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elliot
01-05-2007, 09:29 AM
I am going to be experimenting with a few new 'blue' aquisitions of mine (4355,4331,4435). I have an old but reliable Klark Technik DN60 +rt60. Looking for something that will add greater depth and flexibility to analyze speaker and room acoustics. What is a good system to use? I have not followed the evotution of these for a while . I have limited knowladge of these pc based /interfaced systems. Your comments/guidance would be greatly appreciated.
Elliot

Mr. Widget
01-05-2007, 09:44 AM
I would have absolutely no reservations in recommending the CLIO system. Several forum members use it. It is very accurate and easy to use. The only measurement that it doesn't offer at present that would be useful is an RT60 measurement for room analysis, but it does a hell of a lot of other measurements.

http://www.cliowin.com/


Widget

elliot
01-05-2007, 10:28 AM
Thanks Widget. Looking into it.

boputnam
01-05-2007, 10:56 AM
There's a number of options, many discussed here over the years. Some expensive; others less so.

Search "RTA", etc. and you'll find stuff.

I use Smaart (http://www.siasoft.com/), but like CLIO, it is a money commitment (hardware, software) that many can't make full advantage of.

elliot
01-05-2007, 11:37 AM
Bo I guess you have a point there. These solutions don't come cheap. They look very involving.

boputnam
01-05-2007, 11:45 AM
They look very involving.Yes, and are incredibly rewarding.

I long thought I could tweak things pretty good by-ear. Once I started really measuring, I found I had some personal biases built on years of not having good measurements.

Good measurements have vastly improved my ability to optimally "tune" systems. For me, the spend has been self defending.

Subtle adjustments at hi Q at various points of the frequency response make for wonderous improvements in the system / room interaction(s).

Hoerninger
01-05-2007, 11:45 AM
These solutions don't come cheap.
It's for free, you need a mike:
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=117386&postcount=1
May be the handbook is still only in german.
____________
Peter

Andyoz
01-05-2007, 04:21 PM
If you are serious, I recommend investigating the software based analysis system at www.winmls.com (http://www.winmls.com)

It's not for the faint hearted, but this does everything you could possibly want. Basically all you need is a decent PC sound card, microphone and speaker to do some serious analysis. An example starter mic is as follows:http://www.behringer.com/ECM8000/index.cfm?lang=ENG
You can download a free 30-day trial.

This system is used by Genelec (sorry to mention the enemy :D) for their studio installs.

If you don't want to go that far, then a simpler system is available here:www.etfacoustic.com (http://www.etfacoustic.com/)

elliot
01-05-2007, 04:47 PM
Thanks ANDY. It's going to be a buzy year. I am getting some help as well.

Andyoz
01-05-2007, 05:22 PM
When I started in this game 15 years ago, the sort of analysis gear available now cost a fortune. It was all hardware based and very 'exclusive'.

To do decent measurements now, you just need the right software and a half decent sound card. The software corrects for sound card non-linear response quite well. An external USB laptop sound card like this is fine...http://www.roland.com/products/en/_support/dld.cfm?ln=en&dsp=0&iCncd=526

It's more the mic and speaker that can cost the money. Then again, you can still do good work with a low price mic and active 2-way monitor (i.e. genelec 1029A). I've got one of these babies though...http://www.bksv.com/1407.asp

Mr. Widget
01-06-2007, 01:44 AM
The only measurement that it doesn't offer at present that would be useful is an RT60 measurement for room analysis, but it...Apparently I was mistaken... it does now do RT60... I am still getting familiarized with CLIO version 7.

http://www.cliowin.com/7iso.htm

Widget

Andyoz
01-06-2007, 03:17 AM
I have never used the CLIO system. How much does it cost as I can't actually figure out from the website?

Also, it seems to rely on some proprietary external electronics in addition to the actual software.

The winMLS system on the other hand, only needs a decent soundcard (and mic/speaker of course). The only disadvantage is that some soundcards just don't want to work properly with it. But if you stick with the software developers recommended soundcards, things are OK.

There's seems to be some good healthy competition in this field, with each developer pushing the others to greater things.

Mr. Widget
01-06-2007, 07:20 PM
I have never used the CLIO system. How much does it cost as I can't actually figure out from the website?Here in the states is is around $1700... it comes with a mic, sound card, and an outboard interface... I think CLIO probably offers more bells and whistles than anyone else. If you look over all that it does, it is quite extensive. The latest version performs live transfer function like SmaartLive, it performs sinusoidal measurements for impedance, distortion, and frequency response like LEAP. it performs MLS functions including waterfall plots and others like MLSSA though only to 22KHz instead of 40KHz... on top of all of that, it can perform bandwidth and distortion measurements for electronics, wow and flutter measurements of turntables, perform as an LCR bridge and quite a host of other functions.


Widget

Robh3606
01-06-2007, 08:09 PM
One of CLIO's best aspects is how easy it is to use. It's great you just set-up and go.

Rob:)

Andyoz
01-07-2007, 10:46 AM
Clio does look easy to get going. WinMLS takes more time and if you have soundcard issues, it can be a bit of a pain.

Oldmics
01-07-2007, 12:49 PM
Widget

Does the CLIO allow you to preform polar plot measurements?

As I recall it did not (at the time) and thats why I went with Praxis.

I would love to see a device that does it all,polars,power compression,rt 60,distortion calculations,and all the rest.

Oldmics

discus96
01-07-2007, 01:20 PM
I just bought one EQ and RTA, it is the Behringer Ultracurve pro 24/96.

It is a fully digital EQ with a room RTA and Auto RTA function. You must buy also the dedicated and calibreted Mic for RTA function.
It has also a lot of other usefull functions.
It is a fully balanced pro unit.

I have been using it for a week now and it works great.

www.behringer.com (http://www.behringer.com)

Mr. Widget
01-07-2007, 02:22 PM
Does the CLIO allow you to preform polar plot measurements?Yep... the current version will do polar plots and represent them as a directivity colored image map, a waterfall style, or a traditional polar plot. I haven't done any proper polar plots yet though as it is a pain without a proper turntable... there is an automated one that Old Colony sells that would be really nice but it costs two grand... kind of steep for a weekend warrior.


Widget

elliot
01-07-2007, 06:18 PM
Man I've been out of the loop for a while. Going to need a crash course/seminar to begin to full around with these systems. I guess one's readings/measuments are only as good as their Microphone. Is that a fair statement?

boputnam
01-07-2007, 06:41 PM
I gues one's readings/measuments are only as good as their Microphone. Is that a fair statement?:yes:

Meaningful, and repeatable measurements are crucial.

Earthworks makes some great reference mics - they are offered at great prices on the SIA Smaart website.

Robh3606
01-07-2007, 07:03 PM
I haven't done any proper polar plots yet though as it is a pain without a proper turntable...

Hello Widget

Well you can always make a manual one. That's one of my upcomming projects. Check this out

http://www.audiomatica.com/cliotoease.htm


Rob:)

Mr. Widget
01-07-2007, 07:21 PM
Check this out

http://www.audiomatica.com/cliotoease.htm
Whoa! That'll make your head spin!


Widget

johnaec
01-07-2007, 08:07 PM
Yep... the current version will do polar plots and represent them as a directivity colored image map, a waterfall style, or a traditional polar plot.Widget - how do they do the waterfall plots? Is it made up of a sequence of individual plots, or is there some other way that it's all done simultaneously?

John

Mr. Widget
01-07-2007, 10:13 PM
For any of these polar plots you must take measurements every 5° or choose another increment... after taking the measurements you save the info and CLIO will generate the polar plot, the waterfall plot, or the colored DI plot based on your data.


This is why an automated turntable is handy... you shoot it and then the table automatically moves the predetermined increment, then you shoot again... over and over again until you have all the required data. To do it all at once you would need an elaborate system with one mic at every location and a complex matrix for the inputs and mics....



Widget

moldyoldy
01-07-2007, 10:29 PM
What point does one center over the turntable axis?

I've assumed it would be the voice coil center for direct radiators, but I'm leery of assumptions... and what about horns and waveguides?