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hakka26
02-28-2007, 11:13 PM
Picked up a pair of these at a moving sale last month for $5 includng stands. Planning to fully audition them end of this month. Seems like all drivers are working though difficult to be sure of all panels. Anyone have any experience with these?

Titanium Dome
03-01-2007, 02:15 AM
Looks like they've been "customized" with some putty.

The original spec (from a reliable source):

hakka26
03-03-2007, 11:56 AM
Actually, I believe it is Bluetac and was used by Infinity to alter mass and sound. 35wpc rating is the minimum. If all goes well I might have some space to at least put them side by side and give a better listen.

Tom Brennan
03-03-2007, 09:01 PM
Those are interesting. Are the tweeters firing out the back?

hakka26
03-03-2007, 09:15 PM
THe tweeters fire to the front but the box is open to the rear also. Grill cloth covers the rear opening.

Hoerninger
03-04-2007, 05:12 AM
Lots of information you can find here:
http://www.infinity-forum.de/2000A.html
(Was looking for Infinity Servo Static 1, an old love ;) only for one afternoon)
____________
Peter

fs41
03-05-2007, 01:56 PM
Hey there,
Nice score!
I was bitten by the 2000A bug about 4 years ago. I've been searching and slowly collecting info on these speakers the best I can, but as you might have found, there isn't much out there.
From what I've found there was differences in the model throughout production. One big difference was the midrange driver. I can't recall what the make of the unit that is in your speakers, but in my opinion it was inferior to the Phillips unit (identifiable by tan cone, cloth surround, and black whizzer cone) that came in my 2000A's. I have had the opportunity to hear both and the difference was, well, big. Other differences I've seen are: rear plate with different binding posts, knobs, and lettering, as well as the woofer being either surface mounted or 'let-in' flush to the front baffle.

The tacky rings ARE a factory installed ring that was used to voice the driver to the cabinets. My theory on this is: The cabinets are of a resistive damped design, ala the huge wad of damping material inside both the main cabinet and the midrange compartment. Since the boys in the factory couldn't really install the material exactly the same every time, the damping characteristics of each cabinet/woofer system would be inherently different ultimately affecting the sound of the speaker. The ring enabled them to voice each speaker closely to the rest or to a spec so they would all (hopefully) sound the same and achieve the desired frequency response. Interestingly enough though, the pair that I use were consecutive serial #s, and the damping material in each weighed the exactly same. I went in and fiddled with the stuffing for quite some time, trying to get it as evenly ditributed, until I was able to get both of my cabinets voiced together nicely, without the ring! It was a lot of messing around, but it was winter, I was bored, and it kept me out of the pub for a couple weeks. I fully believe the result was better than the original factory voicing, marked by amazingly well tamed bass I can only describe as 'fudgesicle'.

Now here's a catch-22 in the design of these speakers. The crossover and high voltage bias supply are installed on the back of the plate housing the inputs, controls, etc. The only way to access it is by removing the woofer and pulling out a lot of wadding, which is going to change the sound of these speakers once you put everything back. Here's a tip: If you go inside these speakers, plan on making a new mounting arrangement for the rear plate so that it is outboard of the cabinet, instead of trapped internally. There is a fuse in the bias supply which may need replacement sometime, and the midrange pot and tweeter setting switch will need cleaning sometime. After all, these speakers are nearly 40 years old!

The tweeter panels were made by RtR, which is actually in business, but hasn't made electrostatic stuff in a long time. Finding replacements is difficult. The high voltage transformer is an odd value that isn't really available either. A simple way to check if each one is running is to just use something like a paper towel tube and your ears. Tune into white noise on an unused radio frequency and listen to each panel through the tube. Also, the rear cover for the tweeter tunnel is removable if you wish, just pry on it a little. Makes for an eye catching view through the panel array. Another check you might want to do is: while playing white noise, unplug both speakers power cord at the same time. The panels will continue to produce sound for several seconds as the bias supply caps drain. Listen to see if one fades faster than the other. This may indicate a drift in component values that could lead to trouble.

The most important factor in getting these speakers to really sing (like most speakers) is having an amp that is right for the job. These speakers are a solid 4ohm load and not very voltage sensitive (inefficient), which some amps wont tolerate very well. I've tried a couple small low wattage tube amps, and they simply didn't have nearly enough snort to get the Infinitys to come alive. Stepping into solid state, a 35 watt amp (such as a Marantz 2235 receiver) doesn't have the mettle either. A 70 watt Marantz 4270 gets them going. An amp over 100 watts comfortable with a 4ohm load and with a high 'damping factor' really gets these going. If yours are working well you will definately be able to hear their ability to truly reproduce 30hz and below! I like the bass of these speakers more than any other I've heard, but it took all that fussing with them to get that far.

If you like doing some tweaking, these might offer a lot of enjoyment. Be aware that one of the failure modes of these speakers is they may catch fire if, say for example, the internal line or HV wiring were to rub and short. I'm long past that fear, and leave mine plugged in constantly to a proper line conditioner and avoid on/off cycling. Maybe it will help the power supply last longer, maybe not. I also installed some stretchy plastic mesh (like those net sacks for oranges) over the crossover/HV supply to keep the stuffing away from the electrical components just to be safe(r).


So what equipment will you be auditioning these with?

fs41

SEAWOLF97
03-05-2007, 02:01 PM
My bud picked up 1 of these. It also had the clay like stuff on the woofer. Since only had 1, he parted it out. Got about $175 on feeBay.

We played it for a bit. Actually sounded very good.

hakka26
03-13-2007, 07:28 PM
fs41,
Thanks for the additional info. I am planning to run an Onkyo TX-8500 through them. I was hoping to free up some space last week but plans fell through.

fs41
03-17-2007, 01:00 PM
Have fun! Looks like the Onkyo should run them well.

Looks like I also forgot to mention that you will probably also want to play with elevating them, spacing them apart, and out from the wall. The first time I hooked mine up they were on the floor, a foot away from the wall, about six feet apart and they stayed that way for a while because they imaged so well in the little room I had them in. I've moved a few times since then, and every room required a different elevation, but low always seems to be good.

If you're not getting really good imaging you may need to adjust their positions. Don't worry about the non-mirror imaged design of the cabinets. They will 'come out of their boxes' so to speak when you find the sweet spot for positioning. Also make sure the mid and tweeter controls are matched, as this will throw things off as well. Tweeters are pretty straight forward, I'd just leave them on protect or normal, NEVER +3db. Mids are a little more difficult, but you can set them with a mono FM signal off your receiver. Set both speakers on the floor with just enough space to sit between. Play the mono signal, listen closely to the mids and adjust the control while sitting right between them (I think you can reach around each speaker and manipulate both controls simultaneoulsy). Once you have them set where you think they are both equall in output, make a small tickmark where the knobs for the mid controls are pointing. This will just be a sort of benchmark to see if the controls of each speaker are operating uniformly to each other. You can also use it to adjust to taste later on, and always have somehwere to come back to that you know they are outputting equally. These suckers are old, the pots may not track perfectly to each other, and as pots go, they don't look like anything too fancy anyway. They may also require a little cleaning as well.
Also, the plugs for the HV supply aren't polarized, so you might want to play with plugging them in both ways to see if one way is more silent. I noticed a small difference on mine and wrote 'FAT' on the applicable blades.

I hope they impress! Have fun and please post results!
fs41

hjames
06-02-2023, 02:38 PM
Sadly, that website is no more (its for sale now).
And I just wound up with a battered pair of Infinity 2000As


Lots of information you can find here:
http://www.infinity-forum.de/2000A.html
(Was looking for Infinity Servo Static 1, an old love ;) only for one afternoon)
____________
Peter

Mr. Widget
06-02-2023, 02:44 PM
Battered yes... the cabinets need love, but how about the drivers? Are they all working?

Looks like a Phillips full-range driver sandwiched between the electrostatic elements and an interesting woofer.


Widget

hjames
06-11-2023, 06:56 AM
One speaker worked, one did not - but - there is a 3 position Mode switch (Normal/3DB/Protect) on the back of the cabinets on the crossover panel - it felt like the knob was spinning on the non-working speaker. Tightened the setscrew on the knob, pulled the woofer and found the cabinet stuffed with more polyfill the I have ever found in a speaker! Pulled it out, clipped the woofer wires, and sprayed the switch with DeOxit, worked it back and forth a few times to be sure its working smoothly. Then stuffed all that polyfill back in, reconnected the woofer and closed it all up.
I read that the clay treatment at the center of the woofer was factory tuning!
Kind of a brute-force take on the mass rings of the 2234/2235 JBL woofers, since Infinity did not make their own woofers for these, just bought woofers elsewhere.

Since these speakers have an AC power supply to energize the electrostatic panels, (and they are 50+ years old) I was hesitant to hook them up to my good gear,
so I tied a Lepai chip amp to a spare Apple Airport, and fed it some tunes from my server. I can hear a diff as I try the 3 switch positions - it generally sounds very good!
I tried the other speaker the same way and had good results there as well!
Next step is to haul them indoors and check them out with the better gear!



Battered yes... the cabinets need love, but how about the drivers? Are they all working?

Looks like a Phillips full-range driver sandwiched between the electrostatic elements and an interesting woofer.


Widget

Riley Casey
06-11-2023, 08:30 AM
Nice mass ring there too ;-)

Mr. Widget
06-11-2023, 11:03 AM
I tried the other speaker the same way and had good results there as well!
Next step is to haul them indoors and check them out with the better gear!Exciting... I love vintage gear like this. Very cool project!

I got a kick out of the "mass rings" too.


Widget

hjames
06-12-2023, 11:02 AM
Okay, its a muggy, rainy morning, so Emma helped me bring them in and I hooked them up to the Carver TFM-25 amp and fed them from iTunes ...
I handed Emma her iPad (remote) and let her choose music - her tastes run more to pop but pretty sure her ears are (younger) and better than mine.

Marty Stuart (Way Out West), lots of Mark Knopfler, Spandau Ballet, Funkadelic, Herb Alpert (Rise), Earth Wind & Fire, and finished with Aja ...
I played Trio (Parton, Harris, Ronstadt), Kinks, Dominic Miller/Botti, Daft Punk, and KLF.
Her prognosis is they are impressive - but they do get a bit bogged down with very complex music with a lot of instrument & vocals going.
Bass is amazing - unexpected, even tho specs say 30-30kHz (when new, in 1971!) The tweeter area is open to the rear - so its back and front firing
My feelings - amazement - all in all, they are really impressive for 50 y.o. speakers!
(I really should recap them) ... Heck of a deal for free!

DerekTheGreat
06-13-2023, 04:13 AM
Those are indeed some strange looking speakers, right up my alley. I am skeptical of the bass response as well, I'd imagine based on the literature they're down just 4dB at 30hz? I find that a little hard to believe given that my L150A's weren't flat down to 20hz as advertised (rolled off quickly after 34hz) and that the XPL200's I've got are rated -6dB at 35hz.. No idea what my current system does with it's enormous 18's and large cabinets, but even those require the BX63 type crossover which gives a +6dB bump at something like 29 hz, hence my skepticism.

Anyway, have you or anyone else ever listened to a set of Infinity Column II's? Years ago there was a set for sale locally that I wish I pulled the trigger on. Nice looking cabinets with glass tops. They also sported a 10" doped woofer in it's own enclosure. Everyone who reviewed them online said the bass response was impressive. The weird piezo tweeter and play-doh on the woofers kept me at bay while the L150A's I saw for sale got my bread instead. Now that those are gone, I wonder how things would've been had I went with the Infinities...

hjames
06-13-2023, 05:27 AM
We actually played a lot of various music yesterday and I was amazed at the punch and bottom these things presented. Daft Punk, Boz scaggs Dig, Earth Wind and Fire, even the newer Marty Stuart stuff - played with a tight bottom end. Maybe its due to the huge amount of polyfill those cabinets were tightly stuffed with - I know that changes the apparent size of the cabinets. Maybe its the factory clay woofer "Mass rings" we joked about.
Sure - its not the same Bass as those UREI Monsters you recently bought from Jim, but amazing none-the-less. More than I expected!
I was more sceptical of the 30kHz claimed high end ... but still cool for 1971 speakers!
Yes, I'd love to have a listen to other Infinity speakers - sounds like Arnie Nudell (RIP) and his team was on to something back then ...

Various web pages say that Infinity began making speakers since 1968, when Infinity belonged to Arnie Nudell, John Ulrick and Cary Christie.
They made what can be considered the first pair of High End Speakers in the world, when they introduced the EMIT (electromagnetic induction tweeter) and the EMIM (electromagnetic induction midrange) drivers, flat quasi-ribbons that worked to move air based on the principle of electromagnetic induction.
Of course, since 1983, Infinity has been part of Harman International Industries (which, in 2017, became a subsidiary of Samsung Electronics). Not the same kind of magic.


Those are indeed some strange looking speakers, right up my alley. I am skeptical of the bass response as well, I'd imagine based on the literature they're down just 4dB at 30hz? I find that a little hard to believe given that my L150A's weren't flat down to 20hz as advertised (rolled off quickly after 34hz) and that the XPL200's I've got are rated -6dB at 35hz.. No idea what my current system does with it's enormous 18's and large cabinets, but even those require the BX63 type crossover which gives a +6dB bump at something like 29 hz, hence my skepticism.

Anyway, have you or anyone else ever listened to a set of Infinity Column II's? Years ago there was a set for sale locally that I wish I pulled the trigger on. Nice looking cabinets with glass tops. They also sported a 10" doped woofer in it's own enclosure. Everyone who reviewed them online said the bass response was impressive. The weird piezo tweeter and play-doh on the woofers kept me at bay while the L150A's I saw for sale got my bread instead. Now that those are gone, I wonder how things would've been had I went with the Infinities...

DerekTheGreat
06-13-2023, 09:40 AM
UREI monsters, LoL. They've definitely changed how I look at speakers, thats for sure. I know what you mean though! When my Carver TFM-55x began to make chocolate pudding in it's pants the first time, I took it off main duty and hooked up some JBL LX44's to it. I was impressed with how much punch those little guys had, was not expecting that level of performance from an 8" woofer in the middle of the room. They never relented either, but I was afraid of the Carver sharding itself at those kind of levels as it was already constipated and so I backed off.

I've never heard electrostatics, I'm intrigued. I've heard people describe their sound as, "Swimming in music." I've also never forgotten about the Column II. Something about vintage gear appeals to me, is there a cure?

hjames
06-13-2023, 10:34 AM
The cure for vintage gear is to collect more, but I don't know of any 12 step groups that can help.
I've owned 3 sets of magnepans over the years. A pair of MGIIc, a pair of 6 panel Tympany Ds, and a pair of MGIIbs. The Tympanies were huge in our little house, and panels started failing the morning after I got them home, The MGII speakers played well as long as we had them, (but you always knew they could fail at any time - repairable, with a lot of tedious work).
And with a M&K Volkswoofer filling in the low bass as needed. Maggies are best when in the room, not up against a wall.
Of course, sound on maggies comes from the front and the back - which is pretty amazing as you walk between them to go past them.
My wife Emma also said the Maggies were like "swimming in the music." The Electrostatic panels in the Infinities are open in the front and the rear,
so you get quite a bit of that 3 dimensional sound, (kinda spooky listening behind the speakers). My Von Schweikert VR-4s have a rear facing driver -
they do a bit of that 3D sound too.
A pity the rear of the Infinity 2000a speakers is just a view of ugly MDF, the teak room dividers hide most of that ugly 'face".
Maybe I'll paint the backs black, like the Heaths below.

And - I really liked the "UREI Monsters" - they are amazing and I considered buying them at one point, but they were a bit heavy for me to manage in our small home.


UREI monsters, LoL. They've definitely changed how I look at speakers, thats for sure. I know what you mean though! When my Carver TFM-55x began to make chocolate pudding in it's pants the first time, I took it off main duty and hooked up some JBL LX44's to it. I was impressed with how much punch those little guys had, was not expecting that level of performance from an 8" woofer in the middle of the room. They never relented either, but I was afraid of the Carver sharding itself at those kind of levels as it was already constipated and so I backed off.

I've never heard electrostatics, I'm intrigued. I've heard people describe their sound as, "Swimming in music." I've also never forgotten about the Column II. Something about vintage gear appeals to me, is there a cure?

DerekTheGreat
06-19-2023, 06:47 AM
More stuff seems to keep that itch at bay, that's for sure. I really like trying stuff, keeping what's great or just passing it along if not for me. I think the big thing that keeps me from trying new gear is that big depreciation hit that follows the initial purchase. With the old stuff I've been buying, short of catastrophic failures/repairs being greater than expected, everything has been lateral for me. If I lose money, it's not all that much considering how long I had the piece or what it was worth to me personally to cross it off my list. Some of it has even taken me by surprise. Like my dead Carver TFM-55x, I sold that thing for just about what I paid for it in fully functional condition. :blink:

The panels on the Tympanies, were those also repairable with lots of work? The few Magnepan speakers I looked into sported pretty low sensitivity ratings, so I haven't looked into any of them. Members here helped me confirm I'm an SPL junky, and those UREI's have enabled me to get that "high" I was after without having to have megawatt amplifiers or upgrade my electrical service.. Although I can appreciate the beauty of just one watt or less in the background or as I'm listening. It's just that if I'm actively listening, I tend to want to crank it to eleven at some point.

The UREI's do dominate the room, but we feel they fit and fill the corners in a way that is uniquely us. "Why so big?" is what I heard from Angela's mother the other day.. The answer to that is easy though, these things have set the standard for which others will be judged. Funny how I never truly appreciated percussion and bass guitar like I do now, thanks to these things. Kind of convinced I'll only get that from a system of this magnitude, so now my vintage focus has shifted to amplifiers and preamps.

I almost bought a Volkswoofer! Pretty impressed with M&K subwoofers, they're nice & tight. I've got two MX350THX's that moved to replace JBL E250P's for home theater duties. Revealed just how muddy & boomy those JBL's were.

hjames
06-19-2023, 09:18 AM
And as to JBLs - well, there is something special about a good 15 or 18 inch JBL woofer, adds a lot of presence to the music.
And the Infinitys? I decided the black back treatment of the Heathkits underneath were the way to go, so I got some flat black rustoleum latex paint,
and a 2 " paint roller, and redid the backs - much better looking (see the original look 2 posts down), and at very little expense.
I do need to touch up the end of the rear-facing slot for the Estat tweeters - I thought the rear grill covered it a bit more, but it doesn't.
Infinity specs say 35-65 watts to play, but the Carver TFM-125 is doing them well (I'm not gonna play them stupid loud anyway).

rusty jefferson
06-19-2023, 07:56 PM
Heather, I've been to your house. How the heck did you even get a pair of Tympani D speakers set up in your living room? Talk about a wall of sound. :-D

DerekTheGreat
06-20-2023, 04:54 AM
Those do look much better all black.

I say take the specs and double 'em. You know, I haven't blown a speaker yet... The 128H doesn't count, wasn't even feeding it music. This just inpired me to make a new thread... :D

hjames
06-20-2023, 05:44 AM
Seeing is believing ...
a 6 panel speaker did make it harder to walk around the room ...

Heather, I've been to your house. How the heck did you even get a pair of Tympani D speakers set up in your living room? Talk about a wall of sound. :-D

Back when my main speakers were the L200s with Smith horns and external slots on top.
And we had a pair of KEFs (104s, I think they were), just to try them out ...
There is a certain joy to hearing how someone designs a speaker system to sound!

rusty jefferson
06-20-2023, 06:36 PM
LOL!! Just have to turn sideways to walk between them. Love it.

hjames
07-11-2023, 09:56 AM
I managed to sell the big Heath AS-1348 speakers on the 29th, so I moved the Infinities out of the way, and - for a change, pulled the Volkswoofer and the L212s into place for a while ...
My Raspberry pi4 streamer crashed after a software update a while back and I was to busy with other projects to sort it out, I got a WiimPro streamer and added a Topping E30 II
since I heard good things of the combo. Working through stuff via Qobuz, or, sometimes streaming from my MacMini with a ton of lossless files in iTunes/Music.

Odd
07-11-2023, 10:33 AM
Always wanted the L212.

Not easy to find in Europe.

Well maybe I have too much already.

DerekTheGreat
07-11-2023, 12:00 PM
They do look cool.

What exactly are streamers? Perhaps they're a solution to my problem? I'm looking to get rid of the iPod on my home rig, but can't find anything portable which would allow me to both store my music on it and work with iTunes. Oh yeah, it also has to stream to this Cambridge DAC I bought, but never used. Was just thinking I'd move a computer tower out there with a Toslink output. :dont-know:

hjames
07-11-2023, 01:16 PM
They do look cool.

What exactly are streamers? Perhaps they're a solution to my problem? I'm looking to get rid of the iPod on my home rig, but can't find anything portable which would allow me to both store my music on it and work with iTunes. Oh yeah, it also has to stream to this Cambridge DAC I bought, but never used. Was just thinking I'd move a computer tower out there with a Toslink output. :dont-know:
I think of streamers like digital tuners - use them to connect to web radio and subscription services. The Wiim Pro, like other devices, can also see my macmini server upstairs so I can use it to play music from that.
The WiimPro works with an App I installed on my iPhone and Emma's iPad - and lets me listen to high resolution services that promise better than CD quality. Not gonna argue that,
but it sounds good and service like Qobuz (or Apple Music, etc) have a large library of music so I don't have to buy everything I want to hear. Kinda nice to preview new music and figure if its worth buying or not!
And I like the display on the Topping DACs - lets me see what the hiRes info is on the feed I'm playing ... The data also shows on the App ...

Mr. Widget
07-11-2023, 03:46 PM
Always wanted the L212.

Well maybe I have too much already. Ditto and ditto!


Great to see though!


Widget

DerekTheGreat
07-12-2023, 03:59 AM
I've wanted a L212 with dual subwoofers, L220 and then 250ti. Very cool looking speaks, those be.

As to what Heather said about streamers,

Oh, I see. That would be cool too, especially when it comes to trying to find "new" music. Also suggests that they're not exactly playing .flac or .wav files either, yet still sounds good. I get sneered at for using my iPod, but it's starting to sound like it is at least on par. When I play through the docking station it sounds damn good. I know I'm still (unfortunately) using it's built in DAC, but it's all I can find at the moment. The stuff I consider audiophilic all still sounds better than any record I've played or even in the rare instances where I can compare record against digital for a given track or album. Which is all to say I wonder how much of an improvement I'll see should I actually find a device that does what I want it to do..

Another thing I'd like but don't think it exists, a TV which can display two inputs at once. Why isn't this a thing yet? Angela and I play video games in our down time, but most of them don't have a "couch crawl" mode where like in the old days the two of you (or more) play on the same console and TV. Many games are multiplayer, but they require each person to have their own TV and console. So Angela and I have this atrocious set up downstairs where the main TV is set up like you'd expect it to be, but then there's her smaller TV we set up off to the side along with her Xbox so we can play together while sitting side by side. Would be cool if I could just feed the signal from both of our Xboxes to one large TV and split the screen in half for each respective Xbox, as well as pipe the combined audio signal to the receiver. Why the hell isn't this already a thing???

hjames
07-12-2023, 11:26 AM
I actually have 2 pairs of L212s (one pair walnut, one pair teak) - the eventual plan is to unbolt them from the feet, and stack them sideways on the feet - a wall of sound.
But after a 100 ft tree came crashing down during a microburst June 27th. On the way down it knocked down another tree, and bumped a 3rd that was overhanging the neighbors yard
and we paid to have it cut down too! The tree guys came and cut up the downed 100 year old tree, but we're still waiting for the tree guys to come back and grind down the rootball!
Emma (by the rootball) is sad about losing 3 trees in all of this.
And I've been caught up with yard work, replanting gardens (ripping out ivy and other invasive weeds so I could plant azaleas and hydrangeas), sorting out our ancient brick pathways and patio,
tossing lots of cedar mulch around, repairing a crushed stretch of chain link fence, and other projects in this heat wave. Too darned humid and hot!
So I got no energy to do anything afterwards but head to the showers, flop in a chair, and listen as is ...
Maybe I'll double-stack them later in the month!



I've wanted a L212 with dual subwoofers, L220 and then 250ti. Very cool looking speaks, those be.

As to what Heather said about streamers,

Oh, I see. That would be cool too, especially when it comes to trying to find "new" music. Also suggests that they're not exactly playing .flac or .wav files either, yet still sounds good. I get sneered at for using my iPod, but it's starting to sound like it is at least on par. When I play through the docking station it sounds damn good. I know I'm still (unfortunately) using it's built in DAC, but it's all I can find at the moment. The stuff I consider audiophilic all still sounds better than any record I've played or even in the rare instances where I can compare record against digital for a given track or album. Which is all to say I wonder how much of an improvement I'll see should I actually find a device that does what I want it to do..

Another thing I'd like but don't think it exists, a TV which can display two inputs at once. Why isn't this a thing yet? Angela and I play video games in our down time, but most of them don't have a "couch crawl" mode where like in the old days the two of you (or more) play on the same console and TV. Many games are multiplayer, but they require each person to have their own TV and console. So Angela and I have this atrocious set up downstairs where the main TV is set up like you'd expect it to be, but then there's her smaller TV we set up off to the side along with her Xbox so we can play together while sitting side by side. Would be cool if I could just feed the signal from both of our Xboxes to one large TV and split the screen in half for each respective Xbox, as well as pipe the combined audio signal to the receiver. Why the hell isn't this already a thing???

hjames
07-12-2023, 11:40 AM
The WiimPro is on sale during Amazon Prime Days - from $149 to $119 - today! Move fast!
(You can always use the internal DAC and add an external DAC later, if desired).
There is an App for it for Apple or Android users!


I've wanted a L212 with dual subwoofers, L220 and then 250ti. Very cool looking speaks, those be.

As to what Heather said about streamers,

Oh, I see. That would be cool too, especially when it comes to trying to find "new" music. Also suggests that they're not exactly playing .flac or .wav files either, yet still sounds good. I get sneered at for using my iPod, but it's starting to sound like it is at least on par. When I play through the docking station it sounds damn good. I know I'm still (unfortunately) using it's built in DAC, but it's all I can find at the moment. The stuff I consider audiophilic all still sounds better than any record I've played or even in the rare instances where I can compare record against digital for a given track or album. Which is all to say I wonder how much of an improvement I'll see should I actually find a device that does what I want it to do..

Another thing I'd like but don't think it exists, a TV which can display two inputs at once. Why isn't this a thing yet? Angela and I play video games in our down time, but most of them don't have a "couch crawl" mode where like in the old days the two of you (or more) play on the same console and TV. Many games are multiplayer, but they require each person to have their own TV and console. So Angela and I have this atrocious set up downstairs where the main TV is set up like you'd expect it to be, but then there's her smaller TV we set up off to the side along with her Xbox so we can play together while sitting side by side. Would be cool if I could just feed the signal from both of our Xboxes to one large TV and split the screen in half for each respective Xbox, as well as pipe the combined audio signal to the receiver. Why the hell isn't this already a thing???

DerekTheGreat
07-13-2023, 11:19 AM
Dat's a big tree, and, "Ah lotta damage!" as Phil Swift would say. I like trees, but I systematically went and removed every one of them on my property. Most of them were on my sewer line and so I didn't want to redo that, another really big silver maple was pushing into the garage and destroying pavers, while the Japanese maple tree was too close to the house for my liking and it's roots had become quite invasive. Was sad about losing the Japanese maple, if only it was planted in the back yard.

I missed the sale! I will probably buy one of those. This way dad can just stream stuff to the stereo instead of having to hook it up and I can finally use my DAC. If I make my computer visible to the network, the Wiim Pro be able to access and play stuff from iTunes???

rusty jefferson
07-13-2023, 07:46 PM
.....If I make my computer visible to the network, the Wiim Pro be able to access and play stuff from iTunes???
A quick search online looks like the Wilm Pro can stream music stored in iTunes, theoretically.

https://faq.wiimhome.com/support/solutions/articles/72000572555-how-do-i-play-my-itunes-library-with-this-device-

The important question here is what format the music is stored in on iTunes? If it's AAC there's really no reason to stream that to your stereo (imo). Keep it for the iPod and portable listening.

The Wilm Pro will allow you to stream from an internet service like Qobuz. CD quality sound that's streamed in FLAC for about $12.00 a month. Best value I can remember getting in this hobby. Use the coaxial s/pdif output from the Wilm to your Cambridge dac. You won't listen to AAC files again on the stereo.

I've found that older recordings (originally recorded on analogue tape) tend to sound better in 16/44 than the versions often available on the services in Hi-Rez. Frequently the Hi-Res version gets compressed as part of the Loudness Wars and/or remastered not for the better. YMMV of course.

DerekTheGreat
07-14-2023, 04:10 AM
Hrmm.. "Air Play 2." I'll have to look into that.

The good stuff I've got is either .flac or .wav files, 16 bit, 44.1 or 48khz. I've got a playlist, "For the UREI's" which is all .wav or hi res. But, much of my library was gifted to me from others and is unfortunately .mp3, which is garbage to my eyes, but even most of those files still sound better than the vinyl I've got. However, I'm still on a personal crusade to update my library to .wav as I can. An iPod only has so much capacity though..

I'll have to look into Qobuz, but wouldn't that mean setting up more playlists or hoping their autogenerated playlists jive with what my brain desires?

I agree 100%. First time I heard the difference was when I got the supposed original masters of the first ten studio albums from ZZ Top. These are without question the best sounding albums I have played over my system. Can't get enough of it or speak enough praise about ole Frank Beard, Dusty Hill and of course, Billy Gibbons. Their first album and Tejas just kick so much ass for me. "Shakin' Your Tree." The percussion kit in that, hot damn... Anyway, as a result I've started to buy a few "original" masters and to my surprise, those have replaced the remasters I had thought were holy grail.

rusty jefferson
07-14-2023, 05:24 AM
You're fine then if your iTunes library is stored in .WAV. Don't know how you can use the FLAC files though, I thought iTunes didn't support it. There is a good converter software (dbPoweramp) that can batch convert all your FLAC into .WAV.

Heather can probably advise about Airplay but I thought I read somewhere the sound quality may not be great? Don't hold me to that.

Qobuz would require making new playlists, but you can do that while listening to music. :-) I don't know anyone who has tried the 2 week free demo that hasn't bought into it.

Riley Casey
07-14-2023, 11:45 AM
The Apple lossless format is indistinguishable from FLAC for me and if you're already in the Apple ecosystem it makes life easier to stick with the iTunes / Apple Music app universe. AAC compressed files are noticeably better than the equivalent level of mp3 compression but still noticeably compressed compared to lossless.





A quick search online looks like the Wilm Pro can stream music stored in iTunes, theoretically.

https://faq.wiimhome.com/support/solutions/articles/72000572555-how-do-i-play-my-itunes-library-with-this-device-

The important question here is what format the music is stored in on iTunes? If it's AAC there's really no reason to stream that to your stereo (imo). Keep it for the iPod and portable listening.

The Wilm Pro will allow you to stream from an internet service like Qobuz. CD quality sound that's streamed in FLAC for about $12.00 a month. Best value I can remember getting in this hobby. Use the coaxial s/pdif output from the Wilm to your Cambridge dac. You won't listen to AAC files again on the stereo.

I've found that older recordings (originally recorded on analogue tape) tend to sound better in 16/44 than the versions often available on the services in Hi-Rez. Frequently the Hi-Res version gets compressed as part of the Loudness Wars and/or remastered not for the better. YMMV of course.

hjames
07-14-2023, 11:59 AM
The Apple lossless format is indistinguishable from FLAC for me and if you're already in the Apple ecosystem it makes life easier to stick with the iTunes / Apple Music app universe. AAC compressed files are noticeably better than the equivalent level of mp3 compression but still noticeably compressed compared to lossless.
Thanks Riley! Agreed, most of my 2TB iTunes library is AAC (Apple Lossless format), tho I do have some pop stuff Emma wanted thats 320kb MP3s or similar from other sources (Amazon music, Apple store, etc).
All of that streams through the house via Airplay 2 to the Wiim Pro (or loads onto our iPhones for trips, etc), when I'm not playing web radio like radio Paradise (nice curated playlists/tunes), or higher res tracks from Qobuz.
Tried Qobuz for a month and that saved me from buying a couple CDs that i would have bought and discovered they weren't all that after all! At the annual rate its cheaper than a CD a month, so its well worth it!
Have done the annual subscription as a Christmas present to us twice now! And I still buy CDs of things I like to support the artist ...!

Riley Casey
07-15-2023, 03:08 PM
I'm a fan of a lot of the shows on WOWD in Takoma Park but it's pretty low bit rate stream. Bob Boilen who does the Tiny Desk shows on NPR has a show with a good selection of music I've never heard before on Wednesday mornings.


Thanks Riley! Agreed, most of my 2TB iTunes library is AAC (Apple Lossless format), tho I do have some pop stuff Emma wanted thats 320kb MP3s or similar from other sources (Amazon music, Apple store, etc).
All of that streams through the house via Airplay 2 to the Wiim Pro (or loads onto our iPhones for trips, etc), when I'm not playing web radio like radio Paradise (nice curated playlists/tunes), or higher res tracks from Qobuz.
Tried Qobuz for a month and that saved me from buying a couple CDs that i would have bought and discovered they weren't all that after all! At the annual rate its cheaper than a CD a month, so its well worth it!
Have done the annual subscription as a Christmas present to us twice now! And I still buy CDs of things I like to support the artist ...!

hjames
09-25-2023, 01:26 PM
Sadly, that website is no more (its for sale now).
And I just wound up with a battered pair of Infinity 2000As
and ... now those infinity 2000As are sold/gone - so, happy wife,
and more room in the house for the JBLs! (In truth, she's never complained).
I'd considered striping them for the electrostatic drivers, which sound great,
but like Seawolf, I hated the idea of gutting intact working systems (RIP my friend),
and I found a buyer who appreciated them intact. (And a fan of ESS systems as well!)
They never sounded quite as nice vertical as they did Horizontal on the (unpowered) Heaths.
Book shelf speakers indeed!



Still enjoying the stacked L212s - they sound fantastic with the Acurus 200A amp I got recently got.
A move upward from the Carver TFM-25 (tho its no slouch either).
And since we're headed towards cooler weather, nearly time to look at speaker projects again ...

I've still got the parts for the "JBL Dynamics Project": 2216ND woofs, Walnut Smith horns with 2445J drivers,
and probably the Great Heil drivers on top ... sans a cabinet so far ...
I'll look into that again further after the Richmond Celtic festival in November.