CL Ad Said: Big JBLs For $100 = L200 in the house!

[Wornears]

I saw the Charlotte, NC CL ad yesterday about 15 minutes after the posting time, and noticed the picture of the foil decal said L200. No mention of the model number in the title or text.

Long story short, I bought a pair of original L200 (first version) in walnut veneer for $100. Original drivers at first inspection, and cabs in the 7.5--8 range (water rings from plants on tops, but sides and front very good).

Interesting, they do not have foam grills, but a factory-looking black grill cloth mounted to a wood frame that velcros to the cabinet. Was this an option? I have not listened to them because the binding posts are gone/broken/incomplete. I figured for $100 I couldn't get hurt too much <G>

Probably the audio score of my lifetime for now and forever. I'm pondering which of my other speakers to sell to make room: ADS L-810, Rectilinear III, Frasier Mark V, AR-91, JBL L-88 Nova (unlikely).

Stayed up way too late last night reading all I could find on this site about them. Over 8 pages worth. What a resource we have here! Even though I have confirmed they are the less than desirable first version of the L200 series (in some posters' opinions) I plan to keep them stock (and mod the LX-16 crossover to L200A specs) and evaluate them on their baseline terms before upgrading/modding. We all know that we don't hear specifications and I'll let my ears be the judge. Although I have never had a speaker of this caliber.

Right now the clear and present action is to replace the binding posts because one of the (-) ones is gone from one of the LX-16 crossovers, and the others are just metal pins with no spring caps. I've pulled one LX-16 out as much as the wiring will let me (not all the way out) and see that I'll have to drill out its cover rivets to get to the internals. Anyone have any advice on this procedure and what modern binding posts to consider? I don't think esoteric (nitrogen-cooled, molecule aligned) posts are necessary.

Because I can't listen to them yet, I am favoring pulling all the drivers and checking the internals, which will let me fully extract the LX-16, but a seasoned audio friend of mine suggests that I won't know, if there is a problem with them later, whether I introduced the issue, or it was already there. What say you all?

I usually just fire up a new-to-me speaker on a stable power setup, but none before these have made me consider such a thorough pre-driving inspection because their replacement cost and historical value (to me) wasn't that high.

I'll post pics later -- I just barely got them in the house and managed to assuage she who must be obeyed about their bulk and why I could not pass them up. Thankfully after almost 30 years of marriage, she is tolerant to these audio escapades.

#1 S/N = 11326
#1 LX-16 = #11034

#2 S/N = 11329
#2 LX-16 = #11013

Thanks for any help and comments.

[Titanium Dome]

HS Batman, what a score! Congratulations.

I can't answer all your questions as well as some others will, but I will second your friend's advice to go easy on the gratuitous disassembly. Patience is a virtue in this case.

Of course, some of our members would already have them in parts on the floor for a look/see, but since this is your lucky day, go slow.

Good luck.

[toddalin]

Interesting, they do not have foam grills, but a factory-looking black grill cloth mounted to a wood frame that velcros to the cabinet. Was this an option?

Thanks for any help and comments.

Like this??? I made these myself and yours are probably the same way. Far easier than trying to get the foam and IMO more actractive with a better WAF.

BTW, nice score!

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/speaker1.jpg

[Robh3606]

Wow nice score!! I wouldn't be too fast to start taking them apart unless you have too. I would just fix the broken terminals and fire them up to see what you have. As far as there desireabillity well my friend used a pair as DJ speakers for years and the crowd loved them. They were fun to listen too and they could beat you senseless with the right recordings. People loved to dance to music through them. Don't make up your mind until you power them up with your favorite 70's rock tunes.

Rob:)

[mike]

You may find that they are very enjoyable despite the negative things that you have read. I have not heard a pair in many years but in the right room with the right amplification they probably do some things quite well.

Mike

[4313B]

Interesting, they do not have foam grills, but a factory-looking black grill cloth mounted to a wood frame that velcros to the cabinet. Was this an option?Those were replacement grilles JBL sold after they ran out of the foam jobs. Same with the L100.

Even though I have confirmed they are the less than desirable first version of the L200 seriesAs the years go by and these various models become more scarce I think they all become desirable.

Anyway, great price. Have fun! :)

[Wornears]

Thanks to all for their replies, and to Giskard for clarifying about the grills -- explains why they look "factory."

They are going to be a fun project and they have made me appreciate more and more how much a resource this site is for the JBL owner.

[markd51]

Hello Wornears,
I've read your posts, and have also responded to you in the AK Forum. Congrats again on the great find, and also welcome to the LH Forum.

Have you had any success about technical suggestions-help about your missing binding posts?

Can someone here hopefully help this man with the parts, or perhaps point him in the right direction?

A friend of mine also once made a nice inexpensive score at the Goodwill, finding two pair of JBL L-100's at $40 a pair, and had a similar problem where the end caps, and little springs were missing for the Speaker Connectors.

He claimed that he somehow added a screw of some sort, and then hard soldered his speaker Cables directly to them, but I never personally seen the fix, and this sounds poor at best to me.

Speakers such as yours definitely deserve proper care, and restoration with the correct parts if they can be had-acquired.

If not, and I was forced to make a modification in this area, and that there was also the required space to permit it, it would be to a high quality pair of 5-Way Binding Posts, such as made by Cardas, WBT, or Edison-Price.

This sadly was one weak point of many vintage JBL Speakers, in that they used these little push pins, and one could not insert much larger than 16gauge wire, unless one used something like the Monster Cable Adapter Pins, or made Binding Post Modifications.

Again, I wish you the best of luck finding what you need, and please do keep us posted on the outcome.

As I mentioned before, these babies once they are up, and running will totally rock your world! A darn fine speaker IMO, and one I regret not buying many many years ago new when I had the chance. Of course my four JBL L-65 Jubals that I bought new 33 years ago do keep me quite happy! :-) Hoping that one day in my future, a pair of JBL 4343, or 4345 Monitors will grace my living room! Mark

[Wornears]

Hi Mark: No suggestions on the binding posts yet, but a little net searching will yield some candidates I'm sure. Thanks for your suggestions. It is beyond me how my original JBL L-36's stock binding pins have survived all these years -- JBL didn't splurge on connectors in those days.

The prime limitation will likely be space -- once I get the LX-16 crossover open I'll know how much I have to work with. Hope to get into them this weekend.

I should think four L-65s would make for a satisfactory sound presentation -- they were actually the JBL speaker I most lusted after -- but these L200 came along. That attraction was based on the typical pivotal first-time hearing of them in a friend's house in the mid-70s (he sold audio).

I see you are in Alamagordo, NM. I graduated from Clovis, NM HS in '72 -- my dad was a lifer in the USAF, so I know the air bases/government installations of NM.

My wife and I spent many years in Las Cruces, we met and married there, and lived in LC from 1972--1992 with forays to Austin TX and Tucson, AZ for jobs and grad school in that span.

We lit out to NC for my job in '92, but go back every year or so to NM to visit friends and relatives. I think I saw ZZ Top at the VFW in Alamo in '70 or so -- the exact memory has been lost to the "fog" of the time. Might have been in Portales <G>.

[markd51]

Hello again,
So far, I see no posted solutions to your Binding Post dilemma.

In all actuality, JBL themselves should have the proper replacements, and you would think they'd keep such an item in stock all this time, as so many of thier vintage speakers used these push pin connectors, and as you can see, these aren't exactly a well made bulletproof item, so I suspect over the years there were mucho failures with these.

If these L-200's were mine, I'd most definitely try installing better Binding Posts, and although you can walk into any Rat Shack and buy them, this is an area in which I myself wouldn't skimp.

Many times, high grade 5-way Binding Posts such as Cardas, or Edison-Price will come mounted on a Plastic, or Lexan Plate to permit the use of Dual Banana plugs. In this assemblage, there would most likely be an incompatibility of the spacing of the original LX-16 Binding Posts. Most of these modern Dual 5-ways can be disassembled, and placed individually onto the LX-16 )if there's room) anyway you like.

I've honestly never been much of a lover of the Banana Connector versus sturdy Spade Lugs. There's usually less contact area with the Banana, and many Banana Plugs out there can be a quite sloppy, loose fit. (The exception would be the WBT Locking Banana Plug)

While WBT makes outstanding products, most of thier Speaker Cable Lugs require a Crimp Sleeve, and thier Crimping Pliers to properly utilize thier Lug System.

Zillions of folks sell the Cardas 5-Way posts such as Wellborne Labs I believe, and MusicDirect also carries these, and the Edison-Price 5-Ways, which is what I have on my four L-65 Jubals. (All four of my Jubals have custom made to spec X-overs with better parts "Inductors, Caps, and 100 watt L-Pads", so the incorporation of larger 5-Way binding posts was a simple matter for me)

Hope this helps my friend, and that you can come to a working conclusion quickly, and without too much hassle.
Cool about your foray in New Mexico, I've only been here 3 years, and was originally from Chicago. Mark

[Wornears]

OK, finally got around to some pics -- only one cab so far.

I've vowed to "play" with the audio gear I have about one hour a day if I can so that I don't get the itch to look for other stuff. Seems to be working -- at least keeping me in the house.

Today I opened up one of the L200 to check out to confirm it has the correct drivers -- it does. I recorded all their S/N. The LE15B woofer and LE85 are heavy. Make all the other drivers I've ever held/worked with seem like toys. The wax seals on the horn weren't broken, so I gather it has never been tampered with -- at least in this cabinet. Hope to get into the other tomorrow.

Measured Woofers at the crossover's plate separate posts at 4.0 ohm & 5.5-ohm
Measure Horns at 6.1-ohm & 6.5-ohm

But still have to go inside the crossover boxes because as you can see one of the binding posts is gone and the other is broken -- on the cab in the photos. The one pic shows the flower pot water stains on the top of the cabs. Rest of the veneer is very good.

After playing (huffing and puffing) with these JBL L200 drivers, I have concluded that L200s are manly speakers, I must say. <G>!

[Wornears]

Forum only allows 5 at a time. Here's #6.

[spwal]

nice score man! :applaud:

[Wornears]

Thanks to all for your comments and congrats on my lucky find.

I've attached a few more pics of the L200s showing their cosmetics. I have done nothing to the cabs since getting them. You can see the top of the cabs were used as flower pot stands and have water stains. Plus, one of the side grills cloths is torn in one speaker. The other three are fine. The front grills are in great shape on each. The side veneer on both speakers is in very good shape.

1) I've done a little online research concerning refinishing/restoring speaker cabs, and as you can see these tops' finish are not pristine. Going to have to sand the veneer and refinish I think. The wood is fine underneath. Guess I could stack my Rectilinear IIIs on these to hide the mess.

Can you all give me an idea of what steps and products you'd take to clear up the cab tops? I would like to start with the least intrusive to the most aggressive -- short of re-veneering. Any magic elixirs out there?

2) The vent grill cloth is likely to be hard to find to match. Any sources? Or does anyone have some I can purchase? How do you extract the side grill cloth? It is not obvious to me at a first glance.

Thanks again to all for your help/suggestions.

[louped garouv]

sweet deal you got there....

enjoy them... :)

[majick47]

Recommend you spend some time going thru numerous posts re refinnishing cabinets, there's tons of excellent info. From the pics the cabinets look like a very light sanding and reoil will bring them back to life. Check for posts re removing water stains. You will be shocked at how good they will look when completed. The crowning touch would be a pair of Sonofaguns foam grills for your L200. Zilchs original JBL blue grill cloth over the screens also looks terrific.

[Wornears]

Majick -- you're right of course. The "Search" function is my friend on the refinishing. I've yet to find anything on the original side grill cloth's attachment or a source for it.

Thanks for the encouraging words on bringing the tops back.

[SEAWOLF97]

I'm pondering which of my other speakers to sell to make room: ADS L-810, Rectilinear III, Frasier Mark V, AR-91, JBL L-88 Nova (unlikely).


My guess is the Rectilinears are the first to go , although I dont know what the Frasiers are. I like the smaller a/d/s speakers and assume larger ones are nice too. :applaud:

[Nightbrace]

Amazing deal!

[majick47]

Wornears keep an eye out for 60s early 70s JBL brown grills like the L88 that used the same material as far as I can see. Once in a while the side grills show up on Ebay but not often.

[SMKSoundPro]

I have my L200b's upstairs above the main bar hooked up to a Pioneer SX-737 receiver and cd player. I have been listening to Brian Setzer Orchestra while I am building 5 SR4719a knock-offs. These L200's are VERY enjoyable!!! I have not had a minute to refoam the 136a woofers, yet and therefore am using 2235's.

I sand the walnut veneer with 320 grit on a porter-cable 5" random orbit sander to get the yuk off. BE CAREFUL not to go too deep!!!

Then apply any walnut colored WATCO oil liberally and let it soak in for 20 minutes. Then reapply some more watco oil on a rag and wipe the cabs. The new oil tends to cut the old oil and the result is dramatic! Let the cabs dry overnight. Beware of the smell of the watco oil. DISPOSE OF THE OLD RAGS APPROPRIATELY!

You can also apply a watco satin wax on the cabs and rub, and rub, and rub and OH MY!; what a finish!!!

My pair of L200b's had the old, small push terminals on the back that were worn-out. I had some larger push-button terminals from some McCauley 18" baskets laying around that worked like a champ! After tightening all screws, and cleaning them up, they are really fun to listen to! The guy from the juke box veding company came by and remarked how well they sounded and looked! He's an Altec fan from the old Seeburg juke box days and was teary eyed that someone else cared enough to save the L200b's from the wrecking ball or great Aunt Edna's damned wet sloppy plant rings!!!

Great Score!!!! Get them fixed up and start enjoying them!!!

Scott.

[Thom]

On those posts while they changed slightly over the years if they are original they will be blind. Theory being that if the lead can go all the way through the part sticking out the back may get you into trouble.

[Wornears]

Found some decent binding posts on Parts Express and replaced the broken ones in the stock LX-16 crossovers this weekend. Had to drill out the original rivets to get the crossovers' back off. Lots of room in the metal box where the binding posts are, so no space issues with the new ones. Just don't want to use too long a self-tapping screw when re-attaching the backs or you'll contact "live" wiring.

Played around with a few receivers and amps:

Grommes 502M tube receiver = 15wpc -- impressive bass from such a small unit.

Yamaha A1020 integrated = 125wpc -- typically clean & uncolored

Yamaha 2020 receiver = 105 wpc -- typically clean & uncolored

Carver M-1.5 = 350 wpc amp with Yamaha C-60 pre = big punch & could make the horn get honking at higher volume. The Carver isn't subtle.

Nikko Alpha II amp = 120 wpc (dual-mono amp) with the C-60 pre = just right for now in this small room, 14 x 30-ft.

The C-60 has MM/MC inputs for my Pioneer PL-L1000 linear tracking TT and its MM and MC cartridges -- I listen to mostly vinyl, but some CDs.

All I can say is: Oh my Soul! First time I've ever heard a 15-inch woofer in a consumer speaker and color me convinced! I've heard bass from Patty Griffin's and Lucinda William's new CDs that I've never heard before. The highs and mids are very fine for my taste -- I've played some Chopin and Mozart piano CDs and the mids are front and center. Monk sounds like he's pushing a wall of tone at you.

No doubt the best $100 I'll ever spend for speakers in my lifetime.

A few coats of Watco rejuvenating oil have really brought the cabinets up -- one top is almost presentable; the other (which was the worse by far) at least isn't dry as a bone. I have my Rectilinear III pair atop the L200s (with cloth mats between) so don't see the tops anyway <G>

Having some big vinyl fun tonight...Thanks to all for their great suggestions and comments on my find, and for all the info that is archived here. These are not going anywhere.

[mech986]

:applaud: :applaud: Congrats on your restoration project. As for your new conversion to large format speakers, there's no substitute for cubic inches, despite what Blose has to say.

And as always shows up in these kinds of threads:

:useless: of the refinished stuff of course.

Hehe, waiting to see the project in situ.

BTW, do you have a shot of the side fabrics showing the weave and color better? If it is the JBL Brown, I might have some of that lying around here on some older grilles. For ex, I have some L19's that have holes on the edges but the bulk of the brown fabric is fine.

I thought though that the side fabrics were a little "thicker" or stiffer and the brown was a bit darker (almost a black?) but its been around 10 years since I've seen a L200 in person.

Some dimensions of the side fabric would be helpful to know if what I've got or others have would work for you. You sent me the JBL Blue, I could return the favor.

Regards,

Bart

[Wornears]

Hi Bart:

They are not fully restored, but very playable <G>. I've attached a couple of pics. It's clear that one of the woofers is different from the other: darker cone and dustcap with flat nose. Reconed? Later in the production run? Re-dustcapped? White ink stamped on the back of the black woofer cone is V or W HF 5516 -- which doesn't match any speaker codes I have.

From the markings on its backplate it is identical to the other, light-coned LE15B, 6--8 ohm impedance. Its stamped serial # is 11211, and the other's is 11215 -- so I would guess the frames are close in production. The back cover and spider look untouched. They sound identical. Any comments from these woofer pics?

The cloth fabric on the sides of the L200 vents is the same color and woven consistency as the L-88 Nova on top of the bookshelf: a dark, thick brown with a gold color weave. Not a typical cloth grill like on my JBL L-36. Early '60s--early '70s fabric I'd guess.

My 15 year old son keeps bringing his guitar playing buds to see these. "Turn it down dad!"