Should I buy this for my Valencias?

[Storm]

4 hours to go....

http://cgi.ebay.com/equalizer-ALTEC-model-EQE-voice-of-theatre-19-speakers_W0QQitemZ280074021622QQihZ018QQcategoryZ3 271QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

What does it do? Is it any good?

Thank you.

-Storm.

[louped garouv]

what is it, model wise for those of us who do not have ebay access during the day, or do not what to click the link, as the case may be...

Equalizers typically allow the user to cut (an possibly boost) specific frequencies in an attempt to flatten response....

[avguytx]

That looks similar to the EQ that my Electro Voice Interface C's use. It's added in thru the tape monitor loop and is supposed to "optimize" the signal path or something like that. Honestly, they sound better without it...lol. But who knows...it's always something to have!

[sourceoneaudio]

I would say that is a way to tailor the sound the way you like. To correct for issues you or your room might have. Kind like the Buss Bars on the back 250TI's I have for sale. But the Altec does it electronically instead of passively.

J/S-S1A :D

[grumpy]

One could always judiciously use the tone controls commonly found on vintage receivers.
-grumpy

[Storm]

Fair enough.

I was just wondering why it was up to over $100 bucks.

I tried uploading the image, but its too big.

So, essentially - not worth the hassle?

-Storm.

[Chas]

Watch out. As memory serves AND as the name implies, "Concept EQ" was a line of sealed box systems that featured active low frequncy equalization using this gadget.

I would not recommend using this device with a ported system like the Altec 19's. You're likely to cause major woofer damage when the cone/box combination unloads at low frequencies. Especially important if you play vinyl.

Others that used a similar idea:

McIntosh ML series
EV Interface
Early Bose 901's
KEF "cube"

[grumpy]

Fair enough.

I was just wondering why it was up to over $100 bucks.

I tried uploading the image, but its too big.

So, essentially - not worth the hassle?

-Storm.

Nice pics, says "rare" and "Altec" in the same sentence... that's about all you need. ;)

I -personally- would not be interested given the age, purpose, and likely contents of
the box, but don't let me dissuade you from being interested. -grumpy

[kingjames]

It would appear 9 people think it's worth something.:applaud:

[Storm]

I suppose thats true - but with eBay's new system, no one will ever know if someone is shill bidding.

Guess that's what eBay wants. They dont care about shill bidding anymore, just as long at they get their percentage of the highest price possible.

-Storm.

[louped garouv]

Guess that's what eBay wants. They dont care about shill bidding anymore, just as long at they get their percentage of the highest price possible.

-Storm.

I despise the second chance offers as well...

notice how you are second chance offerred to purchase the auction at the highest dollar value that was beat by the deadbeat (sorry for a lack of a better term), not the amount it it would have taken to beat the bidder below you!

[Storm]

I count three bidders.

Somehow I am able to see the bidders' IDs.

-Storm.

[grumpy]

http://www.roger-russell.com/ml1cpg.htm

"In 1972 the Concept EQ-5 was introduced by University Sound Division of LTV Altec. According to advertising, this system has a 12-inch overdamped woofer. The equalizer reportedly restores flat bass response and permits contouring of other portions of the audio spectrum to suit the acoustics of individual listening rooms. Three contouring controls are provided: low frequency (-6 dB to flat response in three steps); mid bass (-6 to +6 dB) in five steps); high frequency (-6 to flat response in three steps). The system also has a 5-inch mid-range and a small dome tweeter. The two speakers and equalizer sold for $399.00."

[Storm]

Wow, excellent detective work!

So, for sure - you say dont get it?

-Storm.

[grumpy]

"Just like a#% holes, everyones got an opinion."

"no" would be mine (opinion).

[jim campbell]

why bother. all it is is a couple of pots and you would be better off buying a good graphic eq for not that much more. if you buy into the purist thing you are better off with nothing in the signal path.myself i found that bi amping with outboard electronic x overs though more money yields the best results

[louped garouv]

I think the Altecs seem better with judicious bit of EQ.....


that was my experience with both the M19s and A7s.....

[Zilch]

We have the measurements for M19.

Surely they're available for A7s....

[spkrman57]

room placement and other "non-invasive" measures than trying to electronically fix problems.

Also, look at what most of the Altec speaker systems(with horns) were designed for: STUDIO and CINEMA!!!

The curve resembles that of the infamous A7 and 604 coax systems which empasized midrange reproduction through a perforcated screen!

For Hi-Fi use. they can be tamed enough, but expect no more than what they were designed for.

Same thing Giskard has tried to convey of JBL speaker systems!;)

Hope this helps sort things out!

Regards, Ron

[Chas]

why bother. all it is is a couple of pots and you would be better off buying a good graphic eq for not that much more. if you buy into the purist thing you are better off with nothing in the signal path.myself i found that bi amping with outboard electronic x overs though more money yields the best results

I couldn't agree more. An expansion of this idea would be to insert a graphic or other EQ in the low pass signal chain only for LF correction. I like the Ashly (although it would only use a small portion of the available frequency range) for this application as it features variable and switchable high pass filtering that helps protect vented systems.

If I wasn't clear in my first post, this device is not recommended for vented Altec systems. It was designed solely for a specific driver/enclosure combination.

[spwal]

room placement and other "non-invasive" measures than trying to electronically fix problems.

Also, look at what most of the Altec speaker systems(with horns) were designed for: STUDIO and CINEMA!!!

The curve resembles that of the infamous A7 and 604 coax systems which empasized midrange reproduction through a perforcated screen!

For Hi-Fi use. they can be tamed enough, but expect no more than what they were designed for.

Same thing Giskard has tried to convey of JBL speaker systems!;)

Hope this helps sort things out!

Regards, Ron


Hi ron,

Im gonna open up a number of things to discussion here, i am certainly not the only one who would appreciate some advice on this...

Is your comment saying that, by default, the Altec M19 is inappropriate for smallroom/home applications? They share alot in common with the A7 Vott, though from what i gathered in my readings here, they are more "refined" whatever that means. If they are somewhat "inappropriate", how do you think they can be tamed electronically? Room placement/treatment is going to be what its going to be in my space-confined bedroom. I think they sound silky smooth and the dispersion in my small room leaves the whole place enveloped with sound...(albiet the soundstage could be much larger given room to breathe)

Has there been a definitive top 5 EQ thread or something for Altecs, and the Altec 19 in particular? How much modding do you do to them to get them to hifi specs? Names and models would be helpful.

External electronic crossovers and biamp applications intrigue me, but beyond the cost constraints of buying a hefty SS amp for the bass and a pricey SET amp for the horns, I doubt i could ever get it setup right. Again, are there names and models that have been particularly successful in your collective experiences?

So i guess the questions are EQs and external crossovers to read up on and potentially purchase if the cost/reward ratio is satisfactory.

Thanks for your time,

Sean

[Gary L]

My experience with Altecs and EQ has led to one conclusion in my ears.

They tend to sound best with no EQ at all and the only thing I have found that makes much difference is the amp itself.

Totally un-scientific but, with Pioneer and Yamaha the sound was bright and without warmth. With Marantz and Luxman the sound was a bit too warm and colored. With Sansui I found the sound I appreciate the most and my Altecs seem to be free of all coloration.

All power sources I use are left with tone controls out or defeated and what I consider completely Flat. I do appreciate the bass boost or loudness on when listening at lower volumes but off when I crank it a bit.
When I employ the tone controls I find that something is added and at the same time something else is removed and I am able to taylor the sound yet don't find it any better at all. I do think if a room is particularly harsh and reflective I would need some tone control but most of this can be accomplished with the L pads on most Altecs.

Gary

[spwal]

gary,

an honest and financially agreeable answer.

the temptation of playing with an eq is there, but probably would be more detractive than additive... my thinking is that the older ones probably had hard studio lives and would need some sort of electrical-prowess to get back up to snuff.

its always fun to tinker though. I dont hear anything eggregiously wrong with my 19s in their current state, but then again i dont know what to listen for....

this is a question for Zilch:

1) How much is the software/ microphone that you use to diagnose your speakers in-room

2) are they readily re-sellable?

3) are they soundcard dependent? (more accurate with better soundcards)

If i can play with one of these without blood or foul, then maybe i can see if an eq really would be a justified evil.

Any input would be appreciated, thanks.

[Gary L]

Keep in mind Sean that any speakers output can only be as good as it's input. My feeling is that Eqs add some doctoring that is or at least should not be necessary except in very harsh room accoustics.

The programs that zilch and others use can certainly be a big help in determining the output sound but I do question much of those results because we all tend to hear and appreciate different sound qualities.

Do the test yourself when a few friends are over. Employ your tone controls and one by one have your friends tell you when the sound sounds best to them, you make the adjustments. You will be amazed at what some people think sounds great!
I have one friend who could be perfectly satisfied with nothing more then a subwoofer, to him even the slightest bit of treble sounds tinny.

My best advice is to seek and find a power source that sounds good with your speakers and to you.

Gary

[spwal]

im convinced that i need to buy another Pass Labs Aleph 3/30/J.

I was astonished what that amp was capable of.... sounds neither tube or ss.

Too bad clones cant be had for less money. Would be neat to put a clone in an old altec amp case, love that color, however the massive heat sinks required to keep a alpeh cool wouldnt work.

[Zilch]

This is a question for Zilch:

1) How much is the software/ microphone that you use to diagnose your speakers in-room

2) are they readily re-sellable?

3) are they soundcard dependent? (more accurate with better soundcards)

If i can play with one of these without blood or foul, then maybe i can see if an eq really would be a justified evil.

Any input would be appreciated, thanks.I use two systems: a Behringer hardware RTA/EQ DEQ2496 ($300 list) and a sophisticated software based system with dedicated sound card CLIO ($1500). Other forum members are achieving impressive success with less expensive software-based systems, but, as you suggest, there's hardware components that must be worked through.

In your case, I would buy the Behringer, because it's complete and "turn-key." You can get Guitar Center (and probably others) to throw in the mic and cables for $250 total, probably. You'll need a mic stand and mini-boom, as well.

The reason I suggest that is you want to try various EQ schemes and hear the differences. That unit has 31-band EQ built in, and a very useful AutoEQ function with it. You dial in the response curve you want and push the button. It listens to your system and applies the requisite EQ to achieve it. You can save up to 64 different EQs in memory.

BUT, what you'll likely discover for yourself is that the industry does NOT have its head up its ass, and that the standard "flat" or tilted "room correction" responses it generates are most acceptable, the "flat" being somewhat brighter sounding. That'll tell you what needs to be done to correct your system.

Ignore the subjectivist technophobes here ( :wave: ); they are quite clueless with respect to what they're hearing, and that it sounds different to them each day. That's why they spend their lives (and $$$) endlessly chasing their tails in this endeavor.

I suspect you'll have NO problem reselling that system here in the forums, but I also know, if you put the requisite effort into learning what it does and how to use it, you'll want to keep measurement as an itegral component in your continued enjoyment of audio....

[Zilch]

The programs that zilch and others use can certainly be a big help in determining the output sound but I do question much of those results because we all tend to hear and appreciate different sound qualities.I'll encourage you again to try it. You need a baseline; THEN you can determine how different systems and "improvements" compare.

[It's all a perpetual and indeterminate wank, otherwise.... :p ]

[louped garouv]

I still really really like the White EQs.....

maybe it's not the purist approach, but I feel that the Whites made my ALtecs "come to life" so to speak...

as has been pointed out, YMMV

I have not played with any EQs I like as much as the Whites....
(only played with a few: rane, dbx, dod, beheringer)

My experience with Altecs and EQ has led to one conclusion in my ears.

They tend to sound best with no EQ at all and the only thing I have found that makes much difference is the amp itself.

Totally un-scientific but, with Pioneer and Yamaha the sound was bright and without warmth. With Marantz and Luxman the sound was a bit too warm and colored. With Sansui I found the sound I appreciate the most and my Altecs seem to be free of all coloration.

All power sources I use are left with tone controls out or defeated and what I consider completely Flat. I do appreciate the bass boost or loudness on when listening at lower volumes but off when I crank it a bit.
When I employ the tone controls I find that something is added and at the same time something else is removed and I am able to taylor the sound yet don't find it any better at all. I do think if a room is particularly harsh and reflective I would need some tone control but most of this can be accomplished with the L pads on most Altecs.

Gary

[Gary L]

I'll encourage you again to try it. You need a baseline; THEN you can determine how different systems and "improvements" compare.

[It's all a perpetual and indeterminate wank, otherwise.... :p ]

I don't doubt you for even a NANO second Zilch.
The wank on my end is purely from an absolute belief that even when the graphs and measurements say it should sound great, I will likely think otherwise.
Please don't get me wrong, I know you speak the truth however I am enough of a boob with this computer stuff that I am willing to accept what is and spare myself the expense of another window through which the computer will go!
Adding another degree of frustration here would be totally counter-productive. I applaude those of you who have such patients with these machines.

Gary

[Nightbrace]

4 hours to go....

http://cgi.ebay.com/equalizer-ALTEC-model-EQE-voice-of-theatre-19-speakers_W0QQitemZ280074021622QQihZ018QQcategoryZ3 271QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

What does it do? Is it any good?

Thank you.

-Storm.

For something to play around with, sure, why not... But why play around with something that needs no playing around with??

If you need something like this to make these speakers sound better to you, then you need different speakers, or at the very least different crossovers..

From what you've told me and numerous people here. There's no better speaker than what you have, except perhaps the Altec 19, why mess with perfection? Lexus doesn't now do they??

Tinker with something you don't like, the old saying goes, if it aint broke, don't fix it, or in this case, don't play with it... Find something else that your not as happy with and play all you like... but I wouldn't mess with your Valencia's at all if I had 'em. Maybe just some "new" networks to stock specs.

If you NEED a EQ to make your speakers sound good, then you need better speakers... A great set of speakers already has all of these issues addressed...

[Robh3606]

If you NEED a EQ to make your speakers sound good, then you need better speakers... A great set of speakers already has all of these issues addressed...

Think about that for a minute.

One thing that cannot be designed in is the room the speakers are placed in and where they are placed in the room.

That response is if you are serious if your not, don't break his shoes.

Rob:)

[Nightbrace]

ROB, an EQ can help to adjust for room acoustics, but I mean in general that if you are considerably changing things that you are listening to the wrong speakers.. And EQ is easily changable, this backing plate is not quite as easy...