JBL E-110 Help Needed...

[Loud & Clear]

:) Does anyone have, or can tell me where I can find, an E-110 frequency/SPL graph? :confused:

[speakerdave]

I looked everywhere I could think of last summer and did not find one.

David

[Loud & Clear]

I looked everywhere I could think of last summer and did not find one.

DavidNever mind everybody. I found one speakerdave! It's right here on the forum. :applaud: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=10635

[speakerdave]

Thanks, Giskard.

Clear:

Here's a thread where Z-man made some enclosure suggestions.
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=11305&highlight=e110

David

[Loud & Clear]

Ok, now submitted for your approval: I plan on building two cabinets loaded with 2 E-110 mids, one 2405 tweeter, and one N-7000 x-over. These will go on top my Klipsch clone K-horns. I will X them at 400hz on the bottom end. I chose to use two of the E-110's so's to get 101db at 1 watt/1 meter. This would more closely match the 102.90db 1w/1m that the JBL 2225h's are achieving at 400hz in the horn enclosures at present. Any input would be appreciated... :) :) :)

[speakerdave]

Since you are using two of them you could make the crossover frequency lower. You will get some acoustic coupling between the E110's beginning at the frequency from which the distance between their centers is one-half wavelength (and down from there).

Using two cone midranges there will be some additional horizontal dispersion over just one, but I don't know how much or at what frequencies it will work best. You would be playing the E110's through their bumpy band, and they will be beaming certainly above 2k. That crossover is designed to match the 075 to a midhorn, which is what you need in addition to a cone bass-mid driver, and the 2122 would be better for that (to about 1.5k).

David

[Loud & Clear]

Since you are using two of them you could make the crossover frequency lower. You will get some acoustic coupling between the E110's beginning at the frequency from which the distance between their centers is one-half wavelength.

Using two cone midranges there will be some additional horizontal dispersion over just one, but I don't know how much or at what frequencies it will work best. You would be playing the E110's through their bumpy band, and they will be beaming certainly above 2k. That crossover is designed to match the 075 to a midhorn, which is what you need in addition to a cone bass-mid driver, and the 2122 would be better for that (to about 1.5k).

David:) That is interesting. I am not real familiar with the 2122. I did, however, check the freq./spl chart. What you are essentially saying. Is that it is unwise to use a cone driver through that wide a freq. range? Or perhaps the use of a single cone would be beneficial? You also seem to be saying, a three way situation would be better, Incorporating a horn at around 2khz? I have been intriqued by the 2123h's response as well, accept in the lower part of it's band width. Thanks, Tom :confused:

Oh, and lest I forget, "HAPPY NEW YEAR"!!!

[speakerdave]

:) That is interesting. I am not real familiar with the 2122. I did, however, check the freq./spl chart. What you are essentially saying. Is that it is unwise to use a cone driver through that wide a freq. range? Or perhaps the use of a single cone would be beneficial? You also seem to be saying, a three way situation would be better, Incorporating a horn at around 2khz? I have been intriqued by the 2123h's response as well, accept in the lower part of it's band width. Thanks, Tom :confused:

Oh, and lest I forget, "HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

The 2122 is the midbass driver in the 4344 and 4345 monitors. It uses the same frame as the E110, LE10H AND LE111H. The 2123H is similar (used in the 4344 II) it has a more rising response than the 2122 and requires different treatment in the crossover filter.

It is OK to use a cone driver over a wide range if you like the way it sounds. The frequency response charts generally show on-axis response, which may maintain into the higher frequencies. The problem some see with that is that above the frequency at which the wave length equals the diameter of the cone the dispersion begins to narrow, so you need to study the polar plots also. Recent practice at JBL and elsewhere is to have an eye to the total response into the sound field as being at least as relevant as the on-axis response.

Of course many people, especially audiophiles listening to full range drivers and such, seem happy not worrying about that so much, as long as they can sit in the sweet spot.

But the E110 is also a musical instrument/SR speaker, so it has a peaky midrange to boot. Playing hi fi recordings through it probably would not sound very natural. Most people couldn't listen to it for very long.

For hi fi a single source for a frequency band is usually best, unless you are engineering for acoustic coupling or controlling the angles of dispersion in a cohesive array or making a d'Appolito MTM. However, I think your idea for stacked bass-midranges over the K-horn bottom has merit. That would probably work quite well up to about 1.2k. There is an interaction between drivers arranged that way that I don't really understand. I think the two pressure zones squish each other into more horizontal dispersion, so the beaming effect may be compensated for by that to some frequency higher than the start of beaming from a single driver. And then play a midhorn and tweeter above them.

Generally, however, starting with a K-horn bottom, most people would think of using a horn for the upper bass, and a midhorn and a tweeter slot or horn, so that you would have a complete horn system. I'm sure you've seen discussion of such things on other forums like the Klipsch forum.

David

[Loud & Clear]

The 2122 is the midbass driver in the 4344 and 4345 monitors. It uses the same frame as the E110, LE10H AND LE111H. The 2123H is similar (used in the 4344 II) it has a more rising response than the 2122 and requires different treatment in the crossover filter.

It is OK to use a cone driver over a wide range if you like the way it sounds. The frequency response charts generally show on-axis response, which may maintain into the higher frequencies. The problem some see with that is that above the frequency at which the wave length equals the diameter of the cone the dispersion begins to narrow, so you need to study the polar plots also. Recent practice at JBL and elsewhere is to have an eye to the total response into the sound field as being at least as relevant as the on-axis response.

Of course many people, especially audiophiles listening to full range drivers and such, seem happy not worrying about that so much, as long as they can sit in the sweet spot.

But the E110 is also a musical instrument/SR speaker, so it has a peaky midrange to boot. Playing hi fi recordings through it probably would not sound very natural. Most people couldn't listen to it for very long.

For hi fi a single source for a frequency band is usually best, unless you are engineering for acoustic coupling or controlling the angles of dispersion in a cohesive array or making a d'Appolito MTM. However, I think your idea for stacked bass-midranges over the K-horn bottom has merit. That would probably work quite well up to about 1.2k. There is an interaction between drivers arranged that way that I don't really understand. I think the two pressure zones squish each other into more horizontal dispersion, so the beaming effect may be compensated for by that to some frequency higher than the start of beaming from a single driver. And then play a midhorn and tweeter above them.

Generally, however, starting with a K-horn bottom, most people would think of using a horn for the upper bass, and a midhorn and a tweeter slot or horn, so that you would have a complete horn system. I'm sure you've seen discussion of such things on other forums like the Klipsch forum.

David :) I was going to go the full horn route, but I was having trouble with the Tractrix Calculation for the mid-bass. So I simplified it a bit. I also studied JBL horns, and drivers that would go that low. For the horn part itself all I could find is the 2" throat bi-radial 20* X 40* dispersion. I figured this less than optimal for the sound staging. I know that the big 2360 series will go that low, but they are quite large. As for drivers, I was looking at the 2485, and the alnico 2482. Quite interesting.

I actually can build my own X-over. As for the low cutoff, I am bi-amped, Xing at 90-400 variable. Actually I have a greater range than that, but for the K-Horn 400hz is pretty much tops. On an SPL diagram I put together. I am getting 102.90db at 400hz, 101.30db at 450hz, and 100.00db at 500hz. Who knows, if I can cross the stystem at 500hz, that would solve alot of problems. ;)

Tom

Edit: I do have a great EQ.:)

[grumpy]

might want to wander around this site too:

http://home.comcast.net/~wooferboy/Page_3.html

-grumpy

[Loud & Clear]

might want to wander around this site too:

http://home.comcast.net/~wooferboy/Page_3.html

-grumpy:o: Wow! Many Thanks gumpy. That is exactly what I am trying to do. I have looked at that site many times, but I did NOT see that part. I don't know how it eluded me... I'm off to start reading... :applaud:

Edit: Looks like they have engineered a "d'Appolito" configuration. Personally I would build mine to stand up vertically, and mount the tweeter in the middle. My listening room will not allow me to use the 45* angled top end. The angle is entirely different. Looks like a similiar design to what I had in mind. However, they have engineered a nice X-over network. Can't wait to see the 2012 project... :)