PDA

View Full Version : Building new sub/mid box



maxwedge
01-06-2004, 11:35 AM
Hi guys,
I'm gonna be building a pair of new box's to house some new speakers and could use some advice on tuning. Let me throw out what I've been thinking and see what you think.

The speakers are: 1-2242H (18") and 1-2202H (mid 12") in the same box. The target CF or the 18 I'm shooting for is 10 cu ft. It looks like I'll be tunning this to 25hz as this seems to be what JBL suggests for a sub app with this transducer. All that is perfectly understandably for me. Where I'm lost is with the 12.

My original plan was to take the 18 to 250hz-300hz and stick the 12 in a 1.75 cu ft sealed dogbox. But now as I'm learning about this new 18 (in a sub app), is that they recommend an 80hz-150hz crossover.

So what I'm wondering is should the 12 be in a ported box, now that the crossover is lower than my original plan?:hmm: :hmm: Or leave it sealed?:hmm::confused:

You can find the driver parameters here: http://www.jblpro.com/pub/technote/thiele.pdf

A 2380/2445 combo goes on top of this.

Thanks:) :smthsail:

4313B
01-06-2004, 12:05 PM
Try to keep the 2202 sealed.

What frequency are you crossing the 2445/2380 at?

Are you going to use active filters?

maxwedge
01-06-2004, 12:12 PM
Ok, sealed it is. Is 1.75 cu ft ok? Nothing is built yet and I have BB6P on the way but I figure you you guys have all the answers memorized,;) .

2380 at 1200hz but I can do anything. I have 3 of the latest Rane active crossovers. 1 stereo 3 way and 2-stereo 2 way's. They have 24db/octive slopes and delays to aline the drivers.

4313B
01-06-2004, 01:38 PM
1.6 to 1.8 is fine. That size enclosure for a 2202H is basically an infinite baffle.

maxwedge
01-06-2004, 02:08 PM
Thank's, I post some pic's as I put them together.:smthsail:

Hofmannhp
01-06-2004, 02:40 PM
So what I'm wondering is should the 12 be in a ported box, now that the crossover is lower than my original plan?:hmm: :hmm: Or leave it sealed?:hmm::confused:

Hi Wedge,

you do the same project at the same time like I do..;)
I use the 2240H with 30Hz Fres and a 2202 in a dogybox.

At this time I'm in the mesurement phase with a B&K test set.
I tuned up the port for the 220l box and let the dogybox with about 25l sealed......why?
For my opinion the CF needs (as your idea) 250 to 300 Hz and about 1kHz for the 2395 with a 2441 driver. In this time I use for the tests a 2397 with this 2441.
The 2202, when coupled at 250 Hz doesn't need a ported chamber, cause I don't need to lift up his sub level. This part is for the 2240. Without network the 2202 is able to drive down to 90Hz, as I figured out with the test set. This may show you that its ok with a sealed dogybox.
The port for the 2240 measures W = 560mm x H = 60mm and a D = about 120mm.
This tuning gives me a box resonance frequency in the diagram of 34Hz.....and it's ok. The passive network I figured out with "Microcap" it works fine.
I will try to put some pics in the forum to show what I mean.

keep in touch....

HP

Hofmannhp
01-06-2004, 02:52 PM
This tuning gives me a box resonance frequency in the diagram of 34Hz.....and it's ok. The passive network I figured out with "Microcap" it works fine.
I will try to put some pics in the forum to show what I mean.

Here's the first pic....

Hofmannhp
01-06-2004, 03:03 PM
it's me again......

the small plate left of the 2202 is provided for the mounting of a 2402 hf driver.
I used the doublelayer baffle to handle the poblem with the non frontmounting posibility of the 2402. They will be mounted in the outside layer of the baffle, so I can screw the little platte off , where the 2402 is mounted.

HP

and here you see another pic with the inside stabilizers...with holes for the usage of the whole volume of the box and maximum stability.

Hofmannhp
01-06-2004, 03:05 PM
it's me again......


and here you see another pic with the inside stabilizers...with holes for the usage of the whole volume of the box and maximum stability. [/B][/QUOTE]

HP

maxwedge
01-06-2004, 03:41 PM
Cool:D , you're a little ahead of me but I hope to be cutting out the main pannels on thursday. I've spent about a 1 1/2 weeks working on drawings. I'm going to center my 12 over the 18 and use round (4"??) ports to tune it to 25hz.
I don't really need (would be nice though) an UHF driver as my 2445/2380 combo sounds preatty good.

Yeah, I didn't really think the 2202 needed a port even if crossed over at 100hz. Just wanted to be sure. I've always just followed charts for porting before, but now I want try and learn this stuff.:cool:

Scott

maxwedge
01-08-2004, 08:29 PM
But christmas is over and too much $ spent!:banghead: Oh well.;) It's hard cutting true and making mirrored pieces with a skill saw.
Broke ground (wood??) today and got the baffles and backs cut out. And :wtf:, no one carries 1" stuff around here so I have to be glueing pieces together. Would have had the holes cut out if it wasn't for that.:(

maxwedge
01-09-2004, 09:41 PM
As building progresses, I've been playing around with BB6P. I've attached a graph of 3 drivers: red=2242H, green=2202H and yellow=E-120. What bothers me is the curve for the 2202. It seems to drop off quick in the hi freq.:confused: I was going to cross it over at 1200 but by the looks of this graph it needs to be lower.:(


One thing though....I haven't yet figured out how I should set up the 'responce tab' under driver properties. I've been leaving it alone. Could that be part of the problem.
The dog box size is 20.5"/15.5"/9.5" closed with typ fill.

Anyone got an idea?:help:

maxwedge
01-09-2004, 09:43 PM
here it is:banghead:

4313B
01-10-2004, 05:15 AM
Originally posted by maxwedge
What bothers me is the curve for the 2202. It seems to drop off quick in the hi freq.:confused: I was going to cross it over at 1200 but by the looks of this graph it needs to be lower.:(You might want to read about the "Graph Features", "Driver Acoustic Response", and "On-Axis Piston Band Response". It is true that the off-axis response of the 2202H starts to roll off around ~550 Hz and is ~ 3 dB down at ~ 1.2 kHz. The highest recommended crossover frequency is 1.2 kHz. You can play around with the crossover frequencies with your adjustable active filters :)

2202 (http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/2202.pdf)

I'll try to scan in the 2202H Product Sheet at some point and send it to Don to put in the Library.

4313B
01-10-2004, 05:20 AM
Originally posted by Giskard
Try to keep the 2202 sealed.BTW, now that you have BB6P you might want to plug in the JBL recommendation for a ported enclosure for the 2202H - 17.4" x 14.2" x 12.3" with a 4.2" diameter hole cut in a 3/4" baffle (1.5 cubic feet tuned to 80 Hz).

maxwedge
01-10-2004, 10:43 AM
Ah, turning on the piston band responce really changed things. Yes, I have a lot of learning to do still.:cool:

Here's the graph now: red is 2242, green is 2202 wo/ piston band responce and yellow is 2202 w/ piston responce. I take it the piston band responce mostly effects the on axis feild?

Ported dog box looks good also. Would I loose any 'punch' by going ported? I have room for the port but I need to keep the dimensions for w and h at 20.5 and 14.5 (want to tie into one wall and top of the sub box). Right now I have depth at 9.25 for 1.5 cu ft. Is there a minimum depth that I need to be aware of that could cause problems? (these are all inside mesurements)

Thanks again, I've got to get back to working on these now.
Scott

4313B
01-10-2004, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by maxwedge
I take it the piston band response mostly effects the on axis field?Yes

Originally posted by maxwedge
Would I loose any 'punch' by going ported?Yes, but you might prefer the overall sound of ported instead of sealed. It's a preference and you should give both a listen to see which you prefer. The Qts of the 2202H is intentionally low so that any reasonable size enclosure (1.5 to 2.0 cubic feet) you put it in that is sealed will result in maximum transient response. That's what the JBL midrange transducers are designed for - maximum transient response in sealed enclosures. You might want to look on the Internet and read about Acoustic Suspension versus Infinite Baffle. The 2202H in a 1.5 to 2.0 cubic foot sealed volume behaves like an Infinite Baffle design whereas a transducer such as the LE10H in the same size volume behaves like an Acoustic Suspension design. Most JBL midrange transducers are intentionally designed to operate in sealed enclosures as Infinite Baffle systems to maximize transient response.

You can also play around with BB6P and see how different sized sealed volumes affect power handling, efficiency, response, group delay, etc. A Qtc of ~ 0.5 is critically damped, anything below that enters the realm of an Infinite Baffle design (the transducer begins to act as if it were in "free air" and the enclosure volume begins to have diminishing effect on the transducer). A Qtc of 0.577 is a Bessel response and a Qtc of 0.707 is a Butterworth response. It's probably best to stay away from anything higher than 0.707 in general.

Originally posted by maxwedge
Is there a minimum depth that I need to be aware of that could cause problems?Sure, your internal physical dimensions for any midrange enclosure should follow the "golden ratio" as midrange is the most critical and you want to avoid reinforcing internal standing waves like the black plague. There have been several discussions on this forum about the topic and numerous solutions worthy of investigation. Sonotubes, non-parallel sides, non-parallel baffle and back, etc.

maxwedge
01-10-2004, 07:42 PM
Ok, I'll cut a port and make a removable pannel to try both ported and sealed. I don't think I'll be going for tilted sides and all....I'm having a plenty of a hard time without a table saw. But I will look up the threads.
Thanks.
Here's a few pic's . All the main pannels are cut out and I'm starting to fit one together. Working on the dog box now.

maxwedge
01-10-2004, 07:44 PM
Inside

maxwedge
01-10-2004, 07:47 PM
Back

Hofmannhp
01-11-2004, 03:53 AM
Originally posted by maxwedge
here it is:banghead:

Hi Max,

which kind of measuring software do you use?

and how's the handling of this?

Thanks for comments.

HP

maxwedge
01-11-2004, 08:49 AM
Hi Hofmannhp,
The graph is from BassBox 6 Pro: http://www.ht-audio.com/.
It's a bit pricey but you can get the lite version for less. You have to import your own specs and I think there are less options...you'll have to read about them.
I kinda of new with it, so I still on a learning curve if you know what I mean.

Once I get the box's built I'll fine tune them with a RTA. I don't have a rack mount unit but I found this pc software thats pretty cool. I still need to buy the full version so I can fine tune better but the free version is ok.
http://www.trueaudio.com/
I use a Behringer calibration mic (cheep one, lol) and a small Behringer mixing board for my pc. It's kind of tricky to set up but once you get it right it works pretty well.

Scott

maxwedge
01-15-2004, 06:28 PM
One is almost done...need to work on the port area now. Pannels for 2nd are all cut out so this moving along fairly nice.:)

The baffle fits flush and is 1" thick. It sits 1/2" into the cabinet with a 1/2" lip all around it. The dogbox fits into a grove that is cut on the inside of the baffle.

maxwedge
01-15-2004, 06:30 PM
Braceing

maxwedge
01-15-2004, 06:46 PM
You guys think I should brace the dog box more? It's 20x14.25x10 inchs (1.5 cu ft) and .75" mdf. All the edges are lap joints. You can see it is supported by those 2 2x4's and there's about 6" to the back of the cabinet (hard to see in the pic). I think I'm ok since it's for midrange. It is going to be ported also.

Scott

maxwedge
01-15-2004, 07:04 PM
One Last pic. Thanks to Giskard for the 2242HPL's:D :cool: I'ts on it's back so they don't fall out, lol.:)

4313B
01-15-2004, 07:30 PM
Holy Rolling Donut Batman! That 2242HPL looks pretty groovy :coolness:

I've really come to love those beasts. :p

Nice work dude! :yes:

*****

BTW - Speaking of Mopars, you ever ride in a 440 six pack?

maxwedge
01-16-2004, 01:31 AM
Yep, passed a chp at 160 mph in a 68 GTX 440 six pack 4-speed!:nutz: :wave: No, I wasn't driving. Yes, we got away!:D The guy was giving out a ticket and boy you should have seen his neck snap, LOL!:)

Hofmannhp
01-16-2004, 03:39 AM
Hi Scott,

your cab looks very nice. Have you calculated the crossover...if yes ...can you tell the parts you want to use.
I calculated the crossover for my similar cabs and found out:
4mH and 76uF for Woofer, 90uF and 5,6mH for midbass, 14uF and 3,2m for Mid/high

HP

maxwedge
01-16-2004, 04:47 AM
Hello HP,
I use Rane (http://www.rane.com/ac23b.html) active crossovers, so I can try any crossover points I like. They have 24db slopes and delays for the drivers to aline them electronicaly.

backbeat2000
01-17-2004, 03:38 PM
Hello all,

I've enjoyed reading the postings here and following the progress of the sub/mid JBL cabs. Really nice boxes.

We've built single 18 Jbl boxes ( in 2 sizes), and single & double 12 boxes - we 'stack' them with Altec 511 horns w/ 808 drivers. Crossover w/ Rane (24 Db - usually ~100-150h/1000-1500). In really small rooms we'll use JBL 15's w/ the Altec horns crossed over at 800 (really 'sweet').

We are moving this stuff around always so we like the 'modular' concept for travel and flexibility.

~1970-71 we built Altec A-7 Voice of the Theatres. Plans were obtained by writing to Altec.

We lost those plans long ago, but would like to get a copy again - we've 'got the bug' to build another pair. Anyone have a set of these plans?

Thanks


Bill & Chris - Here in 'arctic' central NJ, USA

maxwedge
01-17-2004, 08:44 PM
Looks like they may be here. (http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/altec/plans/altec-plans.htm) There's a lot of cool old stuff there and If I had the room I would build a few. Belive it or not , these 18's are going in my house, but if I were to do live sound then I'd much prefer to seperate the 12's. I wanted to keep the cabinets as low as I could and with the horn on top it should be about 4 to 4 1/2 feet high.:)

backbeat2000
01-17-2004, 09:16 PM
Max,

I totally understand putting 18's in the house!! All our newer 18's are 2242's..........and, well, you know.

I've had the 2226 15"s inside (2way w/ the 511B's and 3 way with the JBL 8" cone mid) and they are pretty impressive.

But the 18 ,12, 511B combo is my favorite.

Thanks again for the quick reply!

PS - what music are you listening to w/ these?

maxwedge
01-18-2004, 09:05 AM
Hi backbeat,
I grew up the 70's playing in bands in the SF bay area. In high school was into heavy metal and really wanted to be like Tony Iommi of Black Sabbath. When I heard the Ramones and Sex Pistols I cut my long hair off and never looked back! It was an awesome time for a musican during the punk scene of the '70s and '80s.
:band:
So the short answer is I like hard rock, but I've mellowed a lot since then.:banghead::)

Really though the main use of these 18's are for subs in my surround sound system with my big screen in the center.
http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1421

Hey what do you tune your 18's to? I'm torn between 25hz to go really deep for movies or about 30hz as a compromise for rock and movies. I have 31 band eq's so I could flatten the responce if needed.

Scott

backbeat2000
01-19-2004, 02:02 PM
Scott,

Our smaller 18 boxes were actually built for E-155's and are tuned to 40hz. We upgraded to 2242's (and added some extra support to the cabs).

The larger boxes are 8 cu.ft. tuned to 30hz. Designed so one person can carry them if necessary and to stack under JBL SR 4735's. The subs are 43" tall and ~18" deep (we wanted to make them tall so we could get the mid's and highs above the dance floor and audience. They are modeled somewhat after the older JBL SR single 18" boxes (but are not trapezoids). They can also be stacked horizontally when necessary.

We use them for live sound and DJ work. Amps are Crown Macro tech 600 & 1200ís, and a number of older BGW's. We will often roll off the 25hz & down w/ eq. - for music that really low stuff just sucks up power and we compromise those really low lows for better amplifier performance.

It seems like you've got plenty of power. I'd say to tune the cabs to 25 for theatre stuff ("to 'feel' the earth move"), and eq out the 25hz and down when listening to music. Tune the 25hz eq 'by ear' to the recording and type of music your listening to.


Bill

maxwedge
01-20-2004, 09:15 AM
Thanks Bill,

I think I'll just tune for 25hz as the slope in BB6P is nice and smooth at that tunning. I can always shorten the vents to go higher if I don't like it.
Yeah, I think I have enough power....2 Hafler 500's for the 18's and 12's.:)

Scott

4313B
01-20-2004, 09:48 AM
You could whip up some "25 Hz" ducts and some "30 Hz" ducts and see which you preferred in your environment.

Don't forget that for HT you can pop in a +6 dB bump filter set to the same tuning frequency as the enclosure to increase VLF. It might not sound quite "right" when playing back recordings of certain musical instruments but it can sound damn fine for DVD playback ;)

I often place a piece of 3/4" or 1" MDF on the inside of the baffle, cut to the outside diameter of the port, so I can swap out duct lengths until I "get it right" for a specific environment. Then I measure Fb to see what it really comes out to be.

backbeat2000
01-20-2004, 11:06 AM
I like Giskard's idea. We have 4" round duct's and we're thinking about creating some thin cardboard 'sleeves' to insert in the ducts and play around with changing the length. With a tone generator and Db meter we figure we can do rough measurements along with 'ear training' .

What do you guys think?

maxwedge
01-20-2004, 09:49 PM
I've got the baffle glued on and the spk and port holes cut out and I've still got another to build, but at least all the pannels are already cut out. :)
Anyway about the ports....after looking around all the local hardware stores and on line I gave up on a cheep solution and bought these 4" flaired units :http://www.psp-inc.com/images/4%20x%2017%20port.jpg . I couldn't find anything else that was long enough! I need to use at least 3 of these and because of the way I designed my box I can only mount 2, to the side of the dox box. I had to mount one on the rear....I've read that this isn't a problem. I'm stuck to using these as I've already cut the holes and the flair diameter is 7". They are fairly long so I should have enough length to play with.

Good news is the 1st cabinet should be operational by saturday :cool:

maxwedge
01-20-2004, 10:06 PM
I'm having a bit of a conflict about what the JBL enclosure guide and BB6P says about the tuning for the 2202. BB6P wants much bigger ports than JBL for tuning to 80hz...what do you think? I havent cut any holes in the dog box yet.
http://www.jblpro.com/pub/manuals/enclgde.pdf

Heres the dog box dimensions

maxwedge
01-20-2004, 10:09 PM
If I go with 1 vent then it's around 6".....seems kind of large to me.:confused: JBL says one 4.2" in a 3/4" baffle.

Scott

4313B
01-21-2004, 07:12 AM
Yeah I noticed that...

I guess you'll just have to try the easiest one first and measure the actual tuning frequency. I don't have any 1.5 cubic foot enclosures laying about or I'd just test it real quick for you.

maxwedge
01-21-2004, 09:09 AM
I just had a bright idea!:banghead: I'll just make a test box of the same dimensions as my dog box and cut my ports after testing, lol. Won't be a problem fitting my router because I made the baffle with a flush face. I'm gonna get both box's built and then work on this aspect then.

Thanks,
Scott

maxwedge
01-23-2004, 01:23 PM
This is my 1st day off from work and gitting off to a slow start:cooked:. Got a full mockup picture here and I'm off to buy materials for the base, so I hope to get it useable by tomorrow. :)

maxwedge
01-26-2004, 10:36 AM
Well I got the left one in place and I tell you what...with a 25-40hz input from the RTA, at near my haflers max output, the whole house shakes!:D The doors, walls, windows and my TV's dust screen rattle big time. But the box is still. :cool: At normal loud volumes there arn't many rattles. I just set the ports to what BB6P said for 25hz and typical fill (weather or not I used typical fill???) and I'm just going to leave it for now because it really sounds great! :)

Right now I've got the crossovers set to about 200/1200 but I'll fine tune latter with the RTA. I know the placement isn't the best but I'm thinking that maybe I'm getting a deep bass increase (+6db ?? guess?) being in the corner. Maybe this will go well with a 25hz tunning. Any ideas on this?

Scott

4313B
01-26-2004, 10:39 AM
Yes, I've used the 2242H in corners to great effect. They seem to like the boundary reinforcement. Let us know what happens when you get the second one up and running :)

*****

BTW, have you read this? 4645C (http://www.jblpro.com/pub/cinema/4645c.pdf)
It has some response curves on the back showing various boundary reinforcement responses.

Hofmannhp
01-26-2004, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by maxwedge

Right now I've got the crossovers set to about 200/1200 but I'll fine tune latter with the RTA. I know the placement isn't the best but I'm thinking that maybe I'm getting a deep base increase (+6db ?? guess?) being in the corner. Maybe this will go well with a 25hz tunning. Any ideas on this?

Scott

Hi Scott,

which port dimensions do you use?

2 x 4"? depht?

HP

maxwedge
01-26-2004, 06:20 PM
Origginally posted by Hofmannhp
Hi Scott,

which port dimensions do you use?

2 x 4"? depht?

HP
Hi HP,
There's a port in the rear so theres 3. The reason one is in the rear is because I used flaired ports, and the outside diameter of flair's flange is 7", so I couldn't fit 3 on the front. The 3rd one was too close to the 18 and would have weakened the baffle.

The tubes are 4" diameter and 13.15" useful length.

The box has 8.8 cu ft after dog box and bracing taken out of the total.

I lined most of the inside with 2" of R16 fiberglass.

One little note about the fiberglass that a freind tipped onto me:idea:....you know you're not supposed to breath the stuff, so you cover the inside ends of the vent tubes with ladys nylon stockings. They work as a filter and don't block the air flow. Just cut a peice out and strech it over the end. Then put a rubber band on to hold it. Had the wife buy me some so I didn't have to use her's.:D

maxwedge
01-26-2004, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by Giskard
Let us know what happens when you get the second one up and running:)
I got another to do? Shoot I just cleaned up the garage! :banghead: I should have made 1 box with 2 2242h's lol!:nutz: I'll get right on it....had to reorganize. It was getting pretty messy!

BTW, have you read this? 4645C
It has some response curves on the back showing various boundary reinforcement responses.
Yeah I've looked at those but I really don't get them.:confused:
I don't understand what they mean by 1pie, 2pie and 4pie

Scott

4313B
01-26-2004, 06:43 PM
"I don't understand what they mean by 1pie, 2pie and 4pie"

They read "Little Jack Horner" too many times before bed when they were tots. ;)



I'm lazy so here's something you can read that might help :) - Pies in Corners (http://www.trueaudio.com/st_spcs1.htm)

maxwedge
01-26-2004, 07:43 PM
Ah yes, :) I knew about this but didn't get (or remember?) the symbols. Ah...and I guess it's pi and not pie:rolleyes: ...gotta put the kids books down.

thanks:)

jkc
01-28-2004, 04:14 AM
I recently built almost the same bottom end as you.
I used 18dB/octave active filters at 120 Hz and 1.2Khz
The Sub has a 1Kw amp and the 12" a 350 Watt amp which clips first.
I use a dedicated active equaliser built into the crossover on the 12" to get around the problem of a climbing frequency response.
The 12" is in a 0.8 Cubic foot vented enclosure tuned to 85Hz.

If look at this more you start to think about a 15" to 300 Hz and a 10" to 1.2K.
Any way the top is a Altec 288K on DDS Wave guides with slots on top.
When I first turned it on it sounded awful on voice but once I took it all outside and ran it at full power for a while it sounded much better. very nice indeed.

the 15" and 10" are in the garage.

Hofmannhp
02-09-2004, 10:36 AM
Hi All,

they've done the first realistic sound with music instead of pink noise and sine waves.
I used an active crossover (Rane AC23) and THEY SOUND GREAT.

In the pic you see their "non living room" design with new to paint lens and without grille.

HP

boputnam
02-11-2004, 08:37 AM
Hey, HP...

Those are real beauties! :yes:

maxwedge
02-18-2004, 05:03 AM
Lookin good:cheers:

maxwedge
02-19-2004, 07:35 PM
Got 2 up and running and they really sound nice. I don't really care for the round grills but they'll do (have 2 cats that like to scratch things!!) untill I get some covering on them. I need to fine tune them but I'm in no big hurry cause I need to get some smaller surround speakers built and then I'll tune 'em up.:)

EDIT: I just noticed you can't really see those grills in this picture, but their there.

Hofmannhp
02-19-2004, 11:29 PM
Hi Scott,

they look great......what do you use for high frequencies? I cannot see any HF drivers.
Do you drive them active or passive? and which Xover frequencies do you use?

regards
HP

PS: the badges are here since yesterday.....was very fast...thanks again. They fit perfectly to my grilles in a reserved way. I glue them on their backplane and press a small metall bracket on the pin. This is very easy cause I use a perforated sheet metal as grille.
I will post a pic when they're ready.

maxwedge
02-20-2004, 04:43 AM
HI HP,

You mean U HF? Don't have any yet....those are 2445's on top and they go fairly high. I haven't played with my RTA yet and fine tuned them....just playing by ear. They are crossed over at 200 and 1200 for now with a Rane ac23....I'm goona do some more adjustments this week end.

Glad you got the badges so quick.:)

Scott

maxwedge
02-08-2006, 07:19 PM
Still not done but now theres some 2404's on top.:)
Sub 1500's in the center ...5cu ft sealed box
On the sides....2242's/2202's/2385 horns and 2445 drivers/2404h UHF

Flodstroem
02-09-2006, 01:31 AM
Ive been following this thread with interests from start and If you didnt thought of it, you gave me a tip for an Apple-Mac loudspeaker designing software in here :idea:


I'm lazy so here's something you can read that might help - Pies in Corners

About MacSpeakerz
Loudspeaker Design Software for Macintosh: :applaud:

http://www.trueaudio.com/mac_abt1.htm

They also have e demo which I would like to try before buying a full version. :thmbsup:

Do you know anything about this software product (Windows or Mac version doesnt matter)?

Regards

maxwedge
02-09-2006, 08:59 AM
Ive been following this thread with interests from start and If you didnt thought of it, you gave me a tip for an Apple-Mac loudspeaker designing software in here :idea:



About MacSpeakerz
Loudspeaker Design Software for Macintosh: :applaud:

http://www.trueaudio.com/mac_abt1.htm

They also have e demo which I would like to try before buying a full version. :thmbsup:

Do you know anything about this software product (Windows or Mac version doesnt matter)?

Regards
I have their TrueRTA level 4 software and like it but I'm happy with BB6P and haven't tried True Audio's speaker software.

JuniorJBL
02-09-2006, 09:03 AM
I have their TrueRTA level 4 software and like it but I'm happy with BB6P and haven't tried True Audio's speaker software.

If you are using BB6P than this software would be a step (or 2) down. I would not waste your money!!

maxwedge
02-10-2006, 06:16 PM
If you are using BB6P than this software would be a step (or 2) down. I would not waste your money!!
I wasn't looking at, Flodstroem was.;) I think he needs something that works with a mac and BB6P doesn't.

hjames
02-10-2006, 08:31 PM
Ive been following this thread with interests from start and If you didnt thought of it, you gave me a tip for an Apple-Mac loudspeaker designing software in here :idea:

About MacSpeakerz
Loudspeaker Design Software for Macintosh: :applaud:

http://www.trueaudio.com/mac_abt1.htm

They also have a demo which I would try before buying a full version. :thmbsup:

Do you know anything about this software product (Windows or Mac version doesnt matter)?

Regards

I just dloaded it, but it started loading the Mac Classic OS, so I quit the demo right away.
The current Mac OSX is 10.4.4 and Apple is moving to Intel platform, anything that has to run in OS 9.x (classic) is generations old now.
I've got a dual CPU G4 (waiting for the new Intel Powermacs to arrive),
but I certainly wouldn't buy anything now that is pre-OSX.
But thanks for the info - it WAS a great idea ... sigh ...

Heather

Mr. Widget
02-10-2006, 10:32 PM
For Mac people, the best solution is to get a POS windows box and use it for audio applications. I prefer Macs myself, but have a couple of windows boxes for various audio software packages. The best audio software simply isn't available for Macs. The good news is that a real dog machine will run most of the audio applications just fine.


Widget

Flodstroem
02-11-2006, 06:31 AM
Hi and thanks for comments

I just dloaded it, but it started loading the Mac Classic OS, so I quit the demo right away.
The current Mac OSX is 10.4.4 and Apple is moving to Intel platform, anything that has to run in OS 9.x (classic) is generations old now.
I've got a dual CPU G4 (waiting for the new Intel Powermacs to arrive),
but I certainly wouldn't buy anything now that is pre-OSX.
But thanks for the info - it WAS a great idea ... sigh ...

Heather

yes I did to, and mine also started the Classics (OS 9....) I also work on OS 10.4.4 so this was disappointing :biting:

I wrote to the developer and the answer was: they will not and never make an OS 10.x.x. version. So......this program is currently by now all to old. Not a program for the future. :banghead:

Regards

loach71
02-12-2006, 09:02 AM
Hello HP,
I use Rane (http://www.rane.com/ac23b.html) active crossovers, so I can try any crossover points I like. They have 24db slopes and delays for the drivers to aline them electronicaly.

I agree with you "440". I gave up winding inductors for passive crossovers years ago. Way too labor intensive for my liking. I designed and built my own 4th order, equal component Sallen & Key topology active filters seven years ago. Tuning the system is now a breeze - I just use a calibrated microphone and a real-time analyzer, and change the crossover points and gain levels on the filters to get my rough response curve. I then use my 1/3 octave equalizers to get the final response curve.
;)

maxwedge
12-25-2008, 10:47 PM
I going to bump my old thread, I guess because I'm really trying to straighten my system out and it's about time! You see I go through periods, like the weather, where I get into one hobby for awhile and then on to another and so on. Well I'm back to this!:)

First off, I still haven't finished the cabinets:banghead:. But I have re tuned them from 24hz to 31hz (for the better IMO). Haven't covered them because 1) lots of work 2) Their heavy 3) I made them out of partical board and not mdf(not happy about it!) and 4) They sound really nice and can't live without the sound they put out every day, LOL!:blink:

I have made some upgrades. Dumped the 2202s for brand new 2206Hs just this week and have 2404s on top now with the 2445s connected to 2385 horns instead of the 2380s I ran before. Narrower pattern fits the room better.

Dumped a bunch of Rane analog crossovers for a Rane AC24 and just picked up another Hafler (P1500 TransNova) for the 2404s. It's sounding nice!:)

Heres a pic of the rt side, with my sub 1500s.:bouncy:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j7/maxwedge572/Audio/Rightside.jpg

Mr. Widget
12-26-2008, 02:22 PM
Well I'm back to this!:)Cool... looks like you need a little more sub action. :D


Widget

evans224
12-26-2008, 11:28 PM
Do the cats actually stay put on the cabs? I'd think they would bounce off. BTW, I'm in Concord as well-would love to hear the setup some day!

maxwedge
12-27-2008, 07:51 AM
Cool... looks like you need a little more sub action. :D


Widget
:applaud:You have some more of the sub1500s stashed some where?:D
I think I'd be better off with some 2245s but I'm on a spending hold for now. I just went on a run of new stuff.


Do the cats actually stay put on the cabs? I'd think they would bounce off. BTW, I'm in Concord as well-would love to hear the setup some day!

Believe it or not, they stay in place unless I really crank it up and run 20-30hz tones through the sub. The cabinet is really heavy and sits on rubber feet.
Where are you at in Concord? I'm in Dana Estates behind the Dana Plaza shopping center.

Mr. Widget
12-27-2008, 10:31 AM
I think I'd be better off with some 2245s but I'm on a spending hold for now.It depends... in my opinion if you want to integrate into a four-way like the 4345, then I agree... the 2245 is really hard to beat. However for true sub duty, the Sub1500s in small boxes with a little DSP help will give the 2245 a run for the money and do it in 1/4 the space. I've posted this before, but you may have missed it while you were tending to other interests... you might consider putting a Velodyne SMS-1 in front of your Sub1500s.


Widget

evans224
12-27-2008, 10:57 AM
Howdy neighbor! I'm in Dana also. I'll send PM

maxwedge
12-27-2008, 11:17 AM
Howdy neighbor! I'm in Dana also. I'll send PM
Small world, LOL.

maxwedge
12-27-2008, 12:12 PM
It depends... in my opinion if you want to integrate into a four-way like the 4345, then I agree... the 2245 is really hard to beat. However for true sub duty, the Sub1500s in small boxes with a little DSP help will give the 2245 a run for the money and do it in 1/4 the space. I've posted this before, but you may have missed it while you were tending to other interests... you might consider putting a Velodyne SMS-1 in front of your Sub1500s.


Widget
That Velodyne looks interesting. I'm running no eq on anything right now and it sounds really good. I run a Yamaha HT receiver and have the sub1500s low pass set at 90hz right now. Unfortunately this receiver only has a choice of 24db per octave. A while back Giskard had suggested a B212 filter with the closed box sub1500s and one day I'm going to put one together, or try and duplicate it electronically. I think I get good coupling between the 2242 and sub1500s.:)