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Ralf
12-28-2003, 08:06 AM
In my preferential master tavern there is good beer. The sound is however miserable.

Thus I persuaded the landlord to build a few decent boxes.

Naturally not without ulterior motives. I would like to drink good beer and enjoy casual sound.

The idea is to build two 4530 and add something like JBL EON Tops...Cheap and effectively.

Have-Good-Sound-With-Your-Beer-Project...

Ralf
12-28-2003, 08:08 AM
So I got 2 E-130 on Ebay for less money...

Guido
12-28-2003, 10:23 AM
Nice carpenter work on those


4530


New years eve will be fantastic! Maybe I'll join you!:cheers:

Charley Rummel
12-28-2003, 08:46 PM
Hi, Ralph:

Very nice work!! :cheers:

Couple of questions: What are you using for the accoustic lining in the compression chamber? Also, what are you using for materials in the curved pannel towards the horn mouth?

Regards,
Charley

Ralf
12-29-2003, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by Charley Rummel
Hi, Ralph:

Couple of questions: What are you using for the accoustic lining in the compression chamber? Also, what are you using for materials in the curved pannel towards the horn mouth?

Regards,
Charley

Accoustic lining: Burl foam material

Nearly the whole box is made with centralclose fiber boards.
The rear wall of the compression chamber is resin-strengthened multiplex.
The horn curvature is from on one side slit plates, so that one can bend it more easily.
It looks like: _o_o_o_o_

Greetings
Ralf

:cheers:

JBL Dog
12-29-2003, 10:11 PM
Great boxes! EON's on top should be sweet!

:cheers:


This message comes from JBL Dog :band:

Charley Rummel
12-30-2003, 05:17 PM
HI, Ralf:

Thanks for your reply!

Kind regards and happy new year-
Charley

Ralf
01-02-2004, 08:24 AM
We were ready for new year...

Ralf
01-02-2004, 08:26 AM
some pics from new year eve...

Ralf
01-02-2004, 08:26 AM
some pics from new year eve...

Ralf
01-02-2004, 08:32 AM
some pics from new year eve...

Ralf
01-02-2004, 08:37 AM
some pics from new year eve ...

Ralf
01-02-2004, 09:07 AM
some pics from new year eve...

Charley Rummel
01-02-2004, 05:00 PM
Hey, Ralf:

That looks like quite a New Years Eve Party! It also looks like the 4530's really helped get the place rockin'! :band:

I'll bet this helps the tavern owner's revenues, too! :thmbsup:

Regards,
Charley

pangea
01-02-2004, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by Charley Rummel
Hi, Ralph:

Very nice work!! :cheers:

Couple of questions: What are you using for the accoustic lining in the compression chamber? Also, what are you using for materials in the curved pannel towards the horn mouth?

Regards,
Charley

Hi Charley!

Could you please elaborate on why you were asking Ralph these questions.

I built a pair of those in the seventies and put a pair of K145's in them. They rocked!!! :D

But I don't remember that there were any lining/damping/material problems/issues to consider

Lately I have often thought of building a pair of those again since I liked them so much, but wouldn't like to make any errors this time, so what should I think of? What problems might lay ahead?

Greatful for any suggestions and advice.

BR
Roland

PS: Nice party and nice gear. I just know how that sounded. :D :cool: DS.

Charley Rummel
01-02-2004, 05:29 PM
Hi, Pangea:

Thank you for asking. As some of our members know, over the recent years I've been planning to build a pair of 4520's (the 2 x 15 version of the 4530). I've put a lot of research into the different versions of the 4520/4530 design which have turned up from varios sources, and I've also come up with some of my own improvements.

As for my two specific questions regarding the accoustic material in the compression chamber and the construction detail of the horn fold at the horn mouth on Ralf's creations, It's just a matter of curiosity. Even though we all agree that there are optimal materials available for accoustic treatment, for example, different individuals may have their own preferences, and they could be different from one another.

Also, there are a number of aproaches to constructing the horn curves. Ralf's aproach is a proven, effective and structuraly sound method of accomplishing the horn curve. Others have also succeeded with laminating thin panels together.

So, it's more data to consider.

Regards,
Charley

pangea
01-02-2004, 05:46 PM
Hi Charley!

Are these improvments a secret or would you like to share what and how you have done it?

Also, which driver would you say is the most suitable, since I would imagine it hard to find a pair of K145's today.

BR
Roland

pangea
01-02-2004, 05:50 PM
PS: I have a pair of 2220A in very good condition, would they fit you think? DS.

BR
Roland

Charley Rummel
01-02-2004, 06:47 PM
Hi, again, Pangea:

The 2220 was once recomended by JBL for use in the 4520/4530; I think they'd work very well. Also, If you can't get ahold of a pair of the K145's, the E145 would also make a good choice if you can find those. The 2205 and the 2225 are good candidates as well.

As for my improvements which you asked about, I'd rather try them out first and make sure they're successful before I reveal them. For what it's worth, in the time I've been researching this project, I have yet to come across somebody else's plans which reflect with what's in my improvements.

Kind regards,
Charley

Ralf
01-02-2004, 07:32 PM
..for all, who plan to build such brutally Horns. We had any problems at the party:

- Pictures were falling down from the wall and were broken.

- Glasses were vibrated from the shelf.

People reported of the fact that some women got a clarified face expression, when they sat down on the vibrating bar stools. :D

Greetings
Ralf

boputnam
01-02-2004, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by Ralf
...some women got a clarified face expression, when they sat down on the vibrating bar stools. Uh-oh... :eek:

Now I have ANOTHER project! :rotfl:

*****

But I gotta say, we had the closing of New Years here, on request of the neighbors, and boy how they boogied to the 4345's. Whoo-wa! :dancin:

Greg Timbers and company really had something going back in the day. Wow... :thmbsup:

pangea
01-03-2004, 05:22 AM
Originally posted by Charley Rummel
Hi, again, Pangea:

The 2220 was once recomended by JBL for use in the 4520/4530; I think they'd work very well. Also, If you can't get ahold of a pair of the K145's, the E145 would also make a good choice if you can find those. The 2205 and the 2225 are good candidates as well.

As for my improvements which you asked about, I'd rather try them out first and make sure they're successful before I reveal them. For what it's worth, in the time I've been researching this project, I have yet to come across somebody else's plans which reflect with what's in my improvements.

Kind regards,
Charley


Thanks for your input, I'll keep this in mind.
I would have thought the 2227 be a candidate as well in that case, since it's quite close to the 2220, or isn't it!?

I can wait, I'm in no immediate hurry to learn about your experiences on the 4530, I guess I should move first. Some of my neighbors are already not so impressed with my speakers. :D

BR
Roland

pangea
01-03-2004, 05:40 AM
Originally posted by Ralf
..for all, who plan to build such brutally Horns. We had any problems at the party:

- Pictures were falling down from the wall and were broken.

- Glasses were vibrated from the shelf.

People reported of the fact that some women got a clarified face expression, when they sat down on the vibrating bar stools. :D

Greetings
Ralf

Hi Ralf!

No need to warn me, I already know what they can do! :D :D :D

You see, that is exactly why I want to build me a new pair of 4530's some day, in the not so distant future. :cool:

In the seventies I was frequently hired as DJ on all kinds of parties, always taking my 4530's along and I have missed them more than once after having sold them to a friend in the early eighties.

BR
Roland

JBLnsince1959
01-03-2004, 07:35 AM
Ralf:

I have a question about the girls at the party ( on the barstools). Was it the blond in picture #6 ( with her mouth open), or was it the girl with the yellow shirt in picture #8 - ha

Looks like they were "feeling" pretty good to me.

rick:eek:

Alex Lancaster
01-03-2004, 10:14 AM
Hi:

We used a lot of our 4530 variants in the 80īs, for permanent disco installs, IMHO the 2205 and E140īs worked best, I would use 2226's today.

For the compression chamber, 1" fglass worked fine.

We used also "resonators", 8'x2'x1.6', 3/4" particle board, no bracing, with a 2205 inside, laid down as benches, and I guess they made people happy with a real kick at about 35 and (not to) 70Hz, cut off at 200Hz.

Alex.

pangea
01-03-2004, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by Alex Lancaster
Hi:

We used a lot of our 4530 variants in the 80īs, for permanent disco installs, IMHO the 2205 and E140īs worked best, I would use 2226's today.

For the compression chamber, 1" fglass worked fine.

We used also "resonators", 8'x2'x1.6', 3/4" particle board, no bracing, with a 2205 inside, laid down as benches, and I guess they made people happy with a real kick at about 35 and (not to) 70Hz, cut off at 200Hz.

Alex.


Hi Alex!

Could you elaborate and be a bit more specific please? Particularly on "resonators", "1" fiberglass" (how and where) and on "benches".

You see, I'm like "Inga from Sweden", I'm also from Sweden and need to have it laid out in simple terms and most of us here do not even know about inches. We have always measured in millimeters.


BR
Roland :confused:

pangea
01-03-2004, 10:45 AM
Hi again Alex!

I forgot to ask.
Why would the 2226 be better than the 2227?
Isn't the 2227 closer to the 2220 than the 2226?

BR
Roland

Ralf
01-03-2004, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by pangea
Hi again Alex!

I forgot to ask.
Why would the 2226 be better than the 2227?
Isn't the 2227 closer to the 2220 than the 2226?

BR
Roland

In my own 4530 I also used the 2226HPL because the kick is a little bit smoother, but they have a enormous power reserve. You don`t blow it so quick...

I would not take fglass because of the wind velocity in the horn mouth particles are drug along. And that`s not good for your Lung in the long term...So best for me is Burl foam material.

And for all, who don`t know: 1" is 2,54 cm :thmbsup:

Greetings
Ralf

Alex Lancaster
01-03-2004, 02:41 PM
Pangea:

If You can understand my fairly horrible drawing, You can see that it is a Helmholtz resonator tuned to about 35Hz, with a 70Hz harmonic, if You sit on it, the vibrations will get to Yr derriere and associated parts, specially with that big "coffin lid" with no bracing, I canīt take credit for it, it was an in-house JBL trick, with scientific biological reasons.

About the 4530:

JBL recommended specifically the 2205 and E140, check out the 1980 catalog; You could use just about any 15" JBL, but the 2231 would be a waste, the length of the horn makes for about 80Hz, the 2220 and E130 did not kick so nicely at 40Hz, and the E145 was less efficient, remember we are talking disco, not Hi-Fi.

So the 2227 is of course more like a 2220, but We want "kick" donīt We?

The 1" fglass was used only on the chamber behind the woofer, not close to the throat; I guess batting would work too.

Alex Lancaster
01-03-2004, 02:54 PM
I have been trying to post the drawing; I get a message that it is too big, Iīve posted color pics before and this is just a drawing of a box.

HELP, Alex.

boputnam
01-03-2004, 03:16 PM
Hey, Alex...

Are you posting a .bmp or .jpg? Trry saving it to a .jpg and see if that works. Alternatively, if you can, print it to Adobe .pdf (option on many windows systems these days) and then attach that to the post.

You could email me and I'll try some tricks, too.

boputnam
01-03-2004, 03:17 PM
Aw, Giskard! That was too good a post to toast! You cracked me-up! Too goofy for words. :rotfl:

pangea
01-03-2004, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by Alex Lancaster
Pangea:

If You can understand my fairly horrible drawing, You can see that it is a Helmholtz resonator tuned to about 35Hz, with a 70Hz harmonic, if You sit on it, the vibrations will get to Yr derriere and associated parts, specially with that big "coffin lid" with no bracing, I canīt take credit for it, it was an in-house JBL trick, with scientific biological reasons.

About the 4530:

JBL recommended specifically the 2205 and E140, check out the 1980 catalog; You could use just about any 15" JBL, but the 2231 would be a waste, the length of the horn makes for about 80Hz, the 2220 and E130 did not kick so nicely at 40Hz, and the E145 was less efficient, remember we are talking disco, not Hi-Fi.

So the 2227 is of course more like a 2220, but We want "kick" donīt We?

The 1" fglass was used only on the chamber behind the woofer, not close to the throat; I guess batting would work too.

Hmmm... Helmholz... "coffin lid"... hmmm. I know what a coffin lid is though. I'm not sure I follow, but that's alright.

Yes we want "kick" and lot's of it.
Why the distinction? Why can't one have "kick" in Hi-Fi at home?

BR
Roland

pangea
01-03-2004, 04:45 PM
Hi Ralf!

What's the difference between the 2226H and the 2226HPL?

BR
Roland

Alex Lancaster
01-03-2004, 06:58 PM
Bo: Thanks, my bro is coming over tomorrow, and He is a wiz, I tried in .jpg, I think my scanner wants too much resolution.

Pangea:

Look for "Helmholtz" in any encyclopaedia, -or the web-.

Sure We want kick, but a lot of music goes lower than 40Hz, and a 4530 wonīt do, unless You add some 2242 subs, -ask Giskard-.

"PL" is protector-less, about $4 less for not having the rubber tire around the magnet.

Alex.

Charley Rummel
01-03-2004, 11:25 PM
Hi, All:

The 2227 as short lived as it was, had good T/S perameters for horn applications. It failed more for the wrong reasons than any other. In the USA, bass reflex applications are very popular these days. Call it economics or whatever - I'm too smashed right now to get into heated conversation - horn products are downplayed BIG TIME in the USA these days.

Regards,
Charley

Alex Lancaster
01-05-2004, 01:58 PM
Hope it works!

Alex.

Ralf
01-06-2004, 12:39 AM
Originally posted by Alex Lancaster
Hope it works!

Alex.

Hi Alex,

you mean this?

Alex Lancaster
01-06-2004, 08:02 AM
xactly!!, You can put the port anywhere near the end, my sketch was too hasty. Yours is better.

Alex.

Ralf
01-06-2004, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by Alex Lancaster
xactly!!, You can put the port anywhere near the end, my sketch was too hasty. Yours is better.

Alex.

Hi Alex,

Did you ever hear this construction?

What is with the frequencies between the octaves? I believe that it will sound strange, if only certain frequencies are audible.

Alex Lancaster
01-06-2004, 12:25 PM
Hi Ralf:

Yeah, We made some, in addition to the normal system, and all they did was bang at the desired freq, and vibrate Your seat, We cut them off at 150Hz, I think, but they were not "speakers" at all, but Disco music at the time had a lot of 70Hz, so people liked them as a luxury on top of the normal system; I wonder what happened to them, this was 20+ years ago.

Alex.

Ralf
01-06-2004, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by Alex Lancaster
Hi Ralf:

Yeah, We made some, in addition to the normal system, and all they did was bang at the desired freq, and vibrate Your seat, We cut them off at 150Hz, I think, but they were not "speakers" at all, but Disco music at the time had a lot of 70Hz, so people liked them as a luxury on top of the normal system; I wonder what happened to them, this was 20+ years ago.

Alex.

Hi Alex,

which speaker? Originally this construction was designed for the 2245H. And which co-ordination frequency did you select? 70Hz? Isn't this system meant for particularly deep frequencies? For example 20/40 Hz...

Charley Rummel
01-06-2004, 04:55 PM
Many years ago, an acquaintence of mine described an air coupler design which he built into his livingroom floor (around the mid 1950's), where the floor joists and the flooring served as three sides, and then a fourth panel in the basement ceiling enclosed the device. The chamber was 8 feet long, with the vent opening through the floor much like an air duct register, complete with grill.

Unlike the design shown here, which has a partition down the middle of the chamber with the driver mounted on it, this design had no interior partition. Instead, the driver was mounted from the basement side with the edge approximately 2 inches from the vent. The back of the driver was unenclosed.

He claimed that the device was able to reach frequencies well below 20 Hz.

Regards,
Charley

bigcat
04-08-2006, 02:28 PM
My project is to put a E140 in 4530 I'm a musician I'ts for playing keyboards ...any opinions ... regards.

scott fitlin
04-08-2006, 04:26 PM
We had upsized versions of the JBL 4520 made wayyyy back in `77. Originally we used CV 18,s and went to the JBL E-155 shortly thereafter, and later in the 80,s to the JBL 2240.

And I still use them to this day, corner loaded, and everybody loves them. They KICK, and have that nice sound from the rear horn loading. In one word, they make music.

I sometimes think that JBL would be smart to re-introduce some of these vintage legends, with drivers made for the cabinets.

And before anybody says no one will buy this type of stuff anymore, let me be the first to let you know, the Reggae guys still build plenty of scoops for their bottom end use.

Would be a good thing for selling to permanent installs that want this type of sound.

boputnam
04-09-2006, 07:06 PM
Hey, Ralf...

You still watching this thread? I just got to wondering - how did you wire these? The E-130's would be a different polarity than the EON's.