2120

[pangea]

Hi!

I have been offered a pair of 2120's in mint condition at a very reasonable prize.

I have a pair of empty sub chambers with an internal volume of about 6 Liters, where they would fit perfectly, I think. However I'm not sure if the 2120 perhaps crave a larger box?

Any suggestions, somebody please.

Also, what's the difference between these and other similar drivers, where was it used and where could I find pictures of these?

Is it possible to use a first order crossover on them and leave the hi pass section out and use it's natural roll off downwards instead?

BR
Roland

[4313B]

Hello,

The 2120 is the Pro version of the K110 Musical Instrument transducer. I think Bo posted the old Musical Instrument loudspeaker construction plans and tuning information somewhere. It might be in the Library (http://www.lansingheritage.org/).

It can go into sealed enclosures as small as 0.4 cubic feet with -3/6/10 dB downpoints at ~ 145/110/85 Hz.

[GordonW]

Hence, it sounds like those chambers are too small.

.4 cubic feet is about 11.2 liters... your chamber is just over half that size.

Regards,
Gordon.

[pangea]

Thanks for your input guys.

I will obviously have to rethink my plans for them.

BTW, do the 2120 stand a better chance from degenerating than those with rubber foam surrounds?

BR
Roland

[Mr. Widget]

The treated cloth surround material that the 2120 has should last a very long time, however as a pro driver it may have seen a very hard life and have a tired spider or slightly warped VC. Unfortunately many pro drivers are pretty worn out from the rigors of daily life.

[pangea]

Originally posted by Mr. Widget
The treated cloth surround material that the 2120 has should last a very long time, however as a pro driver it may have seen a very hard life and have a tired spider or slightly warped VC. Unfortunately many pro drivers are pretty worn out from the rigors of daily life.

So if it's true that these drivers are sparsely used and have been laying on a shelf the last decade or so, you think they might be attractive to buy?

BR
Roland

[Mr. Widget]

Only if you are looking for an extended range type woofer with a moderately peaky response and no low frequency response. I don't mean that as a put down like it sounds, but simply that is what these drivers are like.

If you have a system in mind that could use them, and the price is right, go for it.

[pangea]

Originally posted by Mr. Widget
Only if you are looking for an extended range type woofer with a moderately peaky response and no low frequency response. I don't mean that as a put down like it sounds, but simply that is what these drivers are like.

If you have a system in mind that could use them, and the price is right, go for it.

You think they would work well as mid-bass driver in a four way system from around 300 - 1000 HZ
2220A beneath and 2445J/075 above.

BR
Roland

[mikebake]

My opinion is that for the time and money involved to put together a 4 way system, there are better drivers out there for the job, even if this are really cheap. Widgets description of their performance is spot on.
If you are like many of us, if the price is right you'll buy them anyway just to have them around and give them a try now and then.

BTW, money and power have always been both the problem and the solution, starting in some millenia B.C.......................


MBB

[pangea]

Originally posted by mikebake
My opinion is that for the time and money involved to put together a 4 way system, there are better drivers out there for the job, even if this are really cheap. Widgets description of their performance is spot on.
If you are like many of us, if the price is right you'll buy them anyway just to have them around and give them a try now and then.

BTW, money and power have always been both the problem and the solution, starting in some millenia B.C.......................


MBB

You're right, if they still are up for sale, I think I'll buy them.

This may not be the forum to discuss my philosophy, but I'm convinced that if we (humanity) insist on keeping our present "toolbox"/mindset/values, i.e. the money and power thing and the winner takes all mentality that goes along with it, this world will never become peaceful. It will only take us to our own demise, sooner rather than later, IMHO.

BR
Roland

[mikebake]

"This may not be the forum to discuss my philosophy,"
It's not

" this world will never become peaceful."
It won't

" It will only take us to our own demise, sooner rather than later, IMHO."

Not necessarily.

Anyway, about those woofers..............

[Mr. Widget]

Originally posted by pangea


This may not be the forum to discuss my philosophy,... this world will never become peaceful. It will only take us to our own demise, sooner rather than later, IMHO.

BR
Roland


You are right on both counts. :( :(

[pangea]

Originally posted by Mr. Widget
You are right on both counts. :( :(

However in the mean time we keep building ever bigger/better speakers and listen to them, hopefully giving some relief from the worries that surround us.

I can speak only for my self when I say that there is NOTHING that can heal my soul better than sitting in front of my beloved JBL speakers, listening to my favorite music, which BTW right now is the guitarist Antonio Forcione (unfortunately only released on NAIM RECORDS).

If you haven't heard of him yet, I suggest you start with his Live album. I guarantee, you won't be disappointed!!!
IMO, he's better than Pat Metheny and Al Di Meola put together.

BR
Roland

[JBLnsince1959]

pangea


I agree with Mr. Widget's description and mikebake's idea about the 4 way.:yes:


My personal and subjective opinion is that as a "mid-base" ( say 300 to 600-700) they sound a little "thin" . Something like a 2202 fits better in that range. The 2120 is best (IMHO) about 600-700 to 1200-1600. BUT, then your talking about a 5way....... ( sigh)

If the price is right, I'll buy 'em and just play with 'em.

Thanks for the info on Antonio Forcione, I'll look for it tonight.

as far as philosophy, try reading Ken Wilber( if you haven't already), gives some hope.


Now, back to the MUSIC........
:band:

[boputnam]

Originally posted by pangea
... the money and power thing and the winner takes all mentality that goes along with it, this world will never become peaceful. It will only take us to our own demise, sooner rather than later, IMHO. Whoa... And all I'm worried about is continental drift! :banghead:


But mikebake killed me with this one:
If you are like many of us, if the price is right you'll buy them anyway just to have them around and give them a try now and then. Boy-howdy, does my wifey know that's true... :rotfl:

[mikebake]

Bo;
As we know, even suboptimal JBL woofers are things of intrinsic interest to us; almost like dog pound puppies that are better off on OUR shelf than somewhere else...............

Pangea;
I haven't read Ken Wilber, but I am a person of continual hope, and don't believe that cynicism/pessimism are correct responses to our plight. Things are better than that.

MBB

[GordonW]

Hey, in danger of veering too off-topic...

Speaking of Al DiMeola, I just found "Elegant Gypsy" on LP, looks like it hardly ever was played. For a BUCK! SCORE! :D

Regards,
Gordon.

[pangea]

Mikebake:
I know I can be somewhat cynical from time to time, but hey I'm also hopeful and optimistic that change will come, but I also think nothing will change as long as there are fortunes and power positions left to be defended.
I'll keep a look out for Ken Wilber.

Gordon:
Congatulations!!! But have you heard of Antonio Forcione?

boputnam:
Ain't life a bitch?

JBLnsince1959:
I think the 2202 will be too large, apart from being hard to find in these neck of the woods.
Please let me know what you think of Forcione after having listened to him.

BR
Roland

[Earl K]

Hi Pangea


I think the 2202 will be too large, apart from being hard to find in these neck of the woods.

If you are after a current State of the Art 10"- buy a pair of JBL 2012(s) and then as MikeBake mentioned, give all other orphaned JBLs' a good home.

The 2012 has more authority in the 100 to 250 hz range than the 2123 or its M.I. cousins, which are all bit shy of the mark - driving people to use 12(s).

This is a "deep-gap" mid/bass driver, which,( for all other things being equal ) , will give a bit better resolution, if your system is up to it. It has a 1/2" deep gap that is comparable to the Altec 515 or the JBL le15. The one down-side of JBLs' new "deep-gappers" seems to be a commonly occuring, upper midrange "bloom". This will need to be controlled with extra "due diligence" in any passive crossover design.

regards <> Earl K :)

[JBLnsince1959]

pangea:

Oh, I didn't mean to imply or suggest that you should use the 2202, I was just talking about the strengths of different speakers.

Well, I didn't get to look last night for Forcione, wife came downstairs and had other plans (sigh:( ), will look sometime today.

As far as the contemporary philosopher Ken Wilber, if you do start to read him ( reeeeeally Deeeeep stuff) and wish to discuss ideas you can always email me directly as this forum isn't the place for this type of discussion.

boputnam:
And I'm most concerned with mid-DRIFT bulge ( gee, do these pants make my butt look big? ha :slink: )

[pangea]

Originally posted by Earl K
Hi Pangea



If you are after a current State of the Art 10"- buy a pair of JBL 2012(s) and then as MikeBake mentioned, give all other orphaned JBLs' a good home.

The 2012 has more authority in the 100 to 250 hz range than the 2123 or its M.I. cousins, which are all bit shy of the mark - driving people to use 12(s).

This is a "deep-gap" mid/bass driver, which,( for all other things being equal ) , will give a bit better resolution, if your system is up to it. It has a 1/2" deep gap that is comparable to the Altec 515 or the JBL le15. The one down-side of JBLs' new "deep-gappers" seems to be a commonly occuring, upper midrange "bloom". This will need to be controlled with extra "due diligence" in any passive crossover design.

regards <> Earl K :)

Thanks Earl for your expertise. I thought the 2123 had the most "muscles". I'll keep an eye out for some 2012s.

Would this upper midrange "bloom" be inside the 300 - 1000 range of the 2012? I was thinking of keeping my reconed 2220A beneath.

BR
Roland

[Earl K]

Hi Roland

The "Bloom" is in the 900 to 1200 hz area - if I remember correctly .

Guido may remember better than I . I've measured some of my stock - but I'm not sure I kept the reponse curves.

2012H(s) don't come up for sale often - they're quite a new product.

I think you're better off buying new ( again, as Guido did - I believe ).

regards <. Earl K