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SEAWOLF97
01-05-2007, 06:18 PM
remember this old thread ??

Perfect Speaker? Let's hear your vote!

and my answer was

OHM F.

(guess I haven't heard many super high ends).....

then Ken answers

There's a ghost from the past.....I have not seen a pair of those in many years.



I had only seen 1 pair in my life..They were so good , that I never forgot them. Kinda rare, and the ones for sale are torn up or unrepairable.

Well, pulled the trigger on a set today. (at about 1k under going rate)...they are in about 98 percent cosmetic and 100 percent functional.

The story goes...seller did some landscaping work for an old man. Didn't have enough for the bill. Paid in cash plus this set of OHM F's. Seller only wanted the difference that he didn't get in cash.
I called about 5 minutes after the ad went up. Seller says phone started going crazy after I called. He took lookers in order as you should.

Hauled them home and hooked them up after an inspection. WOW , I know its heresy but they dwarf the 4410's

specsP1972 - 1984 originally $900 - $3995 per paird100 - 200 watts )4 ohms 37 - 17,000z
87 dB

from the web

The Ohm F was the most popular of the first generation Walsh speakers. It used a 12'' inverted omnidirectional driver operating from 35 - 17,000 Hz. The Ohm Fs were internationally recognized as ''one of the best...if... not the best...speaker in the world''. It received reviews from as far away as Australia and Thailand as well as throughout Europe and America.

pics

briang
01-05-2007, 06:27 PM
Awesome story Seawolf.:applaud:

I've not seen a pair of Ohm speakers in 25 years. Nice find.:)

SEAWOLF97
01-05-2007, 06:37 PM
Awesome story Seawolf.:applaud:

I've not seen a pair of Ohm speakers in 25 years. Nice find.:)

Oh yeah , he said (fwiw) that the old man told him that he had them restored before putting them in storage. With all drivers working perfectly, I guess I believe him.

clmrt
01-05-2007, 09:40 PM
So, what you see is the back side of a seriously deep, down-firing 12" driver cone?

And that's all there is to it?:blink:

SEAWOLF97
01-05-2007, 10:45 PM
So, what you see is the back side of a seriously deep, down-firing 12" driver cone?

And that's all there is to it?:blink:

not really. they radiate in waves off the back side of the cone, which doesn't move. read up on ohm walsh design , really quite innovative.

http://www.ohmspeakers.com/coherentlinesourcedriver.cfm

loach71
01-06-2007, 01:11 PM
I have an original set of Ohm F's. They are an interesting speaker.
Make sure you get a power amp with huge current drive capability -- these speakers have some nasty impedance troughs.

Have fun with your new toys.

Thom
01-06-2007, 01:49 PM
I'm not saying I wouldn't grab a pair if I could at the right price, but only for historical significance. Wasn't there performance very subjective even in their prime? And aren't they about 75db 1w/1m. Actually I have tried to land a pair a couple of times but mainly because they are something out of HiFi history. Congratulations on your find. Doesn't Walsh still service them for a price?

SEAWOLF97
01-06-2007, 02:54 PM
And aren't they about 75db 1w/1m. Doesn't Walsh still service them for a price?

87 dB

walsh does not service them. They keep same cabinet and sell you a can driver. Ohm allows $3,995 trade in value to wards new speakers.

Had a bad head cold and woke up at 4am today, could not get back to sleep. So.. got up to do the big (44inches, 70 pounds) Ohms.

Put on new binding posts that will accept monster wire. repainted the black base. re glued some joints on the tents, picked white paint splatters off the walnut and tents , oxycleaned the fabric, scratch covered the veneer and lemon oiled them.

My objective opinion is WOW !! these guys are very airy. wonderfully imaging . thunderous bass when program calls for it. striking appearance.
Had to dial back the EQ settings that were set for the 4412s.
have you ever heard a pair of speakers 25+ years ago and never forgot them as you were so impressed.?? That 1977 demo was the first and only time I had even seen these in my life. (until yeaterday). Vowed that if I ever saw a pair in good shape at a reasonable price, I would get em'. (kinda like I did with my high school dream Porsche)

Mr. Widget
01-06-2007, 05:10 PM
My objective opinion is WOW !!
Congratulations... I'd love to give a pair a listen, but I assume you meant, your subjective opinion.:D



Had to dial back the EQ settings that were set for the 4412s.You should remove the equalizer from your system completely and allow them to impress you... it might take a day or two for you to "retrain" your ears. After you really get a handle on their sound, you may want to return to the equalizer, but I expect you will hear the sonic signature of the equalizer and you may prefer the unequalized sound... your Ohm speakers are quite revealing and may show you short comings in other parts of your system.

Widget

SEAWOLF97
01-06-2007, 05:52 PM
your Ohm speakers are quite revealing and may show you short comings in other parts of your system.

Widget

THanx Mr.W

I decided to educate myself quickly on these and have been reading for the last hour.
They are 4 ohm. The Marantz 2230 was up so I am using that. It sounds great, but I know that it is not recommended. Have run at low volumes today as not want to get into clipping situation. Looks like tomorrow the Marantz comes off line and the Denon 110wpc goes back in. Too bad, since I really like the 2230

I like reading reviews and clipped some of what I just read. Close this out if not interested.

There is no loudspeaker as pure in it's design as the Ohm F. With no crossovers to introduce distortion and time delay, expect to hear the sweetest,smoothest sound you can imagine from a loudspeaker. To pick an experience, listening to pipe organ music, one gets the feeling that these speakers are alive and breathing. You truly feel the air moving through the organ, These are not speakers, they are musical instruments.
With the speakers properly positioned in the room, you can expect the widest and deepest sound stage that you've ever heard ( so long as the electronics are up to the task ). Instruments and notes float like you've never heard before. Comparing this type of presentation to ANY box speaker is pointless. Some e-stat's and planars come close in terms of dimensionality and air but typically lack the bass authority that the F's so handily demonstrate
Strengths:
widest & deepest soundstage of any speaker made, maintains tonal balance even at low volume, extremely solid bass foundation, seamless midrange, revealing treble, etc...
Weaknesses:
Will not play "super" loud, driver "warbles" presenting vibrato effect if trying to reproduce deep bass notes at high volume levels, internal wiring is HORRIBLE, binding posts are junk, not forgiving of poor electronics at all, requires high QUALITY amplification but not necessarily high power for best results, very low impedance that they present to amps, more difficult to optimally position than more conventional speakers, etc...
Similar Products Used:
There is NOTHING similar. Currently own speakers from the following companies / designers with most of them having slight tweaks or upgrades performed to them: AR 9's & 90's in my HT system, Nestorovic, Genesis, Klipsch ( La Scala's and Heresy's ), various E-stat's, a few custom built designs, etc...
When set up properly (several feet from a wall) and powered with a decent amp the F produced a HUGH soundstage that correctly replicated live music. The imaging was astounding, not necessarily "pinpoint", but a realistic portrayal of
live music.
Incredibly smooth, natural, seamless sound with a very "high-end" quality to it. Can listen for hours on end without tiring. They sound full and natural even at very low listening levels... remarkable.

jim campbell
01-06-2007, 06:28 PM
nice grab dude.hang onto that horse shoe

SEAWOLF97
01-06-2007, 08:15 PM
nice grab dude.hang onto that horse shoe

yup. 2 days ago got 13inch JVC TV with remote on CL for $5. Today got HP laserjet 4L in box for $5. both work great.

last OHM F's went for $1150+$200 shipping on eBay. I paid exactly 10 percent of that. Guess I can post the ad now that done. :bouncy:

Ohm Walsh Speakers earily 80's style (Sound Great) - $135


(Ohm speakers)12 inch, 4 ohms, 100 watts, Great condition, deep bass, the speakers cost like 2,000 each back in the 80's top of the line. if intersted call steve at 503-xxx-xxxx please leave a message, night work best or email. $135 for the pair.

http://d.im.craigslist.org/ir/0M/yuuJEJ6SXTKHgsPJtq1QHIlGy2pd.jpg

SEAWOLF97
01-07-2007, 10:33 AM
Funny thing is that the prior owner was trying to run them with an Aiwa boombox. he wired L and R speaker wires togeather to 1 speaker. (but did use Monster cable)

Didn't sound too good :blink:

FWIW: I actually turned down a discount. He offered to give me $10 off for gas due to the 20 mile drive. I figured $135 was good enough already. :applaud:

JBLRaiser
01-07-2007, 01:15 PM
Funny thing is that the prior owner was trying to run them with an Aiwa boombox. he wired L and R speaker wires togeather to 1 speaker. (but did use Monster cable)

Didn't sound too good :blink:

FWIW: I actually turned down a discount. He offered to give me $10 off for gas due to the 20 mile drive. I figured $135 was good enough already. :applaud: wouldn't it do your heart good to take the other 90% down to the Salvation Army and spread the joy around?:hmm:

SEAWOLF97
01-07-2007, 01:51 PM
wouldn't it do your heart good to take the other 90% down to the Salvation Army and spread the joy around?:hmm:

:wtf: does one have to do with the other ?

a private transaction between 2 consenting adults.

Just for your gratification, I will tell you that I donate at least 10X more than any normal person. In addition to my donations, being the only person in the family with a truck, I also donate my brothers items and the in-laws items too. Now you know.

Storm
01-07-2007, 03:40 PM
Seawolf,

Can you not take jokes? Apparently not!

Calm down.

-Storm.

SEAWOLF97
01-07-2007, 04:33 PM
Congratulations... I'd love to give a pair a listen Widget

Mr W.
If you ever get to Portland , we'll hook up and demo them. heck. I'll even buy lunch , you've helped me out so much already. :applaud:

Just swapped the Denon for the Marantz powering them. Now they really sing. I've never heard big JBL 43XX & 44XX series, so I can't compare, but these ARE the best speakers I've ever heard. Closest to LIVE as I've experienced without "being there"

SEAWOLF97
01-07-2007, 05:44 PM
So, what you see is the back side of a seriously deep, down-firing 12" driver cone?

And that's all there is to it?:blink:

heres the real answer , from eBay guides ...


A short course on these amazing loudspeakers. I will try to limit my comments and just hit the highlights since there is so much depth in the subject of speakers in general.
Theory: The Walsh speaker, actually introduced in 1973 / 74 (I sold the first pair to be sold locally to an architect in SF back then) is based on transmission line theory. Briefly the concept is that the acoustic wave generated by the driver, travels down the tapered cone and terminates in the resonant cavity (bottom enclosure) with no reflections running back up the cone [and therefore not out into the room either], i.e standard transmission line theory. Note that the speaker is faced down toward the floor, with the driver sitting on top at the narrowest part of the cone and the wide end of the cone is at the bottom coupled to the sealed enclosure. The radiating surface is then the backside of the cone when compared to a 'standard' speaker and thus radiates an omnidirectional wavefront [i.e. 360 deg] out into the room. That was a unique design concept and was patented by Lincoln Walsh and is major factor in the incredible aural imaging qualities these speakers have. It is a real shame he did not live to see it become reality. Further unique characterisitics are, these were the first and only speaker of the day to be (a) phase coherent and (b) without passive or active crossovers, the crossover was in the construction of the cone itself. Later KEF and other manufacturers, like those utilizing air-motion-transformers and flat panel electostatic technology, imitated "time alignment" by staggering the conventional outward facing speakers in an attempt to achieve the same effect. [Note: electrostatics actually do achieve good time alignment but suffer from narrow spacial imaging] The Walsh was the one true phase coherent speaker and was achieved by a simple and ingenious technique: The slope angle, or taper, of the cone was calculated such that the wave traveling down the cone face was in phase with the acoustic wave emminating out into the room, thus achieving phase coherence. In other words the resulting wavefront [radiating into the room] was in coincidence across the spectrum. That brings us to the crossovers, or actually, lack thereof. There are 3 sections in the long vertical cone, arrived at after long and laborious testing. The high frquency material is a titanium alloy (which contributed to their high cost, and ultimately their being pulled off the market as being too costly and labor intensive to produce), the second is stainless steel for the midrange and the 3rd is heavy paper cone material for low end. The high frequencies radiate outward at the top, titanium (smaller diameter) end, the midrange from the stainless section, and the bass at the lower paper part of the cone. This speaker was hailed as having the smoothest frequency response of any speaker (+/- 4dB down to 20Hz) in that era. By the way, prior to Ohm Acoustic launching the Model F, they launched the humongous Model A, which I have never seen or heard [but would love to] other than in print. The responder who mentioned the point about how power hungry the F's are is correct. It should also be pointed out that an amp with very high damping factor is also a big plus, in that the speaker mass on loud low end passages needs heavy dampening to keep it from "ringing" and will result in making that beautiful musical bottom end really come alive, not just a whump, so common in today's systems.
Cautions: One important point, be very careful in chosing an amp for these speakers - they hate DC (e.g. driving the amp into flatline distortion or DC generated during power on/off). Any direct coupled output amp can easily destroy these drivers, they seem to be hyper-sensitive to DC. I have been driving mine since 1977 with 2 MC 275's tube amps, each strapped for mono. With the transformer coupling on the outputs of the MC's, I have never blown a driver, even though I have driven them into distortion many times. Other people I know with Direct Coupled amps have blown the drivers and I believe you cannot get replacements anymore. [I wonder how many F's are still out there making music?]
Repair: I did replace the surrounds a few years ago. I bought a set from a vendor in Audio Mag for $20 and they worked just fine. It's a job that requires a day and a no-hurry mindset but is not technically hard to do. The most important part is the positioning of the new surround on the cone before it's glued AND the positioning lower surround to the speaker frame before it's glued to make sure the alignment of the cone inside the voicecoil is perfect. If it is not done right, piston coil will rub inside the driver and then you'll have real problems. I used masking tape, after applying it to my jeans to take some of the stickiness out, for temporary attachment until the correct position was found. I tested postion by gently pushing the cone up into the voice-coil several times to ensure free, easy movement. I rechecked this as I progressed. Once postioned correctly I used contact cement for an adhesive. Let the cement cure overnight and you are done. Take your time in removing all the old glue and gunk too. Doing good prep is essential and it is the most time consumming part of the job. Feel free to contact me if have further questions/comments. Btw, surrounds are easily found on the web these days.
Placement: Back in the 'good old days' when I had the perfect listening room for these, the ideal set up I found was the following. An ideal room will be about 12 - 15' across the front wall. Place each speaker in the left & right corners but pull them out about 1 foot from each wall diagonally [1 foot to the back and 1 foot to the side] making sure they equidistant from each surface, play with this distance until you find a sweet spot, which will be dependant on the acoustics of the room they are in. At some point, the imaging will come alive and you'll see what all the hooorah is about. Oh yea, one other thing I did but you probably won't want to do, I drilled two 1/2" holes cattycorner in the bottoms of the enclosures and ran a two 1/2" x 6" lag bolts in each speaker down into the hardwood floor - really improved the bass, didn't help the home value so much tho'.... [but they never got stolen either!]
[CV: I have been in the pro audio/video industry for over 35 years, designed/built and maintained many recording facilites and custom consoles and equipment for some the best known performers.]

The Ohm Walsh is a unique speaker that uses the infamous Walsh driver. Unlike a typical dynamic speaker, which uses a cone firing directly into the room, the Walsh driver works by exciting (or energizing) the surface of the driver itself. Lincoln Walsh theorized that a dynamic speaker could never behave like a true "piston", so instead designed his driver to radiate sound by exciting the driver's suface. The lower the frequency, the more of the driver's surface is utilized to radiate the sound into the room. The Walsh driver, most visible in the Model "F", appears similar to a cone driver firing directly into the cabinet, though on the "F" it is considerably larger than most drivers and manufactured using varying materials along the drivers length.
The Walsh driver results in an omnidirectional soundstage, particularly at lower frequencies, that is unique relative to more conventional speakers. Later Walsh speakers used a conventional tweeter, typically a cone, with a crossover to supplement the high frequencies; this radiates into the center of the room when facing the speaker (nominally 45 degrees off center when facing the speaker). Walsh switched from a trapezoidal wood cabinet using real wood veneers to what are referred to as "sound cylinders" to reduce manufacturing and selling costs.
Why such a loyal following on E-bay for the Ohm Walsh? Several. First, these speakers are very unique, both in terms of appearance and sound, relative to "conventional" dynamic speakers. While Ohm is no longer the only manufacturer to make speakers using the Walsh driver, the others doing so now are esoteric, small volume (read: expensive) producers.
Second, Ohm is rather unique in that they still support their entire product line, including crediting the full retail price of the original model towards purchase of a new one. Replacement parts and upgrades are available for their entire product line through their website. How many speaker manufacturers today provide that level of service and support?!
Third, the soundstage provides what Ohm refers to as "full stage stereo"; unlike conventional speakers, the soundstage is very wide and largely independent of the user's position relative to the location of the speakers (in large part because of the omnidirectional driver coupled with the controlled directivity of the tweeter on later models). Personally, I find the effect very appealing. They even work well in a home theater set-up without a center channel, operating with a "phantom" center channel...try that with conventional speakers (the soundstage will often collapse to the speaker you are sitting closest to)!
Issues to look for include the speaker cabinet (the wood veneers used on these models is prone to chipping, as they have sharp, exposed edges, particularly on the lower edge of the cabinet), "foam rot" of the surround (buzzing present, particularly at low frequencies), dented "cans", and improperly repaired or inoperable drivers. Ohm claims that the original Model "F" driver, rather complex in terms of materials and construction, cannot be properly repaired (Ohm does offer other, more modern Walsh drivers that can be utilized in the original cabinets). The grills are often damaged and discolored, though Ohm does offer replacements. Finally, the speakers are rather large and heavy, requiring careful handling and packaging to avoid damage in shipment (Ohm recommends removing the drivers, packing and shipping them separately from the cabinets to reduce risk of damage).

SEAWOLF97
01-07-2007, 10:08 PM
Seawolf,

Can you not take jokes? Apparently not!

Calm down.

-Storm.

Dear Storm:

will you be my humor consultant ?
can I PM you every time I'm in doubt ?
Is your talent a sideline or your full time occupation ?
How did you get so smart in just 22 years ?
































(that was humor , in case you didn't know):)

Storm
01-08-2007, 12:22 AM
Wow, seawolf - you are clever.

No, I just have a strange way of looking at things. Glad we can all voice our opinions without worrying about consequences.

;)

Are you keeping those OHMS or are you going to sell them?

-Storm.

JBLRaiser
01-08-2007, 06:47 AM
:wtf: does one have to do with the other ?

a private transaction between 2 consenting adults.

Just for your gratification, I will tell you that I donate at least 10X more than any normal person. In addition to my donations, being the only person in the family with a truck, I also donate my brothers items and the in-laws items too. Now you know.

After your concern about Portland's GW president, I thought you might want to take some of your mad money and throw the needy a bone.

SEAWOLF97
01-08-2007, 07:38 AM
Are you keeping those OHMS or are you going to sell them?

-Storm.

when you have wanted a certain pair of speakers for 30 years and finally obtain them and they operate and look great ,,,,,,,,,,,,,you keep them
(even if they were unfinished Birch, instead of beautiful walnut veneer)

dont worry, I still have 4412's, 4410's, L36's , L26's ,L100's , P10's and prolly more that I can't remember.

I'd most likely sell the Altec's, if I had some. :bs:

SEAWOLF97
01-08-2007, 07:42 AM
After your concern about Portland's GW president, I thought you might want to take some of your mad money and throw the needy a bone.

would like to throw him a rock . When I donate, I hope my goods are being used to help the needy, not to inflate some executive pay.

Storm
01-08-2007, 11:16 AM
Seawolf -

Why do you need all those speakers? Do you have one pair in each room of your house?

Why would you sell Altecs?

I was only asking a simple question, no need to get hostile.

BTW: In my opnion, the unfinished birch is WAY more attractive than any Walnut veneer. Just because it sold for cheaper, does not mean it is cheaper. I would easily say it is worth 10% more than regular 846B walnut.

-Storm.

jblnut
01-08-2007, 01:19 PM
Our old guitar player had a pair of these. I was very impressed with their overall sound and imaging. Sort of like what a 901 should have been like :) .

Two things though - they take a lot of power (200 watts is the lower-end of what you want), and they are fragile. One moment you're listening to beautiful music thinking "I'll just crank it up a bit more" and the next, pop...silence. I think he replaced the drivers in each one at least one before he realized they weren't for him.

Like other esoteric designs (planars come to mind), they're great for recreating the sound of live music at moderate levels. If you want the true concert experience though (with volume to match), blowing them up will get old fast.


jblnut

SEAWOLF97
01-08-2007, 01:33 PM
Two things though - they take a lot of power (200 watts is the lower-end of what you want), and they are fragile. One moment you're listening to beautiful music thinking "I'll just crank it up a bit more" and the next, pop...silence. I think he replaced the drivers in each one at least one before he realized they weren't for him.

Like other esoteric designs (planars come to mind), they're great for recreating the sound of live music at moderate levels. If you want the true concert experience though (with volume to match), blowing them up will get old fast.


jblnut

thanx for nfo. I am trying to be carefull. They do have fuses on each speaker.

The 4412's are still hooked up, guess I'll switch to them when in "wild mode" :bouncy:

John
01-08-2007, 01:59 PM
Seawolf -

Why do you need all those speakers? Do you have one pair in each room of your house?

Why would you sell Altecs?

I was only asking a simple question, no need to get hostile.

BTW: In my opnion, the unfinished birch is WAY more attractive than any Walnut veneer. Just because it sold for cheaper, does not mean it is cheaper. I would easily say it is worth 10% more than regular 846B walnut.

-Storm.
Maybe you would but no one else:p

John
01-08-2007, 02:01 PM
Funny thing is that the prior owner was trying to run them with an Aiwa boombox. he wired L and R speaker wires togeather to 1 speaker. (but did use Monster cable)

Didn't sound too good :blink:

FWIW: I actually turned down a discount. He offered to give me $10 off for gas due to the 20 mile drive. I figured $135 was good enough already. :applaud:

I would of done the same thing:applaud:
A good deal is a good deal,end of story;)

Storm
01-08-2007, 02:25 PM
Two things though - they take a lot of power (200 watts is the lower-end of what you want), and they are fragile. One moment you're listening to beautiful music thinking "I'll just crank it up a bit more" and the next, pop...silence. I think he replaced the drivers in each one at least one before he realized they weren't for him.

Like other esoteric designs (planars come to mind), they're great for recreating the sound of live music at moderate levels. If you want the true concert experience though (with volume to match), blowing them up will get old fast.


jblnut

This is why I love my Altecs. I can crank them up and rock the house without worrying at all.

I think later down the road, the birch will be desirable. It does not matter that it was the cheaper, it will be supply and demand. Not alot out there to choose from, mostly walnut versions.

;)

-Storm.

SEAWOLF97
01-08-2007, 04:39 PM
I think later down the road, the birch will be desirable. It does not matter that it was the cheaper-Storm.

birch reminds me of kitchen(ette) cabinets in a cheap motel or trailer park. One grade above raw plywood.

And your reasoning that later down the road, the birch will be desirable ??? Because Not alot out there to choose from ????

Not a lot of Chevy Vegas out there to chose from either. They worth zilch. (Sorry Mr. Zilch)

maybe read up on jackgiff 's beautiful rosewood 4412's , maybe those Altecs can be rescued. :bouncy:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=6964&highlight=rosewood

SEAWOLF97
01-08-2007, 05:08 PM
Amasingly, I've been trading emails with the president of OHM today (try that with the prez of HK :) )

here are his tips...

Hi Tom,

Yes, going to much thicker wire like 12 gauge MonsterCable is a good idea. You will find the cabinet pretty full of tuflex. Keep it that way. Taking it all out and adding many extra braces between the other five sides of the cabinet can improve the sound. So can adding two more long bolts in the other two corners.

It is old Ohm customers that keep us in business.

Feel free to call me personally to discuss your needs and options.

Good Listening!

John Strohbeen
President
800-783-1553

jim campbell
01-08-2007, 05:17 PM
is anyone else using that design with any success?

Storm
01-08-2007, 05:33 PM
birch reminds me of kitchen(ette) cabinets in a cheap motel or trailer park. One grade above raw plywood.

And your reasoning that later down the road, the birch will be desirable ??? Because Not alot out there to choose from ????

Not a lot of Chevy Vegas out there to chose from either. They worth zilch. (Sorry Mr. Zilch)

maybe read up on jackgiff 's beautiful rosewood 4412's , maybe those Altecs can be rescued. :bouncy:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=6964&highlight=rosewood

Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Why would I ruin the originality of them anyways by adding rosewood veneer?

To me, Birch is more of a modern wood - check out the trendy furniture stores - teak and birch are all the rage.

-Storm.

SEAWOLF97
01-08-2007, 05:53 PM
To me, Birch is more of a modern wood - check out the trendy furniture stores - teak and birch are all the rage.
-Storm.

Yup, I agree. The cheap furnature from China is birch ...very trendy

Of all the domestic hardwoods, Birch would probably be the lowest in price. This is its most redeeming feature.

Birch's ease of use and reasonable price, have made it a great craftwood, for almost any woodworking project. It's used extensively for firewood and makes wonderful ornamental trees. It has been turned to make all the toy parts you need, tongue depressors, tooth picks, pulped for paper.
Yellow Birch: The Official Tree of Quebec, CAN
White Birch: The Official Tree of Saskatchewan,CAN
The Tree: Betula family
Birch trees grow abundantly in North America, with nine species in this family that are relatively well known, but over 50 species found around the world, including many ornamental and shrub bushes. Yellow(silver or swamp birch) and paper (sometimes referred as white or canoe) birch are the two most common trees in Northern Ontario, although sweet, river and gray birch have some commercial recognition in other parts of Canada and the United States.
"White" birch, as we know it, is not really a species but rather a combination of either paper and/or gray birch. Red Birch is not a species at all, but rather refers to the heart stock of the yellow birch. Almost all members of this family have a smooth resinous white bark, that peels, rolls or curls, in some fashion. Some types of birch bark peels up the tree, rather than the traditional "around the tree". The bark gets very thick and deeply ridged as the tree gets older. Birches are usually the first to establish in cleared land, but start to die once other trees move in and offer shade. The trees will average a height of 70' and a diameter of 2'.
Wood Description:
The appearance of the wood will vary between species, but generally, the sap wood is creamy white and the heart stock, golden brown. Paper birch is predominately sap wood, with small brown knotty hearts. The wood is mostly white but as it nears the core will show brown flame patterns, with white sap edges.. quite dramatic. Yellow birch on the other hand, tends to be a larger tree and exhibits a more consistent golden brown colour, with little creamy white sap wood. Often yellow birch shows a nice curl pattern. In commercial operations, unlike maple,it is rarely sorted for colour.
Birch dries with a fair amount of shrinkage. It loses almost 16% of its volume going from green to dry lumber and does like to warp and twist if enough weight is not applied to the green lumber as it air dries. It is not resistant to decay, fungal and insect attack. Spalting is very common. Of all the quality domestic hardwoods, Birch would probably be the lowest in price. This is its most redeeming feature.

Spalting is a by-product of the rotting process that is carried out by a vast array of stain, mold and decay fungi, that are found naturally on the forest floor. When the temperature and humidity are right, spalting can cause many different and beautiful patterns in rotting wood. The unusual colouration may be due to chemically induced reactions between the wood, fungi and insect deposits, often resulting in black, pink, grey and multicoloured streaked wood

clmrt
01-08-2007, 06:28 PM
Well, at least now I know what a Walsh is, anyway.

:blink:

Back to your irregularly scheduled 846U thread.:bouncy:

SEAWOLF97
01-08-2007, 07:27 PM
Welll storm,

upon further reading, I guess Birch isn't the worst hard wood for speaker cabinets. Can you imagine BALSA ? maybe? ..Pound for pound it is stronger in some respects than pine, hickory, or even oak.
It is also used to make very light, stiff structures in model bridge tests (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balsa_wood_bridges), light wooden aeroplanes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroplane), table tennis blades, typically sandwiched between two pieces of thin plywood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plywood), and also is used in the Chevrolet Corvette (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette) bodies tub.


BALSA ALTECs ...now those would be rare and likely to appreciate. :applaud:

Storm
01-08-2007, 08:29 PM
I didn't know there was comedians on this forum.

Can we stop the bashing or is that what the Navy taught you, Seawolf? What a good use of America's tax dollars, I'd say!

Come on and stop the childish behavior and FINALLY become a man!

:blah:

-Storm.

Ian Mackenzie
01-08-2007, 08:44 PM
Interesting thread and a nice loudspeaker speaker.

I recall hearing the Walsh driver at Allen's Music in the 70's. They were great.

Has there ever been an attempt at a diy Walsh driver?

John
01-08-2007, 10:46 PM
Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Why would I ruin the originality of them anyways by adding rosewood veneer?

To me, Birch is more of a modern wood - check out the trendy furniture stores - teak and birch are all the rage.

-Storm.

Birch being all the rage is a new trend I must of missed!!!:p

Teak has been over long time ago. Back in the 80,s there were a lot of wall units around but that trend died before you were born Storm;)

Storm
01-08-2007, 11:01 PM
Birch being all the rage is a new trend I must of missed!!!:p

Teak has been over long time ago. Back in the 80,s there were a lot of wall units around but that trend died before you were born Storm;)

__________________________________________________ ________

Tell that to all of my customers on eBay for the past 5 years. I have consistently sold Danish Modern, Teak furniture to people all over the world, but especially here in the USA.

Danish Modern and teak is all the rage, along with contemporary - clean lines and light colors.

Please, if you get a chance - wander through a store like Copenhagen or Denmarket, then you will understand what I mean.

I know what you mean - I live in a 1960's house with walnut veneer walls. I hate them, but it sure would cost alot to re-do.

:biting:

Seriously, though...I think my generation is done with dark colors and especially the walnut - yuck!

Just like a@#holes, everyones got an opinion - and I am very glad everyone gets a chance to voice them.

-Storm.

SEAWOLF97
01-08-2007, 11:02 PM
Hmmmm..I'm starting to see a trend here, and poor storm is not in the majority.

I am deducting ( at the risk of storm attacking my manhood, again) that his mighty unfinished pine,,,err,,, birch Altecs were his very first speakers OR that he spent his life savings on them.....nothing like that first love , even if she was a bitch,,,errr,,,,birch.

Defend your purchase at all costs !!!!!! Babble on forever. :blah: We can't get enough of the 846 ewe's

Storm
01-08-2007, 11:09 PM
Wow, Seawolf - I am so flattered at those comments.

Get off your high horse.

I am not defending my purchase, but embracing. Isn't that what you are doing on the OHM F thread? Come on, get a life other than making fun of others.

Yes, these were my first speakers and they will be my last. Not due to budget restraints, but I truly have found the speaker for me.

If you can't realize the simple fact that light colors and birch are in style, then you must be older than I thought.

Have an open mind - embrace things that you cannot understand.

And no, I am not blabbering. I am trying to give VOICE to these speakers and give them the justice and respect they deserve - trying to show people that JBLs are not the only answer.

:p

Please, I don't mean to offend - only trying to reveal what I am trying to say.

Let's all be civil.

Thanks.

-Storm.

John
01-08-2007, 11:15 PM
Hmmmm..I'm starting to see a trend here, and poor storm is not in the majority.

I am deducting ( at the risk of storm attacking my manhood, again) that his mighty unfinished pine,,,err,,, birch Altecs were his very first speakers OR that he spent his life savings on them.....nothing like that first love , even if she was a bitch,,,errr,,,,birch.

:applaud: :applaud: :applaud: Talk about hitting the nail on the head!!!

Storm
01-08-2007, 11:17 PM
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

John
01-08-2007, 11:28 PM
Wow, Seawolf - I am so flattered at those comments.

Get off your high horse.

I am not defending my purchase, but embracing. Isn't that what you are doing on the OHM F thread? Come on, get a life other than making fun of others.

Yes, these were my first speakers and they will be my last. Not due to budget restraints, but I truly have found the speaker for me.

If you can't realize the simple fact that light colors and birch are in style, then you must be older than I thought.

Have an open mind - embrace things that you cannot understand.

And no, I am not blabbering. I am trying to give VOICE to these speakers and give them the justice and respect they deserve - trying to show people that JBLs are not the only answer.

-Storm.


Dude There just speakers!!! :o:

I thought Justice and Respect was reserved for Humans:blink:

I am not a big gambler but I will go out on a limb here and place a bet that you will own a few more pairs, of speakers in your life???

Also colors change every year.;)

And when that cheap wood panneling went out of style first thing most people did was roll some paint over it, give it a shot.:thmbsup:

I recommend JBL blue:applaud:

Storm
01-08-2007, 11:33 PM
No thanks, I intend on keeping mine stock and do not plan to change anything.

Nope, I won't own anymore speakers unless I use them and sell them.

Like I have said in another thread - I am glad to have found the speaker for me. It takes years for some people to get it right.

Seems as though, you dont have it right - yet, do you?

What about justice and respect for animals? I think all things in this life need a little justice and respect.

If no one will give it, who will?

Seems as though people on this thread need to learn it.

As you can tell, I am not mainstream. Why would I change something to fit mainstream?

I am glad to say I dont change with the times. Do you? If so, how is that working for you?

All I was referring to was that in todays modern society, the majority like contemporary modern, which is not walnut. Dark speakers yes, but not particularly walnut.

-Storm.

Ian Mackenzie
01-08-2007, 11:51 PM
Awesome story Seawolf.:applaud:

I've not seen a pair of Ohm speakers in 25 years. Nice find.:)

The Ohm www site is quite interesting too.

I wish Storm would change seasons as these posts have tarnished an otherwise interesting and informative thread.

Seeing as you are so well read and worldly I wonder if you can tell us all what an Ameri-Can is? For a clue to the correct answer I highly recommend you watch the movie "Kenny". He (Kenny) is the Real Deal a far as a role model for you is concerned.

http://www.kennythemovie.com/indexFlash.html

John
01-09-2007, 12:15 AM
Nope, I won't own anymore speakers unless I use them and sell them.



-Storm.

OK I give up!!!:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

jim campbell
01-09-2007, 12:20 AM
I am glad to say I dont change with the times. Do you?

-Storm.[/quote]

as time passes you will find fewer and fewer absolutes in life.sometimes older guys can sound a tad condecending but it is usually because they have run down the road a few times.try to accept opinions that differ from your own as simply differing from your own and not necessarily hostile.lifes too short .

SEAWOLF97
01-09-2007, 05:43 AM
I think my generation is done with dark colors and especially the walnut - yuck!-Storm.

WOW Storm , I'm so sorry....I didn't realize that you are THE spokesman for your generation.
Does the job pay well ??
do you run with Paris and Nichole and Brittany ?? (be careful , they are not good role models , they'll get you to take off your panties in public)

At 22 , I was on my 3rd tour of Vietnam , trying to pay back America for the freedoms that she had granted me.

I've noticed that you go around making outrageous comments. When someone calls you on it , then you attack. When they respond and things get hot, you wimp out and do this Rodney King-like "Can't we all just get along" thing.

You attack my manhood ....thats my wife's job.

You attack my Navy ...that's my job.


On second thought, maybe we are better off with you just playing with your Altec 846U (unfinished, Birch) speakers, rather than you trying to pay this country back for the freedoms it has granted you.

I have never heard you talk about the Altec 846U (unfinished, Birch) speakers tonality , about their range , about their imaging, about their sound field, only that "THEY PLAY REALLY LOUD".

Is that your main criteria ?

Are these wonderful Altec 846U (unfinished, Birch) speakers something exotic or unique ?
Are the Altec 846U (unfinished, Birch) speakers something without crossovers ? Are the Altec 846U (unfinished, Birch) speakers made of so much titanium that they could not be sold at a profit and be competitive ? what is so incredible about the Altec 846U (unfinished, Birch) speakers that makes you babble on so ??

Oh yes, THEY PLAY LOUD.

Well Storm. You are big on voting/surveys. Lets do a hypothetical one.

I'm pretty sure you paid a lot more for the Altec 846U (beautiful unfinished, Birch) speakers than I did for the OHM F (ugly black walnut) speakers.

If we gave the forum members a chance to buy either set at an arbitrary ..oh, say, $100.....which set do you think would win ???

I'll spot you 10 votes to start out. :applaud:

clmrt
01-09-2007, 06:07 AM
Storm sez-

"I am not defending my purchase, but embracing."

Get a room...a private room.

"Isn't that what you are doing on the OHM F thread?"

He started an Ohm thread, duh! Know what thread crapping is?

"Come on, get a life other than making fun of others."

Shame on you. You fart in someone's thread then make it everyone else's fault for having noses.

I don't normally pick on people but this is exceptional. I landed a nice set of JBL's once and suddenly felt endowed with knowledge and had oats to sow - until I realized a few posts into my endeavor that I am NOT an encyclopedia. I continue to read and learn because I have an interest in the efforts of Lansing and his heritage.

Please stop your evangelical rants.

Ian Mackenzie
01-09-2007, 07:08 AM
I think the problem has been well and truely flushed out.:rotfl:

Storm
01-09-2007, 07:32 AM
Why do you guys get all bent out of shape over nothing?

I don't bother you guys when you rave about a specific JBL.

I also forgot that if I am not in the army, navy, or drink - then I must be un-american.

Why do I need to talk about their imaging and put up graphs if you already know their capabilities. Do you need something like that in order to tell you they are good speakers?

Excuse me for having opinions - guess young people like me need to listen to old people regardless of what they say, just because they have years on them. Give me a break, did you listen to your elders at 22? I think NOT! They would have told you - Seawolf, to not enter the service.

Give me a break, please. And yes, can we all be civil - or is that asking to much of my elders?

I am not part of any religion, but I do know that people should treat people the way they want to be treated. It seems as though you can have your opinions, but I can't have mine. Sounds kind of like the mother and father hypocrate rule - do as I say, not as I say do.

Thanks.

-Storm.

Storm
01-09-2007, 07:37 AM
I get the point -

I will crawl back into my hole and shut up.

But I would like to say one thing - it seems as though everyone else can have their opinions on speakers and modifications, but since I am not a DIY and I rave about the Altecs whenever I can - that makes me a bad poster?

Whatever.

-Storm.

Storm
01-09-2007, 08:05 AM
Understood, but if you ever read my previous posts - I am not shoving it down anyones throat. I am simply stating my opinion. Guess I am not allowed to have them.

Guess I should make better use of my time and excuse me, while I enlist in the army. Or should I just shoot myself now?

Seawolf, I thank you for your service - but in my opinion, I don't owe anyone for anything that this country has given to me. I oppose wars, so why should I join one? So I can get into your little club?

Sorry, Seawolf - just read your about me page on eBay. You were a photographer, not actually in the war. Why aren't you honest? You make it sound like you went face to face with the enemy, in reality, you weren't. I don't know, but maybe you saw the enemy or were in some dangerous situations, but I was under the impression from your posts that you were a fighter.

Like I said before, I guess I am not welcome here since I am not a DIY'er. I thought I was welcome, but apparently not.

I know one things for certain - I am not going to tell my nephews and neices that just because I have been around longer and on the road longer, that means I know more. That is a load of crock and I think the elders of today love saying that so they don't have to explain anything else.

Excuse me for being young, but if I learned half the stuff you blabber to me - I would be in huge trobule.

-Storm.

SEAWOLF97
01-09-2007, 08:17 AM
Guess I should make better use of my time and excuse me, while I enlist in the army. Or should I just shoot myself now?

in my opinion, I don't owe anyone for anything that this country has given to me. I oppose wars, so why should I join one? So I can get into your little club?

-Storm.


Storm........ it's time for you to back away from the keyboard for a bit , you are getting incoherent.

Storm
01-09-2007, 08:18 AM
Look in the mirror.

I am doing just fine and mean everything I have said.

-Storm.

Titanium Dome
01-09-2007, 08:27 AM
C'mon guys, it's time for some moderation here. Just step away for a moment and gather yourselves. No need to go any further.

SEAWOLF97
01-09-2007, 09:03 AM
You should remove the equalizer from your system completely and allow them to impress you... it might take a day or two for you to "retrain" your ears. After you really get a handle on their sound, you may want to return to the equalizer, but I expect you will hear the sonic signature of the equalizer and you may prefer the unequalized sound... your Ohm speakers are quite revealing and may show you short comings in other parts of your system.

Widget

Was home alone last night. Put up my son's copy of BEATLES/LOVE. Completely blown away. Thought it couldn't get any better.....

and then I remembered Yoda....errr... Mr. Widget saying "Turn off the EQ , Luke". I was unable to resist his suggestion.

OMG...the bass line (shes so heavy , come together , I am the Walrus) got so much tighter, lost a tad on the highs (I need a slight HF boost=over 30, too many rock concerts, too much exposure to jet engines, etc.), and it all became even more natural. I listened to the whole CD again.

I guess they did show the weakness of the EQ. Think I'll leave it off.

Thanx Mr. W :applaud:

SEAWOLF97
01-09-2007, 12:38 PM
also , unexpectedly , they show the limited range of XM.
Guess I'll have to turn on the nasty old 4412s for that :bouncy:

louped garouv
01-11-2007, 01:29 PM
also , unexpectedly , they show the limited range of XM.
Guess I'll have to turn on the nasty old 4412s for that :bouncy:


maybe an dynamic range expander of some sorts?

glad you are digging the Ohms.....

saw a few pairs cross CL here in the last few years, but no "F" model....

SEAWOLF97
01-11-2007, 02:20 PM
maybe an dynamic range expander of some sorts?

glad you are digging the Ohms.....

saw a few pairs cross CL here in the last few years, but no "F" model....

thanx LG

There are lots of OHMs out there . The "F" was, I think, their "Everest" or "Paragon". At $4000 in 1977, they were out of reach for most. There is so much titanium used that even at that price they could not continue to produce and make a profit.
Like most manufactures, they started out ambitious and then had to scale their product back to actually compete in the market. They are a small NY company , still in business.

Have traded 10 or 12 emails with the company president in the last 3 days. He makes me feel like he cares about "his children". Nice to get on-line tech support from the top. He has installed al least 30 pairs in high-end locations.

very happy. :bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy:

SEAWOLF97
01-12-2007, 07:13 PM
Our old guitar player had a pair of these. I was very impressed with their overall sound and imaging. Sort of like what a 901 should have been like :) .

Two things though - they take a lot of power (200 watts is the lower-end of what you want), and they are fragile. One moment you're listening to beautiful music thinking "I'll just crank it up a bit more" and the next, pop...silence. I think he replaced the drivers in each one at least one before he realized they weren't for him.

Like other esoteric designs (planars come to mind), they're great for recreating the sound of live music at moderate levels. If you want the true concert experience though (with volume to match), blowing them up will get old fast.
jblnut

JBLNUT
I relayed your concern to the company president.

My pair are sequential serialnos. , produced before 1978. One of the drivers is pre 78 and one post 78, showing that, YES , someone had blown a driver.
They ship from the factory with a 4A fuse. The pres admitted that sometimes they blew too slow. He had me throttle waaaay back to 1A fuses. Have been running all afternoon at moderate volume levels on the 1A's with no problem . These guys are SO GOOD that I want them to last as long as I do. :applaud:

addendum: Put up the Beatles LOVE - the 1A didnt hold, neither did the 2A , 3A seems to be hanging in there. This is the step proc recommended by OHM prez.

jblnut
01-12-2007, 09:52 PM
Sounds like a great idea. Fuses are a whole lot cheaper than those drivers....


jblnut

Chas
01-14-2007, 07:55 AM
All I was referring to was that in todays modern society, the majority like contemporary modern, which is not walnut. Dark speakers yes, but not particularly walnut.

-Storm.

Time to ditch my 4345's, I guess....;)

soundboy
01-14-2007, 09:33 AM
Time to ditch my 4345's, I guess....;)

My mint 4301B's and 4406's gotta go too, huh?:banghead:
Thankfully the 2245H's are in light oak cabs:)....but the glass top inserts are dark!:banghead:
My new L96's will have to be re veneered in birch:blink:....don't want to give them up quite yet, so I can fit in:D

SEAWOLF97
01-14-2007, 09:50 AM
My mint 4301B's and 4406's gotta go too, huh?:banghead:
Thankfully the 2245H's are in light oak cabs:)....but the glass top inserts are dark!:banghead:
My new L96's will have to be re veneered in birch:blink:....don't want to give them up quite yet, so I can fit in:D

Hey ...I wanna be "IN" too. Gonna need so much birch (unfinished) veneer to redo all my speakers. Prolly need to take out a second mortgage to do it. BUT, it will be worth it to be IN with the IN CROWD.

Titanium Dome
01-14-2007, 10:50 AM
Time to ditch my 4345's, I guess....;)


My mint 4301B's and 4406's gotta go too, huh?:banghead:
Thankfully the 2245H's are in light oak cabs:)....but the glass top inserts are dark!:banghead:
My new L96's will have to be re veneered in birch:blink:....don't want to give them up quite yet, so I can fit in:D


Hey ...I wanna be "IN" too. Gonna need so much birch (unfinished) veneer to redo all my speakers. Prolly need to take out a second mortgage to do it. BUT, it will be worth it to be IN with the IN CROWD.

You guys are incorrigible. Listen, I got your birch right here...

(edit)ERROR ALERT: The following is wrong; completely, utterly, totally wrong. Enjoy it.

JBL recently made the TiK, Performance, and Northridge E Series all available in a birch finish. Currently the Studio L Series continues to offer birch as does the Everest II DD66000. (The TiK and Everest II use real birch; the others are fake.)

While I have chosen not to get birch, apparently there was/is a contemporary market for it in speaker enclosure finishes.

Zilch
01-14-2007, 12:05 PM
Gonna need so much birch (unfinished) veneer to redo all my speakers.Can walnut be bleached? :hmm:

SEAWOLF97
01-14-2007, 12:10 PM
You guys are incorrigible. Listen, I got your birch right here...

While I have chosen not to get birch, apparently there was/is a contemporary market for it in speaker enclosure finishes.

Hey TD
I am assuming you are correct as I've never seen you knowingly post BS , but I think all those speakers you mentioned are finished birch ? If we are calling unfinished=unsealed , then that invites all kinds of nasty problems. Unfinished looks like a tongue depressor and I hope that JBL does not make high end systems that look like tongue depressors.
I have a pair of L36's in light oak. The OAk really projects an image of strength and solidarity, although this whole thread is about personal choices in cosmetics that.....as in all dimpled tweeter ads ......"Does not affect sound quality" :)

johnaec
01-14-2007, 12:25 PM
JBL recently made the TiK, Performance, and Northridge E Series all available in a birch finish. Currently the Studio L Series continues to offer birch as does the Everest II DD66000. (The TiK and Everest II use real birch; the others are fake.)I know the TiK series states "beech" - 'haven't looked at the other ones... Maple would also look similar.

John

hjames
01-14-2007, 12:48 PM
I know the TiK series states "beech" - 'haven't looked at the other ones... Maple would also look similar.

John

I've got a bunch of contemporary furniture, some from IKEA, some from SCAN, and its either Beech or teak.

Mr. Widget
01-14-2007, 01:34 PM
JBL recently made the TiK, Performance, and Northridge E Series all available in a birch finish. Currently the Studio L Series continues to offer birch as does the Everest II DD66000. (The TiK and Everest II use real birch; the others are fake.)Dome, I think you confused birch and beech... beech has long been a favorite light wood in Europe. Birch is usually used in America for low cost kitchen cabinets, unfinished loudspeakers, and as a general paint grade plywood.

For the record, the DD66000 is available in Maple, not birch or beech.


Widget

Titanium Dome
01-14-2007, 01:53 PM
I've got to stop posting in the beer thread and here at the same time. You are all correct, of course, and I withdraw all my erroneous birch comments. Of course, I was really trying to get everyone off Storm's back and managed to expose my backside at the same time. :moon:

Look, the emperor has no clothes! (That's a literary quote, not an expression of my status. ;) )

All right, everyone, take a good whack: :bash:

I deserve it.:D

soundboy
01-14-2007, 02:18 PM
Back in the day, I had some custom 4530 horn cabs made out of 11 ply baltic birch....beautiful stuff....for pro sound use.....and, if you use enough walnut stain, it doesn't look too bad:bs:

SEAWOLF97
01-14-2007, 02:38 PM
So, what you see is the back side of a seriously deep, down-firing 12" driver cone?

And that's all there is to it?:blink:

I was wrong in my first reply to this. The cone does move. It is a 12 in , firing straight down into a 4.3 cf sealed cabinet filled with batting, covered with cloth to keep it from going all over when you remove the driver.
The speaker , of course , has no crossover. The top section that radiates HF is titanium (even more expensive in 1977) , then lower on the cone is stainless for MF and then lower is paper for LF. I was kinda freaked, looking at horizontal depressions all around the paper. OHM's president assured me that they come from the factory that way and these were position calculated for dampening.

Have been doing fuse testing last 2 days and now they seem very stable on 3A. (they shipped with 4A) :bouncy:

Robh3606
01-17-2007, 06:13 PM
Hello SEAWOLF97

Scanned this out of my 1975 Audio Hi Fi Handbook. Thought you might like it.

Rob:)

SEAWOLF97
01-17-2007, 07:32 PM
Rob

Thank you very much. It confirmed much of what I've been hearing this last week. Wish I could email the sound to you.
I d/l'ed the image , desaturated in PSCS2 and emailed to OHMs president. Who knows ? Maybe it'll end up on their web site ?

I know SOTA 1979 is different than SOTA 2007 , but darn , they are really beautiful , and NO , these aren't my first speakers. (more like #50)

again, thanx very much, :applaud: :applaud:
TOM

SEAWOLF97
01-18-2007, 04:36 PM
Can walnut be bleached? :hmm:

Kinda like a "Michael Jackson" signature edition ?

SEAWOLF97
01-19-2007, 09:30 PM
I had read in reviews that these OHM speakers MUST HAVE 100-200 wpc to even operate.
When I brought them home , the Marantz 2230 (30wpc, tho many say that is a very conservative 30) was up running the 4412s. Hooked up the OHMs and thought they sounded great. I dont run super loud , but all kept telling me "they must have big power". Soooo, I swapped in the big black ugly 110wpc Denon.

Everyday for a week running on the Denon I kept missing the Marantz sound. Soooo, tonight I cudn't stand it anymore and swapped the Marantz back in. They sound super, on less power.

As long as I dont drive them into clipping, what is the downside of this swap ??

loach71
01-20-2007, 11:43 AM
Seawolf -- look for a used BGW 750C in EbaY. Buy it if you can get it for under $200. Renew the power supply capacitors. (these caps usually go sour on the 30 year old power amps) Use it on the Ohm F speakers. You will be pleasantly surprised. :D

BMWCCA
01-20-2007, 12:24 PM
Seawolf -- look for a used BGW 750C in EbaY. Buy it if you can get it for under $200. Renew the power supply capacitors. (these caps usually go sour on the 30 year old power amps) Use it on the Ohm F speakers. You will be pleasantly surprised. :DThey all look BEAT!!! One sold for $150 + $30 shipping. One just as beat now at $130 + $60 shipping.

loach71
01-20-2007, 01:35 PM
They all look BEAT!!! One sold for $150 + $30 shipping. One just as beat now at $130 + $60 shipping.

BGW 750C amps are rock solid -- BGW still supplies replacement assemblies. I'd buy it. A little sanding and black spray paint will make it aesthetically pleasing. Again, replace the power supply caps. You won't be disappointed.

I have six of these beasts - and they work very well.
They do have a transistor sound that "tube-o-philes" don't particularly like -- but their slew rate is high enough that they can reproduce a 20 kHz square wave with good fidelity. They sound accurate -- but somewhat analytical. I like that type of sound... The 750C has a huge PSU and the output devices can tolerate a 2 ohm load.

SEAWOLF97
01-20-2007, 01:57 PM
[quote=loach71;144475]BGW 750C amps are rock solid -- BGW still supplies replacement assemblies. I'd buy it. quote]

Sheepishly SW answers:

I have a BGW 250d that I've never used. Powers up, looks good. Don't have a pre-amp, except for a little dynaco PAT4 (?). The BGW says 150wpc and there is a setting on rear for 4 ohm :bouncy: . maybe I'll get unlazy and cjeck the pup out. :)

loach71
01-20-2007, 06:05 PM
[quote=loach71;144475]BGW 750C amps are rock solid -- BGW still supplies replacement assemblies. I'd buy it. quote]

Sheepishly SW answers:

I have a BGW 250d that I've never used. Powers up, looks good. Don't have a pre-amp, except for a little dynaco PAT4 (?). The BGW says 150wpc and there is a setting on rear for 4 ohm :bouncy: . maybe I'll get unlazy and check the pup out. :)

The "F" will like the 750C -- I tried the smaller BGW amps on them and could hear the difference made by the 750C. If you listen at QUIET levels the 250D should work well. All the talk about the harshness of the 750C is just YAP YAP YAP. If the speaker is properly equalized (either by passive crossover, active crossover or an EQ) the 750C sounds very civilized. The amp doesn't use massive amounts of negative feedback like its 1970's cousins -- so it doesn't have T.I.M. issues. As I said before, tube lovers won't like it -- the 750C doesn't sound warm and rounded -- it is dry and analytical -- but on the other hand, it is NOT harsh. My "F' speakers run a 750C -- and I have all sorts of MOSFET hi-power amps to use -- but the 750C wins on this particular speaker.

Happy DEROS from work...

P.S. if you want to sell that 250D you know whom to call...;)

SEAWOLF97
01-20-2007, 06:17 PM
[quote=SEAWOLF97;144482]

The "F" will like the 750C -- I tried the smaller BGW amps on them and could hear the difference made by the 750C. If you listen at QUIET levels the 250D should work well.P.S. if you want to sell that 250D you know whom to call...;)

Hey Tim ....thanx for nfo. You have "F's". What is your impression ?? (unless you are deaf from all that loach time , (somehow my hearing survived the UH-1B whomp,whomp) ).

John Strobeen told me that the main problem with the F's came when used with PhaseLinear 7000's. Thats why I have been ramping down my fuse size to the smallest that won't readily blow.

loach71
01-20-2007, 06:33 PM
The "Fuse Linear" (pardon the pun:banana: ) amps just couldn't handle low impedance loads. The BGW amps like the 250D and 750C were quite stable down to 2 ohms. The "F" speakers have some really nasty impedance dips that FRY amps like the P.L.

I've had my "F" for over thirty years and they always wind up being driven with the BGW 750D. No pops, farts, fizzles, flames or smoke. It just works.

SEAWOLF97
01-21-2007, 07:35 AM
I've had my "F" for over thirty years and they always wind up being driven with the BGW 750D. No pops, farts, fizzles, flames or smoke. It just works.

Discovered a long lost Luxman R-3055 receiver yesterday that needs power switch, will fix that today and give it a try AND have a Hafler pre-amp on the way so as to try out the BGW.

LATER: got the LUX fixed. more wpc's, but the Marantz sounded better.

loach71
01-21-2007, 11:45 AM
Seawolf -- keep cruising EbaY for a deal on a BGW 750C. With that amp you will be able to enjoy all the dynamic range offered by the "F" speakers.
I'm looking for 2 more pairs to build an upstairs home theater..

SEAWOLF97
01-21-2007, 08:00 PM
I was looking at Lincoln Walsh's patent
http://patimg2.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=03424873&homeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fn ph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526d%3DP ALL%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25 252Fsrchnum.htm%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%252 6s1%3D3424873.PN.%2526OS%3DPN%2F3424873%2526RS%3DP N%2F3424873&PageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page

and the Walsh driver is truly a departure from everything else. Also was checking out the only other company to use the Walsh driver....German Physiks.
Super expensive speakers. Anyway, their veneer page is beautiful
http://www.german-physiks.de/NewFiles/Veneer.html (sorry, no unfinished birch, but there is Italian Birch) Wish JBL used some of these exotics :applaud:

loach71
01-21-2007, 09:23 PM
It is a pity Walsh passed away

SEAWOLF97
01-22-2007, 11:20 AM
Tim

here is an email exchange with John-OHM prez.

looks like backswing on the cone produces BASS ?


Hi Tom,

Removing stuffing tends to reduce the deep bass and make the mid-bass excessive.

When the cone goes down, air from the room moves inward, when the cone goes up, the air from the room moves away--bass!

A less understood system is how a 12 cone moving up & down creates treble -- check our website.

Good Listening!

John

In a message dated 1/21/2007 10:25:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tom writes:

John

I have been enjoying the F's all weekend. My question is:

Dont understand how a 12 in. driver firing straight down into a sealed 4.3 cf box full of battling transmits bass.

which leads to the question: how does removing batting affect bass ?

thanx
TOM

SEAWOLF97
01-23-2007, 08:15 PM
Discovered a long lost Luxman R-3055 receiver yesterday that needs power switch, will fix that today and give it a try AND have a Hafler pre-amp on the way so as to try out the BGW.

LATER: got the LUX fixed. more wpc's, but the Marantz sounded better.

found a Technics SA-GX770 in storage , was never tested , 125wpc , hooked it to the F's. Yup they like the extra power.

Cant wait for the Hafler pre-amp so I can try out the BGW 250D :D

perrydu
01-25-2007, 09:48 AM
$135???????? You make me sick!!!! I bought a pair of F's in 1976 and a long series of events, including blown drivers, theft, handmade cabinets, ebay purchases and repairs leave me with a pair that still sound great. There is a rough looking pair on ebay right now starting at $750, but no bids. Another pair being offered mentions with surprising honesty the smoke that came from the voice coil at one point. The tempting offer on ebay right now is a pair of OHM A's. These are extremely rare and supposedly even better than the F's. They do not work and I would be afraid to risk $1000 on the chance that I could get them fixed. I had my F's refoamed at Audio Atlanta and have been quite pleased with the work. OHM claims they cannot be repaired properly but mine seem pretty close to the original sound. I drive mine with a Carver M400, I really don't know the damping factor for it. The F's supposedly need a factor of 8 or above.

SEAWOLF97
01-25-2007, 10:08 AM
The tempting offer on ebay right now is a pair of OHM A's. These are extremely rare and supposedly even better than the F's.

Those A's are 18 inch !!! Must be huge cabinet.
Still searching for the right power source for mine. Have hooked up 4 different receivers with varying degrees of success.

perrydu
01-25-2007, 12:01 PM
I started with a Technics receiver that had 100 watts per channel but later switched to the Marantz 2325. It sounded great but the whole system was carried away by a burgler. I got the Carver M400 which supposedly puts out about 200w/ch and have been happy ever since. I blew two drivers with the Marantz but the Carver has some sort of speaker protection built in. I trigger it regularly when I try to play something with a lot of bass. I have been driving F's for 20 years with the Carver without any further driver damage. I am afraid to switch amps and risk blowing out the speakers. Certain recordings really stand out on these speakers. There is a song on the Heart "Little Queen" CD that starts with the sound of people tossing coins as to a street band. With the F's properly positioned you can point to the exact spot where the coin lands. My favorite is "World Machine" by Level 42. It really showcases the range of these speakers.

SEAWOLF97
01-25-2007, 04:12 PM
$135???????? You make me sick!!!!

heres a cheap pair on da bay

Starting bid:US $2,450.00

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=016&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=260077433313&rd=1&rd=1



is that SICK , ,,,, new or old version ??

OLD VERSION OF SICK

Pronunciation: 'sik
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English sek, sik, from Old English sEoc; akin to Old High German sioh sick
------------------------- --------------
1. Not feeling good.

2 a (1) : affected with disease or ill health : AILING (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=AILING) (2) : of, relating to, or intended for use in sickness <sick pay> <a sick ward>

NEW VERSION

Now used as the newest word to replace cool (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cool). Something that you've never seen before.
Old version:

Mary,"I feel sick to my stomach".

Jess,"Ask the teacher for a Nurses' Pass".

New Version
Keegan:This Calculator is sick!

Kass:That outfit is sick!

SEAWOLF97
01-25-2007, 04:39 PM
The tempting offer on ebay right now is a pair of OHM A's. These are extremely rare and supposedly even better than the F's. They do not work and I would be afraid to risk $1000 on the chance that I could get them fixed.

SOMEBODY PULLed the trigger on them at $1000 BIN.

SEAWOLF97
01-25-2007, 08:07 PM
picked up a pair of OHM model D's today. 2 way 10in. , sound pretty nice.

Also after Loach71/Tim's advise, I hauled out the BGW 250d and today traded other surplus for a Hafler DH-101 pre-amp and even ordered a pair of rca2monoQuarterInPlug adapters, so, with any luck I will be able to hook the BWG to the OHM's,
(will test out on POS speakers first) , sometime next week. :applaud:

SEAWOLF97
01-27-2007, 04:49 PM
got a pair of mono 1/4 phono plugs today and butchered up some patch cords and spliced up what I needed to connect the Hafler pre to the BGW 250d. Connected a pair of Optiwus speakers and a portable CD player.

WOW ...I can hear the potential.
Will thoroughly check it out before hooking to OHMs.

Thanx much Loach71 for your guidance :bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy:

Mr. Widget
01-27-2007, 05:07 PM
WOW ...I can hear the potential.
Will thoroughly check it out before hooking to OHMs.
A nice '70s or '80s era receiver is fine for background music, dorms, and parties, but if you ever sit down and really listen to this stuff, proper electronics makes quite a difference. With a fine pair of speakers like the Ohms, what is upstream is even more important. The Hafler preamp is certainly better than the front end of most receivers, but I know you can find even more transparent and quiet preamps out there... some of the BGW amps were pretty good. I don't recall ever listening to the 250 D, but listening through a great amp will surprise you.

Here was a fellow forum member's revelation a while back: http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8131


Widget

SEAWOLF97
01-27-2007, 05:39 PM
.. some of the BGW amps were pretty good. I don't recall ever listening to the 250 D, but listening through a great amp will surprise you.Widget

Thanx for the good NFO , Mr. W. The hafler will have to do for now. I get the third degree everytime a new piece of hardware enters the house (about 4x/week).
I've got tons of midfi receivers and hardly ever listen to FM, now that XM and CD are always on, I prolly will not add a tuner.
The BGW seems very clean and I shud be getting 126 wpc @ 4 ohms. plus it has a large damping factor of greater than 230 to 1, and I keep reading that the OHM F needs at least 10 to 1.:)

From the lit, it looks like lots of speaker protection circuits. Cant afford to blow the F's, at this point I do not think anyone cud repair them, and I'd like them to last as long as I do. :)

again , thanx for your continued help

loach71
01-27-2007, 08:01 PM
got a pair of mono 1/4 phono plugs today and butchered up some patch cords and spliced up what I needed to connect the Hafler pre to the BGW 250d. Connected a pair of Optiwus speakers and a portable CD player.

WOW ...I can hear the potential.
Will thoroughly check it out before hooking to OHMs.

Thanx much Loach71 for your guidance :bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy:

My pleasure to help another rotor-head...

SEAWOLF97
01-29-2007, 10:02 AM
Welll, I was checking the BGW/Hafler combo while the OHMs were running off a Technics AV receiver when the sound stopped. Checked it all out, the receiver was on , signal coming in , no o/p to speakers. It must of known a replacement was immanent.

Got up at 8 Sunday AM and swapped in the BGW/Haf. Still dialing it in , but noticed a big improvement in bottom end output.
Ran them all day yesterday and about 50 percent gain on the amp. Case did not even get warm. It must be loafing.
Hearing more detail. This is my first venture past mid-fi , hope I don't fall down the slippery slope to insanely overpriced exotics.

Quite happy with my "budget system" :applaud: (living room)


( OHM F's , BGW 250d , Hafler dh-101 , Carver TL 3100 CD , NuReality SRS , ADC 310 EQ , Sony MiniDisk , XM , Teac V-909RX cassette , JBL 4412's)

loach71
01-29-2007, 07:15 PM
Welll, I was checking the BGW/Hafler combo while the OHMs were running off a Technics AV receiver when the sound stopped. Checked it all out, the receiver was on , signal coming in , no o/p to speakers. It must of known a replacement was immanent.

Got up at 8 Sunday AM and swapped in the BGW/Haf. Still dialing it in , but noticed a big improvement in bottom end output.
Ran them all day yesterday and about 50 percent gain on the amp. Case did not even get warm. It must be loafing.
Hearing more detail. This is my first venture past mid-fi , hope I don't fall down the slippery slope to insanely overpriced exotics.

Quite happy with my "budget system" :applaud: (living room)



( OHM F's , BGW 250d , Hafler dh-101 , Carver TL 3100 CD , NuReality SRS , ADC 310 EQ , Sony MiniDisk , XM , Teac V-909RX cassette , JBL 4412's)



You've already progressed way past mid-fi -- considering the original prices on the Ohm F speakers and the BGW 250D. Snoop around EbaY for a BGW 202 or 203 control center -- it will surprise you. Try to obtain another BGW 250D so you can run bridged..

SEAWOLF97
01-29-2007, 07:31 PM
Snoop around EbaY for a BGW 202 or 203 control center -- it will surprise you.

I will .

.................................................. ...................

Montana , huh ?? My grandparents lived in Lewiston most all their lives. THE most exciting thing that ever happened to them was the day the surveyors knocked on the front door . They were researching the exact center of Montana.
Turns out that the drain in the kitchen sink of grandma's home was dead center.

loach71
01-29-2007, 07:41 PM
SW - I think a light has come on for you.:idea:
A well designed and constructed, full complementary push-pull power amp with a robust power supply will sound quite good -- irrespective of the fact that many "golden ear" audiophiles give it the "poo-poo"...

When you look at the slew rate of the BGW 250D and do the math you'll see that it has no trouble with the audio passband and beyond. If you want to push its passband past audibility you'll need to fiddle with the output inductor. I don't recommend this procedure... the 250D sounds quite nice as delivered by BGW.

You should get a service tech to remedy any DC offset on the output stage -- after all the amp is +20 years old. Other than that, keep the convection cooling slots clean and unobstructed and ENJOY.

jim3860
02-09-2007, 09:45 AM
hey seawolf want another pair? http://cgi.ebay.com/OHM-F-SPEAKERS-1977-VINTAGE-1-OWNER-MINT-CONDITION_W0QQitemZ260083673923QQihZ016QQcategoryZ 50597QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem REGARDS Jim

SEAWOLF97
02-09-2007, 10:04 AM
hey seawolf want another pair? http://cgi.ebay.com/OHM-F-SPEAKERS-1977-VINTAGE-1-OWNER-MINT-CONDITION_W0QQitemZ260083673923QQihZ016QQcategoryZ 50597QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem REGARDS Jim

Whilst I dearly love mine.....1 set is prolly enough. (Not wanting to sound like whiz-his-name with the unfinished speakers) , but if you have never heard these ...welll...they are unlike most anything else. I'm sure there is better available, but many who hear them are stunned.

THis pair is fair priced if in the ad condition, tho we know that they will need refoaming, which is difficult.

Seller sure is not ebay pro, incurs extra fees by starting at $1450 with BIN $1500. Just do a fixed auction at $1500....oh well, took me a while to learn that too.

Methinks that you could do very well within the JBL brand for that much money. For me , I was just fulfilling an old dream from 1977, but will keep them for life.

Thanx Jim for the lead, I always enjoy reading 'bout them big OHM's...:bouncy:

ps..did you see this Sansui pre=amp he sold for 1k ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260051851214

jim3860
02-09-2007, 02:00 PM
Whilst I dearly love mine.....1 set is prolly enough. (Not wanting to sound like whiz-his-name with the unfinished speakers) , but if you have never heard these ...welll...they are unlike most anything else. I'm sure there is better available, but many who hear them are stunned.

THis pair is fair priced if in the ad condition, tho we know that they will need refoaming, which is difficult.

Seller sure is not ebay pro, incurs extra fees by starting at $1450 with BIN $1500. Just do a fixed auction at $1500....oh well, took me a while to learn that too.

Methinks that you could do very well within the JBL brand for that much money. For me , I was just fulfilling an old dream from 1977, but will keep them for life.

Thanx Jim for the lead, I always enjoy reading 'bout them big OHM's...:bouncy:

ps..did you see this Sansui pre=amp he sold for 1k ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260051851214 your welcome. wow thats a good amount for that pre, but it seems all your classic gear is setting new records every day now. REGARDS JIM

jim campbell
02-10-2007, 07:22 AM
Whilst I dearly love mine.....1 set is prolly enough. (Not wanting to sound like whiz-his-name with the unfinished speakers) , but if you have never heard these ...welll...they are unlike most anything else. I'm sure there is better available, but many who hear them are stunned.

my truck only needs 4 tires to roll but having that extra one is always nice

SEAWOLF97
02-10-2007, 08:57 AM
my truck only needs 4 tires to roll but having that extra one is always nice

Oh I hear you Jim...

but, I have the OHM 2XO's , 4412s ,4410s , etc...in reserve. If I spent any more $ on speakers, am sure the OL wud finally snap..:(

jim3860
02-10-2007, 07:08 PM
If I spent any more $ on speakers, am sure the OL wud finally snap..:(
i hate it when that happens. :D

SEAWOLF97
02-12-2007, 11:41 AM
hey seawolf want another pair? http://cgi.ebay.com/OHM-F-SPEAKERS-1977-VINTAGE-1-OWNER-MINT-CONDITION_W0QQitemZ260083673923QQihZ016QQcategoryZ 50597QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem REGARDS Jim

Hey Jim

If you decide to go for them , check that...

they are a mirrored pair.

make sure the domes aren't pushed in (affects sound)

check for updated crossovers. :)

SEAWOLF97
02-14-2007, 07:26 PM
Hey LoachTim

I called OHM's president about replacement tents for my F's as they have some small holes that stand out black against the brown cloth. They are $150 + shipping. Not for this cheep Guy.

Thot of recovering them. That un square cube tent cover did not look like fun. Soooo....today I went down and bought a package of RIT black clothes dye. Mixed up the brew and grabbed the OL's kitchen gloves and did the deed. WOW, did they come out nice. For $2 I went from 1970s brown to 2007 black.
OHM stopped the brown 20 years ago as it doesn't age well and is a little different in every batch.

Can't see the black holes anymore ....:bouncy: :bouncy:

Titanium Dome
02-14-2007, 09:32 PM
Before/after pictures?

SEAWOLF97
02-16-2007, 09:13 AM
b4 is early in the thread...here is after , they are much darker in person, this photo still shows the mahogany paneling thru them.

SEAWOLF97
03-12-2007, 12:18 PM
Had a guy come over to buy some a/d/s HFs. He was going on about his JBL 4313's.
After a bit, he looked over and said ..."what are those, they look really cool ??"

So I reluctantly demo'd the F's for him.

today I got this email back


Yeah it works great. Itís not the exact same but sounds exactly the same. I donít think Iím going to get that much for them unless I re-finish.

I hooked them up and listened to them yesterday. Your Ohmís spoiled them for me, I was so un-impressed. Iím now afraid to fire up my JBLís.

Thanks,
Mike

clmrt
03-12-2007, 12:47 PM
Reluctantly?

My ass!:D

SEAWOLF97
03-29-2007, 09:31 PM
Had a friendly gear competitor/trading bud over today for more deals (TT's for marantzs)...anyway he talked me into demoing the F's. He's the guy I got the Yammy C-4 from. This guy has more gear than any 20 normal people. His garage, basement and house are stacked with equipment. Not a newby.

His reactions were "I've never heard a more natural and solid speaker. The image is unlike anything I've ever heard" , it holds up anywhere in the room, addictive."Sounds like the instrument, not a speaker"

Its nice to hear another experienced listener confirm my conclusions. He has the biggest grin I've ever seen on him. :D

coherent_guy
03-29-2007, 10:01 PM
Reluctantly?

My ass!:D

Mine too!! :D :D

Well, now that you've got the worlds best speaker, you need to start the search for the best of the rest, since you aren't sure if the amp, etc, you have now are the best. You've got a lot of work ahead of you... ;)

SEAWOLF97
03-29-2007, 10:09 PM
Mine too!! :D :D

Well, now that you've got the worlds best speaker,

Naw, I'd never claim that....they are just so different, and addictive. Think I'm finally in an upgrade holding pattern. There just arent any more upgrades I can lust after,,,,,,,except I would like to hear both L250ti's and L300's.

SEAWOLF97
04-04-2007, 11:27 AM
Had a guy come over to buy a Marantz last night. He of course asked about the big OHM's. Yeah, I'm almost in the speaker demo biz. The first 2 tracks of "Beatles-LOVE" does it every time. Anyway , this is the email I got this morning.


Hi Tom:

I just wanted to say Thank You for showing me your fine collection of vintage audio...especially the Ohm Speakers... what an an audio delight. It was almost as if the Beatles were in the room!!

Best Regards,
Erik


He closed his eyes, with a huge smile and just listened, then walked around the room trying to lose the image, couldn't do it.

SEAWOLF97
04-17-2007, 06:00 PM
Added one of these things to the system today, not dramatic but extends the low end even more. I dont think there are any more worthwhile upgrades to do .

http://cgi.ebay.com/CERWIN-VEGA-SW-12B-Subwoofer-LIKE-NEW-with-orignal-box_W0QQitemZ170100284963QQihZ007QQcategoryZ3275QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


I'm not super keen on CV, but it does the job. What do they mean by dual voice coil woofer ?

scott fitlin
04-17-2007, 06:05 PM
Dual voice coil woofers are exactly that, they have two voice coils instead of one.

Dual VC drivers are very popular with car audio. The VC,s can be wired in parallel, or series. JBL uses dual VC,s in some of their high tech drivers, this technolgy has been around for a while.

grumpy
04-17-2007, 07:01 PM
Heh... I remember those... seems like they were liquidating those in DAK
catalogs for years... if it does the job, I'm happy for you :) -grumpy

JBL 4645
04-17-2007, 08:09 PM
Why do you guys get all bent out of shape over nothing?

I don't bother you guys when you rave about a specific JBL.

I also forgot that if I am not in the army, navy, or drink - then I must be un-american.

Why do I need to talk about their imaging and put up graphs if you already know their capabilities. Do you need something like that in order to tell you they are good speakers?

Excuse me for having opinions - guess young people like me need to listen to old people regardless of what they say, just because they have years on them. Give me a break, did you listen to your elders at 22? I think NOT! They would have told you - Seawolf, to not enter the service.

Give me a break, please. And yes, can we all be civil - or is that asking to much of my elders?

I am not part of any religion, but I do know that people should treat people the way they want to be treated. It seems as though you can have your opinions, but I can't have mine. Sounds kind of like the mother and father hypocrate rule - do as I say, not as I say do.

Thanks.

-Storm.


No but being disrespectful to your elders here demonstrates your total ignorance even to towards me in the past and I but 18 years older than you and Seawolf a whole lot more man, than youíll ever be many times over so stick a sock in Storm.

SEAWOLF97
04-17-2007, 08:25 PM
No but being disrespectful to your elders here demonstrates your total ignorance even to towards me in the past and I but 18 years older than you and Seawolf a whole lot more man, than youíll ever be many times over so stick a sock in Storm.

I appreciate the sentiment , 4645 , but Storm has been on my "ignore list" for some time , as his comments are generally worthless, and he is invisible to me.

JBL 4645
04-17-2007, 08:41 PM
I appreciate the sentiment , 4645 , but Storm has been on my "ignore list" for some time , as his comments are generally worthless, and he is invisible to me.

The Invisible Man, hay.:D

http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/i/invman1.jpg

SEAWOLF97
04-20-2007, 09:44 PM
OKAY ...FIRESUIT ON , I'M READY....

reinstalled the 4412's into the main LR system today. They sounded great , as always. Dialed them in, working perfectly. They are the "B" speakers.

Did about a half hour doing A/B testing against the "F"s. (the A speakers)

.................................................. .................................................. .

RESULTS ?

the JBL's were quite nice , BUT , they sound like speakers reproducing music.

the F's were very nice AND they sound like the instrument that was playing.

anybody in the area have some 250ti's or L300's that I can demo ? The 4412's just aren't up to my satisfaction requirements anymore.

.................................................. .................................................. .

will use the JBLs when looking for a change in sound, but for A/B, there was no contest.

edgewound
04-20-2007, 10:30 PM
OKAY ...FIRESUIT ON , I'M READY....

reinstalled the 4412's into the main LR system today. They sounded great , as always. Dialed them in, working perfectly. They are the "B" speakers.

Did about a half hour doing A/B testing against the "F"s. (the A speakers)

.................................................. .................................................. .

RESULTS ?

the JBL's were quite nice , BUT , they sound like speakers reproducing music.

the F's were very nice AND they sound like the instrument that was playing.

anybody in the area have some 250ti's or L300's that I can demo ? The 4412's just aren't up to my satisfaction requirements anymore.

.................................................. .................................................. .

will use the JBLs when looking for a change in sound, but for A/B, there was no contest.

Blasphemy:die: :flamer: :thnkfast: :007:

Ohm F's...:barf: :blink: :bs:

JBL's....:band: :rockon1: :rockon2:...ROCK!!!

Storm
04-21-2007, 12:02 AM
the F's were very nice AND they sound like the instrument that was playing.



Try a pair of Altec Valencias --- they also, reproduce the instrument, not the music.

I often forget about the speakers and focus on the music when I am listening --- unlike alot of speakers I have auditioned.

;)

-Storm.

SEAWOLF97
04-30-2007, 05:05 PM
I got the Stereo Review review of the "F's" today, reinforces what I have been hearing...and a couple of new facts....

SEAWOLF97
05-17-2007, 05:56 PM
forum member SOUNDBOY stopped by today. Pete knows more about speakers and electronics right now than I ever will. He's been in JBLs for many years and runs Dynaudio mains with a JBL 18 in sub in his primary system, plus JBL's in his other 3 systems. He knows his stuff, besides playing in a band and really knowing what instruments sound like.

So we played his fav CD and he sure had a grin on his face. We eventually subtracted all processing and eq so he could just hear the F's.

without boring everyone, I'll try to remember his final quote...something very close to "If those F's were mine , they would be my mains, they make all my JBL's sound like sh1t and I would have to invest a lot more money into my already substancial system to even come close to that sound"

He did say that he had more bass, but it wasn't as natural.

Not trying to provoke anyone, and I do also enjoy my JBL's , just saying that there are other fine speakers available.

If I am misquoting you Pete, please publically correct me.

soundboy
05-17-2007, 06:53 PM
"If those F's were mine , they would be my mains, they make all my JBL's sound like sh1t and I would have to invest a lot more money into my already substandial system to even come close to that sound"


What I think I said was "If I had these Ohm's in my house, I would have to start tweaking all my other systems so they wouldn't sound like shit in comparison"

Yes, this is a JBL forum, yes I am an old JBL nut, and yes the Ohm F's made the mint 4412's sound like a cardboard cutout....and you can quote me on that too. The ohm's didn't sound at all like a speaker, period. Just a vocalist, piano, or a guitar. Wow.

The only downside is....maximum volume level....but...they were loud enough... and the bass was surprising.....not only did it sound completely effortless and natural, but it shook the floor when it was supposed to, just like my 2245's, just not as powerful....amazing stuff.... Ok, here comes the retaliatory attacks, huh?...."There must be something wrong with your JBL's, or your hearing" or "what box you got those 2245's in?" or "MY 4412's sound killer"....but you haven't heard the OHM's, or your ears would be amazed at what is missing....:bouncy: Time to go home an reavaluate the Dynaudio's, and all my JBL's:blink:

Zilch
05-18-2007, 03:29 PM
So, was SRS running?

SEAWOLF97
05-18-2007, 05:08 PM
So, was SRS running?

soundboy didnt like the SRS, so off with it and the EQ..ran flat. In fact I let him set everything
as he honestly has more experience than I.

I think it wud have sounded better than what he experienced if is was run as I do.......ie: he didn't get "the best they will do" IMHO

MORE...

got a long distance call from Pete this morning..He was still talking about them. While his Dynaudio w/JBL subs outperforms the OHMs in some facets, he noted they still wern't as natural sounding.

SEAWOLF97
08-19-2007, 10:18 AM
last pair went for $1650 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270149982664&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fse arch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm37%26satitle%3D 270149982664%26category0%3D%26fvi%3D1

newly found ad ....

oldsoundz
08-19-2007, 04:45 PM
Wish I could give them a listen!

SEAWOLF97
08-19-2007, 08:01 PM
Wish I could give them a listen!

Wish i could give you a demo ....If ever in Portland , look me up.......

I am not articulate enough to describe the differences, but have been listening seriously since 1966. Soundboy's impression (back a couple of posts in this thread) helps a little. SB (Pete) is a guitar player in a local band and their sound man too. Thats why I wanted his opinion . You know everyone thinks his own is best , but an outside evaluation that confirms is always welcome. I have never read a bad review on them ( please note there are many different flavors of Walsh speakers ) and a review on one model doesn't necessarily translate to the others.

Am not as brand loyal as many here ...I love my BMW, but may buy something else next time. I like my Nikons ..but show me something better and who knows ? I enjoy my JBL's , but .....

Point is...I go for best bang (product) for the buck...If that coincides with brands that I like then so much the better.

SEAWOLF97
09-01-2007, 09:12 AM
talk about SURROUND SOUND ..give them all signal and you may have 99.1

JBL 4645
09-01-2007, 11:17 PM
I would say 99.1 is correct for argument sakes I counted and even added a few that I couldnít seeing but judging from the size of the factory Iíd say 99.1 is spot on!:p

SEAWOLF97
09-02-2007, 01:26 PM
At least I gloat about JBL and Altec products.

;)

-Storm.

A literate person might read the forum description and conclude;

Lansing Related Gear (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=55)
Discussions on your system, amplification, source components, competing speakers etc.

JBLRaiser
09-02-2007, 02:26 PM
A literate person might read the forum description and conclude;

Lansing Related Gear (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=55)
Discussions on your system, amplification, source components, competing speakers etc.

has gone on for ten f-ing pages without your addictive postings. Otherwise, nice speakers:D

JBL 4645
09-02-2007, 02:29 PM
has gone on for ten f-ing pages without your addictive postings. Otherwise, nice speakers:D

Ten f**king pages LMAO LOL oh, oh dearÖLOL:rotfl:

hjames
09-02-2007, 03:13 PM
Exactly, my point.

Seawolf97 - I got banned for saying crap like that. Why aren't you?
You are basically calling me stupid. Shows how mature you are, that's for sure.

;)

-Storm.

He's been here talking to folks and you come into the thread and insult him, then you expect civility when you offered none.

See, he DIDN'T say you were stupid - THAT's the difference that you don't seem able to grasp ...
he also seems able to distinguish between his personal favorites and others -
rather than just swear allegiance to the death to a specific speaker.
He actually owns more than one set of speakers ... amazingly enough.

But -its a matter of subtlety ...

djjohnnys
09-19-2007, 08:11 AM
Hey,

Although this has nothing to do with what you guys are discussing, I need a little help in figuring out how much is the watts per channel for a BGW 750C? Just bought a pait of em off some dude, and he used to run two yorkville elite 1000's on them, so I'm guessing around 1000 watts per channel or more. But if anyone knows the actual watts per channel, can you please let me know?

Thanks

BMWCCA
09-19-2007, 09:04 AM
Hey,

Although this has nothing to do with what you guys are discussing, I need a little help in figuring out how much is the watts per channel for a BGW 750C? Just bought a pait of em off some dude, and he used to run two yorkville elite 1000's on them, so I'm guessing around 1000 watts per channel or more. But if anyone knows the actual watts per channel, can you please let me know? Thanks for the civil discussion/question as a change of pace on this thread. You can download the manual for your BGW here: http://www.hifiengine.com/manuals_type.php?man=BGW&mod=750C

According to the manual, the BGW 750B/C is rated 225 to 250 watts per channel into 8 ohms, both channels driven, at 0.1% THD. 720 to 800 watts at 0.2% THD in mono mode with 8-ohm load. I guess that's why it's called a 750.

djjohnnys
09-19-2007, 09:48 AM
Thanks for the info and link man. That really helped me.

SEAWOLF97
06-03-2009, 11:16 AM
Have been happy with the purchase of the 250ti's, BUT...they displaced the big Walsh's off to the HT , where they are only used occasionally....they just sit there whispering to me
"we are so good , why dont you play us ??"

The TT and MD are out on the LR system and all the HT has for input is the DVD & FM......so yesterday I bought another MD JB 930 minidisk deck (its not labled "ES" but is essentially an ES deck, even has keyboard input for naming and controling) ...its the identical model to the LR deck (and really bought as a backup) ...so I hooked it up to the big Denon in the HT ...WOW !!!! best of both worlds here, the Ohms are singing music again, not just movies.
The computer is in the HT room and now my tunes are transportable from the LR system..and can listen when online.

Why didnt I do this long ago ? late is better than never, I guess.

AND there is a great unintended benefit from the MD purchase on the Horizon(s) ---- (next week) :bouncy::bouncy:



According to the manual, the BGW 750B/C is rated 225 to 250 watts per channel into 8 ohms, both channels driven, at 0.1% THD. 720 to 800 watts at 0.2% THD in mono mode with 8-ohm load. I guess that's why it's called a 750.

you could be right, but my 750D is rated at 375 wpc (8ohm) and I've always figured that the sum of both channels into 8 ohm was the model number.

hjames
06-03-2009, 11:25 AM
See, Mr Seawolf - the answer to the problem is ... buy some more audio gear!:applaud:

SEAWOLF97
06-03-2009, 11:55 AM
See, Mr Seawolf - the answer to the problem is ... buy some more audio gear!:applaud:

Well , yes , but...

in this last 2 weeks I've bought the Pioneer L1000 , marantz 2385, marantz TT , marantz 920 speakers , Sony MD and a pending purchase next week.

running out of storage space.

mebbe I'll just put speakers 'round the dining table and use them for chairs ? :barf:

(gotta get out on the bike ...records are cheaper than gear, when you are in a buying mode)

SEAWOLF97
10-07-2009, 01:39 PM
so I love the big Walsh F's just as much as the 250ti's ...(for the same reasons, but different sound)

they have been doing HT duty and rarely used ....the back plate says 4/3 ohms ..
I think thats normally 4 and sometimes 3 ...makes more sense that 1 1/3 ohm ?

lately the Denon AVR has been going into PROTECTION (:eek::shock:) mode when I turn up the volume..figured thats its having trouble with the load ...so ...I reinstalled the
AR 428ps's in the HT (they arent very musical, but good for movies) ...pulled the 4410s out of the backside of the LR and moved the Walsh's out there ....the protection mode problem has ceased.

They are 18x18x44 and a tight fit but WOW !! I had forgotten how good they are -esp with my add in titanium tweets- most likely will share music time with the 250ti's 50/50 :bouncy:

Akira
10-08-2009, 10:26 PM
I once heard a pair of these speakers when I was IRONICALLY 22 years old.
The owner, a friend's father was a music teacher and a classical buff. We played 'Cars' Best friends girl friend, and I thought they sucked...then went on to brag about my L100's.
"Ah to be 22 and so enlightened."
Now to be 50++ and realize I missed a chance at an education--such is life.

Just curious, but with today's advanced speaker technology could the original performance not be much improved. After all the strength of the speaker is in it's design concept. The limitation of the speaker is the driver technology of 35 years ago.

SEAWOLF97
10-09-2009, 10:41 AM
I once heard a pair of these speakers when I was IRONICALLY 22 years old.
The owner, a friend's father was a music teacher and a classical buff. We played 'Cars' Best friends girl friend, and I thought they sucked...then went on to brag about my L100's.
"Ah to be 22 and so enlightened."
Now to be 50++ and realize I missed a chance at an education--such is life.

Just curious, but with today's advanced speaker technology could the original performance not be much improved. After all the strength of the speaker is in it's design concept. The limitation of the speaker is the driver technology of 35 years ago.

Akira ...as with any speaker they can suck depending on "............".( but really arent placement dependent) ..they DO need lots of power and are a difficult load to drive... Most 22 y.o.s like L100s.

If you read the whole thread, you'll see that reviewers & forum members that have heard mine do not share that view....only after picking up the 250ti's did I realize that the high freqs were down a bit ...thats why I added a crossover/filter and a titanium HF to supplement the Walsh driver ...they are truly different and very coherent ...member Magnepan is headed over this way soon and has a golden ear ...he's really enjoyed them in the past and we'll see if he likes my enhancement also.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=23671

(most JBL speakers are based on technology older than 35 years)

If ever in Portland...look me up...will be happy to demo.

jcrobso
10-09-2009, 02:13 PM
Is that so many of the really good things are the simple things that still work today. Many of them have just had a lot of improvements over the years.
The basic design of the loud speaker is very old, but look at the improvements.
I remember the late 1950s and all of the new exciting car engines that were going to replace the piston engine.:blink: The Wankel was only one that got into production and slowly has faded. Here we are in 2009 and the piston engine still rules, but look at the improvements!:)
JBL took the basic design of the speaker and refined it.:)

SEAWOLF97
10-09-2009, 04:18 PM
Is that so many of the really good things are the simple things that still work today. Many of them have just had a lot of improvements over the years.

First flown commercially in 1970, the Boeing 747 held the passenger capacity record for 37 years....they are still the workhorse, gradually being phased out now..

ever notice how many 43xx lovers are on the forum ? How old are they ?


The Walsh driver is still not widely understood ...Infinity had a version , German Physiks and Ohm are still producing it

cosmos
10-10-2009, 08:58 AM
so I love the big Walsh F's just as much as the 250ti's ...(for the same reasons, but different sound)...
I have owned Ohm Fs since new (I used to sell them while in college). I also have owned 250Ti-LE until recently and many other JBLs. I just have a thing for the JBL live sound.. I also sold JBL in HS and college during the 70s. Frankly, I just have a thing for speakers and own way too many including electostats (KLH Nines and Martin Logans), good horns and dynamic speakers. I say all of this to preface the statement: "Ohm Fs are my favorite low to medium volume speaker."

Simply, when they are working correctly, they are an incredible speaker. However, the years have not been kind to Ohm Fs. The weight of their heavy cone causes the spider to sag and of course the foam surround deteriorates as does the foam damping inside the cone. The sag causes the Voice Coil to drop taking it out of optimum alignment and reduces cone excursion. The impact on sound is huge. If one auditions Ohm Fs in this condition, they would think any positive statements ever made were complete heresy. Unfortunately, I believe all original Ohm Fs would now be in this condition unless they have been repaired.

There is a guy that claims to be able to re-cone or repair existing cones with new surrounds and foam in the Cleveland area, but he is also ridiculously expensive. I have attempted to help the spider by adding spring wire and have replaced the surround, but I cannot get my drivers back to their original luster.. They are a casualty of age. Perhaps one day, there will be an answer. Until then, they sit unused with the cones inverted to reverse the weight of the sag. :(


pulled the 4410s out of the backside of the LR and moved the Walsh's out there ....the protection mode problem has ceased.

They are 18x18x44 and a tight fit but WOW !! I had forgotten how good they are -esp with my add in titanium tweets- most likely will share music time with the 250ti's 50/50 :bouncy:

I can't follow the movements you made. Did you add titanium tweets to the Fs or are you talking about some other speakers? If you did this to Ohm Fs because of rolled off highs, I'd venture to say as much as I hate to, that your Ohm Fs, even though repaired, may be in the beginning stages of the sag. Highs are the first to go. You might consider adding some spring wire now in hopes of helping them now...

Further, always run Ohm Fs with a steep low cut filter. This speaker will pulse to signals less than 5 Hz. IMO, this excursion, while unneeded and not beneficial, causes to problems on the F: 1. added strain on the spiders and 2. IM distortion of the cone from these violent pulses.

SEAWOLF97
10-10-2009, 10:31 AM
Cosmos ....glad to add another name to the F appreciators list (me & tim are lonely)....I dont listen at really loud levels and the F's will go louder than I need..mine were supposedly rebuilt before I purchased , but I think that it only involved the surrounds...they look fine and the spider shows no visible sag..

the HF response is about what I wud expect from any speaker of that era ...they are rated at 35-17k , although I think they go lower than 35 .... my quick & dirty mod involved a small 2 way AR speaker....took the crossover and nipped off the LF leads , connected the titanium tweets and vampired the network in on the bananas where signal comes in on the back of the F driver...they now have a highend sparkle, with no permanent mod and easily reverseable.

Are my F's up to new factory specs ? I doubt it , but they are still most enjoyable and I love their imaging....did talk with that guy who rebuilds the drivers, he does a very thorough job , but at $1250 per driver...will just enjoy them "as-is"

cosmos
10-10-2009, 11:43 AM
Cosmos ....glad to add another name to the F appreciators list (me & tim are lonely)....I dont listen at really loud levels and the F's will go louder than I need..mine were supposedly rebuilt before I purchased , but I think that it only involved the surrounds...they look fine and the spider shows no visible sag..

Glad to be in the pack.. :D

I agree, they get loud enough for me in most instances.. I drove them with an SAE 2400 which is about 300 wpc into 4 ohms.

Check the spider with a straight edge.. and I'd still be tempted to put some form of helper spring in there..


the HF response is about what I wud expect from any speaker of that era ...they are rated at 35-17k

If you can hear 17K, you're probably doing better than me.. When they were working 100%, I don't recall anyone ever saying they were rolled off.. Further, be careful about generalizing speakers made in the 70s as rolled off.. There were some pretty stellar HF speakers in that group including ESS AMT line, which we often compared heads up with the Ohms...



Are my F's up to new factory specs ? I doubt it , but they are still most enjoyable and I love their imaging....did talk with that guy who rebuilds the drivers, he does a very thorough job , but at $1250 per driver...will just enjoy them "as-is"

It's been a while, but as I remember his prices, they were over $5K for a pair..?? I could be wrong... I'll need to revisit that too..

BTW, are there any horizontal crinkles in the titanium band (upper metal band on the cone) on yours? It should be smooth with the exception of vertical creases.

SEAWOLF97
10-10-2009, 04:51 PM
Check the spider with a straight edge.. and I'd still be tempted to put some form of helper spring in there..

If you can hear 17K, you're probably doing better than me
BTW, are there any horizontal crinkles in the titanium band (upper metal band on the cone) on yours? It should be smooth with the exception of vertical creases.

OK...can you provide details on the piano wire extra suspension ?

did a sweep test only a little while back..can get 13k and sometimes 14k

no horizontal creases in the titanium

Had some "me time" today ..home alone..put on my MD copy of the DVD "Eagles Farewell Tour Live from Melbourne" ....sounds better than many studio albums....all I can say is FugginAwesome !! :applaud:

which leads me to the last question....I bought a BGW 750D (375wpc 8 ohms/450wpc into 4 ohms ) for the Walsh's and they were fine....but then replaced them with the 250ti's...daisychained from the 750D is a BGW 250d
(100/8ohm..125/4ohm) and thats the one currently pushing the Walsh's..

Its an easy swapover to change out the speaker leads to the amps...wud the 250ti's be happy on the 250D's 100wpc ? I know the Ohm's are even awesomer on the 750D. :bouncy:

Here is part of the email from Dale Harder

"Yes, I do full rebuilds on the drivers including the 30+ upgrades. If the old cones can be salvaged the price is $1,250 per driver. If the cones have been damaged from others attempting to rebuild them or being overdriven, then the price id $1,750 each. I also rebuild and modify the cabinets."

cosmos
10-10-2009, 06:01 PM
OK...can you provide details on the piano wire extra suspension ?

There isn't any right or wrong here.. I just created a couple wires with some resultant up pressure about midway across the spider. It's not enough to keep the spider and cone from moving.

Oh, I almost forgot.. a big mod for these was replacing the internal wiring as it was said to reduce the high end due to its inductance.. I usually just jumped to the connections on the driver frame. Try that and see if your high end response improves.


no horizontal creases in the titanium
That's good! Over excursion of the cone causes the coil to bottom out (up in this case) and causes the creases I asked about.


Had some "me time" today ..home alone..put on my MD copy of the DVD "Eagles Farewell Tour Live from Melbourne" ....sounds better than many studio albums....all I can say is FugginAwesome !! :applaud:
LOL, they are nice...


which leads me to the last question....I bought a BGW 750D (375wpc 8 ohms/450wpc into 4 ohms ) for the Walsh's and they were fine....but then replaced them with the 250ti's...daisychained from the 750D is a BGW 250d
(100/8ohm..125/4ohm) and thats the one currently pushing the Walsh's..

Its an easy swapover to change out the speaker leads to the amps...wud the 250ti's be happy on the 250D's 100wpc ? I know the Ohm's are even awesomer on the 750D. :bouncy:

The short answer is that the 250Ti like power too.. and using a speaker on an amp with too much power is never a bad thing.. It's only bad when you drive a speaker too hard. I have stated for years and still maintain the belief that too big of an amp is far less dangerous than too small. I think there is even a JBL white paper about that very subject. Most speakers and amps generally show some signs of distress before they inflict damage.. In the case of the Ohm F bottoming out, its a very loud thump, but before that the sound starts to deteriorate.

SEAWOLF97
10-10-2009, 07:42 PM
Oh, I almost forgot.. a big mod for these was replacing the internal wiring as it was said to reduce the high end due to its inductance.. I usually just jumped to the connections on the driver frame. Try that and see if your high end response improves..

I had some email conversations with John Strobeen, Ohm's president, and he had recommended replacing the wiring.....so I opened the cabs and pulled all that old junk wire out....then made a 4x6 cutout in the riser skirt to insert a thinner panel on the backside to cover the cutout...drilled it out and installed gold 5 ways....then soldered in the best wire I had and allowed enough to reach the driver...then put on the best gold bananas that I cud find..

I did hear a pair NEW in 1977 and while its hard to A/B a 32 yo demo with todays sounds ....well...you know......

HERESY to follow ..avert eyes if you are a true, cant stand anything else, JBL fan....:o: ...
(highlite to read)..

had a guy come over to buy foams today and he asked abt all the speakers..I demo'ed the 250ti's and Walsh's on the same program material , same preamp settings..he preferred the Ohm's...said they sounded "fuller"..whatever that means ?

SEAWOLF97
12-09-2015, 02:38 PM
so, if anyone followed this thread, you will know my Walsh odyssey.

I started with the Ohm Walsh F's. Still have them. Then the Walsh 2xo (extended output , 8 inch driver) sold those.

Today I dragged home the F2's . Same cabinet as the F's, but different driver (12 inch) . 1970 vs. 1990. They are in superior condition. Traded with a guy who had bought them from the original owners widow. We demoed them, sound fantastic. Traded straight across for the 4311-b's.

The F's last price in 1984 was $4k+. In the 90's the upgraded driver came out. It could be retrofitted into the F's cab. You'd send in the old drivers + $1.6k and they'd send back new drivers and tents to put into your cab.

So I'm a happy camper :) , but now the Control Monitors are gone :(

http://ohmspeaker.com/legacy-products/f2/

pix from seller:

gferrell
12-09-2015, 04:55 PM
I always wanted to hear a pair of those. Almost bought a pair a few years back but something came up. Enjoy and let us know how they sound.

SEAWOLF97
12-10-2015, 04:58 PM
I always wanted to hear a pair of those. Almost bought a pair a few years back but something came up. Enjoy and let us know how they sound.

Good as the "F"'s have always sounded, these F2's are better. We look at them and ask "where is all that bass coming from" ??

I sat today at about 10 feet to the right of the right speaker and approx 20 feet from the left and 12 from the right , still got stereo image ..astounding. :)

Think I figured out the dynamic of the deal. The last price on the F's were $4k. The F2 was never sold as a completed speaker (the web site is wrong). F2 was a 1.6k upgrade to your existing F cab *. BUT their site lists the F2 for $1595 as a whole speaker . Took me a bit to figure out that new/improved speakers don't drop $2.4K. So on 20 y.o. 1.6k speakers, a CL price of 500 was appropriate.

I had my control monitors up for 495. Pretty equal trade, if calculating original incorrect web price of 1.6 instead of actual $5.6 outlay.

already in touch with OHM president. They will do needed maintenance on the driver pair for $250 , tho not really sure they need it. (plus 20% discount as new customer)

In the other guys corner , he got a nice pair of JBL's for what he paid the widow for the F2's . guessing, not too much.

OH yeah: The F2 is listed at 6 ohms, the F's at 4 & 3 . They are currently on the BGW 250D and seem happy there.


http://ohmspeaker.com/legacy-products/f2/


The Ohm F2 was the first Ohm F cabinet with a second generation driver. It increased the sweet-spot and maximum output, while also extending the treble. The driver was smaller and the system was vented through a vent on the driver board which extended the bass and reduced the distortion.

We continued to make new Ohm F drivers for service replacement for many years thereafter (we've never seen a ''repaired Ohm F'' that performed like a new one because none were good enough to put our name on them). The newly developed Walsh driver was adapted to the Ohm F cabinet and became the F-2 which was the first Ohm F upgrade.


* much the way JBL did the L250 with upgrade to 250Ti.

grumpy
12-10-2015, 10:56 PM
Well, if you get severe buyers remorse, let me know and we'll fix it ;)

SEAWOLF97
12-11-2015, 09:05 AM
Well, if you get severe buyers remorse, let me know and we'll fix it ;)

Most likely on the same day as the ARCAM. :)

SEAWOLF97
01-17-2016, 03:04 PM
Good as the "F"'s have always sounded, these F2's are better.


when I got the F2's home, immediately kicked the old F's to the curb (figuratively)
and hooked up to the BGW pre & power boxes. sounded great, BUT I had a channel imbalance,
having to adjust for about 25% on the Left and 75% on the right. knew something was wrong.
Same issue when switching over to the 250Ti's running off same electronics. Not the speakers problem.

Localized to the preamp. Subbed in the recently acquired Citation 21 , but the sound paled from what it could be. Pulled the 203 pre from the stack and took over to Doug (our star repair guy) ..he estimated 6 weeks turnaround , but called 2 days ago (was 3 weeks)

He found a bad tantalum cap. Mentioned that the 203 was exciting as he'd not seen one like that b4. "Those type of caps measured very low distortion."

Reinstalled it this AM , now I know what those F2's can really do. Superb. AND the 250Ti's improved that much also ,since on shared preamp ( it has 2 "mains" outs running to dedicated amps for each)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantalum_capacitor

loach71
01-17-2016, 08:30 PM
when I got the F2's home, immediately kicked the old F's to the curb (figuratively)
and hooked up to the BGW pre & power boxes. sounded great, BUT I had a channel imbalance,
having to adjust for about 25% on the Left and 75% on the right. knew something was wrong.
Same issue when switching over to the 250Ti's running off same electronics. Not the speakers problem.

Localized to the preamp. Subbed in the recently acquired Citation 21 , but the sound paled from what it could be. Pulled the 203 pre from the stack and took over to Doug (out star repair guy) ..he estimated 6 weeks turnaround , but called 2 days ago (was 3 weeks)

He found a bad tantalum cap. Mentioned that the 203 was exciting as he'd not seen one like that b4. "Those type of caps measured very low distortion."

Reinstalled it this AM , now I know what those F2's can really do. Superb. AND the 250Ti's improved that much also ,since on shared preamp ( it has 2 "mains" outs running to dedicated amps for each)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantalum_capacitor

I alwys replace the tantalum bead capacitors in BGW amps with low ESR electrolytics...