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gyusher
12-20-2003, 04:31 PM
Help. . .I just sold a pair of MINT L-112s that worked perfect. . .Now the new owner says one woofer wont work at all, a broken crossover. . .Says the spiders are severly warped and he has to have both woofers reconed. . . . I knew nothing of this, I played those speakers every day all day right up to the day I put them in their boxes and shipped them to him. . .The guy seems honest and sincere. . .Someone tell me about "Warped Spiders" please . . . .I am going to have both reconed at considerable expense. . .Shouldnt I have been able to hear such a gross problem????

gyusher
12-20-2003, 04:43 PM
I just had the woofers refoamed by a JBL service center and I asked then about the condition of the woofers and to fix any potential problems. . .He said they were fine. Now three months later and the buyer lives 500 miles away I am at his mercy. The buyer took the woofers to a JBL center and was advised to recone both. . .Had I known I would not have sold them without at least mentioning it in the description or fixing them first.
The thing that jacks me is that they worked so well and sounded so good to now all of a sudden be junk. . . .

4313B
12-20-2003, 04:43 PM
Have an Authorized JBL Service Center look at them and determine the condition of the spiders. I would think you would be able to hear severely warped spiders.

I would be suspicious of a broken crossover. The L96 and L112 used a very sturdy crossover network with well mounted components that would be quite tough to damage during shipping. Perhaps one of the wires is loose.

gyusher
12-20-2003, 04:46 PM
Im understand the crossover problem. . .The "Choke" for lack of a better word was broke loose from the board and was hanging down. . .I think that speaker was dropped. . .I have another pair of crossovers that I sent the buyer. . . .

4313B
12-20-2003, 04:59 PM
Must have been a very early L112 because the inductors were all bolted down in the later versions. Earlier versions were held down with a metal strap. The earliest versions must have simply been held down with hot melt glue. They used two different inductors, the earliest used a tiny iron core and the final versions used the large air core. Anyway, it sounds like you took care of it.

Robh3606
12-20-2003, 05:01 PM
What is a warped spider?? How do they get warped?? I have seen them sag with cone if the drivers are not turned periodically when stored face up or down.

Rob :)

4313B
12-20-2003, 05:05 PM
Maybe the guy thinks the ridges in the spiders are warps...

4313B
12-20-2003, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by Robh3606
What is a warped spider?? How do they get warped??Dunno, I've never seen a severely warped spider and I've seen a few that were seriously water damaged.

gyusher
12-20-2003, 05:47 PM
"What is a warped spider" That is the question. . . .The buyer left both woofers at a music shop in Chicago where he lives. . .The repairman told him that the spider was warped.. . . . The first complaint was that one woofer didnt work. . .My first thought was a wire was loose as the tweeter and midrange were working fine. I told the buyer to lay the speaker on its back and pull the woofer. . .Check for a loose wire at the woofer and the crossover. . .We did this during a phone conversation, during his inspection he mentioned the coil or choke hanging down looked broken. . .I could hear the woofer scratchiness over the phone as he pushed the cone in and out. . .My first thought was that he had tried to play it too loud while it was still cold from its journey but the broken crossover told me that it must have been dropped.
Having no experience with the UPS insurance and not wanting to get them involved I told him to take it to a JBL service center and get an estimate on fixing it and I would pay the charges. Not knowing the recone job was 194.00. . .Now wanting to get insurance to cover the damage suddenly its a warped spider that wouldnt be covered by insurance.
Anyway I told him to get them both repaired using JBL parts at a JBL service center, I sent him 2 crossovers that must be later versions as it has a bolt through that choke or coil.
Live and learn. . .Next time its a call to UPS imediatly and they can pick them up and determine what the problem is. Frustrating because they worked flawlessly for a long, long time untill now and all of a sudden they are junk. . .
I had never heard of a warped spider that would all of a sudden stop it dead in its tracks. . .,Oh Well. . . .I dont know what more I can do. . .

boputnam
12-20-2003, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by gyusher
I dont know what more I can do. . . Hey, Guy... :(
I'm lost in the verbosity as to what has already been done, but if you've not done anything, I would demand they be returned to you, refund the buyer his cost and shipping, and be done with it. Get 'em home, where they belong. This whole thing sounds like :bs:

gyusher
12-20-2003, 06:50 PM
After the buyer took the woofers to the service center for repair I told him they were his now and he had better be happy with his decision to get them reconed. I gave him crossovers and I intend to give him 100 bucks towards the repair. . .If thats not enough then home they come.
I want to do the right thing but after all these are 25 year old speakers that worked right. They were not new and if he wants new its going to have to be with his nickel not mine.
I asked him to get a estimate only and he made the decision to leave them to be repaired. I will help to the extent thats fair but thats it.

4313B
12-20-2003, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by gyusher
I could hear the woofer scratchiness over the phone as he pushed the cone in and out. . .The recone center should be able to determine if the drivers suffered electrical or mechanical damage. Back in the day when JBL drivers had extremely small gaps it was considered barbaric to attempt to manipulate the moving assembly with something as crude as the human hand. :scold:
I guess it's ok to paw a 128H though :duck:

gyusher
12-20-2003, 09:26 PM
The service guy said the damage was not electricle but was caused from a "Warped Spider". . . .Thats why I am crazy now. . .They worked and sounded perfect 1 day earlier at my house as they have sounded every day I owned them. . . .That was my question Why all of a sudden did it quit? The buyer calls me on the phone sqweaks the woofer at me and says "shit" give me money. . . .Basicly. . . .
BTW I agree that drivers are to be heard by electricity not by hand. I was taught that you dont touch the drivers period.

lpd
12-21-2003, 12:19 AM
Not to be unreasonable, but I would request a picture of the damaged driver, and also the number of the repair shop to speak directly to the repair person. I have had a few people in my years of selling vintage gear attempt to claim damaged goods, looking for a rebate/refund ect. only to never return a complaint when asked for pictures of the damage. I fully refund damaged goods, but not ones I can't see. You could have also offered to have him send the damaged driver to you to inspect and have repaired. Just my 1/2 cents worth.

Oldmics
12-21-2003, 01:20 AM
I have seen a fair amount of warped spiders.More so in E.V. products than in JBL.These range from mild to severe.I have a coupla theorys about this.I believe that to get the desired tension on the spider or perhaps for flame retardent reasons spiders are sprayed with some sort of chemical.As this sprayed on material drys out over a period of many years,it drys in an uneven fashion creating the warpage.The other observation that I have made is where there is an uneven spread or a blob of adhesive at the coil/cone/spider joint,this will create a tension due to the extra mass and spiders start to ripple from this location also.Many of these severy warped spiders play just fine.I do however recommend reconing when a spider has collapsed and has no tension left.Oldmics

gyusher
12-21-2003, 01:23 AM
I think you guys nailed it. . .I have asked for pics and the old parts as well as the number of the repair shop. . . .

jbl
12-26-2003, 05:37 PM
Hey Gyusher;
The problem would seem to be in transit. You should have contacted the shipping company first. Did the buyer indicate to you that there was damage to the shipping carton? The damage you discribed can only be if the cabinet(s) were dropped. How can the spider be warped?
You offered money as well as other compensation, in my opinion, far above what many people would offer. Most would say that the sale was "as is", which it was unless you stated otherwise with a guarrentee or other assurances.
If the buyer is still not satisfied after all you have done to rectify the problem, they will never be.
As far as collecting insurance money from the shipping company, I'm afraid that too much time has past to file a claim now.
Good Luck

jbl

Don C
12-26-2003, 07:14 PM
It just doesn't make sense to me. I have never seen that kind of damage without also having other more obvious damage to the cabinets or crossovers. Something fishy may be going on. Unfortunately I have run into people on eBay who seem to do this on every purchase. Even if the item was perfect or if all flaws were disclosed, the buyers see opportunity to get some of their money back by griping after the fact. The only defense is to offer full refund and demand return of the goods. Even if you do that you may find that the buyer puts a different woofer in before returning them, or packs them poorly for the return trip. It stinks.
On the other hand, being a buyer obviously has its hazards as well, and over time the good buyers do seem to outnumber the bad ones. At least in my experience they have.

gyusher
12-27-2003, 12:47 PM
Fortunatly or unfortunatly this sale was not on eBay. . .A bidder that had bid on my auction bought them after the fact. We had extensive communications from the time he placed his first bid up untill now.
I dont know what to think anymore. . . I have experience with the buyers that want money by saying something is wrong when I know better. Usually what I do is tell them to pack it up and send it back. . .I will pay shipping both ways but no partial refunds. . .All or nothing. . .Usually this stops them and they keep the item.
A lot of time has passed on this deal and after thinking about it I will send him the extra crossovers and I have a spare 128H woofer (a little flakey but works fine) that I will send him too. Thats it. . .No money unless he returns both speakers. I shipped them in their original boxes and put those in another box as well. They worked perfect for me right up to the day I shipped them.
Either I am slow or this guy is really slick as I really got sucked in on this deal. . .