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jim campbell
03-07-2007, 12:59 PM
im interested in hearing any input for short term and long range power for my wilsons.i currently own an audio research sp6a pre and a bryston 4b.there is a krell fpb 300 here but i have been advised by one of the guys to wait for a 600.there is ,i read that a potential problem with direct coupled pre's and krells exists that caused more than a few to blow up.i cannot buy a new amp and a new pre at once. there is a pair of pass labs 600 mono blocs out there that look interesting.any ideas............................the price range is around 4 5 k us used

sourceoneaudio
03-07-2007, 01:15 PM
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?ampstran&1174184674

NO AFIL:

I'm a huge Nelson Pass fan starting from the Nakamichi era. If this is what you looking for I think they would do everything you want and more. I also believe the new Pass Labs gear is some of the best equipment made to date. If I could afford it I would. I'm still using Nakamichi, and Adcom, and I'm loving the sound and the design quality everyday. Good luck with your decision. I believe this is a step towards never needing to make another choice ever!

P.S. Nelson went from Nakamichi to Adcom so I stayed with the builder from an engineering standpoint. (Excellent)
Running One, Nakamichi PA7-AII in my two channel room.
Running Three, Adcom GFA-5802's in the Home Theater Room.



J/S-S1A :D

grumpy
03-07-2007, 01:49 PM
Funny how amps are such a personal thing. Might the store where you bought the
Wilsons from have thoughts/recommendations (even if not from them... thinking they've
likely made their profit and probably have had any number of likely candidates hooked
up)?

...or since you now own one of David W's children, that the mfg -might- be willing to
offer some insight (e.g., what they ran them with for development?)

Only Wilson's I've spent any time listening to were -much- smaller...
in fact they were Tiny :D ... AR/tube powered and made some very pleasant noise.

-grumpy

scott fitlin
03-07-2007, 01:58 PM
Funny how amps are such a personal thing. Might the store where you bought the
Wilsons from have thoughts/recommendations (even if not from them... thinking they've
likely made their profit and probably have had any number of likely candidates hooked
up)?

...or since you now own one of David W's children, that the mfg -might- be willing to
offer some insight (e.g., what they ran them with for development?)



-grumpyThose are good suggestions. Both the dealer and the manufacturer will have very good working knowledge of what amps, and how much power, makes these speakers sing.

jim campbell
03-07-2007, 02:15 PM
Those are good suggestions. Both the dealer and the manufacturer will have very good working knowledge of what amps, and how much power, makes these speakers sing.the dealer has the krell 300 on consignment and its local.so no shipping cost.the guy who owns the amp just upgraded to a krell 600.i just dont know if the 300 is the one but from what ive heard about krell they are built to last.are the pass labs in the same league?are ther e andy others that would suit for the same money.we dont have a lot of shops with this kind of gear to demo and we are a long way from anywhere that does.the pre amp thing is a concern as well

scott fitlin
03-07-2007, 02:21 PM
You would have to take the amp home, and listen to it on your speakers in your room, and for a week or so. Then you would know if its for you. Youll know.

However, that the dealer recommends waiting for a 600 to show up, and there is an issue with the 300, maybe they are telling you something?

But, if you can get that amp they have right now, on audition loan, thats the only way to know for sure.

jim campbell
03-07-2007, 02:30 PM
no the dealer wants to sell me the 300 and one of the members here says wait (pm)i can ask for a home audition but id be surprised if they gave it to me.they really have nothing else comparable except new and i doubt if they would even open the box of one of those.the cost of stock up here makes keeping large inventories impractical.the first time i walked into a musical inst store in utah i couldnt believe how much there was on display.i think theres a tax difference that allows for us stores to carry inventory that most canuck retailers can only dream of

scott fitlin
03-07-2007, 02:35 PM
OK, I see where this is at!

I would call Wilson. They will be more than happy to make a recommendation that they truly believe in.

As for the dealers recommendation, Im sure the 300 probably does work on those speakers well, but, you still gotta try it on your speakers and see how it sounds.

You say you have a Bryston 4B? Have you tried that amp? Im not a Bryston freak, but that is a ballsy amp, and can deliver high current to the speakers, ( Makes good bass ) and might get you by in the interim?

Make arrangements, or try to, to get that Krell in your house for an in home audition.

sourceoneaudio
03-07-2007, 02:50 PM
Jim,
Few more thoughts from me. Here is a review on the Adcom GFA-5802, this amp is no longer in production, and the last retail pricing on it was $2500.00. This amp was compared directly to Mac, and Krell back in 2000, and held its own. Personally I would not own a Krell I think they are over rated for what you get. (my opinion) The GFA-5802 just went out of production just two months ago, and is and always been highly sought after before and since the discontinue. Used prices on these have gone up considerably, and are hard to come by at the moment. This amp will do over 500 a channel into 4ohms and the build quality along with sonic quality is very pleasing, and impressive from all aspects. This might be a direction you want to look at, it is considered an Audiophile grade amplifier. If you lived closer I would let you borrow one to try out. If you have any questions on them or how I like mine feel free to pm.

J/S-S1A :bouncy:

http://www.avrev.com/equip/adcom5802/index.html
http://www.adcom.com/prod/shopdisplayproducts.asp?hid=0&cid=0&sid=0&prodid=1151

http://www.avrev.com/gifs/adcom5802/enya.gifThe Adcom, the Krell 300iL amplifier section and the McIntosh Laboratories MC602 are all extremely good and have ample power for just about anything short of running the public address system at your local football stadium. The Krell is very sharp and clinical, accurate but slightly cold. On the other side, the McIntosh is still accurate, but not as sharp and its tonal balance yet is warmer, reminiscent of tubes. The Adcom falls between these two, slightly closer to the McIntosh with its laid-back character. The Adcom’s midrange is not quite as warm and "tubey" as the McIntosh, but it definitely leans that way.

L100t Owner
03-07-2007, 04:01 PM
OK, I see where this is at!

I would call Wilson. They will be more than happy to make a recommendation that they truly believe in.

As for the dealers recommendation, Im sure the 300 probably does work on those speakers well, but, you still gotta try it on your speakers and see how it sounds.

You say you have a Bryston 4B? Have you tried that amp? Im not a Bryston freak, but that is a ballsy amp, and can deliver high current to the speakers, ( Makes good bass ) and might get you by in the interim?

Make arrangements, or try to, to get that Krell in your house for an in home audition.

I have Bryston 7B ST's and have thought of "upgrading" to Krell 600's or maybe Levinsons. I have no reason to do it. The real thing that keeps stopping me is that my Brystons run cool with a difficult load (B&W N801's) and Krells run very hot.

scott fitlin
03-07-2007, 04:11 PM
I have Bryston 7B ST's and have thought of "upgrading" to Krell 600's or maybe Levinsons. I have no reason to do it. The real thing that keeps stopping me is that my Brystons run cool with a difficult load (B&W N801's) and Krells run very hot.Brystons are VERY well made, and can handle just about any load.

I have heard Krell, but only once, and on Maggies. The guy who has these speakers owns a Mc, and that sounds really good on those speakers. I refrain from making a recommendation, other than to try it and see what it sounds like, etc, because I dont have enough experience with Wilson speakers, I dont know Jims listening tastes, etc.

But, I do know you take the amp home for a week, that will tell you what you need to know, :yes: !

I also know that talking to the manufacturer will get you proper and trustworthy answers too. Afterall, Wilson is a prestigious manufacturer and they want you to be satisfied with their speakers. And a happy customer will speak highly of the brand, and word of mouth from happy users is always great publicity and advertising. Not to mention Im sure Wilson really knows what will make their speakers tick, the SPECTACULAR WAY!

:)

Titanium Dome
03-07-2007, 06:10 PM
For the business you gave the dealer and the investment you made in speakers from his showroom floor, I find it unthinkable that he wouldn't quickly and willingly let you take the 300 home for an audition.

You're not a casual shopper, looking for a free audition on something you'll never buy. You're a confirmed and valued customer who paid a lot for some fine equipment who would like to spend even more money to protect that investment.

If the dealer can't see that, he's a moron.

You can show him my post if you'd like. He'd never get another penny from me with that attitude.

scott fitlin
03-07-2007, 06:16 PM
For the business you gave the dealer and the investment you made in speakers from his showroom floor, I find it unthinkable that he wouldn't quickly and willingly let you take the 300 home for an audition.

You're not a casual shopper, looking for a free audition on something you'll never buy. You're a confirmed and valued customer who paid a lot for some fine equipment who would like to spend even more money to protect that investment.

If the dealer can't see that, he's a moron.

You can show him my post if you'd like. He'd never get another penny from me with that attitude.Well, yeah, I agree, the dealer should allow Jim to audition the Krell on his speakers in his house. Especially to make the sale, say-so just isnt good enough at this level of price range!

Matter of fact, the dealer should cart the amp to Jims house, set it up, and demo it personally. If its that good, it will sell itself.

I think I might leave out " the dealer is a moron " part, though! :rotfl:

morbo!
03-07-2007, 06:41 PM
http://www.diyhifi.org/amplifierguru/guru_001.htm

yup
Im still in love with it
Amazing sound
It`s more than the sum of it`s parts
And you could build a shit load of them for the price of a commercial unit.

JBLRaiser
03-07-2007, 07:01 PM
im interested in hearing any input for short term and long range power for my wilsons.i currently own an audio research sp6a pre and a bryston 4b.there is a krell fpb 300 here but i have been advised by one of the guys to wait for a 600.there is ,i read that a potential problem with direct coupled pre's and krells exists that caused more than a few to blow up.i cannot buy a new amp and a new pre at once. there is a pair of pass labs 600 mono blocs out there that look interesting.any ideas............................the price range is around 4 5 k us used

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fsb/fsb_archive/2003/07/01/347339/index.htm

jim campbell
03-07-2007, 07:17 PM
Well, yeah, I agree, the dealer should allow Jim to audition the Krell on his speakers in his house. Especially to make the sale, say-so just isnt good enough at this level of price range!

Matter of fact, the dealer should cart the amp to Jims house, set it up, and demo it personally. If its that good, it will sell itself.

I think I might leave out " the dealer is a moron " part, though! :rotfl:well i wouldnt say that,its a small dealer and theres not much else on the floor.im sure i heard him say that it is a consignment.i dont doubt he would demo it himself but as far as leaving it here for a week i kind of doubt it.considering the size of the city there is very little in the way of sota audio on offer.once you factor in the difference in the money and the 13 % tax you understand why.hes been in the business for a long time and i dont doubt his integrity and i do understand that the market for this kind of stuff is very thin here especially now that it must compete with ht

John
03-07-2007, 07:17 PM
I have met that dealer, I can confirm he is no moron, He is a very knowledable guy that lives and eats audio and video. One of the best in town.

jim campbell
03-07-2007, 07:31 PM
OK, I see where this is at!

I would call Wilson. They will be more than happy to make a recommendation that they truly believe in.

As for the dealers recommendation, Im sure the 300 probably does work on those speakers well, but, you still gotta try it on your speakers and see how it sounds.

You say you have a Bryston 4B? Have you tried that amp? Im not a Bryston freak, but that is a ballsy amp, and can deliver high current to the speakers, ( Makes good bass ) and might get you by in the interim?

Make arrangements, or try to, to get that Krell in your house for an in home audition.the 300 was the amp used in the showroom to demo the wilsons and was excellent.the choice i have to make is to spend 5 k on a ten year old krell that over time may or may not be the be all and end all amp or to wait and pick up something like a 600 or comparable mono blocs for more money.i would like the next amp to be the one i marry.wilson says the minimum is 7 watts but im one of those guys that believes that more power is the way to god.the downside i see to the krell is that for best results it limits pre choices to the cast stuff.the bryston has been good and mostly used to power my l136a's but i will probably keep it as a spare and sell my 3b and sae 2200

jim campbell
03-07-2007, 07:33 PM
I have met that dealer, I can confirm he is no moron, He is a very knowledable guy that lives and eats audio and video. One of the best in town.care to wade in here john?

Mr. Widget
03-07-2007, 08:04 PM
im interested in hearing any input for short term and long range power for my wilsons.I am not a particular fan of Krells... but I have heard the Grand Slamms powered by some big ass Krell mono blocks... and the system sounded quite good. Another time I heard the Slamms powered by large VTL mono blocks... and they sounded pretty damned good too.

If I could afford it, I'd probably go with a pair of Pass Labs XA 200s.


Widget

scott fitlin
03-08-2007, 07:28 AM
the 300 was the amp used in the showroom to demo the wilsons and was excellent.the choice i have to make is to spend 5 k on a ten year old krell that over time may or may not be the be all and end all amp or to wait and pick up something like a 600 or comparable mono blocs for more money.i would like the next amp to be the one i marry.wilson says the minimum is 7 watts but im one of those guys that believes that more power is the way to god.the downside i see to the krell is that for best results it limits pre choices to the cast stuff.the bryston has been good and mostly used to power my l136a's but i will probably keep it as a spare and sell my 3b and sae 2200That the manufacturer tells you 7 watts minimum tells me something. The Wilsons are efficient. Power is important, but, the magic happens when you find just the right amp and synergy between speakers and amps is there.

If you trust your dealer, and I would assume at this level of gear, he is knowledgable, and values his customer base, take his recommendation.

If you heard the Krell on these speakers in the showroom, and YOU know you already liked it, I would say you can use this amp, and with a bit of effort in exact speaker placement, you could probably achieve very similar results in your room, sonically.

jim campbell
03-08-2007, 09:47 AM
thanx all for taking the time to contribute.it is much appreciated and has been a big help in deciding which way to go.

scott fitlin
03-08-2007, 11:17 AM
So, Jim, what way are you going?

:)

Ian Mackenzie
03-08-2007, 05:02 PM
Jim,

Pity we are not neighbours..you could try my X250.5.

The first few watts a fairly critical with a a system like the Wilsons.

I imagine the X600's would be a good starting point.

Ian

boputnam
03-08-2007, 05:49 PM
P.S. Nelson went from Nakamichi to Adcom so I stayed with the builder from an engineering standpoint. (Excellent):yes:


I am not a particular fan of Krells... :no:

jim campbell
03-08-2007, 06:33 PM
if i can find a krell 600 i n my price range and my pre amp will work.or plan b.............i saw a set of pass labs x 600's that were a couple of k outside my range.id like to use my sp6a for now and upgrade later.its tax time and i think my refund will just about do it

jim campbell
03-08-2007, 06:35 PM
Jim,

Pity we are not neigbours..you could try my X250.Ianand i wouldnt be up to my butt in snow either

Ian Mackenzie
03-09-2007, 02:21 AM
Jim,

My keyboard needs replacing.

I would not mess around. Just give him a call and ask the question.

Here is a link to a review.

http://www.passlabs.com/downloads/poltun-xa160-x600.pdf

Mark Sammut at RenoHifi regularly has some great deals on factory reconditioned Passlabs gear. Mark also has excellent credentials.

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fb.pl?user=Renomarks&&&&

Ian

porschedpm
03-09-2007, 07:45 AM
I'm currently using a Pass Labs X150.5 and an X250 in a bi-amp arrangement to power my 4343's (upgraded to 4344's). In my opinion it truly is musical nirvana and I can't imagine how it could get any better. When I first acquired these speakers I was running them with a Mcintosh MC-150 in a single amp setup. Sounded very good. A warm sounding amp but lacked a slight amount of detail. Then I replaced the Mac with the Pass Labs X250 still in a single amp set-up (got a great deal from Mark Sammut at Reno Hi-Fi http://www.renohifi.com/ ). What a huge difference. Still that warm sound but greatly improved bass control and detail. And they're built to last a lifetime. For a short while I bi-amped the system using the Pass X250 for the bottom end and the Mac 150 for the top end. It actually sounded better running single amped with the just the Pass X250. Then I got another great deal from Mark on the Pass X150.5 so I tried the bi-amp arrangement again and this time I got a quantum leap in improvement in both top and bottom end detail. The newer ".5" versions of the Pass amps also add a little more warmth while still retaining the detail. I can only guess the XA versions are even that much better. My first experience with a Nelson Pass designed amp was when I first heard a Threshold amp at the 1978 CES show. It was blowing people away it was so good.

I use a Bryston 9B-ST in a home theater set up and it's very good in that arrangement. But I agree with some of the earlier comments regarding the Brystons. It does everything very good and it has great build quality. But it's a little on the analytical side and lacks that last bit of warmth or musicality you come to expect from a high end amp. Don't get me wrong, it's a great amps, but it's your traditional solid state amp. Perfect for home theater.

Another high end amp that at least one member here (Ken P.) swears by is Boulder.

boputnam
03-09-2007, 02:27 PM
Ian: Thanks for the Pass Labs review Link - the discussion of the variances piano brand to piano brand is very true.

Ed: Great review, helpful. Good to see you pop up!

Shane Shuster
03-09-2007, 10:25 PM
My advice would be to listen to the speakers for 3 to 6 months and then decide what, if anything, needs changed. I think just shopping for "better" components, without clear goals, is a merry-go-round of wasted time and money.