D130

[Thom]

Does anybody believe a D130 belongs in a living room. If so what frequencies would you limit it to? Would you roll off the signal on the bottom or just let that happen. It's not a necessity. I've probably got plenty of drivers and if I'm missing something it isn't something the D130 can replace. I used to be in love with them, haven't heard them in years and I'm wondering if they scream their name to loud or if I'd still really love them. I'm thinking that if I put them over LE15 A's and H's I wouldn't have to give them much room. I was thinking of stuffing their box real good and not really closing the back, the frequencies where cancellation is a worry will belong to someone else, and they should be able to carry up to where 2435's are happy but the fact that nobody uses them hasn't totally escaped me. Just looking for a viewpoint. "You're crazy" isn't helpful unless you follow through with the rest of it. Half a lifetime ago I spent countless hours listening to an S8R system against a D130 175DLH and 075 in a C34 and the S8r went lower, there is no doubt. but above that the C34's seamed alive. So I'm thinking if you added a bottom end who knows? but that was a long time ago, and thats why I'm asking. There is no room for two C55's and a 61 inch TV. Thank you.

[Zilch]

D130 wants 4.6 cuft tuned to 44 Hz for "Extended Bass" alignment. F3 is 92 Hz. Power handling is poor; you're out of cone excursion at 10 W.

For "High Fidelity" alignment, it's 2.3 cuft @ 57 Hz for an 89.5 Hz F3. That's good for more like 20 W.

Closed box, 2 cuft, the F3 is 135 Hz, 10 W max.

BB6P is using 0.762 mm as Xmax. I've questioned that before (E130 is 2.54 mm,) but if it's correct, use the HF alignment, roll it off below 90 Hz, and add a sub....

[Thom]

It seams to me that I've heard you say (read) that it was rolling off by 150. I often read posts by people who claim it as their favorite speaker and that's my memory but memory is a funny thing. My carpentry skills suck I'm much more at ease with meter, wrench, soldering iron etc. so I'm questioning. Is a D130 accurate within a certain range or is it great on an electric guitar because it puts the instrument in the room. I'm aware that it likes a big box ,but if every thing below say 200 Hz goes somewhere else, then does it still need the big box? Or could you even run it open baffle if your not giving it the notes that would normally give you cancellation problems. I probably know just enough to not have a good excuse to get into the trouble that I probably will. Oh, this is the one I'll get excommunicated for, if you put a 2245 surround on a 2240 and don't play it hard enough that having a 3/4 inch coil instead of a 1 inch coil causes a problem should it behave somewhat like a 2245?

I'm afraid I don't know what BB6P is but it makes sense that a D130 would have much less x max as it is a "HiFi" speaker and an E130 is an electric guitar speaker. Unfortunately I don't have a D130 that I bought new so it's not possible to know what I have for sure. How much like a D130 does a K145 sound (in the range where they both can play) are they tight and light like a D130 or by making it a base speaker did they loose that? Where do they start to roll off. I had a base player tell me that unless he really hit it hard he liked the 140 much better ( for playing bass ) he said he had to really get on it for the 145 to come alive. I notice that the cone is very light and the suspension seams tight. You can't really get this from a book. Someone has to have heard them. I have one brand new K145 so I guess if I went for the D130 I could always try it in there. Whatever help is deeply appreciated.

[Zilch]

My carpentry skills suck I'm much more at ease with meter, wrench, soldering iron etc. so I'm questioning.Ultimately, you're gonna have to confront that and DO something, Thom. The lumber yard will cut the panels for you.

Build the "High Fidelity" box above; who gives a crap what it looks like for now? See what it sounds like. Roll it off at 250 Hz, 100 Hz, 80 Hz, whatever....

[boputnam]

...if you put a 2245 surround on a 2240 and don't play it hard enough that having a 3/4 inch coil instead of a 1 inch coil causes a problem should it behave somewhat like a 2245?You are all over the map, pard'...

What is it you are trying to do? Maybe list the drivers you wish to use, get this moved to DIY and there get help in your project.

Why do you want a 2240 to "behave like" a 2245? The 2240 has a pleated surround; the 2245 has a foam surround - they are very different. Is this some sort of quiz...?

[Zilch]

It seams to me that I've heard you say (read) that it was rolling off by 150.It depends upon the alignment, of course. I've provided you with F3 for each of those above.


I'm afraid I don't know what BB6P is but it makes sense that a D130 would have much less x max as it is a "HiFi" speaker and an E130 is an electric guitar speaker.BB6P is Bass Box 6 Pro, a box design program which has T/S parameters in its database.

The extended range D130 ultimately became the flagship guitar driver in the "D" series musical instrument line. Once high-power solid state amps came out, we got all stupid and blew them up routinely:

http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/jbl/d130.htm

[Thom]

Where I started was feasibility /desirability of using D130 for upper bass/ lower mid. Considering using it from about 200 to wherever the 2435 does the job better. Also wondering if it could be used open baffle as long as it's being cut off that high. The other stuff can be looked at later. I've got a couple LE15A and a couple LE15H and some 18inch. don't need to get into what to do with them, just don't need to take the D130 where it never really wanted to go anyway, also don't want to take up more room with it than I need to. Wanted feedback on it sonically from people familiar with it. Trying to decide whether it plays the music or announces itself. It's been a long time since I kicked back and listened to one. I'd be disappointed if when I was through and put tunes on the reaction was "listen to that D130" as opposed to whatever was playing.

The carpentry thing was just that making boxes isn't second nature to me so I'd like not to make too many that I don't use.

[speakerdave]

Where I started was feasibility /desirability of using D130 for upper bass/ lower mid. Considering using it from about 200 to wherever the 2435 does the job better. Also wondering if it could be used open baffle as long as it's being cut off that high. The other stuff can be looked at later. I've got a couple LE15A and a couple LE15H and some 18inch. don't need to get into what to do with them, just don't need to take the D130 where it never really wanted to go anyway, also don't want to take up more room with it than I need to. Wanted feedback on it sonically from people familiar with it. Trying to decide whether it plays the music or announces itself. It's been a long time since I kicked back and listened to one. I'd be disappointed if when I was through and put tunes on the reaction was "listen to that D130" as opposed to whatever was playing.

The carpentry thing was just that making boxes isn't second nature to me so I'd like not to make too many that I don't use.

Standard operating procedure is to begin with test bed boxes, which can be crude but should be substantial, to answer just such questions, which no one else can really answer for you.

That having been said, the D130 was my introduction to JBL sound. I forgave it its shortcomings for the sake of its good qualities, both of which were immediately apparent. Even then, however, it was obvious it was not a long-term solution for hi fi.

There seems to be an assumption in your posts here that you are limited to using drivers you have on hand. If that is a correct reading, I would like to suggest that you could probably buy a pair of 2202H for the price you could get for the D130's, if factory kits were used for the recones.

JBL never used the D130 as an upper bass driver in a 3- or 4-way system, and they expended expensive engineering talent to develop the drivers they did use. To go against that thinking to use a driver because you have it on hand is probably a losing proposition.

JBL did use the D130's little brother, the 12" D131, in the "Texas bookshelf" prototype (with a pair of LE15A's on each side) for the 4350. But they went on to develop the 2202 on the same frame, as well as a 15" that was more effective in the low bass than is the LE15A.

Also, Drew Daniels used a version of the 130A from 80 to 300 Hz in his 5-way system. From that you can see that even over that narrow band he sought flatter response than the D130 will give you.

If I were after quick and punchy mid-upper bass I would follow either of those examples.

Finally, to go up to a frequency where the 2435 will be effective, a 12" or 10" driver would be better.

David

[spkrman57]

I had E-140's reconed to E-130's with paper dust cap.

The enclosures I'm using are 2.5 cu ft tuned to 60hz.

They start around 120hz and response to 3.6khz, although not sure how much of that upper response is beaming though!

FYI: port is round 4" hole in back of cabinet same thickness as the .75" cabinet board.

I use a 18" sub up to approx 120hz for smooth integration.

Hope this helps!

Ron

[Thom]

Thank you, that's why I asked. Most of my experience with JBL until the last few years was D130 but mostly folded horn and I'm not that ambitious. Never really understood the reason for the 131, seems to need as much box as the 130. I'm not stuck with using what I have on hand, lord knows I've bought enough drivers that I will never use and probably never sell just had to have. I'm just familiar with the D130 and not with much else. Always thought it brought out detail, at least the thin paper narrow gap ones. Following posts here sort of lead me away from that, but now and then there is a post that reminds me of how I remember it, but I also remember that in a C37 the bottom was mushy and in anything smaller it was constrained. Couldn't remember if it was accurate or impressive in its primary range. And I'm aware that in my experience no one has used it like I'm considering. I remember LE15 being hard to match horns to o(yes I'm aware of all the systems that do it, sort of) because they are so much more dynamic than it is and thought this might be a way to do it. What woofers are you talking about? I have 135A and LE14 but neither will play seriously loud. I'm fascinated by the K/E 145 I have a K and frames for two E's but I'm under the impression that without a horn you cant get real low with it. As well as the 2435's that I don't have horns for yet I've got 800 and 500 altecs and a pair of large EV horns and drivers. Obviously one would never use all that I'm just saying I don't have to get to 1K or so with a cone I just thought a cone might do it better. You should see me shop for a bicycle or a car.

E130 is probably much like a D130F only a little more forward because of the stronger magnet. You should be able to hear a difference in detail and such, the D130 being the winner but I'm not sure if I'd be able to tell them apart or not.

[speakerdave]

Never really understood the reason for the 131, seems to need as much box as the 130.

It's just cosmically lively.


What woofers are you talking about? I have 135A . . . .
Yes, the 135 and 136, 2230 and 2231, and later the 2235. Right, they give up about 5-6 dB to the D130.


I'm fascinated by the K/E 145 I have a K and frames for two E's but I'm under the impression that without a horn you cant get real low with it.

That's right, but it is unique in JBL's proline in having an underhung voice coil and is said to be very good. Rob uses e145's as bass drivers above the LE14 for subwoofer. He biamps, so the efficiency imbalance is not an issue at moderate home levels.

David

[Thom]

Has anybody out there had a D130, preferably not in musical instrument use and had it re-coned with an E kit. It should be audibly different. Is it?
Also there are so many aftermarket D130 kits out there and the factory only has E kits (correct me if I'm wrong) are there any aftermarket kits that are closer to the original than the E is?

[Baron030]

Hi Thom
This last spring I had Orange County Speakers do a complete overhaul of my old D-130s.
I had them recharge the alnico magnets, and re-cone the baskets with JBL E130 factory kits.
After installing the overhauled D/E-130s back into my old DIY enclosures, I noticed that the bass roll off to be a lot greater then with the original D-130 cones.
My enclosures were built in 1973 and have a net internal volume of 4.3cuft, a single 5" x 7" port, with a port duct length of 4.25". And surprisingly, this combination comes in fairly close to an "Extended Bass" alignment. This explains way I found this 030 system a complete joy to lesson to the last 30+ years. (See my advar for a picture.)
But, with the E-130 re-cones, I found this near "Extended Bass" alignment to be totally unacceptable. It's just way too weak in the bass department.
As an experiment to correct this problem, I removed the port ducts. This changed the port duct length to ¾", and it raised the enclosure tuning to about 62 Hz. With the higher port tuning, I noticed that the bass sounded a lot better. A lot less mid-bass roll off and a punchier bass sound overall. While, the bass is not as good as the original D-130 cones, the D/E-130s are still very pleasant!
If you are going to try using some E130s, then I would recommend going with the slightly higher "High Fidelity" alignment instead of "Extended Bass" alignment. It should give you a better overall sound.
Oh, I and really do believe that D130s belong in a living room. :)
Baron030

[Thom]

Is this the only difference you noticed? The clarity and detail are still as good as original?

[spkrman57]

My 2.5 cu ft cab tuned to 60 hz was arrived at after conferring with a knowledgeable forum member here.

I informed him I wanted the flattest response, and LF response was not critical as I had the 2242 subs to fill in the bottom.

What Baron030 says is true, there is not much response below 120hz with E130(paper dustcap). What does sound great is the upper midbass and midrange.

It is the most dynamic driver I 've heard without being horn-loaded!

It works for me, YMMV!

Regards, Ron

[Baron030]

Is this the only difference you noticed? The clarity and detail are still as good as original?


Hi Thom
After retuning the ports and giving the bass tone control on the pre-amp a little boost of about a db or two.
My old 030 system sounds just as good as it ever did.
So, the port tuning and very slight drop in very low end bass is the only difference. The clarity and detail are very much there.
As a matter of fact, I think the midrange presence is even better then before. They sound much cleaner and flatter.

Baron030 :)

[Robh3606]

Hello Thom

If you want to get an idea of the LF extension of your drivers on hand run them in WinISD. They will be preloaded in the program all you have to do is select the driver and adjust for box size and tuning frequency to see how the diferent box sizes effects the LF response. The Le-14 in 3.5-4 cubic ft will get you low in a manageable volume. Any of the higher efficiency woofers like the Le-15 is going to need a much bigger box. If you can get your hands on the Flair box size and tuning you can use the 135's. There are no T/S for the 135's so you need a JBL box to give you a "good box" to drop the driver in. I think the original 4340 will also work and Rick may be able to give you volume and tuning/port diameter and length.

http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=winisd

Rob:)

[pangea]

Hi, I hope I'm not intruding here, by asking for your opinion and help.

I've got a single D130F lying around on a shelf, which is re-coned with a 2231 cone, not 100% sure though, if it's a factory cone.

I thought I might put it to use in a 148 L (internal volume) box, which I've also got, by making it into a bandpass box, lets say 90/40 L (W44,5 cm x L 85 cm x D 39 cm)

I was thinking of tuning the front chamber to 40 Hz, but after reading this thread, I'm no longer sure that's a good idea.

Perhaps someone can help me out with suggestions and perhaps help me making a suitable slit port, angled or curved.

Many thanks anyhow in advance for any advice on making me a sub woofer for home use.

Happy new year to all of you:cheers:

/Roland

[Thom]

I realise that this forum is factory cone biased and maybe it should be but since D kits are long gone are the factory E kits as close to original D kits as can presently be had? And since you are taking it up into the mids why the paper dome and not the aluminum and are the differences between the D & E kits something a 1/3 octave would take care of. (I guess that mean freq rsp as opposed to something else)

[edgewound]

Hi, I hope I'm not intruding here, by asking for your opinion and help.

I've got a single D130F lying around on a shelf, which is re-coned with a 2231 cone, not 100% sure though, if it's a factory cone.

I thought I might put it to use in a 148 L (internal volume) box, which I've also got, by making it into a bandpass box, lets say 90/40 L (W44,5 cm x L 85 cm x D 39 cm)

I was thinking of tuning the front chamber to 40 Hz, but after reading this thread, I'm no longer sure that's a good idea.

Perhaps someone can help me out with suggestions and perhaps help me making a suitable slit port, angled or curved.

Many thanks anyhow in advance for any advice on making me a sub woofer for home use.

Happy new year to all of you:cheers:

/Roland

Roland,

Don't let this thread discourage you from doing your project.

What you have with your D130F reconed with a 2231 is....viola' a 2231A, with an alnico motor.

These fall into the interchangeability arena.

Have fun with it.

[Thom]

I know that I'm probably 2/3 senile or have halfhymers or something but I'd swear there was another interesting post here earlier.

[Thom]

Something must have just have worn off. I'm awake.
I don't think I ever did see a reply about a D130 just mounted on a board. It would seem that if the board were wide enough for the lowest frequencies reproduced it would be fine. I used to have LE5's mounted that way and they worked. I wish to use them with 2245's and 2435's.
I wonder if I sound like I'm knowledgeable to those who aren't. I can guess what I sound like to those who are. I did a search. How surprised I was to find this was the only thread I found.
Oh, FYI I had a 130 that was scraping. It didn't when I put it away. (D not E) I did some fooling around and found that by pressing one direction (on the cone) it got better and another direction made it worse. I tried hitting a hammer on a block of wood against the pot one direction. No go. Then I banged the frame outside edge against a 4x4 (while the owner of the 4x4 wasn't, no not that kind of 4x4) on the ground and eureka it worked. Hope it stays fixed as it looks like new. I'm thinking (danger) that it probably got banged or dropped in transit.
Does anybody have a free air response for a D130? I hope that's not the dumbest question I've ever asked but probably not as that is quite a challenge.

Thank you

[Zilch]

Google "Open Baffle" and/or "Dipole Loudspeaker."

[Thom]

Google "Open Baffle" and/or "Dipole Loudspeaker."

Yep. I'm not sure what the advantages are supposed to be besides less work less trees but to the best of my knowledge most of the disadvantages occur somewhere south of the 200hz I intend to cross at. I always spend a lot of time undoing or redoing hair brain ideas or as I like to put it novel research that if some one has a good reason not to do it ("no one does that" doesn't qualify) I'd like to hear it now rather than as I'm taking things apart.

[Harvey Gerst]

Does anybody have a free air response for a D130? I hope that's not the dumbest question I've ever asked but probably not as that is quite a challenge.

Thank you
When new, the D130's left the factory with a free air resonance in the 42 - 45 Hz range. After they'd been played for a while, I've seen them drop as low as 29 Hz.

[Baron030]

When new, the D130's left the factory with a free air resonance in the 42 - 45 Hz range. After they'd been played for a while, I've seen them drop as low as 29 Hz.
__________________
Harvey "Hifi" Gerst
("Hifi" was my nickname at JBL.)


Wow, Very interesting! That sure explains a lot to me.
Back in 1973, I built some enclosures for a 030 system and I tuned the ports for 45Hz.
Then, after a few months of loud playing, I had to add some ducts to the ports and essentially re-tune the enclosures to a low frequency, otherwise, they didn't sound right.
It was a real mystery to me as to what was going on at the time. :blink:
Now after all these years, I finally know to answer.
Thanks, Harvey. :applaud:

By the way, does this free air resonance drop ever occur in other driver as well?

Baron030 :)

[Harvey Gerst]

Wow, Very interesting! That sure explains a lot to me.
Back in 1973, I built some enclosures for a 030 system and I tuned the ports for 45Hz.
Then, after a few months of loud playing, I had to add some ducts to the ports and essentially re-tune the enclosures to a low frequency, otherwise, they didn't sound right.
It was a real mystery to me as to what was going on at the time. :blink:
Now after all these years, I finally know to answer.
Thanks, Harvey. :applaud:

By the way, does this free air resonance drop ever occur in other driver as well?

Baron030 :)
It's pretty common in speakers with paper surrounds, less so with rubber surrounds, I think.

[Thom]

The grateful Dead are playing at my house. I've been listening to L100's and Flair45's and same with 400hv Ev horns on top and with ess tweeters and 511's get the picture but tonite I've got one side playing 2245 on bottom D130 next running open baffle and 2235 on top. Active crossover each with it's own amp. How's that for being redundant again. Only one side Monaural and What a difference. Now to figure out what to do with all this other stuff. Flares are large for the bedroom. Maybe the computer. just had to post. It's dead ugly but I'll put up a picture as soon as the wife comes back with the camera. No it wasn't her or the speakers, then I'd know why she was gone. There wouldn't be any hesitation there. Regrets, maybe but hesitation, no way. I think the next addition will be a garage conversion. These need a bigger room. They're better here than smaller speakers but in a bigger room wow.

[Zilch]

Generally speaking, garage conversions are illegal, but you can check with the Building Department to be certain with respect to your specific situation.

You must provide the requisite off-street parking requirements per your Zoning Ordinance, and you are not permitted to increase non-conformity if you don't meet them presently. You must keep your garage open and accessible for the purpose of parking an automobile at all times.

Front-yard parking is only permitted with a parking exception or variance, and I don't believe not having enough room to optimally listen to your JBL speakers qualifies as a "hardship" for making the necessary findings under the law.

No, you may not have another curb cut.... :p

[Thom]

Who's listening. For just a minute I was carried back to when if the band down the street got two loud I'd crank up the stereo until they surrendered. Long ago and far away.

[Maron Horonzakz]

Unbelieveable !!!!!:bs:

[Zilch]

Unbelieveable !!!!!:bs:Which: open baffles or garage conversions? :D

[Maron Horonzakz]

Curb conversions...a couple of rusted trucks..tires for flower gardens...chicken bones and empty kentucky fried box,s on the lawn. ,,Nice.:applaud:

[clubman]

Couldnt help but read this thread.....I run a pair of D130s in my living room. They are in a fairly large box with a 175DLH and N1200 Xovers. Just as they are I find them to be just fine in the low end. There is a large rectangle port cut in the bafle board. I do have a powered sub though that I turn on from time to time. Mostly for movies though. I never have to turn my volume knob over half way. They really come to life. And anyting over half way is just insane. Powering them with a Pioneer ELITE VSX-09TX

[BMWCCA]

Couldnt help but read this thread.....I run a pair of D130s in my living room. They are in a fairly large box with a 175DLH and N1200 Xovers. Just as they are I find them to be just fine in the low end. There is a large rectangle port cut in the bafle board. I do have a powered sub though that I turn on from time to time. Mostly for movies though. I never have to turn my volume knob over half way. They really come to life. And anyting over half way is just insane. Powering them with a Pioneer ELITE VSX-09TXNot questioning you knowing what you've got but are they D130s or 130As? I've actually never heard the D130 with the 175DLH but I've considered adding the 175 to my 030 and have about 2/3 of the stuff to do it now. Missing on 175DLH at this point.

[clubman]

They are for sure D130's ive looked. And im not sure if the horn is the LE175DLH or just 175DLH if there is a differance. Im sure that DLH was driver horn lens...anywho they are the "patato mashers"

[edgewound]

They are for sure D130's ive looked. And im not sure if the horn is the LE175DLH or just 175DLH if there is a differance. Im sure that DLH was driver horn lens...anywho they are the "patato mashers"

Naw...you're right. The LE175 refers to just the driver alone.

When in combo with the small "potato masher" horn-lens....then it's called the 175DLH.

[Thom]

Cutting them off at 200hz, is there any plus or minus to open baffle?

[edgewound]

Cutting them off at 200hz, is there any plus or minus to open baffle?

Sounds great Thom....go for it. That way...it's just one huge midrange driver.

[Zilch]

They are for sure D130's ive looked.Aluminum or black paper dome?

[clubman]

Aluminum or black paper dome?


Aluminum, Trust me they are D130s. Still have factory cone stamps on the back. 130202 or something like that. 16ohm. I hope I never fry a coil...I think they are inposible to recone due to the VC gap size.

[clubman]

http://a127.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/112/l_bbaa52ff30860e3983b40b9337d76aee.jpg

The horn on top was just for testing perpose only.

[Zilch]

Ooooo, NICE!

And sexy legs, too.... :thmbsup:

[clubman]

Thanks..not original JBL cabs but they work. I found the legs on ebay and thought it added to the retro look. What they lack in low end they make up for in conversation peice. People are like....damn what are those? Now I just need to find some vintage cloth for the fronts. They are not kid friendly how they are now......ohh shinny...touch poke poke:banghead: I want to find maybe a light blonde fabric or bone color that you can still make out the domes.