks and are to hot to touch. No power switch on that puppy, runs like that all the time.......... had it for years, no problem :blink:

SEAWOLF97
03-09-2007, 09:37 PM
Don't you know belt drive is the only acceptable manner of drive in the High End? ALL direct drive is dreck!

They don't build 'em like that Yamaha anymore. . . well, yeah they do, but they cost as much as your first car. (I found the paper work from my dad's '65 Pontiac Catalina, four door, 389CI V8, $3,400) (yeah 1965 $, so what!!)

well, in that case , I have 3 or 4 AR Xa/b's that I need to sell, and 4 or 5 Duals. ALL belts drives.


$21,718.63 in the year 2006 has the same "purchase power" as $3400 in the year 1965.

coherent_guy
03-09-2007, 09:54 PM
$21,718.63 in the year 2006 has the same "purchase power" as $3400 in the year 1965.

Well, then that $60K price tag for those new JBL's is not so bad after all!!

I told him he should of bought the GTO anyway. . .

majick47
03-10-2007, 12:12 PM
You will be very happy with the C4. I have a couple of the older Yamaha preamps (CX800 & CX2000) and they sound very nice, solid construction, reliable and well built with quality parts. The Yamaha amps from the 80s are also an excellent match M2, M4, M80, M85, MX1000 etc. Also the pro amps PC2002 etc.

SEAWOLF97
03-10-2007, 03:40 PM
You will be very happy with the C4. I have a couple of the older Yamaha preamps (CX800 & CX2000) and they sound very nice, solid construction, reliable and well built with quality parts.

Got a chance to really listen to it today and start dialing it in. I never knew that the pre amp makes that much difference. The same system with only the pre change sounds much different. Turned off the EQ and only using Yammy tone control.

A little more "in your face" and warmer than the Hafler. Very heavy construction. Funny, as I've bought a fair amount of used Yamaha and every piece has been broken. Had a rather neg opinion of the comapany. Their small bookshelf speakers have terrible drivers and construction, bad as Boston.

I guess even an old dog can learn "new tricks" ?

coherent_guy
03-11-2007, 07:13 AM
Got a chance to really listen to it today and start dialing it in. I never knew that the pre amp makes that much difference. The same system with only the pre change sounds much different. Turned off the EQ and only using Yammy tone control.

A little more "in your face" and warmer than the Hafler. Very heavy construction. Funny, as I've bought a fair amount of used Yamaha and every piece has been broken. Had a rather neg opinion of the comapany. Their small bookshelf speakers have terrible drivers and construction, bad as Boston.

I guess even an old dog can learn "new tricks" ?

Really, all broken? Well, sometimes I feel it's the parts that are used that is the culprit, not the circuitry. Like in a Phase Linear 400's, the output transistors of the day were not up to the stresses they were said to be able to take. Recently I've seen some PC mother boards go bad due to bad electrolytic caps, so who do we blame, the part or the user of the part?

I bet the Yamaha is all discrete circuitry while the Hafler uses op-amps. I've read that some high-end reviewers feel that preamps have been some of the most colored sounding (not neutral and thus bad) of all electronics. My experience tends to agree with that, a solid state Marantz pre I had was weird sounding, and an SAE pre was completely different sounding, and also cold and metallic and noisy, an Adcom unit was the first decent one I ever had, and two GAS units were different yet again. The Marantz had discrete transistors, the SAE and Adcom used op-amps, though different ones, with the Adcom running in class A. The GAS were all discrete parts, one with video transistors, the other running hot in class A, like a mini power amp.

There is a famous Yamaha speaker, I think called the NS 1000 or something like that, that is a legendary speaker in the pro world, from the 70's I believe. Parts for it can still be found at some speaker repair places.

Your experiences seems to run counter to the usual reputation of Yamaha. I hope your preamp "lives" a long time for you. Have you been able to bring your other Yamaha finds back to life?

SEAWOLF97
03-11-2007, 08:57 AM
There is a famous Yamaha speaker, I think called the NS 1000 or something like that, that is a legendary speaker in the pro world, from the 70's I believe. Parts for it can still be found at some speaker repair places.

Your experiences seems to run counter to the usual reputation of Yamaha. I hope your preamp "lives" a long time for you. Have you been able to bring your other Yamaha finds back to life?

the NS1000 is famous , as I have read , not because its so good , but because its used as a "lowest common denominator". Representative of every mans speaker. Like in the old days of checking the final mix on a car speaker.

I'm sure the replies will start pouring in, IF I'm wrong about this.


Other Yam finds ?? Honestly I dont buy Yamaha anymore, this came to me in a trade, but I do like the C-4 and hope it lasts. I buy salvage and have SO MUCH stuff, that if something doesn't work correctly...it goes in THAT pile (room) and someday, maybe, I'll get done with the pile that does work and then get to the ones that don't.

brutal
03-21-2007, 09:19 PM
I've been lurking here on and off for a few years, lusting over everyone's 250's, so I guess it's about time I post something worthwhile.

I just retired a C-4 I bought new in 1982 around the same time I bought my (since reconed) L112's. After many years of faithful service in my main, and then, 2-channel setup, the selector, balance and volume pots got so scratchy and worn out, it had to go. I also recently scored a set of working, original owner, L56's on CL for $40 (wohoo!) that deserved better treatment than the C-4 was giving the crappy blose 301's (old style) in my home office. Yea, don't laugh, someone gave them to me.

The frequency turnover controls are for the pre-amp's parametric equalization. The C-4 is a great, vintage mid-end Yamaha pre-amp. Good, clean specs. I'm sorry to see mine go, but it's not worth repairing. Just like our beloved vintage JBL's, I hold onto vintage Yamaha gear dearly and replaced the C-4 with a 10 year old Yami receiver (oldest I could find with a remote.) I still run it through the matching M-4 amp (120w/ch), and also route my Yamaha surround receiver main fronts through an old M-80 (250w/ch class a/b) amp that feeds the L112's. For mid range gear, it's tough to beat.

http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/av/english/SepA/C-4.pdf

jomina
04-21-2007, 04:25 AM
the NS1000 is famous , as I have read , not because its so good , but because its used as a "lowest common denominator".
I'm sure the replies will start pouring in, IF I'm wrong about this.

You're wrong :-) The speaker you're thinking of is the NS-10, although this wasn't exactly a lowest common denominator speaker, either (the auratone 5c might qualify for that dubious accolade).
The NS-1000 series is a classic that more than holds its own with modern speakers. Here is my pair (NS-1000X)

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/227/444422913_81f9d273dc.jpg

Quad-like transparency with JBL punch.
The only modern speakers that have the same kind of build quality are the big JBL studio speakers GT designs for Japan.

GordonW
04-23-2007, 07:48 AM
C4? I'd expect it to have "explosive" dynamics. :D :D :blah::blah:

Regards,
Gordon.

SEAWOLF97
04-23-2007, 09:53 AM
C4? I'd expect it to have "explosive" dynamics. :D :D :blah::blah:

Regards,
Gordon.

Its metal , not plastiqúe. :)

brutal
04-26-2007, 07:36 PM
It's 24MB as I cranked up the res on the schematic page. Do you have an FTP site I can put it somewhere or will your e-mail accept such a large file?

You have a great 2-channel pre-amp there. I almost cried when the phono section on mine went out. Without the cartridge load and impedance matching, my AV amp just doesn't sound the same. I'm still looking to replace it.

SEAWOLF97
04-26-2007, 09:28 PM
It's 24MB as I cranked up the res on the schematic page. Do you have an FTP site I can put it somewhere or will your e-mail accept such a large file?

You have a great 2-channel pre-amp there. I almost cried when the phono section on mine went out. Without the cartridge load and impedance matching, my AV amp just doesn't sound the same. I'm still looking to replace it.

WOW , thanx very much. I dont know where I can get that much space, no FTP site. Can I FTP directly from you ? Email wont hold it.

The replacement for the c-4 fell thru and I was going to put the Yam for sale. I was pissed when the Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista seller broke his commitment and sold it out from under me. :(

brutal
04-27-2007, 11:50 AM
You let me know if you ever want to sell that C-4. I've got a line on a replacement, but can always use another/spare. I'm really just using it for the phono section as it's:

1. Adjustable to match the cartridge.
2. My AV rcvr doesn't rec-out the phono so I can't loop in my EQ and DBX-3BX with it.

SEAWOLF97
04-27-2007, 12:00 PM
You let me know if you ever want to sell that C-4. I've got a line on a replacement, but can always use another/spare. I'm really just using it for the phono section as it's:

1. Adjustable to match the cartridge.
2. My AV rcvr doesn't rec-out the phono so I can't loop in my EQ and DBX-3BX with it.

playing around with it, I found that it will do 2 pre outs simultaneously. Haven't had it long. All lights are out, But heck, I know when its ON, don't need a light, I know when its MUTED , don't need a light.

I run the EQ thru the SRS and on the tape loop.