Making an audio system... Please help!!!!!!!!! [Archive]

Nightbrace

02-05-2007, 01:20 AM

Nothing really, Altec has its own sound. Altec 14's run around $300-$500 a pair, about the same for the Altec 15's. In this price range you won't find any speaker that sounds as good. JBL's can be had for a little cheaper, but they won't sound "quite" the same, but similiar and yes much better than any offerings under $500.. I'd HIGHLY recommend the JBL L36's, they can be bought for $200-$300, there are some "poor man's" Altecs on audio.net, but they're called that for a reason, they are poor sounding speakers, but for $100 they might be worth a shot.
Here's a link, http://members.aol.com/KDresch/sd2506.html But you need 5 of them RIGHT?.

If $500 is TOO much for you to spend on a pair of speakers, then you cannot really expect "score" something really great unless you happen to find a great deal somewhere. And you'll be spending well over a $1000 for all 5. A lot of people have been finding great deals on Craigslist, but I wouldn't count on it. But you could get lucky. But probably not 5 speakers.

I currently have for sale my old Large Adevent speakers which I used for a 5.1 set-up. They are all in nice conditon and have real walnut wood veneer, shipping would kill you though, but I'm not terribly far if you were wanting to pick them up. I have a subwoofer to go with them as well. Bought them for my parents to use for this very purpose. All the people that heard these speakers have raved about them. Me inculded, they are fantastic. The sound is different as compared to the Altecs. These are New England speakers, but that doesn't mean they sound bad. On the contrary, they are excellent sounding speakers for the money. They sell for $300-$400 a pair on Ebay in the condition they are in. One speaker needs a new crossover, but the rest are 100% functional with new foams. All the grills are in excellent condition.

I'd accept $700 for all 5. And would make you a GREAT deal on the subwoofer if you came and picked them all up... The subwoofer is a BRAND NEW HSU VTF-2. It cost $399 direct from the factory. I'd probably accept $900 for all 5 speakers and the subwoofer... There's no set-up anywhere at this price point with better sound.. I can assure you of that.. I KNOW you'll be very happy with them....

If you are able to build your own cabinets I'd highly recommend Audio Nirvana full range drivers, while they won't sound the same as the Altec's they will outperform them in almost everyway. The bass won't be quite as powerful or "boomy", but very satisfying and very realistic. I think you'll be pleased with them.. I for one would prefer them over the Altec 15's, and only the Altec 19's would sound better.

Below is a link the raw drivers, they start at $118 for a pair of the 8" Nirvanas. Don't bother with the 6.5"ers. The Super 8's are better, the 10's and 12's better still. I have heard these in person and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised if you are into the Altec as the sound is similiar. Don't let the fact that they are full range drivers fool you. Plenty of GREAT speaker systems only use 1 driver. He is a good friend of mine, and actually makes no money on the actual drivers, its the cabinets that he charges a little extra for. If your good at building cabinets than he's your man..

http://www.nirvanaspeakers.com/nirvana.html

Of course, I'd rather just sell you my speakers, but its not a big deal, its better for you know all the BEST options.. Let me know if you are interested in the Advents. They will be going on Ebay soon.. They are the original Large Advents not the cheaper 80's version.. The last pair I sold on Ebay went for over $500, so I'm not too worried if you're not interested in them, just thought I would offer them to you..

What receiver are you planning on using?

Zilch

02-05-2007, 02:02 AM

there are some "poor man's" Altecs on audio.net, but they're called that for a reason, they are poor sounding speakers, but for $100 they might be worth a shot.The link you provide promotes them as "Poor Man's Klipsch Heresys," actually.

I must say, as self-proclaimed Lansing Heritage Goodwill Ambassador with an Electro-Voice 15TRX avatar, you're certainly pissing off the Zilchster tonight, promoting junk Magnavox and Audio Nirvana ("Will outperform [Altecs] in almost every way....") for pals, and gratuitously hawking your own Adevent [sic] and HSU system in response to Grant's Altec equivalent inquiry.

[A new low in transparency here.... :banghead: ]

Progneta

02-05-2007, 07:19 AM

Right now my father is powering all of his altec gear with a cheap 5.1 Koss surround sound unit we purchased at Sears and it sounds just fantastic! I am looking for speakers that can sound wonderful just like that Altecs when powered by this Koss unit.

Where are you from?

Nothing really, Altec has its own sound. Altec 14's run around $300-$500 a pair, about the same for the Altec 15's. In this price range you won't find any speaker that sounds as good. JBL's can be had for a little cheaper, but they won't sound "quite" the same, but similiar and yes much better than any offerings under $500.. I'd HIGHLY recommend the JBL L36's, they can be bought for $200-$300, there are some "poor man's" Altecs on audio.net, but they're called that for a reason, they are poor sounding speakers, but for $100 they might be worth a shot.
Here's a link, http://members.aol.com/KDresch/sd2506.html But you need 5 of them RIGHT?.

If $500 is TOO much for you to spend on a pair of speakers, then you cannot really expect "score" something really great unless you happen to find a great deal somewhere. And you'll be spending well over a $1000 for all 5. A lot of people have been finding great deals on Craigslist, but I wouldn't count on it. But you could get lucky. But probably not 5 speakers.

I currently have for sale my old Large Adevent speakers which I used for a 5.1 set-up. They are all in nice conditon and have real walnut wood veneer, shipping would kill you though, but I'm not terribly far if you were wanting to pick them up. I have a subwoofer to go with them as well. Bought them for my parents to use for this very purpose. All the people that heard these speakers have raved about them. Me inculded, they are fantastic. The sound is different as compared to the Altecs. These are New England speakers, but that doesn't mean they sound bad. On the contrary, they are excellent sounding speakers for the money. They sell for $300-$400 a pair on Ebay in the condition they are in. One speaker needs a new crossover, but the rest are 100% functional with new foams. All the grills are in excellent condition.

I'd accept $700 for all 5. And would make you a GREAT deal on the subwoofer if you came and picked them all up... The subwoofer is a BRAND NEW HSU VTF-2. It cost $399 direct from the factory. I'd probably accept $900 for all 5 speakers and the subwoofer... There's no set-up anywhere at this price point with better sound.. I can assure you of that.. I KNOW you'll be very happy with them....

If you are able to build your own cabinets I'd highly recommend Audio Nirvana full range drivers, while they won't sound the same as the Altec's they will outperform them in almost everyway. The bass won't be quite as powerful or "boomy", but very satisfying and very realistic. I think you'll be pleased with them.. I for one would prefer them over the Altec 15's, and only the Altec 19's would sound better.

Below is a link the raw drivers, they start at $118 for a pair of the 8" Nirvanas. Don't bother with the 6.5"ers. The Super 8's are better, the 10's and 12's better still. I have heard these in person and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised if you are into the Altec as the sound is similiar. Don't let the fact that they are full range drivers fool you. Plenty of GREAT speaker systems only use 1 driver. He is a good friend of mine, and actually makes no money on the actual drivers, its the cabinets that he charges a little extra for. If your good at building cabinets than he's your man..

http://www.nirvanaspeakers.com/nirvana.html

Of course, I'd rather just sell you my speakers, but its not a big deal, its better for you know all the BEST options.. Let me know if you are interested in the Advents. They will be going on Ebay soon.. They are the original Large Advents not the cheaper 80's version.. The last pair I sold on Ebay went for over $500, so I'm not too worried if you're not interested in them, just thought I would offer them to you..

What receiver are you planning on using?

Nightbrace

02-05-2007, 08:23 AM

As it says in my profile, I live in Urbana, IL.. The Advents are at my parents house in St. Joseph, IL about 100 miles from Indianapolis, maybe we could meet halfway or something if your interested.

I am amazed to hear that a Koss receiver sounds so good, but the speakers are MUCH more important than the amplifier. As long as there are 50 REAL (RMS) watts per channel, I think you should be fine. The subwoofer is not necessary as the Advents make good bass, but as anyone with a good Home Theater system will tell you, a good quality sub is needed for explosions etc.. It just adds a whole different dimension. And makes the home theater system "come together" so to speak. HSU make world class subwoofers, and for the money no better sub can be bought.. It works equally good for both music and home theater.

The Nirvanas will sound better, but you will need to build cabinets to make them cost feasible and unless you have really good skills, you will be hard pressed to make a more beautiful cabinet than the Advents. Wood and wood veneer is expensive, as the expense of the cabinets designed for the Nirvana's indicate. The AT COST price on the 2.5's are $600 a pair.. Not to mention shipping etc. Building good quality cabinets with furniture grade wood veneers' costs a lot of money.. And for you to build 5 cabinets will cost about $500 in just materials to get anything near the quality of the Advents.

If you like the Altec sound, what I'd recommend is to find 2 speakers for music and use either the Advents or Niravanas for Home Theater where GREAT speakers like Altec are not as important... You will find no better Altec than the Altec 19. True Hi-fidelity sound will not be possible with the Koss receiver for 2 channel sound reproduction. The good news is that MOST 70's receivers, most notably Pioneer and Marantz, will give you high fidelity sound at a VERY modest cost.. And for now you can get by with a modest Sony CD player... (A must for great sound as most DVD player do not do music very well)

If you just want something for movies what you are contemplating sounds ok as long as you are happy with the Koss receiver. I personally have never believed in spending A LOT of money on the receiver for Home Theater as the speakers make MUCH more of a difference, and with movies critcal listening is not as important, just merely to give you a "sense" of the action.. 5.1 or 6.1 does this adequately enough with even modest speakers like the Advents, no need to spend more unless your nuts about AWESOME theater sound.. Which is why I bought them for my parents, because I KNEW that it would be better than anything out there today at a fraction of the cost. That being said, the Altecs would most definitely be an upgrade, but as you said more expensive.

Let me know your intentions, I can send you some pics of the Advents if needed. They are not PERFECT< but VERY nice. With a light sanding with 220 grit sandpaper and coat of Tung oil they would look phenomenal, but as is they are very presentable with no gouges or veneer issues. The person I bought them from actually owned 15 pairs of these speakers and I picked the best 5.. The pair I sold on Ebay for $500 were comparable in condition... I would not want to deal with shipping these to you, but as I said, could meet you halfway if you were truly interested. I guess I could ship them, but it would cost a TON.

I also have a set of great sounding HH Scott speakers that I am doing nothing with that would be great to keep for an extra room or as rear speakers in a 7.1 set-up later on. They are not worth anything really, but they sound very good and are very well made.. If you buy the Advents and sub, I'll throw them in. I mainly have kept them as no one would pay me anything for them and its not worth the effort to sell a set of speakers nobody wants, I've actually offered to give them away to numerous friends to no avail... I actually think they are a bit better sounding than the Advents but with a little less bass as they are smaller cabinets. (which would make them perfect as rear channels as they are smaller and more convenient)

If you are interested in a nice hi-fi 70's receiver and a nice sounding inexpensive CD player I can aid you with that as well.. You can find a GREAT receiver for under $100 and an adequate Sony CD player with MUCH higher sound quality than a consumer DVD for under $50... As I said keeping movies and music separate is the easiest and cheapest way to have the best of both worlds. Of course as with anything, there are MUCH better options, but your budget seems to be a MAJOR concern... If I were you, again not that I am trying to sell the Advents, I would intially start with the Advents for the price, and if you want to upgrade to something better, you can always sell them easily on Ebay. And if you love the cabinets, you can mount 10" Super Audio Nirvanas in these cabs which would be better than even the Altecs..

Robh3606

02-05-2007, 08:44 AM

What's your budget??

Rob:)

Nightbrace

02-05-2007, 09:05 AM

The link you provide promotes them as "Poor Man's Klipsch Heresys," actually.

I must say, as self-proclaimed Lansing Heritage Goodwill Ambassador with an Electro-Voice 15TRX avatar, you're certainly pissing off the Zilchster tonight, promoting junk Magnavox and Audio Nirvana ("Will outperform [Altecs] in almost every way....") for pals, and gratuitously hawking your own Adevent [sic] and HSU system in response to Grant's Altec equivalent inquiry.

[A new low in transparency here.... :banghead: ]

Zilch, cost seems to be his BIGGEST concern, and its unlikely that he can purchase anything to rival his father's Altec 15's for anywhere near the price of these speakers. If you read through the thread again, I recommended the Magnavox as something VERY CHEAP to try as I assumed he was wanting to spend about $100 a pair.. And yes I have heard AudioNirvanas personally and in many ways they sound better than the Altec 15's.. The bass is not as good,. but they do work very well in a Home Theater set-up with a subwoofer as sattelites and are a great "cheap" alternative for someone wanting to build their own cabinets.

Unfortunately, I don't know of any JBL/ALtec product thats decent that can be bought in this member's price range, do you? I recommended the JBL L36's to him, but even those may be too expensive at about $200 a pair. And whats he's propsing, to duplicate his father's ALtec 15's or building something comparable with Altec drivers will be MUCH too costly unless he gets real lucky finding some really cheap sets.

And to defend myself, the Advents and HSU were not bought for me, but for my parents, and they have decided to go a different route, not because of the sound, but because physically they are too big. I KNOW that there are MUCH BETTER alternatives out there, but for the money I just can't think of anything.

If you read through the response again,. I said that the Advents will sound nothing like the Altecs, but thought I'd mention them before offering them for sale on Ebay. I still think that for the money that he'd be hard pressed to find something that sounds better... and much better than NEW speakers costing the same...

I hope that there is a better Altec/JBL alternative out there that I haven't thought of for his price point.. And I don't see how its possible to find 5 ALtec 15's or the drivers for less than $700 for all 5 speakers, but as I told him there are deals to be found on Craigslist..

And I take offense that I am trying to dump crap on him.. I mentioned the Magnavox's as they are horn speakers, I have no affiliation with this website in anyway, and for what its worth he did list them as "poor-mans" Altecs at one point, seems as if someone emailed him and told him to change it :) (THAT WAS ME!) It seems that he took my advice.

Unfortunately his price point dictates everything. I guess I may be reading a different thread, but of all the Altec/JBL speakers I have heard or know about, I know of none that will sound better than these modest Advents (and of course much different and poorer sounding as compared to the Altec 15's) for the price. I can only assume that the member will understand this from my post.

Even the mini-monitors like the L20T's or L15's are bringing over $200 a pair... I sure hope we can find him a better alternative for the money, and I'll be the first to recommend any ALtec/JBL product to suit his needs. Which is why I bought the Advent speakers and HSU sub for my parents. If there was a more economical alternative with better sound I would have definately bought it instead. And they look nice and will work decent enough for Home Theater for an average person. The Advents in no way shape or form an "audiophile" speaker intended for critical listening, but I think most will agree that for the money they are hard to beat for the average person and will sound better than just about anything "new" for the same price.

Again, nowhere anywhere did I say that the Advents will sound anything like the Altecs.. nothing could be further from the truth. And I mentioned several times that there are BETTER alternatives. I think its obvious that I should not have mentioned them. By no means did I mention them for any monetary gain and I KNOW I can sell them for plenty more than I am offering them to him for. It would just be nice to see someone use them for the same purpose I was considering. I know now that it was wrong to recommend anything but Altec or JBL in the open forums, and it was wrong to do so... I am making it to easy for you guys.

Lets find something for this guy that Altec/JBL, and I'll just dump off those Advents on Ebay :). As I think its clear that he'd rather have Altecs. Trust me if I had 5 Altec 15's sitting here, I'd love to see them go to him.. The only "cheap" JBL/Altec speakers that I can think of that will be "similiar" are the JBL decade series. Any L16, L26 or L36. L19's would work ok too. But they all sell for $150-$400 a pair. And I think he is in "need' of the Altec horn speaker sound, I know of no better deal than the ALtec 15's or 14's that his father already owns and please correct me if I'm wrong, but he mentioned VERY CLEARLY that they are MUCH TOO expensive.

In regards to the EV's, they may sound like crap to you, but I like them, and I just bought them and am actually listening to them now, I think they are fantastic, even that said, I still like my Altec 19's better :). Whatever I listen to I put as my avatar, even if its not JBL. And I am sorry if you took it as yet another personal insult.. Thats just not the case. I can't listen to 2 pairs of speakers at the same time now can I?

Soon my EN3's will be up again as my avatar, but with the proper drivers, I think my avatar was WORSE with Allied drivers mounted in EN3 cabs, now don't you? BTW< I am in the process of designing and building custom "110Ti" speakers modeled after the 250Ti styling wise. Would those make a better avatar? And I found out that those .25 mH inductors were totally wrong, I need to either find someone with original transformers or take them from a N65 network and then I'm good to go!

Nightbrace

02-05-2007, 09:11 AM

What's your budget??

Rob:)

While he doesn't give a clear figure, I think its safe to say that even the modest Advents I offered to him are much to expensive.. Which is why I mentioned them in the first place as I think that they would be a "decent" alternative for the money. Unless its possible to get this guy 5 Altec 14's or 15's for under $700? :).

Anyone near him with any Altec 14's or 15's to get him started??

Maybe he could buy a pair at a time as his budget will allow?

Zilch

02-05-2007, 10:18 AM

I'm sorry, Nightbrace, but I have no more disposable resources available to squander on someone obviously lacking the full measure of good sense God vested in a single Goldfish cracker....

SEAWOLF97

02-05-2007, 10:43 AM

NB

dont take this the wrong way....you seem a smart guy with lots to contribute , BUT , also seem a little "long winded" and give the impression of trying too hard to impress. IMHO. :blink:

4313B

02-05-2007, 12:09 PM

seem a little "long winded" and give the impression of trying too hard to impressSuspiciously so... like a sock-puppet of another former member maybe... there can't possibly be more than one can there?

Nightbrace

02-05-2007, 12:32 PM

Suspiciously so... like a sock-puppet of another former member maybe... there can't possibly be more than one can there?

Not this again, there's only one Nightbrace, and yes I do tend to talk too long.. And on some wild tangents nonetheless. Just trying too much to impress I guess, to put it politely to "explain" rather than tell to validate my responses in fear of getting mocked. I guess my explanations are now fodder for even more mocking, so I guess less IS more :)...

hjames

02-05-2007, 12:33 PM

Suspiciously so... like a sock-puppet of another former member maybe... there can't possibly be more than one can there?

Tempting as it is to consider clones - its probably just echos in the gene pool

Nightbrace

02-05-2007, 12:33 PM

NB

dont take this the wrong way....you seem a smart guy with lots to contribute , BUT , also seem a little "long winded" and give the impression of trying too hard to impress. IMHO. :blink:

just trying to redeem myself I guess when I make comments I should have recanted in the first place :).. And maybe sometimes to defend my own ignorance :). :blah:

4313B

02-05-2007, 12:58 PM

Tempting as it is to consider clones - its probably just echos in the gene poolI suspect you are right.

Nightbrace

02-05-2007, 02:57 PM

Why does everyone keep insisting that Storm and I are the same person.. MODERATORS<<< Can you please end this senseless debate with a confirmation that Storm and I are 2 different people...

opimax

02-05-2007, 03:50 PM

OK, I can't stop myself. NB just stop posting and start reading again. I find that If i am quiet the nice people here won't know how ignorant I really am and will help me w/my JBLs...so I keep my mouth quiet here (well much more that is realized). There are other places whereI am more vocal , some people even enjoy it BUT NOT HERE.

If you want to greet people, at a site, make sure you were asked to or start your own site where you can be in charge of how it your site is run.

Pardon me if I stepped on some toes as far as manners or personal attacks go...

Mark

1 more thing. just in case you don't realize this, most people don't realy know or care if you and Storm are the same person but think of why that is being said

hjames

02-05-2007, 04:12 PM

Why does everyone keep insisting that Storm and I are the same person.. MODERATORS<<< Can you please end this senseless debate with a confirmation that Storm and I are 2 different people...

Well, I am not "everybody" and I said EXACTLY this ...

Tempting as it is to consider clones - its probably just echos in the gene pool

Translation:
What that means is that although some might consider you the same,
its more likely that you are like peas in a pod - not the same but similar ...
... sheesh!

Progneta

02-05-2007, 05:19 PM

Actually I need 4 woofers and four drivers as my father is giving me one of his extra altec 15's, which i can use as my subwoofer... only if I could get my hands on his Jim Lansing Signatures!! :)

Nightbrace: Do you have pictures of the advents? Also, how do the nirvana's sounds. I have always used horns as that is what I use when I DJ.

While he doesn't give a clear figure, I think its safe to say that even the modest Advents I offered to him are much to expensive.. Which is why I mentioned them in the first place as I think that they would be a "decent" alternative for the money. Unless its possible to get this guy 5 Altec 14's or 15's for under $700? :).

Anyone near him with any Altec 14's or 15's to get him started??

Maybe he could buy a pair at a time as his budget will allow?

Zilch

02-05-2007, 05:47 PM

Progneta: You need to tell us what your budget is, and the intended use.

The forum can then propose alternatives for you, using JBL and/or Altec.

There's a damn good 90° x 50° JBL horn (a Progressive Transition waveguide, actually) available for $10 apiece, for example:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=132152#post132152

Scroll down there to see it mounted in cabinets.

When you say your father is giving you one of his Altec 15s, is that a Model 15 or a 15" driver?

I'm not seeing making 5.1 outta four speakers plus either.... :dont-know

Progneta

02-05-2007, 06:08 PM

My intended use is to for my surround system, similar to my fathers. My fathers altecs sound just awsome with the crummy koss 5.1 surround dvd player. My budget would vary depending on the quality of speakers. Lets start around 4-$500.00. My all time favorites are Altec and JBL

Grant

I actually only need (4) 2 way systems as the fifth is only a subwoofer

Zilch

02-05-2007, 06:18 PM

My budget would vary depending on the quality of speakers. Lets start around 4-$500.00. My all time favorites are Altec and JBLIs that per speaker or for the entire system?

I actually only need (4) 2 way systems as the fifth is only a subwooferNo center channel?

Audiobeer

02-05-2007, 08:18 PM

Deja Vu. This scenerio has gon on time and time again.

hjames

02-05-2007, 08:27 PM

My intended use is to for my surround system, similar to my fathers. My fathers altecs sound just awesome with the crummy koss 5.1 surround dvd player. My budget would vary depending on the quality of speakers. Lets start around 4-$500.00. My all time favorites are Altec and JBL

Grant

I actually only need (4) 2 way systems as the fifth is only a subwoofer

Frankly, you won't get 4 of anything that sounds like JBL or Altec for $400-500.
Either get a better budget, change your plans or get used to cheaper sounds.

Its the high end speakers that let a cheapo DVD player sound good - it doesn't really work the other way around ...

Zilch

02-05-2007, 08:43 PM

Now, now, gang, let's wait for the answer. :scold:

[Leafin' through the Parts Express catalog here for an el-cheapo compression driver.... :p ]

Mr. Widget

02-05-2007, 08:59 PM

My intended use is to for my surround system...

I actually only need (4) 2 way systems as the fifth is only a subwoofer
Since you like the Altec sound, and you are OK with a 4.1 setup, I'd suggest getting some cosmetically challenged JBL L100s... for better or worse they are voiced quite similarly to the Altec 604 studio monitors. If this system is for movie sound tracks, you really only need a pair for the fronts and you can get away with virtually anything in the rears. If you plan on listening to a lot of surround sound music, then you should get 4 L100s. If the cabinets are trashed you should be able to get two pairs of L100s for around $500.

As for your using a single Altec 15" woofer as a sub... certainly wouldn't be my first choice, but if it's free go for it.

Widget

TimG

02-06-2007, 01:08 AM

1) This discussion needs to be slapped. Sorry, but you're not going to get the Altec sound for $500 so start saving your money or sell some things you don't need on your local Craigslist. If you have some tools and can build your own system plan on spending at least $300 for each individual speaker to build something that will rival the Altecs.

2) Vintage Advents are not going to give you the Altec sound. In no way can a whizzer cone woofer compete with a well engineered 15" + compression driver 2-way. Don't even get me started on how ridiculous this comparison is.

3) If $500 is all you have at this time, the best advice that I can give is to start with a 2 channel system and add more speakers as you can afford them rather than settle for 5 channels of crap.

4) Start by scouring all the local Craigslist locations within driving distance of your home for vintage JBL and Altec, there are still people out there who have no idea of the value of some of the things they are selling. Start by searching for Altec, JBL, and gasp! Klipsch.

5) Probably the best available high-end vintage system you can still get at affordable prices is the JBL L100T/L80T. If you can collect 3 pairs of these you will be set, otherwise, keep saving. Don't count on finding working vintage Altec woofers or compression drivers on ebay for less than top dollar. There are already way too many Altec collectors out there driving the prices up. And don't plan on anything from ebay arriving safely if the seller insists he is very good at packing things with newspaper and foam peanuts via UPS.

6) Vintage JBL and Altec gear, in good condition, and at a good price, is a good investment because it retains its resale value. If you buy any other brand of vintage speaker equipment don't plan on being able to resell it if you change your mind and want to try something else. Believe me, this will happen. Again, save your money and don't settle for cheap stuff. Like I keep trying to tell my wife, who is finally starting to grudgingly believe me, if you buy cheap stuff you have to buy it again and again, whereas if you do your research and buy good stuff the first time, it can last for a lifetime. This goes for furniture, tools, audio equipment, kitchen knives, fishing reels...

7) Finally, don't believe anyone who says the obviously crushed dome on their dome tweeters doesn't affect the sound, or that the dome can be replaced very cheaply at Radio Shack, or that they fixed the tear in their woofers with toilet paper and rubber cement and it sounds as good as new. Also, get to know exactly what the drivers in the speakers you choose are supposed to look like and don't settle for something with "replacement" drivers. Oh, and if someone in a white van in the Best Buy parking lot tells you he can make a deal on some high-end speakers, run like hell.

Nightbrace

02-06-2007, 04:23 AM

Actually I need 4 woofers and four drivers as my father is giving me one of his extra altec 15's, which i can use as my subwoofer... only if I could get my hands on his Jim Lansing Signatures!! :)

Nightbrace: Do you have pictures of the advents? Also, how do the nirvana's sounds. I have always used horns as that is what I use when I DJ.

What! your using the Altec 15 as a SUBwoofer?? Now I am TOTALLY confused. The Advents will be MUCH too expensive for you.

The only person in the World that can get you 5 comparable Altec's with a subwoofer for under $400 is Zilch, I recommend talking to him :). I can only hope he can find something out there for you. Maybe there is something, but I can't think of anything under $500 unless 3 Altec 15's suddenly fall out of the sky an into your living room..

I can send my HH scotts to you for $80 to cover the shipping, at least you'll have 2 decent speakers.. Not sure I can find you a better sounding complete speaker system (drivers and cabinets) for you.

Nightbrace

02-06-2007, 04:26 AM

Since you like the Altec sound, and you are OK with a 4.1 setup, I'd suggest getting some cosmetically challenged JBL L100s... for better or worse they are voiced quite similarly to the Altec 604 studio monitors. If this system is for movie sound tracks, you really only need a pair for the fronts and you can get away with virtually anything in the rears. If you plan on listening to a lot of surround sound music, then you should get 4 L100s. If the cabinets are trashed you should be able to get two pairs of L100s for around $500.

As for your using a single Altec 15" woofer as a sub... certainly wouldn't be my first choice, but if it's free go for it.

Widget

I already recommended the JBL L19's, L16's, L26's or L36's, $200 a pair is the MOST he can afford, Not sure these are even possible at that price. But definitely cheaper than the L100's.

Nightbrace

02-06-2007, 04:45 AM

Progenta, I'm officially done commenting, I've concluded that there is NO solution for you for your price range that will replicate the Altec 15's.

Not sure what Zilch is talking about that costs $10, aren't those just horns? Won't he need compression drivers, woofers, and cabinets for the 4.1 set-up he is proposing? Does he think that 4 speakers without a center is 5.1? I don't know. The make-shift subwoofer which he is proposing is preposterous as he obviously has no amp to run it and will probably use the center channel output for it based on what he is considering :banghead:

PROGENTA<< The speaker cabinets will cost MORE to build than the budget you have.. All I can offer is that you buy one set at a time till you save up more money. Any of the suggestions above will work. And the BEST for the money will be any speakers from the Decade series, L16,L26, L36. MUCH cheaper than the L100's.

MY HH Scotts shipped to you for $80 are as good as you can hope for at this price point. 2 channels is OK for movies and better than the 4.1 set-up your proposing with no center channel and a Altec 15 used as a subwoofer...

Why not just buy a CHEAP set of 5 surround speakers for movies with a sub, (these can be bought for under $300 at Best Buy) and save up for a set of Altecs for 2 channel use?

I have 3 Sony speakers I'll GIVE TO YOU< FREE!! One center and 2 rears. Just pay the shipping. I also have a decent RCA subwoofer I bought at radio shack when I was 15 that will work OK for you for home theater. I will need $50 for it plus shipping I paid $300 for it 8 years ago at Circuit City. Its POWERFUL and would work better than the Altec 15 your proposing as it has an internal amp.. Its a 200-watt RMS amp and its a 12" woofer..

In total it would be like $250 for 5 speakers and the sub. Not sure I can offer you much better for this price. I suggest you take them before I change my mind. I will be giving the Scotts to a friend VERY soon.. And taking back the other 2 matching Sony's I lent him to use for now... If you want all 5 of the Same Sony's and the Sub I'd sell for $200 shipped to you.... (The shipping on the sub will cost about $100 as its VERY heavy and would need to be double boxed with 3-4" of foam in order to ship) The Sony's in total will be about $50 to ship...

You can MOST definitely find a GREAT set of speakers for the $300 you have left over like a L100 or L36. And with another $100 your close to getting a set of Altec 14's or 15's. Let me know if this is an option for you.. There are GREAT receivers under $100 out there that will work AWESOME for a 2-channel set-up.. My BEST advice to you is to keep the HT and music systems separate if a budget is your biggest obstacle to achieve decent sound for both movies and music./

Nightbrace

02-06-2007, 04:54 AM

1)
2) Vintage Advents are not going to give you the Altec sound. In no way can a whizzer cone woofer compete with a well engineered 15" + compression driver 2-way. Don't even get me started on how ridiculous this comparison is.

.

I agree, and in no way did I say that the Advents would sound anything like the Altec's in ANYWAY! but for the price, I didn't know what else to think of. And since their not being used I thought I'd offer them to him. I bought them for this exact purpose for my parents, a 5.1 HT system on a budget. I am in no way trying to benefit at all from anything said here as I would make plenty more selling the Advents elsewhere. I put myself out on a limb to help this guy and I know now that I shouldn't have as even the Advents are MUCH too expensive for him.

I mentioned the Nirvana's because at their price point they are "similiar" in the mids-highs when used as sattelites with a great sub compared to the Altec 15's. And especially since he was wanting to build his own cabinets. For $118 a pair, less than $300 for all 5, he'd have better sounding drivers than anything I can think of to be used as sattelittes for HT use. Altec woofers and compression drivers/horns would cost this much for 1 paur of speakers for just the components. The 2-way Altec 15 compression driver/horn woofer's are indeed better overall especially in the bass, but the Nirvanas will be more detailed and more REAL sounding in the midrange than the Altec 15's. And it was WRONG to say that they are BETTER than the Altec's, but I still think that they would be better suited for his application where a budget and the ability to build your own cabinets is what he was wanting..

I have owned both and can honestly say this, take from it what you will. The bass response of the Nirvanas is poor in comparison, but I send all frequencies below 80 Hz to my subwoofer anyways for HT. And its much easier to use a Nirvana as a center channel than to try fitting a Altec 15 on top of your TV :), and better suited to use on top of your end tables or mounted to a wall as rears...

Nightbrace

02-06-2007, 05:26 AM

Heather, I NEVER give up trying to help someone who likes Altec speakers, I have come up with some decent systems with not a lot of money when I didn't have much money.. And with some time and thought we can come up with something for him.. , but he's not willing to make any compromises and therefore I don't know what to do to help him.., And despite that, I am still trying to help.

He has to understand certain things, especially that there are going to be certain trade-offs with any system that he chooses, no matter what the price. He has told me, in not so many words. That $400 is even too much.,.. So I think the alternative I mentioned is decent for the money.. And a bit better than the HT in a box set-ups at Best Buy considering that he already has a receiver that he enjoys.

He could then use the extra money to find a Pioneer receiver like a SX-780 for under $100 and a set of JBL L36's for under $200 with a Sony CD player for under $50 for music, and actually have a decent HT set-up and a decent system for music that will be similiar to the Altec 15's he likes so much.. Then one day when he gets $400-$500 saved up he can sell the JBL L36's and upgrade to the Altec 14's or 15's and be totally happy...

The problem is, he wants 5 Altec 15's and a subwoofer for $400 RIGHT NOW, and he needs to understand that its virtually impossible... But there are alternatives for the time being to have something...

Something decent would be better than nothing at all even if its not Altec/JBL, don't you think?

hjames

02-06-2007, 05:45 AM

The problem is, he wants 5 Altec 15's and a subwoofer for $400 RIGHT NOW, and he needs to understand that its virtually impossible... But there are alternatives for the time being to have something...

Something decent would be better than nothing at all even if its not Altec/JBL, don't you think?

Not virtually impossible - completely impossible -
Say he gets one of thos $100 on sale Sony subs - that leaves $300 for the rest of the system - he's just NOT gonna get even 2 Altecs for a piece of that - well -= maybe COMPUTER speakers - but not REAL Altecs ...

As the Darryl says in "The Castle (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118826/)" - "He's dreamin ..."

Nightbrace

02-06-2007, 05:51 AM

I'm trying, I have a set of Stock L36's I don't use much, but I love them too much to part with them for less than $200, as I'd want to replace and the time and effort to find a nicer pair would be nearly impossible to find for under $200.. But there are "project" L36's being sold for $100-$200 that need woofer surrounds and some cabinet refinishing... And worth looking out for.. If I come across a pair, I'll be sure to send them his way.

I have a ton of extra parts for the L36 as I used them in a 5.1 set-up before my I bought the Nirvanas. Still have 2 extra cabs, networks, mids, tweeters, grill, they just need woofers to be complete.. but the 125A/127A woofers cost over $100 a pair when factoring in the cost of having them refoamed, or buying a set thats already done. Considering that I can sell the tweeters for $60 a pair and the mids for $60, I'd be better off parting them out at this point...

The Pioneer SX-780 is a DC amp, and will be better than the Yamaha with these speakers, a SX-850 has sounded the BEST to me with the L36's amoungst the 70's I've tried (the bass sounded smoother), but the 780 will be $40-$50 cheaper and ultimately better if he decides to get the Altec's where more power is not as necessary and the better woofers and compression drivers like DC circuitry better.

However, I agree that the Yamaha you mentioned would also be great too... But he will think that the KOSS receiver is MUCH BETTER no matter what we tell him, so not sure its worth the effort.

Nightbrace

02-06-2007, 05:56 AM

Not virtually impossible - completely impossible -

Nothing's impossible! Like I said 3 Altec 15's could drop out of the sky and into his livingroom at any moment.. but its VERY unlikely.... Haven't you ever studied Quantum mechanics?? There's a calcuable probability for anything to happen, and anything that can happen WILL happen, but the likelihood of him finding 5 Altec 15's and a sub for under $400 is about .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% maybe less :D .

Of course you forgot about these>>

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=13823

but he'd need to find another pair at this price. "Not Bloody likely"

Nightbrace

02-06-2007, 05:59 AM

Heather, isn't having something to use for now better than not having anything at all (even if its not Altec/JBL) until he saves up some money for his "dream" system?

hjames

02-06-2007, 06:01 AM

The problem with this discussion is that its tacky to help someone design a system when you are offering to sell stuff as part of it the design. Not calling you in question, but even if you are being honorable about it, it comes off - well, suspect at best. Its not you, it would be questionable if Zilch or I or anyone did it.

The only way to recommend stuff is if you aren't involved in the financial side of the deal.

Now, that aside - Progneta has plenty of info here - its time for him to make some decisions and figure what HE wants to do. its pointless for us to argue the trivial points of this decision from afar.

I'm scrubbing mosts of my posts here - there is no point to it - its like flogging a dead dolphin ...

Now - I have to do some work here and make some money - debating this thread is pretty useless at this point ...

I'm outta heyah

Nightbrace

02-06-2007, 06:14 AM

Yeah - the problem is that its tacky to help someone design a system when you are offering to sell stuff as part of it. Not calling you in question, but even if you are being honorable about it, it comes off - well, suspect at best. Its not you, it would be questionable if Zilch or I or anyone did it.

The only way to recommend stuff is if you aren't involved in the financial side of the deal.
.

I understand and I shouldn't have mentioned them, its wasn't smart of me, and yes I can see how someone could misconstrue that I am looking out for my best interests and not his. And it was wrong of me to mention unless he asked me personally if I had anything to offer... But I do take offense that you all still seem to question my integrity as I truly am only trying to help, I was once him, and thought my Kenwood Home Theater system with the Sony speakers I mentioned to him were good, that was when I was 15 and believed what the people at Circuit City told me. And yes I do still think that they would be better than having nothing at all.. I watched plenty of movies with those speakers and I enjoyed them at the time... but am smart enough now to know that there are better options... My first pair of decent speakers were Advent 2's with a Marantz 2226 followed soon by a set of Altec 19's, and I haven't looked back since... The Advents still hold a warm place in my heart, and are still better than most of the newer offerings for the money. And are definitely much "neater" and the Large Advents I mentioned are REAL walnut wood veneered cabinets.. You couldn't build the cabinets for the price I offered them to him for. And even with some good skills, you'd be hard pressed to make a nicer looking cabinet..

Unfortunately, I think sending him a PM would have made it appear even worse, as if I was trying to insult him and unload crappy speakers on him, so I posted in the open forum... knowing full well that I would be MOCKED and INSULTED.. But I am only trying to help this person, and if its at the expense of my own personal torment, I can deal with that..

From now on I will refrain from posting anything for sale here unless its in the FOR SALE section where it belongs. Lesson learned. Not only was it pointless to mention them in this case, but not ethical and for that I should be ashamed, and I am, but in my defense I was only trying to help.

hjames

02-06-2007, 06:26 AM

I had some larger Advents - in 1974 - they were fine until I started listening to a set of 4310 JBL Studio monitors when I dj'ed at the local radio station on weekends. Once I heard mids and highs, the Advents were - well, dull ...
But, I'll admit - the wood cabinets were nice :applaud:

You really do need some rest or something, right??
What part of the following sentences don't you understand:

its tacky to help someone design a system when you are offering to sell stuff as part of it. Not calling you in question, but even if you are being honorable about it, it comes off - well, suspect at best. Its not you, it would be questionable if Zilch or I or anyone did it.

Really, chatroom's closed, party over - get to bed, get some breakfast or whatever ...

... But I do take offense that you all still seem to question my integrity as I truly am only trying to help...
the Large Advents I mentioned are REAL walnut wood veneered cabinets.. You couldn't build the cabinets for the price I offered them to him for. And even with some good skills, you'd be hard pressed to make a nicer looking cabinet..

Nightbrace

02-06-2007, 06:42 AM

I had some larger Advents - in 1974 - they were fine until I started listening to a set of 4310 JBL Studio monitors when I dj'ed at the local radio station on weekends. Once I heard mids and highs, the Advents were - well, dull ...
But, I'll admit - the wood cabinets were nice :applaud:

You really do need some rest or something, right??
What part of the following sentences don't you understand:

its tacky to help someone design a system when you are offering to sell stuff as part of it. Not calling you in question, but even if you are being honorable about it, it comes off - well, suspect at best. Its not you, it would be questionable if Zilch or I or anyone did it.

Really, chatroom's closed, party over - get to bed, get some breakfast or whatever ...

I do. we all have better things to do... I wan't referring to you. Its the others like Zilch that think I'm up to no good that sometimes bothers me. And it hurts when people bash my integrity.. As it would anyone.

Progneta

02-06-2007, 09:51 AM

I can't thank you all enough for the help!! you all have been such a great help!!! all I really need is 4 woofers and 2 horns as I actually have two big altec sectoral horns in stock. after reading this and I have heard some speakers I'm going to dish out more cash. at the going price, how much can I get four altec 15 woofers and two horns and how easy can I obtain them?thanks!!!grant

Storm

02-06-2007, 09:54 AM

4 woofers - about $500.00 with shipping.
4 horns, assuming 811B - about $300.00 with shipping.

I would guess about $800 will do it, but I wouldn't be suprised if you had to spend over $1K.

Good luck.

eBay -- of course...

Plus your time to build the boxes.

It would be easier to find some Model 19's for about $1200.00 each then to purchase separate and slap into any ol' box. Plus, you need to build to spec in order to get close to spec readings.

-Storm.

:p

Nightbrace

02-06-2007, 10:23 AM

The cost of the drivers is not the "biggest" issue, building the cabinets to the factory specs and building the correct networks is.. I am glad you turned around to a more sensible approach... But the cost to build the cabinets and networks will be higher than finding a complete system... The components of these speakers sell for nearly the same, so why not just find some complete cabinets and networks? Storm is about right on the prices, but they do not turn up very often on Ebay..

I'd imagine closer to $1200-$1500 for all the correct woofers and compression drivers/horns for 5 total. If you already have 1 of each that's a start. Why not keep this speaker for the 5th channel? And locate 2 complete pairs? What have you decided to use for a subwoofer? The HSU I mentioned would be a decent option, even if you don't buy mine, HSU makes great sounding subs for the money.

My recommendation to you, from the beginning, is to find a pair of complete Altec 14's or 15's for now and then when you save up the money find another pair. For the 5th channel you can find a single somewhere or build something out of the drivers you already have. That would be much easier and cheaper in the long run...

Progneta

02-06-2007, 10:25 AM

Well I got 2 811B horns so I would need to get two of them. I will look on ebay for the woofers. Altec is the only way to go... If anyone sees any woofers available, please let me know!!!!

How about horn drivers? I used a off beat proaudio once and it sounded pretty good compared to the altec horn driver.

Plus im going to need some cross overs.... dun dun dun..... $ This may be an expensive project, but come on... its altec!

Thanks again!!!

4 woofers - about $500.00 with shipping.
4 horns, assuming 811B - about $300.00 with shipping.

I would guess about $800 will do it, but I wouldn't be suprised if you had to spend over $1K.

Good luck.

eBay -- of course...

Plus your time to build the boxes.

It would be easier to find some Model 19's for about $1200.00 each then to purchase separate and slap into any ol' box. Plus, you need to build to spec in order to get close to spec readings.

-Storm.

:p

Nightbrace

02-06-2007, 10:53 AM

You NEED the Altec drivers for the Altec horns for them to sound like Altecs. I guess that makes sense :). For once. Why do you insist on spending MORE money for the separate components versus finding 2 complete pairs of Altec's? If you want me to itemize what it will cost for the original components, the cost to build the networks, the cost of the materials to build the cabinets grill cloths, etc.. Not to mention the time (which I'm not even considering).. You'll be a liittle surprised at what it will REALLY cost..

For the upteenth time, Buy a PAIR of ALtec 14's or 15's for now to have something to use. And save up for another pair... And locate a compression driver and woofer for one of the horns you currently have. You can always sell the other..

You come to us, and say I've got $400-$500 to spend and I want to build 5 Altec 15's from scratch and I've already got 2 horns... Like your 99% finished. The enthusiasm you have is to be admired, but you also need to be realistic.. You got 3 more horns to go, 5 more compression drivers to go, 5 more woofers to go, 5 more networks to build, 5 more cabinets (built to spec) to build, 5 more grills to build. I didn't even mention the subwoofer yet... Or the cables or the speaker wire... And honestly as much as you love that KOSS receiver, there are MUCH better options...

If you REALLY want to do this, it would be worthwhile and a lot of FUN, but its a relatively big undertaking. And I totally agree that Altec are GREAT speakers, and I can understand why you want to do this so much.

But the undertaking you are considering is not for the light-hearted. I don't want you to give up right away because its hard, on the contrary, nothing would make me happier than to see someone build their "dream" system.

If you are serious and want to do this the RIGHT way, we can help, otherwise, take my advice and find a pair of Altec 15's to use until you can afford to buy or build the rest. There's no monetary gain to what you are considering unless you really like building cabinets and networks and mounting drivers.. You'd be paying the extra money for the fun of it (and many of us do, me included), and would not be "saving" money by building your own cabinets. So from a purely economic stand point your initial thought of building your own to save money is not very realistic. The only reason to build them from scratch if you would enjoy building them as much as you would listening to them when they are finished.

If you merely want to duplicate the sound of your father's speakers for as cheaply as possible, all of that information can be found above... And I care not to re-hash it all again... I've done that enough already,,,

My FINAL post in this thread, if you need MORE help, send me a PM or ask the others.

Storm

02-06-2007, 10:55 AM

To save you the time and trouble, I would either find a pair of the 846 series, the original Altec theatre gray speakers, M 19s, or any other horn/woofer combination.

It is going to take you forever and a day to amass all that stuff. And you need to worry about if the seller packs it correctly for shipping.

Find a complete set, done.

If you can't afford all four - about $2K worth, then start off with a pair and work your way up.

I had the 846 series heathkits and my 846Us running at the same time. Other than being louder, it makes no sense to drown out the sound of the other speakers. Just turn up the two main speakers and you will be fine.

I sold the heaths on eBay and never looked back.

I have used mine for my home theatre as a 2 channel for about a year now and everything I watch I have felt no need to complete a 5.1 setup.

There is a pair of Valencias in Texas right now, but local pickup only.

Good luck.

-Storm.

Nightbrace

02-06-2007, 11:02 AM

Storm<< Don't scare him away with the BIG system's they will be MUCH too MUCH for him.. We don't want to lose another Altec guy.... Gotta start him off slowly.. He's a virgin Altec guy remember :).. I hope he listens to my above post and just buys a pair of Altec 14's or 15's and a decent amp to run them with a decent CD player versus the DVD player he is using... Keeping music and HT separate is the key to having both without breaking the bank...

I could just tell him to buy a pair of Altec 19's with 416-8c woofers with a HH Scott 222c with 7591 output tubes and a NAD CD player with Burr-brown op-amps and be done with it :), but I guess he'll have to learn that the hard way. Even the most expensive speaker systems and set-ups cannot compare. Even the few modern expensive speakers that I own are only "slightly" better and no JBL living or dead has yet to compare. But yet nobody from LH has yet to come for a listen :(... I hope I'm wrong and there is a JBL I'll like better. I'd be the first to embrace it. I was mightily impressed with the L300's, but they still were not as good as the Altec 19's.

And anyone who thinks a 240Ti sounds "much better" than my Altec 19's, must have some major hearing problems. I owned them both and it couldn't be more Night and Day.. And from those who post here, I'm expected to believe that I am TOTALLY WRONG, and that I have NO CLUE, just because I didn't like a single JBL speaker system... Is it merely because its a JBL and therefore HAS TO be better than anything Altec?? I really don't know. You all can't be that brand loyal... Even some of the Corvette's were not so great. I was told this by more than 20 different members that I previously respected for their knowledge of JBL, can they just be ignorant to the fact that Altec exists? I don't know and I cannot see how they can pass that kind of judgement on me just because I cannot seem to agree with them. Aren't I entitled to my own opinion?? Aren't I allowed to "think" that my ALtec 19's are the bee's knees even if I'm TOTALLY WRONG??

I think that as long as I'm happy is all that "really" matters. Not if I'm right or wrong based on a designer's frequency response graphs.. I agree that on paper that the Altec 19's are "mediocre" and nowhere near as flat as a 240Ti, but the Altec 19's are just flat out sound better. I wish I had the wisdom to understand "why" they do.. Thats my mission... Not only to find great sounding speakers, but to understand "why" they are so good, I think using specs and technology to get accurate data of speakers like this is a MUST at helping us to understand these things. There is a LOT more to speaker than a FLAT LINE on paper. If this was the only way to get great sounding speakers, than it would be really easy. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. If many of the members here saw what the REAL frequency response graph of the Altec 19 is on a piece of paper, they'd throw them in the trash... And many do.. And its a crime against humanity.

To say that Altec only has value as a collectible or as a speaker with "inferior" sound only kept alive to duplicate people's memory of vintage audio could not be farther from the truth... Just because its old doesn't mean that it MUST be BAD. I wasn't even alive when these speakers were built, and never heard a pair till about 5 years ago, and to those who say that its "backwards logic" to think that a vintage speaker like the Altec 19 sounds better than a newer and therefore superior design like the 240Ti, to me is someone who is not being at all objective and is using their own logical skills against them...

They think that the transducers have gotten better and the networks are more advanced, so therefore the resultant sound is much better as they present a very flat balanced sound with little coloration. But they never to bother with defining the word "better". Things don't always get "better" with time.. Sometimes they get worse.. Its how you define the word better thats really important. I am not in anyway implying that all older stuff is better, on the contrary, most of it is poor, but the same can be said for contemporary speaker designs even from a reputable company like JBL. Some were good, some were bad, and a few were GREAT.

Did it ever occur to any of you that some of these colorations are VALUABLE when it comes to reproducing the "illusion" of a REAL person singing or a REAL person playing an instrument? So do I take the insult that I using "backwards logic" as a compliment?? I don't know, but in this case I do. As I embrace many of these colorations most notably a smooth rising midrange response reminiscent of 70's JBL and Altec.. The BEST newer speaker designs have all had similiar colorations and therefore are all poor sounding to all of you because they are not perfectly flat. To me thats how most speakers sound, "flat", including a majority of the post 1980 JBL offerings with only a few exceptions. I have admired the transducer design of JBL, they are fantastic, but I scratch my head when I hear speakers with such sophisticated networks which totally alter the signature JBL sound in order to get a flatter response.

I know that any member who comes here for a listen will immediately be sold by my Altecs and might just be willing to show me a little more respect around here. Maybe their ears are tuned into JBL only and they won't even want to hear them? I don't know, but no one seems to want to give Altec a try.. Hmm, I got it, maybe I should put JBL logos on my Altecs, maybe then someone from LH would want to listen to them then? Luckily they do get some respect from the "right" people who hopefully know better than to think that every JBL is superior to any Altec.

The comments I've gotten about them, from friends, family, "audiophiles", musicians, pretty much everybody, has been nothing short of remarkable, and I'd NEVER sell them.. There have been some people who have said "They're too loud, or "who cares", but thats hardly an insult, merely ignorant to the fact that they sound so good. I have them dialed in so well I hate to move them an inch, People have said to me, "It can't be the speakers that sound that good can it?? "It must just be the amp", or "the material", or a
"special" room. I tell them, "Its a little bit of everything, but mainly the speakers. The rest of the stuff just dials them in." Don't know what else to say.. Do you get similiar reactions to your speakers?

Geez, I forgot I said no more posting on this thread for me... I know this guy is going to drive me nuts... Now I know how you all must have felt when I first starting posting here. Thanks for setting me straight! Although I think its obvious that I still have a LOT of straightening yet to do :).

Storm

02-06-2007, 11:04 AM

NB -

I use my system for everything and it seems to work out great.

He should get a pair of the big boys and keep them for life.

Why waste $500 to $800 plus shipping and time - building a box for each. When he can spend an extra couple hundred and get a complete and finished set?

That's my point.

I think there is nothing wrong with having one system that meets all of the entertainment needs.

-Storm.

Nightbrace

02-06-2007, 12:15 PM

I agree, but I KNOW he won't, he wants 5 GREAT speakers and wants to spend nothing and thinks he can compensate for that by building them from scratch. He needs to know that he is totally wrong, and that buying one pair at a time is his best bet, or again, keeping music and HT separate.

Storm

02-06-2007, 12:29 PM

My point, exactly!

Maybe this is why everyone thinks we are the same person. It is odd that you and I think alike ---

I would love to come take a listen to your system - next time I am in the area, I will give you a call!

:)

Without Altec, there would never have been JBL - where's the respect around here?

-Storm.

Storm<< Don't scare him away with the BIG system's they will be MUCH too MUCH for him.. We don't want to lose another Altec guy.... Gotta start him off slowly.. He's a virgin Altec guy remember :).. I hope he listens to my above post and just buys a pair of Altec 14's or 15's and a decent amp to run them with a decent CD player versus the DVD player he is using... Keeping music and HT separate is the key to having both without breaking the bank...

I could just tell him to buy a pair of Altec 19's with 416-8c woofers with a HH Scott 222c with 7591 output tubes and a NAD CD player with Burr-brown op-amps and be done with it :), but I guess he'll have to learn that the hard way. Even the most expensive speaker systems and set-ups cannot compare. Even the few modern expensive speakers that I own are only "slightly" better and no JBL living or dead has yet to compare. But yet nobody from LH has yet to come for a listen :(... I hope I'm wrong and there is a JBL I'll like better. I'd be the first to embrace it. I was mightily impressed with the L300's, but they still were not as good as the Altec 19's.

And anyone who thinks a 240Ti sounds "much better" than my Altec 19's, must have some major hearing problems. I owned them both and it couldn't be more Night and Day.. And from those who post here, I'm expected to believe that I am TOTALLY WRONG, and that I have NO CLUE, just because I didn't like a single JBL speaker system... Is it merely because its a JBL and therefore HAS TO be better than anything Altec?? I really don't know. You all can't be that brand loyal... Even some of the Corvette's were not so great. I was told this by more than 20 different members that I previously respected for their knowledge of JBL, can they just be ignorant to the fact that Altec exists? I don't know and I cannot see how they can pass that kind of judgement on me just because I cannot seem to agree with them. Aren't I entitled to my own opinion?? Aren't I allowed to "think" that my ALtec 19's are the bee's knees even if I'm TOTALLY WRONG??

I think that as long as I'm happy is all that "really" matters. Not if I'm right or wrong based on a designer's frequency response graphs.. I agree that on paper that the Altec 19's are "mediocre" and nowhere near as flat as a 240Ti, but the Altec 19's are just flat out sound better. I wish I had the wisdom to understand "why" they do.. Thats my mission... Not only to find great sounding speakers, but to understand "why" they are so good, I think using specs and technology to get accurate data of speakers like this is a MUST at helping us to understand these things. There is a LOT more to speaker than a FLAT LINE on paper. If this was the only way to get great sounding speakers, than it would be really easy. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. If many of the members here saw what the REAL frequency response graph of the Altec 19 is on a piece of paper, they'd throw them in the trash... And many do.. And its a crime against humanity.

To say that Altec only has value as a collectible or as a speaker with "inferior" sound only kept alive to duplicate people's memory of vintage audio could not be farther from the truth... Just because its old doesn't mean that it MUST be BAD. I wasn't even alive when these speakers were built, and never heard a pair till about 5 years ago, and to those who say that its "backwards logic" to think that a vintage speaker like the Altec 19 sounds better than a newer and therefore superior design like the 240Ti, to me is someone who is not being at all objective and is using their own logical skills against them...

They think that the transducers have gotten better and the networks are more advanced, so therefore the resultant sound is much better as they present a very flat balanced sound with little coloration. But they never to bother with defining the word "better". Things don't always get "better" with time.. Sometimes they get worse.. Its how you define the word better thats really important. I am not in anyway implying that all older stuff is better, on the contrary, most of it is poor, but the same can be said for contemporary speaker designs even from a reputable company like JBL. Some were good, some were bad, and a few were GREAT.

Did it ever occur to any of you that some of these colorations are VALUABLE when it comes to reproducing the "illusion" of a REAL person singing or a REAL person playing an instrument? So do I take the insult that I using "backwards logic" as a compliment?? I don't know, but in this case I do. As I embrace many of these colorations most notably a smooth rising midrange response reminiscent of 70's JBL and Altec.. The BEST newer speaker designs have all had similiar colorations and therefore are all poor sounding to all of you because they are not perfectly flat. To me thats how most speakers sound, "flat", including a majority of the post 1980 JBL offerings with only a few exceptions. I have admired the transducer design of JBL, they are fantastic, but I scratch my head when I hear speakers with such sophisticated networks which totally alter the signature JBL sound in order to get a flatter response.

I know that any member who comes here for a listen will immediately be sold by my Altecs and might just be willing to show me a little more respect around here. Maybe their ears are tuned into JBL only and they won't even want to hear them? I don't know, but no one seems to want to give Altec a try.. Hmm, I got it, maybe I should put JBL logos on my Altecs, maybe then someone from LH would want to listen to them then? Luckily they do get some respect from the "right" people who hopefully know better than to think that every JBL is superior to any Altec.

The comments I've gotten about them, from friends, family, "audiophiles", musicians, pretty much everybody, has been nothing short of remarkable, and I'd NEVER sell them.. There have been some people who have said "They're too loud, or "who cares", but thats hardly an insult, merely ignorant to the fact that they sound so good. I have them dialed in so well I hate to move them an inch, People have said to me, "It can't be the speakers that sound that good can it?? "It must just be the amp", or "the material", or a
"special" room. I tell them, "Its a little bit of everything, but mainly the speakers. The rest of the stuff just dials them in." Don't know what else to say.. Do you get similiar reactions to your speakers?

Geez, I forgot I said no more posting on this thread for me... I know this guy is going to drive me nuts... Now I know how you all must have felt when I first starting posting here. Thanks for setting me straight! Although I think its obvious that I still have a LOT of straightening yet to do :).

Progneta

02-06-2007, 12:54 PM

Im sorry, I must not have been clear. The $400.00 - $500.00 amount was for "non altec" components. I will gladly pay into the $1000.00's for actual altec gear... but not off beat stuff. Altec is worth the dollar, I guess because I grew up with the gear. I understand you cant get altecs cheap. I have seen my father sell altec systems well over $5k. :) Altecs must be enjoyed by many! ;)

I have decided to go with the altec gear. I really appretiate everyone helping out. If anyone has some good altec gear they woud like to part with, I would be interested in looking

I agree, but I KNOW he won't, he wants 5 GREAT speakers and wants to spend nothing and thinks he can compensate for that by building them from scratch. He needs to know that he is totally wrong, and that buying one pair at a time is his best bet, or again, keeping music and HT separate.

Storm

02-06-2007, 01:13 PM

If anyone has some good altec gear they woud like to part with, I would be interested in looking

You may look, but don't touch.

;)

-Storm.

Nightbrace

02-06-2007, 01:24 PM

We will be on the lookout for you... Altec 15's are doable for $1000 for 4 complete speakers. If your truly serious, don't waste your money or time building cabinets. I have a friend with a set of 15's for $500 but shipping would be expensive, like $200 for the pair to package and ship them properly.

I agree with Storm, why not just get a KILLER 2 speaker set-up. You need not have 5.1 to have GREAT sound. It merely helps to give you a sense of the surroundings. And is useful only for movies, and even then only certain movies. Of all the movies I watch, I only feel the need to have (6.1 in my case), 25% of the time. But almost any movie can sound good with only 2 channels. So honestly for 5.1 almost anything decent will work and about the most important component is the subwoofer, your Koss will work ok for surround sound, but for music you gotta upgrade. Its just not built for this purpose unless something magical happened to it at Sears.

Altec Valencia's are a great buy for the money, they can be found for $800-$1000 in nice shape. Altec 15's and 14's are not as good, but definitely ALTEC, $400-$600 is about the right price for these. Start small and work your way up, you'll get there. the BEST I mentioned above, Altec 19's, but expect to pay a little more.

You gotta do something about that amp and DVD player if you want something special for music.. DVD players dont' work for music unless you spend BIG $$.. I'd highly recommend NAD, Sony, Rotel, and Marantz CD players, but not all the models are good.. Ask me if you don't know, there are a few models I could recommend to keep an eye out for. Most modest Sony's will get you by ok.. And for under $50 will be better than just about any consumer DVD player.

As far as an amp, Altec doesn't need BIG power.. A lot of tube amps will work VERY well. But for the money I don't think you'd be disappointed with a Pioneer SX-780, its all the power you need for the Altec's, it has a great tuner, is easy to use and very durable, and is DC which the Altec's eat up.. And best of all you can buy them shipped to you for under $100.

Progneta

02-06-2007, 01:28 PM

Thanks! I will keep a look out too! I really appreciate all the input!!

-G

We will be on the lookout for you... Altec 15's are doable for $1000 for 4 complete speakers. If your truly serious, don't waste your money or time building cabinets. I have a friend with a set of 15's for $500 but shipping would be expensive, like $200 for the pair to package and ship them properly.

I agree with Storm, why not just get a KILLER 2 speaker set-up. You need not have 5.1 to have GREAT sound. It merely helps to give you a sense of the surroundings. And is useful only for movies, and even then only certain movies. Of all the movies I watch, I only feel the need to have (6.1 in my case), 25% of the time. But almost any movie can sound good with only 2 channels. So honestly for 5.1 almost anything decent will work and about the most important component is the subwoofer, your Koss will work ok for surround sound (http://www.qklinkserver.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=92&k=surround%20sound&st=1), but for music you gotta upgrade. Its just not built for this purpose unless something magical happened to it at Sears.

Altec Valencia's are a great buy for the money, they can be found for $800-$1000 in nice shape. Altec 15's and 14's are not as good, but definitely ALTEC, $400-$600 is about the right price for these. Start small and work your way up, you'll get there. the BEST I mentioned above, Altec 19's, but expect to pay a little more.

You gotta do something about that amp and DVD player if you want something special for music.. DVD players dont' work for music unless you spend BIG $$.. I'd highly recommend NAD, Sony, Rotel, and Marantz CD players, but not all the models are good.. Ask me if you don't know, there are a few models I could recommend to keep an eye out for. Most modest Sony's will get you by ok.. And for under $50 will be better than just about any consumer DVD player.

As far as an amp, Altec doesn't need BIG power.. A lot of tube amps (http://www.qklinkserver.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=92&k=tube%20amps&st=1) will work VERY well. But for the money I don't think you'd be disappointed with a Pioneer SX-780, its all the power you need for the Altec's, it has a great tuner, is easy to use and very durable, and is DC which the Altec's eat up.. And best of all you can buy them shipped to you for under $100.