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View Full Version : Model 19 xover help (or not, you tell me)



spwal
12-25-2006, 02:47 PM
Hello,

was going to ask you good people....

Iconic makes new xovers for the 19.... but they are a pretty penny to say the least. I briefly exchanged emails with them and at 700 a pair, that is simply out of the question. Of course they said their xover is MUCH better... well that doenst make me feel to good about my potential purchase now does it... ! Im not gonna lie, i was damn lucky to get a pair of 1980 Klipsch Cornwalls with the ALK crossovers brand new... boy did i luck out! But alas they have moved on, and here i am, ready to try Altec!

Is it ESSENTIAL to change the xover?

Do i HAVE to get new capacitors? That many new high quality caps is gonna cost a fortune... cost me 70 bucks for a pair of Angela coupling caps for my amp.. my stomach turns looking at all those big caps in the xovers!

I am concerned that I am going to get these and the caps are going to be all funked up. I dont even know what the symptoms of dried out caps are anyway... how am i gonna know???

I MAY get lucky with a pair of 19s locally. I will keep my fingers crossed. These may be too big for my own good, but I managed with cornwalls in my bedroom, whats another few inches in every direction lolz!!

Please help me out, put my mind at ease! Save me from buying an 8" Full Range Driver speaker (that i had planned on getting for months before i caught the bigger-is-better bug again) :biting:

I would really appreciate it.

Thanks,

Spwal

spwal
12-25-2006, 03:36 PM
You know what...

after reading all the posts on the 19 in exhautium, i just think i better stay away. I dont know the last word in what drivers go in them, i dont know about the crossover, and everything else. I certainly wont have any $$ left over to spend on restoring them. I need a turnkey solution right out of the box that rocks. I dont even think the owner is interested in hooking these up for a listen before i buy them.

Anyway, please put me at ease, or dont. :)

Thanks

scott fitlin
12-25-2006, 03:53 PM
OK, assuming everything is in working condition, they can be a good buy. After you have and listen to them for a bit, you can determine if you want to rebuild or buy new xover networks.

You could try calling Great Plains Audio in Ok City, and talking to Bill, he could suggest a cost effective solution for you. He could probably replace the old caps and L Pads on your existing crossovers, much less expensive than purchasing new crossovers.

GPA is also good for remagnetizing the old Alnico magnets, and he is reasonably priced.

Also, why wouldnt the owner want to allow you to listen to them before you buy? That would tell you right away if they work reasonably well, or not!

hjames
12-25-2006, 03:55 PM
You know what...

after reading all the posts on the 19 in exhautium, i just think i better stay away. I dont know the last word in what drivers go in them, i dont know about the crossover, and everything else. I certainly wont have any $$ left over to spend on restoring them. I need a turnkey solution right out of the box that rocks. I dont even think the owner is interested in hooking these up for a listen before i buy them.

Anyway, please put me at ease, or dont. :)

Thanks

Well, I would always advise listening to a set of speakers before you buy them.
First, speakers can get old and not work as well as they should,
and second, because different speakers sound differently, and you may not like the sound of a given set of speakers.

Fixing them up and changing parts and such can be fun, but its only fun if you like that kind of thing -
its not recommended for everyone!

And if they won't hook them up for a listen, well - there may be a reason for that
- or not - only you can tell if you want to take that kind of a gamble.

But .. you wouldn't buy a car without driving it first ...

scott fitlin
12-25-2006, 04:00 PM
And if they won't hook them up for a listen, well - there may be a reason for that - or not - only you can tell if you want to take that kind of a gamble. But .. you wouldn't buy a car without driving it first ...Ditto.

You havent said how much the original owner is asking for the speakers. And, if they are in great condition, he should have no problem in allowing you a half hour listening, and playing with the L Pads, etc.

John
12-25-2006, 04:21 PM
Stick with the original xovers, I am sure they are ok. Most likely if there is a problem it will be a dirty L-pad.

Stay away from hyped up super-xovers:banghead:

spwal
12-25-2006, 04:35 PM
Thanks guys... he sounds like a lazy old grumpus that doesnt want to take thetime to hook these up. he sells them "guaranteed" whatever that means lol...

Also:


"Stick with the original xovers, I am sure they are ok. Most likely if there is a problem it will be a dirty L-pad.

Stay away from hyped up super-xovers:banghead:"

is my favorite kind of advice.

but seriously... how will i know if my xover network is failing me?? Is it obvious?

thanks!

Todd W. White
12-25-2006, 04:52 PM
Model 19's - when operating as they were designed and are powered by excellent electronics and fed a QUALITY recording - are one of the most impressive sounding loudspeaker systems you will ever listen to.

Are they perfect?

No - what is?

But they're IMPRESSIVE!

By that, I mean this:

The Model 19 is capable of incredible dynamic range, excellent frequency response, and a naturalness of reproduction that is, quite simply, hard to beat at any price.

Can they be improved?

Yes, but what can't?

As an Altec dealer, I used to rebuild Model 19 crossovers for customers when the cap's failed or started to, the L-pads got dirty (or burned: one guy played his electric guitar through them! Tore 'em up pretty good!), etc. My experience was that, by following the original design for the crossover - which does a whole LOT more in the Model 19 than just separate the frequencies for the horn and the woofer - and simply upgrading the components with better ones that had the same electrical characteristics, there was IMPROVED performance from the unit, particularly in the middle and upper bandwidth.

More natural, more transparent. More alive, really.

Is it as expensive to do this as you think?

No.

Is it WORTH it?

Maybe - but only if the ones you have aren't working properly.

How can you tell?

LISTEN to them! But beware: if the recordings you use to listen are flawed, the Model 19 will reproduce the flaws - warts and all - so don't just take one recording with you. Otherwise, you'll blame the Model 19's!

The best thing to do once you get them is have Great Plains Audio rebuild the HF driver and woofer, and test the crossovers, repairing them, as necessary.

Then you KNOW you've got them right!

If, after a while, you feel like you'd like to upgrade the crossovers, you can do so at a time that matches your cashflow situation and actual needs.

By the way - if the old fellow won't let you listen to them, I'd offer him 2/3 what he's asking for them, unheard, unless the price is waaaay too high, then I'd go for 1/2 of that and tell him why.

Paul C.
12-25-2006, 06:02 PM
With the Model 19 (and other Altecs) the crossover comes out easily.

Fortunately the coils and resistors are seldom damaged. You usually don't have to worry about replacing them.

The L-pads can get noisy and intermittant. You might be able to clean them, but the best thing to do is simply replace them.

L-pad, Mono, 100 w, 3/8" shaft Parts Express (www.partsexpress.com (http://www.partsexpress.com)) 260-262 (you will need two for each crossover, total 4)

Capacitors age, dry out, change value. (I am talking old speakers in general, not just Altecs) These usually have to be replaced. Finding the exact value can be difficult, but getting the nearest standard value is good enough. These are Parts Express numbers, too:

21 uf - This is not a standard value. Use 027-348 (NP Electrolytic 22 uf) *

8 uf - This is not a standard value. Use 027-426 (Dayton metalized poly 8.2 uf)

16 uf - This one IS a standard value. Use 027-578 (Solen metalized poly 16 uf)

6 uf - This is not a standard value. Use 027-427 (Dayton metalized poly 6.2 uf)

(You will need one of each value for each crossover, order 2 of each value)

These values are close enough.

* A NP electrolytic will work fine for the shunt capacitor in the woofer low pass section, but if you simply must use a poly for the 21 uf cap you may use 027-436 (20 uf) and parallel it with 027-410 (1 uf).

Simply snip out the old caps and solder in these. Only rework one crossover at a time so that you have the other one for reference. These caps will be a little larger than the original caps. Do not use hot glue to glue them in place. Use E6000 or Aleene's 7800 craft glues (craft section of Walmart or hobby/craft stores).

Storm
12-25-2006, 06:24 PM
Would you recommend updating the crossovers in my 846 Valencias?

What parts do I get?

Is it easy to do, or should I get someone to replace the stuff for me?

Thanks.

-Storm

Todd W. White
12-25-2006, 06:30 PM
Paul - your post is right on the money.

This is exactly what I did when rebuilding them for others back years ago. The only difference was that, at that time, I could still get the original parts from Altec, so I didn't have to mess around with components of different size or values. Usually, I recommend replacing the L-pads with fixed resistors. I have a re-worked version of the Model 19 crossover schematic that Jerry Hubbard did, and, using one of my personal, unused, original Model 19 crossovers, he placed the knobs at the optimum point, then measured them to arrive at the values for replacing the L-pads with fixed resistors. Works really well...

One caution - if you use iron core inductors, be SURE they have LOTS of iron, else they will saturate (read: sound BAD!).

Also, if memory serves, to get an air-core inductor to perform the same as the iron-core's, I believe they end up being pretty large.

Seems like I also remember there being a problem with certain capacitors we tried - some of them tended to physically resonate, as I recall. I'm sure newer components wouldn't have that problem... ;)

spwal
12-25-2006, 06:33 PM
With the Model 19 (and other Altecs) the crossover comes out easily.

Fortunately the coils and resistors are seldom damaged. You usually don't have to worry about replacing them.

The L-pads can get noisy and intermittant. You might be able to clean them, but the best thing to do is simply replace them.

L-pad, Mono, 100 w, 3/8" shaft Parts Express (www.partsexpress.com (http://www.partsexpress.com)) 260-262 (you will need two for each crossover, total 4)

Capacitors age, dry out, change value. These usually have to be replaced. Finding the exact value can be difficult, but getting the nearest standard value is good enough. These are Parts Express numbers, too:

21 uf - This is not a standard value. Use 027-348 (NP Electrolytic 22 uf) *

8 uf - This is not a standard value. Use 027-426 (Dayton metalized poly 8.2 uf)

16 uf - This one IS a standard value. Use 027-578 (Solen metalized poly 16 uf)

6 uf - This is not a standard value. Use 027-427 (Dayton metalized poly 6.2 uf)

(You will need one of each value for each crossover, order 2 of each value)

These values are close enough.

* A NP electrolytic will work fine for the shunt capacitor in the woofer low pass section, but if you simply must use a poly for the 21 uf cap you may use 027-436 (20 uf) and parallel it with 027-410 (1 uf).

Simply snip out the old caps and solder in these. Only rework one crossover at a time so that you have the other one for reference. These caps will be a little larger than the original caps. Do not use hot glue to glue them in place. Use E6000 or Aleene's 7800 craft glues (craft section of Walmart or hobby/craft stores).


It is stuff like this that really makes the world a better place. This should go down in the record books as a step by step xover overhaul for the 19. THANK YOU. Couldnt find anything on the net that was this helpful. :applaud:

Now i either need to learn how to solder, or take my Electrical Engineer friend out for beers...

johnaec
12-25-2006, 06:59 PM
Now i either need to learn how to solder, or take my Electrical Engineer friend out for beers...Just don't let him drink the beer *while* he's working on your crossovers... ;)

John

spwal
12-25-2006, 08:37 PM
No text....

please see Paul C.s posts for a breakdown on crossover parts from parts express.

Thanks

Gary L
12-25-2006, 11:08 PM
Here is two pics of Model 19 XOs.
The first is all original and completely stock and 29 years old.

The second is completely new parts on the same frame and built by PaulC above who gratiously provided the wish list of parts.
The two copper windings are air coils while the green coil is an iron core.
Note the larger size of the black capacitors and the work involved in fitting the new but larger electronics.

If you can't do it yourself then contact PaulC to see if he will help. He is very reasonable and does nothing but meticulous work.
If your knobs are nasty, contact me, I have a supply of original NOS knobs that are the exact same ones you have.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/Altec_Model19_Xovers_03.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/15-19XO2.jpg

Gary

spwal
12-26-2006, 05:22 AM
Yes, the new ones look beautiful. Great work! Thank you very much for the help. I think this is a good step by step instruciton for a beginner. Though im not going to get ahead of myself until i see the speakers, just looking at the tow xovers, i think that I will probably have to be replacing mine.

You guys are super helpful, thanks!

Gary L
12-26-2006, 06:44 AM
I do think you are missing a point we are trying to make SPWAL!

There is nothing at all wrong with the original stock 19 XOs. If they are working up to spec they are a good part of why the model 19 is so highly regarded as a fine vintage speaker.
As Todd White states, sure you might be able to make them better. I have heard good reports about the Iconic XOs. The ones PaulC made for me are also quite nice but I would have no reservation of leaving the original stock ones in my speakers if they sound good after the drivers are rebuilt and remagnetized at GPA. A simple thing like updating the capacitors might be all it will take to get that sweet 19 sound back after the drivers are made right.
I think if I were you, my plan would be to wait and listen when you get the speakers and if they are not broke then leave them be.
First and foremost on my list would be to have GPA check out all the drivers. If Bill says they are good to go and your speakers still don't sound right then you look into XO upgrades. If your drivers are tired and worn out or have lost their magnetism then new or updated XOs won't do a thing for you.
I hope I am explaining this right or in a way you can understand. XOs in my opinion are the last thing you do after all the other stuff is working right unless you are doing a complete restoration from the start.

Gary

Paul C.
12-26-2006, 09:12 AM
The crossovers that I built for GaryL were built from the Model 19 schematic on some stripped Model 15 crossover chassis. So, I had no parts to start with. I didn't replace the original inductors... there were none on the chassis GaryL supplied, so I had to buy some new ones.

Todd White said "Also, if memory serves, to get an air-core inductor to perform the same as the iron-core's, I believe they end up being pretty large."

Yes, you can see in the photo of GaryL's I used a 2.7 mH iron core for GaryL's crossover. The 2.7 would have been HUGE if an air core, though I did use air cores for the two smaller inductors.


In the list where spwal has the prices, note that you don't need the 22 uf electrolytic AND the 20 uf and 1 uf caps. You use for cap C1 either the 22 uf (which is what I would do) electrolytic OR you would use the 20 uf poly paralleled with the 1 uf poly (to equal 21 uf) in that position.

Sonically the poly, used for the shunt cap in the woofer low pass section would be of no benefit. But the poly's could be used there for the purpose of longevity. There would be no difference in sound in that particular place in the circuit, the way that cap functions.

The caps in the high pass portion, the 8 (or 8.2), 16, and 6 (or 6.2) uf caps will benefit sonically from use of poly's.

So, cost works out using the 22 uf np elec cap for C1

2 ea 027-348 Yes 22uF-100V NON-POLARIZED CAPACITOR .. (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-348&scqty=2)$0.75 $1.50
2 ea 027-426 Yes DAYTON DMPC-8.2 8.2uF-250V POLYPROPYLEN .. (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-426&scqty=2)$2.75 $5.50
2 ea 027-578 Yes SOLEN 16.0uF-400VDC POLYPROPYLENE CAPAC .. (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-578&scqty=2)$6.00 $12.00
4 ea 260-262 Yes L-PAD 100W MONO 3/8" SHAFT .. (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-262&scqty=4)$9.25 $37.00
2 ea 027-427 Yes DAYTON DMPC-6.2 6.2uF-250V POLYPROPYLEN .. (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-427&scqty=2)$2.15 $4.30

Subtotal: $60.30

Or using all poly's

2 ea 027-436 Yes DAYTON DMPC-20 20uF-250V POLYPROPYLENE .. (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-436&scqty=1)$4.95 $9.90
2 ea 027-410 Yes DAYTON DMPC-1.0 1.0uF-250V POLYPROPYLEN .. (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-410&scqty=1)$1.15 $2.30
2 ea 027-426 Yes DAYTON DMPC-8.2 8.2uF-250V POLYPROPYLEN .. (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-426&scqty=2)$2.75 $5.50
2 ea 027-578 Yes SOLEN 16.0uF-400VDC POLYPROPYLENE CAPAC .. (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-578&scqty=2)$6.00 $12.00
4 ea 260-262 Yes L-PAD 100W MONO 3/8" SHAFT .. (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-262&scqty=4)$9.25 $37.00
2 ea 027-427 Yes DAYTON DMPC-6.2 6.2uF-250V POLYPROPYLEN .. (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-427&scqty=2)$2.15 $4.30

Subtotal: $71.00

To quote GaryL "I think if I were you, my plan would be to wait and listen when you get the speakers and if they are not broke then leave them be."

Yes... If the L-pads are not noisy, don't replace them. That saves $37.00 right away. If one of the L-pads needs to be replace, the others are probably not far behind, might as well do all four while you have them apart.

Then after you get the speakers, give them a listen, and all is fine, don't fix what ain't broke. If you decide to replace the caps, which is an easy job, you or a friend could do yourself with a little soldering skill, there is the list above.

spwal
12-26-2006, 10:54 AM
Thank you very much. I will go ahead and delete my list so as to avoid confusion. I will give a call now to see how best to schdule a checkup for the drivers.

thanks

Sean

Tom Brennan
12-26-2006, 11:06 AM
You gotta remember that when you ask advice on a forum like this you'll be talking to some people who can never leave well enough alone and who tend to invent problems where none exist.

The best advice you got here was to listen to the speakers; use them and get used to them. Then go from there, or maybe you won't want or need to go anywhere.

I bought some 19s made in 1976 several weeks ago and I ain't a'gonna do a damned thing to them but use them.

For the time being anyway. ;-)

John
12-26-2006, 04:57 PM
You gotta remember that when you ask advice on a forum like this you'll be talking to some people who can never leave well enough alone and who tend to invent problems where none exist.

The best advice you got here was to listen to the speakers; use them and get used to them. Then go from there, or maybe you won't want or need to go anywhere.

:cheers:
I could of not said it any better than that Tom.:applaud:

spwal
01-07-2007, 08:23 PM
Hi,

How come the shi shi capacitors are so much more expensive than the stuff at parts express? Also, I cant seem to find these values in, say, a auricap.

Can someone tell me which caps would be the most critical on the 19 xover?

Even better can someone link me to a place that sells these values in designer caps?

I am just curious... i want to see just how prohibitive the cost is.

Thanks!

Paul C.
01-07-2007, 08:30 PM
Hi,

How come the shi shi capacitors are so much more expensive than the stuff at parts express? Also, I cant seem to find these values in, say, a auricap.

Can someone tell me which caps would be the most critical on the 19 xover?

Even better can someone link me to a place that sells these values in designer caps?

I am just curious... i want to see just how prohibitive the cost is.

Thanks!

The parts list I gave earlier is as "designer" as I get. The part numbers given are from Parts Express. www.partsexpress.com (http://www.partsexpress.com)

Enter the part numbers in the search box.

Paul C.
01-08-2007, 09:00 AM
As per your request,

This is what I would put in there if they were mine (Parts Express numbers)

2 ea 027-348 22uF-100V NON-POLARIZED CAPACITOR .. (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-348&scqty=2)$0.75 $1.50
2 ea 027-426 DAYTON DMPC-8.2 8.2uF-250V POLYPROPYLEN .. (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-426&scqty=2)$2.75 $5.50
2 ea 027-578 SOLEN 16.0uF-400VDC POLYPROPYLENE CAPAC .. (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-578&scqty=2)$6.00 $12.00
2 ea 027-427 DAYTON DMPC-6.2 6.2uF-250V POLYPROPYLEN .. (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-427&scqty=2)$2.15 $4.30

Total $23.30 for both speakers.

FYI, the Dayton caps from PE are Bennics and are good caps. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a NP electolytic for C3, and nothing audible to be gained by using a poly there, but if you must:

2 ea 027-436 DAYTON DMPC-20 20uF-250V POLYPROPYLENE .. (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-436&scqty=1)$4.95 $9.90
2 ea 027-410 DAYTON DMPC-1.0 1.0uF-250V POLYPROPYLEN .. (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-410&scqty=1)$1.15 $2.30

(note-The 20 uf and 1 uf will be placed in parallel for 21 uf for C3)

2 ea 027-426 DAYTON DMPC-8.2 8.2uF-250V POLYPROPYLEN .. (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-426&scqty=2)$2.75 $5.50
2 ea 027-578 SOLEN 16.0uF-400VDC POLYPROPYLENE CAPAC .. (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-578&scqty=2)$6.00 $12.00
2 ea 027-427 DAYTON DMPC-6.2 6.2uF-250V POLYPROPYLEN .. (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-427&scqty=2)$2.15 $4.30

Total for both speakers $34.00.

For higher grade caps in the HF circuit:

2 ea 027-436 DAYTON DMPC-20 20uF-250V POLYPROPYLENE .. (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-436&scqty=1)$4.95 $9.90
2 ea 027-410 DAYTON DMPC-1.0 1.0uF-250V POLYPROPYLEN .. (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-410&scqty=1)$1.15 $2.30

(note-The 20 uf and 1 uf will be placed in parallel for 21 uf for C3)

2 ea 027-692 Auricap Met Film 8 uf $32.48 ea $64.96
2 ea 027-688 Auricap Met Film 6 uf 24.38 ea 48.76
2 ea 027-578 Solen 16 uf $6.00ea $12.00

Total $137.92

I really don't think this last list is cost effective.

You asked about Jensen PIO caps... those would be in the many hundreds of dollars.

avguytx
01-14-2007, 03:12 PM
Would you recommend updating the crossovers in my 846 Valencias?

What parts do I get?

Is it easy to do, or should I get someone to replace the stuff for me?

Thanks.

-Storm

Did anyone ever answer this post? I would be interested to know as well. I'm pretty sure my L-pads need replacing because they are intermittent even after cleaning and I'm sure I'm losing some upper end and just some sound in general. Seems like there are less components on the 846B's crossover, too. I have 2 caps and 2 coils. The coils look kind of weird...lol.

Any ideas?

Paul C.
01-16-2007, 06:38 PM
Received Sean's crossovers this afternoon. Note the little scratch on the lower knob on the right crossover at about the 9 o'clock position.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/PaulCoats/01Seans19Xovers.jpg

Here is the before:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/PaulCoats/02Seans19Xovers.jpg

Closeup of the scratch on the faceplate:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/PaulCoats/03ScratchbyKnob.jpg

A bad photo, but I touched it up with Birchwood Casey Aluminum Black. This is a chemical that chemically blackens aluminum. You can buy it in gun shops, or at www.brownells.com (http://www.brownells.com)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/PaulCoats/04ScratchTouchedUp.jpg

New L-pads in both crossovers. The one on the left is recapped with Solen caps, and I've just started on the right one:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/PaulCoats/05Recapping19s.jpg

Both sides done, and I've labeled some of the components just for some later guy.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/PaulCoats/06Recapped19s.jpg

Also, I've printed and included the schematic. Note the tube of E6000 glue in the upper left corner of the first photo. All the caps were glued in place with this slightly rubbery glue. This is to prevent the components from vibrating and leads breaking, but can be cut and the components removed if necessary. I use this glue (or the equivilent, Aleene's Platinum Bond 7800) extensively when building crossovers. It is strong enough to hold heavy inductors in place. This glue should be on every electonic tech's workbench.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/PaulCoats/E6000Glue.jpghttp://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/PaulCoats/AleenesPlatinumBond7800.jpg

Dayton has these great new binding posts (Parts Express 091-1245, 091-1246, 091-1247) in gold, bright nickle plate, or satin nickle. Just drill a hole and tap them in. Secure with a lockwasher and nut. To make it more plug and play for Sean, I've already soldered the crossover input leads to the tabs. I used 14 ga oxygen free speaker wire. These are slipped over the ends of the posts, and an additional lockwasher and nut is tightened on:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/PaulCoats/07BindingPosts.jpg

Here they are, leads for input, tweeter, and woofer soldered to the crossovers. The leads have been tagged so that Sean will know what goes where. Note the crossover on the right, that scratch is invisible.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/PaulCoats/08Seans19Finished.jpg

The crossovers are wrapped in bubblewrap and placed in a box with lots of plastic peanuts surrounding them, ready for Fed Ex to deliver.

No applause, no applause, and Sean already sent money.

Hillman
01-16-2007, 07:03 PM
They look great Paul. Good Job!!

spwal
01-16-2007, 07:53 PM
im utterly speechless. :o:

Charlie4350
01-16-2007, 11:45 PM
Talk about a happy ending.

Storm
01-17-2007, 01:13 AM
I would like to "Update" my 846U crossovers.

Can anyone help me?

Where do I start? What do I do?

Thanks.

-Storm.

Gary L
01-17-2007, 06:11 AM
Looks great Paul, Stacked them in there like cord wood!:D

Been trying to email but ISP is down in the send mode only!

Might have to do one of my sets the exact same way and then A+B test them against the clones you built and a completely stock pair.
The only problem with this idea is how to determine if the complete stock pair is in or out of spec. What test equipment is necessary to determine if caps are within tolerance?

Will email ya later if system gets repaired and will allow it.

Gary

spwal
01-17-2007, 08:18 AM
avguytx mentions that he saw stock inductors way off spec. Paul saw no reason to change the ones i had.

he also mentions rotating the woofers. Well, my woofers appear to be glued in (and then secured with screws). Do you think this is a major concern? I dont have any of that gummy black stuff running at all.

i will of course get back to everyone with feedback /impressions.

thanks!

sean

spwal
01-22-2007, 12:38 PM
Well,

I put in my crossovers this weekend. Paul did an amazing job, please take a look at his work again in this thread, its really well done.

All I can say is that i cannot believe i have this pair of speakers in my bedroom! They are simply wonderful... silky smooth from top to bottom, finesse like i never thought was possible except from those insanely priced speakers at the super hifi store. They have unbelievable presence, very nice.

I think that the old capicitors were showing their age, and Paul brought everything back into line. Hookup wire and binding posts are also all new so these speakers are simply sounding their best. They sound correct, and I can play with the dials without worrry now since the L-pads are brand new too and exact matches to the old ones!

At first i was taken a little aback by the solens, thought things sounded a little sterile, clinical. That is probably because i was listening exlusively to my Heresys over the last week, and i just needed to adjust. I could always put a few more expensive capacitors in critical areas, but honestly, i dont see how it can get much better than this.

Thanks again for the great work paul! These are still "correct" 19s and I dont think their original character has been too tampered with, they can just shine through better than new now. I still have all the original parts as well.

This has been a great month. Thanks to all the people in this forum for making this project a success. Pictures to follow as soon as I charge my camera batteries.