I Just Found Some L200b's, and My Wife is Thrilled!

[SMKSoundPro]

Dear Forum Members,

My wife came to my shop yesterday, and said "honey, look what I found." Usually an okay way to start a conversation. She was holding a brand new Porter-Cable Tiger saw in her hands, you know the one, with the adjustable saw blade at different angles. I said thanks and went back to reconing some 2241's. Got to love her!
Then, while in my shop office, she mentioned something about Craig's List. We went onto Craig's List Alaska and were looking in the Musical Instruments and laughing at all of the junk listed. She walked away and I did a search for "Crown" ...nothing; then did a seach for "JBL" and lo and behold the listing said "JBL - L200, make offer."
I emailed the guy, he emailed back that they are here in Anchorage, and have been in storage, unused for 5 years. Lisa and I went over to his church/studio and had them out of there in ten minutes! The owner bought them eight years ago from the same JBL shop I worked for for 17 years.
We opened them and cleaned them until 1am this morning. They are JBL L200B Serial #10337 & 10339. They have 136 woofers, LE85 drivers, 91horns with their lenses and a N200b crossover in the bottom. No grills, but that doesnt bother us at all!
The foam on the 136's is very fragile, but completely intact. I have not hooked them up, yet;but will probably put in some reconed 2235's until I fix the 136's.

I don't want to gloat on this score, but have been blessed by the buy of a lifetime. I know you may want to know the price.

wait for it...$600/pr. I gave him $700 just because.

I am looking for some advice on reconing the 136 as a 2235, or re-foaming the 136.
I am looking for some advice on adding a 2405 slot and 3105 xover I have, or to leave them as they are.

Please help!
I read the postings almost daily, and am available to saavy advice.

Thank You!
Scott M. Koeller
SMKSoundPro.com

[Zilch]

As long as they're still working, refoam the 136s. 2235H will play just fine in the meantime.

L200 was the "Quintessential Rock 'n' Roll" speaker. L200B carried the rising midrange to an extreme, into the HF:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=133790#post133790

There's no UHF, though. If you want to add that with a slot, cut it in on the centerline above the horn/lens. You'll want to disable the HF boost in the N200B crossovers and add on 3105s for the slots. That'll tame most of the rising midrange coloration, and render them listenable.

If you're up to building crossovers from scratch, there's several alternatives for enhanced L200s in these forums. For a real quality result with the exponential horn, consider means to fit the longer H92 in there for conversion to quasi-L300. That'll likely mean cutting room for it through the rear panel.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=139107&postcount=7

If you just want nasty loud party speakers, leave 'em be.... :D

[SMKSoundPro]

Dear Zilch,

Thank you for the response!

My eyes are getting buggy reading all of the posts and info on 200's.

I really don't have a purpose for these, yet, or a hi-fi room for them, but thought it was a good score.

I have the 2105's and 3105's sitting here on a shelf, and thought they would be a good marriage.

I donot have the schematic for the xover, but will continue to search for one.

Probably will use these at my shop above the nightclub, and drive them with Crown Macro 600, 1200 or 2400; or Yamaha P-2200 with meters; or I have a Hafler 500 on a shelf; or my Fisher 800b with 7591's... Any other suggestions? I also have my Dynaco Mark III's with Amperex 6550's or Sovtek KT88's.

I really appreciate your time and advice!
Scott.

[SEAWOLF97]

nice find. how much does 700 Alaskan dollars convert to in lower 48 dollars ? :)

[Zilch]

I do not have the schematic for the xover, but will continue to search for one.Go to the last link on the main forum page, "JBL Consumer Tech Sheet Links," and you'll find L200B there.

Remove any of the three components at the bottom of the schematic (1 uF. 0.16 mH, 5 Ohms) to disable the boost.


I have the 2105's and 3105's sitting here on a shelf, and thought they would be a good marriage.I assume you mean 2405s, not 2105s, Scott.... :thmbsup:

[SMKSoundPro]

Dear Members,

Lisa and I just got home from the nightclub where we hauled them upstairs to my shop. We changed out the blk & red push terminals on the back with larger wire gauge ones that came off of some McCaulley 6256 baskets. Then removed the very fragile 136's, and replaced them with some coned up 2235h in stock.

We fired them up with a Crown Macro 2400 and IC150 combo and I was immediately depressed. They did not sound anything like I thought they would. I thought we should try low-fi and used a Pioneer SX-737 I have. The tonal quality was warmer, and not so in your face. We were listening to a cd I burned from BWB. It has a great jazzy/bluesy version of "Ruby, Baby." After that Lisa and I tried the 2405/3105 combo but quickly found that the more I backed the l-pad down, of course, the 2405 followed.

Then I hooked the cd player into my Ramsa WR-4412 mixer, DBX 2231 eq, DBX 120xp Sub Synth and Macro 2400. Then to really throw in a curve, put on K.D. Lang's Ingenue album. She/He has some pretty sultry vocals, and at which point one of our security guards Tammy came up and smiled! I definitely made some serious points with all of the lesbians!

Question:
1. Does adding the 2405 help?
Answer: Yes.
2. Is there any advantage to tri-amping using my Rane 34, or DBX driverack product?
3. Why does the woofers pop loudly when turned up?

Thank you for all of your advice.
Scott.

[SMKSoundPro]

Dear Members,

Lisa and I just got home from the nightclub where we hauled them upstairs to my shop. We changed out the blk & red push terminals on the back with larger wire gauge ones that came off of some McCaulley 6256 baskets. Then removed the very fragile 136's, and replaced them with some coned up 2235h in stock.

We fired them up with a Crown Macro 2400 and IC150 combo and I was immediately depressed. They did not sound anything like I thought they would. I thought we should try low-fi and used a Pioneer SX-737 I have. The tonal quality was warmer, and not so in your face. We were listening to a cd I burned from BWB. It has a great jazzy/bluesy version of "Ruby, Baby." After that Lisa and I tried the 2405/3105 combo but quickly found that the more I backed the l-pad down, of course, the 2405 followed.

Then I hooked the cd player into my Ramsa WR-4412 mixer, DBX 2231 eq, DBX 120xp Sub Synth and Macro 2400. Then to really throw in a curve, put on K.D. Lang's Ingenue album. She/He has some pretty sultry vocals, and at which point one of our security guards Tammy came up and smiled! I definitely made some serious points with all of the lesbians!

Question:
1. Does adding the 2405 help?
Answer: Yes.
2. Is there any advantage to tri-amping using my Rane 34, or DBX driverack product?
3. Why does the woofers pop loudly when turned up?

Thank you for all of your advice.
Scott.

[SMKSoundPro]

nice find. how much does 700 Alaskan dollars convert to in lower 48 dollars ? :)
By the way, our ALASKAN dollars are definitely worth more as WE have LOTS of oil!!!

Greenies and tree huggers GO HOME!

The problem is we have lots of greenies and tree huggers, too.

Our state motto during the pipeline days (1975-1980) was "texan go home and take an Okie under each arm.

Now its... Alaska... where you don't lose your girl...you just lose your turn!

Signed,
SourDough Scotty.

[Zilch]

Let's be sure you have them wired correctly:

1) The red and white/black wires from the N200B crossover that used to go to the LE85 go to the input of the 3105.

2) The LF ouput of the 3105 connects to the LE85.

3) The HF output of the 3105 connects to the 2405.

4) The woofer stays connected to the N200B as originally wired.

The mid and UHF drivers are cascaded. As you found, adjusting the control on the L200B changes them both, so you set the balance between the mid and UHF using the control on the 3105, and then the balance with the woofer using the control on the L200B. That way, it's easy to get the optimum balance.

As to "popping" of 2235H, that shouldn't happen unless you're playing really friggin' loud. You have the 3105/2405 external, no? With the wires running out the port? 'Cause the other drivers have to be sealed in place for the box to damp 2235H cone movement. Are both woofers doing it?

I did have a similar experience with an old L200, but traced it to a dried out and failing glue joint at the interior top edge of the front baffle. It was the cabinet making the noise, not the woofer. I cleaned it up with a utility knife and redid it with Gorilla glue. Been fine since....

[majick47]

Scott you have a fun pair of large JBLs that with a little patience will sound great. I have two pairs of L200b and when I added the 2405 tweeters and 3106 crossovers Zilch was pulling his hair out trying to make me understand how to wire in the crossover. After the L200b were correctly wired they sounded excellent. My second pair of L200b looked something like yours, prior life was in a studio or club/bar, painted black, bases removed and holes drilled for hanging from the ceiling. I removed the paint, cleaned them up and reoiled them and they don't look bad. I have mine powered by a Yamaha pro amp PC-2002 (240 watts x 2) and they sound very respectable and are a great rock speaker. You would be surprised how good they will look with a little touch up of the cabinets and cleaning/oiling. Also you can install some wheels on the bottoms to get them off the floor 4-6". The grills were actually window screens and the material can be purchased at Home Depot etc or you can make wood frames and cover them with Zilchs original JBL blue grill cloth. Enjoy, Rich.

[toddalin]

The grills were actually window screens and the material can be purchased at Home Depot etc or you can make wood frames and cover them with Zilchs original JBL blue grill cloth. Enjoy, Rich.


Or you could just use a nice black grill cloth on a 3/4" x 3/4" frame.

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/speaker1.jpg

[SMKSoundPro]

Dear Members,

Yes, I wired the xovers exactly as you stated, with the wires hanging out of the port.

Yes, I have a wiring diagram for the 3105 to be used across a 2441/2405, and yes, I have done this before.

This is NOT the first time I have experienced 2235 popping. It almost sounds as if the mass loading ring is running up against the top plate, or that a cap is letting loose in the xover. I built a pair of boxes in 1990 that were a 2235/ 2118 mid in sonotube/ 2404 tweet in an EN5 size of cabinet for smaller dj jobs. KB and I hand built the xover and made them fullrange or biamp with the flip of a switch. He used his Ivie 30 band analyzer and toiled over the xovers! They were very flat and had very deep range. BUT, when I took them out for a job in a small pub/bar wedd recept and using my Yamaha biamp rack ( P2200 w meters & P2100, JBL 5232 xover w/ 250 cards) the woofers would start popping with this harsh metallic sound when playing the "hits" of the day. You know...MC Hammer - Can't touch this, Wild Thing, Funky Cold Medina...

Bottom line is... I have always wondered about a 2235 and its box tuning, and excurstion parameters. I ended putting these two cabinets, covered in brown carpeting, in the back of my Ford Aerostar and powering with a large yahama car amp fullrange. My then girlfriend loved the sound of my car and married me 4 years later. She still loves these "carpets" and I have them sitting up in my shop NEVER happy with them or their performance. I have since removed the passive hand-built/tuned xovers and installed EP6 connectors on the back to wire to a triamp rack consisting of a Yamaha P2200/low;p2100/mid;p2050/high using a rane 34b active xover. Someday I will finish this.

I will make a pair of grill frames out of 1x1 clear pine, like usual and cover them with this fabric that Lisa found that we use on our 4 EN8 cabs for partys and jobs.

Thanks,
Scott

[SMKSoundPro]

Second thought:

I'll try a new pair of diaphrams in the 2405's. I received this pair in a tradeout years ago, and have no idea of their internal condition.

Also got a pair of 2441's and hartsfield horns and 2310? lenses combo in that trade.

And...a new JBL 5232 xover w/800hz - 18db/oct. cards, and a new Yamaha P2050 amp.

All that for a pair of JBL 4612OK speakers that Lisa and I had scarped off the plastic veneer and painted black to use at weddings on stands.
(I originally had them painted white and hanging in Lisa's Jazzercize studio. Man, those were the days!)

All in all... a really good score.

Now what to do with these 2441/ hartsfield horn/lense assemblies?

Scott.

[Zilch]

Thoughts:

1) 2235H is not a sound reinforcement woofer.

2) If L200Bs sound terrible, different 2405 diaphragms aren't gonna fix that.

[SMKSoundPro]

Thoughts:

1) 2235H is not a sound reinforcement woofer.

2) If L200Bs sound terrible, different 2405 diaphragms aren't gonna fix that.

1. Point quite well taken.

2. Its not that L200b sound terrible, just have not found the right genre of music for them, yet. (only had a couple cd's at the shop on saturday night, and lisa was more interested in watching a PAC10 ball game.

In Summary: I will get a chance to find a space for these, play my own personal grooves on them, and either embrace them.

Thanks all!
Scott.

[Robh3606]

Have you considered that the LE-85's could be beat to death from years of bar abuse???

Rob:)

[mbottz]

Maybe you could fix me up!! :D


MB

[SMKSoundPro]

Have you considered that the LE-85's could be beat to death from years of bar abuse???

Rob:)
Dear Rob,

Actually, these L200b's are a very closely matched pair of serial numbers (10337 & 10339) and am convinced they led a very sheltered life being brother and sister speakers. All of the other serial numbers on the indivdual parts are as close, also.

I bought them from a man that has a recording studio in his church/home. Apparently from a cancerous medical condition, needs to move outside in 10 days and listed them locally on craig's list on Thursday. I had them in my (7 passenger chariot of romance) minivan by 10 pm Friday night. The owner, Don, had not used them for 5 years, storing them in his dusty, dirty garage.

Before Don, they were owned by a local Sound Labs shop whom I worked for, for 17 years and who taught me an aweful lot about the rock & roll sound business and then about a sober life. We had a falling out 8 years ago...so I knew what kind of speaker job I was looking at. KB does excellant work. Always has, always will. We just don't talk and share ideas anymore.

The le85's are VERY strong and cut through like nothing I recall. The L200b sounds VERY bright to me, but I play dance music for parties, then Frank, Bobbie Caldwell, Big PHat Band, Paul Anka's new album-Rock Swings, for my own solitude.

I am going to try some different hi-fi amps to see what I like the best. If I don't like them, I can always put them downstairs in the main bar and let the bar patrons rock out to them....

NO! not really.

Scott.

[SMKSoundPro]

Maybe you could fix me up!! :D


MB
YES!!!

She has two older sisters that are SINGLE. roughly around the 47 & 51 year range.

First one - NO KIDS/baggage:applaud:

Second one - Two adult brilliant squids, and She is a rocket scientist!

Come to Alaska...see earlier post. (losing turn...etc):bouncy:

[Zilch]

The L200b sounds VERY bright to me.They are stupid bright, now more politely termed "forward," and you're passing that on to your UHF drivers.

Disable the HF boost, as I suggested above, to tone them down more flat....

[Robh3606]

Hello Scott

One of the reasons I asked is they appear to still have the original taper seals on them. Did the sound shop "reseal" them after a diaphram change or were the original tamper seals lost when they were replaced a diaphram??? If those are original they are 30 years old and they are aluminum. Just something to consider if they sound harsh. Did you try running a sweep on them to make sure they sound clean??

Rob:)

[SMKSoundPro]

Hello Scott

One of the reasons I asked is they appear to still have the original taper seals on them. Did the sound shop "reseal" them after a diaphram change or were the original tamper seals lost when they were replaced a diaphram??? If those are original they are 30 years old and they are aluminum. Just something to consider if they sound harsh. Did you try running a sweep on them to make sure they sound clean??

Rob:)
Dear Rob,

Yes, both le85 have their wax seals intact and I have no reason to think the diaphrams were ever changed. I am betting my lunch money the dia's are original.

No, I did not sweep them. Never even thought about it until now.

I just ran the l-pad back and forth quite a few times. sounds better now.

Right now I'm playing...Camelot Music and GRP present "The Jazz Sampler"...track 12- "C-Jam Blues" - David Grusin.

SOUNDS Great! Bull fiddle for days, Horns in your face. I think I'm getting the hang of these things.

I just opened up the virgin 2405's. Carefully used heatgun to warm and peal the foilcals off. Found that they have been dropped. Pole piece intact and centered, but the center phasing plug twisted by some outside force. The voice coil was fine, but the alum looks a jiffy pop container.

Note to self...order D162405 diaphrams.

2. check internals of the 3105's. came from same guy.

Question: Is there any audible advantage to changing the diaphrams in the le85 to something newer?

Note to Zilch: Yes I will cut the hf element in the hp circuit, once I mount the 2405's in the baffle board. Thank You for the advice!

[majick47]

I read that your useing the 3105 crossover for the 2405 tweeters, I have 3106 crossovers for my 2405. Not sure, Zilch correct me, the 3110 crossover can also be used. My second pair of L200b from a studio/bar, the LE85 sounded excellent, still had the red seals intact, guessing they are all original. My first pair of L200b, one of the LE85 diaphrams was shot, replaced both with JBL, cost around $450, kept the good LE85 diaphram as a backup. Also new JBL diaphrams in the two pairs of 2405 and they sound real smooth. All the crossovers (L200b/3106) were checked out and parts were replaced as needed. Also had to have all four 136a woofers reconed/refoamed. Finished them off with foam grills from Sonofagun (maroon and blue). All in all they are quite a decent sounding large JBL speaker and compared to the going prices of 43XX, L300 etc the L200b are still very affordable.

[SMKSoundPro]

I read that your useing the 3105 crossover for the 2405 tweeters, I have 3106 crossovers for my 2405. Not sure, Zilch correct me, the 3110 crossover can also be used. My second pair of L200b from a studio/bar, the LE85 sounded excellent, still had the red seals intact, guessing they are all original. My first pair of L200b, one of the LE85 diaphrams was shot, replaced both with JBL, cost around $450, kept the good LE85 diaphram as a backup. Also new JBL diaphrams in the two pairs of 2405 and they sound real smooth. All the crossovers (L200b/3106) were checked out and parts were replaced as needed. Also had to have all four 136a woofers reconed/refoamed. Finished them off with foam grills from Sonofagun (maroon and blue). All in all they are quite a decent sounding large JBL speaker and compared to the going prices of 43XX, L300 etc the L200b are still very affordable.

I am currently looking for 3106 xovers for the 2405s.

I just ordered new d16r2405 diaphrams.

Am looking for a recommendation for 136 refoam kit.

Still wondering if there is a different diaphram to use in the le85, or leave them alone...wax intact.

Is it advised to build a clone of the 3106 network with new parts from Partsexxpress and mount inside?

(I can always keep these 3105s to go with the 2441/2309/2310 Hartsfield horns that I have and use for a later project, or turnover to someone.)

I'm currently tracking the 48 2402 & 2405s closing on ebay in the next couple of hours. If I can get a couple to put on a shelf, I will.

I would like to more about the foam grills.

Thank You!!!

Scott.