*Tube vs Transistor?*

[Loud & Clear]

:) I am running a pair of Klipsch bottom ends, and JBL L-300's, with a BGW 500D Running the bottoms, and an SAE 2200 running the tops. I have a decent Heathkit amp model # AA-151 I could run the L300's with. I would have to pic up a decent tube amp for my bottoms. My Question is: Would the sound be any better? I know when the theater here in town got rid of there WE tube amps, and switched to transistor. The sound went south. Of Course they went to Peavey solid state amps :barf: I would like to here some oppinions. I'm in the home audio seen now. It's a little different than the pro-sound I am used to... Many Thanks :)

[HipoFutura]

My vote is to keep with SS amps for the low freqs. I use tubes for the mid's and SS for the low's & hi's. I find the hi power SS amp has more punch and can draw power more quickly than tubes. I love tube amps, but they just can't pound as hard as a big SS amp. Don

[Loud & Clear]

My vote is to keep with SS amps for the low freqs. I use tubes for the mid's and SS for the low's & hi's. I find the hi power SS amp has more punch and can draw power more quickly than tubes. I love tube amps, but they just can't pound as hard as a big SS amp. DonHello Don, That has been my experience. However, it has been so long ago, I had fogotten. Thanks, Tom :)

[Rolf]

My vote is to keep with SS amps for the low freqs. I use tubes for the mid's and SS for the low's & hi's. I find the hi power SS amp has more punch and can draw power more quickly than tubes. I love tube amps, but they just can't pound as hard as a big SS amp. Don

I go with you regarding this, but I have found out that SS amps with Mosfets do everything better than tubes.

[Loud & Clear]

I go with you regarding this, but I have found out that SS amps with Mosfets do everything better than tubes.I know from working on car audio amps. The mosfet amps all sounded the best. Most all the amps had mosfet switching power supplys, but there were only a few that were mosfet outs. The rest were bi-polar. Rockford Fosgate was an all mosfet amp. Of course they are really Hafler amps... In a car audio version... :)

[Titanium Dome]

I go with you regarding this, but I have found out that SS amps with Mosfets do everything better than tubes.

I'm with Rolf on this.

Virtually all my tube amp listening is old-school, so no doubt some of the newer tube units offer a much different experience. Whether it's better or not is both technical and subjective of course.

We tend to like what we like, and we keep going back to it unless jarred out of our groove. I settled into the MOSFET groove in the 90s when I got the Soundcraftsmen A200 with my JBL L7s. I totally preferred it to the Class A, AB, and H+ stuff I had used until then.

[Titanium Dome]

I know from working on car audio amps. The mosfet amps all sounded the best. Most all the amps had mosfet switching power supplys, but there were only a few that were mosfet outs. The rest were bi-polar. Rockford Fosgate was an all mosfet amp. Of course they are really Hafler amps... In a car audio version... :)

Hellya, you're right about that. Some of the latest Haflers (like my Fosgate Audionics branded Haflers, the FAA100.5) also had JFETs in the front end with the MOSFETS at the output. Very, very nice.

[jblnut]

I can't tell you how many good years I wasted thinking that was true. That'll teach me to think twice about believing what someone else can or cannot hear with their ears.

Short story..

For the past few years I've been using large Yamaha SS Pro amps with my rig. I've been very happy with their sound and saw no need to mess with them. A little over a year ago Giskard created some bi-amp capable xovers for my 250Ti's which then allowed me to experiment with different amps on the lows and highs. All I had were the Yamahas so that's what I used. I never felt that the system maintained the proper balance of high frequency info as the volume changed. Make it sound right for quiet listening and then it was too bright and "edgy"" when loud. Adjust it for loud listening and it was dull when the volume went back down. I lived with it and still enjoyed it very much.

When one of the amps started having trouble a few months ago, a friend let me borrow his home-brew Dynaco ST-70 tube amp. I put it on the high end of the 250's and....well....

The difference was immediately noticeable to both me and my wife (who helps to make sure changes really are for the better). The sound was so much smoother and more life-like. Imaging was vastly improved to the point where it's a lot like someone is singing 8ft in front of you. And it just kept sounding better with more volume.

So, I searched the 'bay and got lucky almost immediately. A fellow audiophile with a Mac bug was selling his own hot-rodded Dynaco MKIII mono blocks. They had every modification out of the Curcio catalog and were in perfect shape. I've had a lot of people over since the change and every single one has commented on the positive change.

So for me anyway - tubes made one hell of a difference.
I'm hooked !


jblnut

[spkrman57]

I like my Soundcraftsman PM860 amp with MOSFET outputs. 300 wpc @ 4 ohms and sounds great.:D

I like to run my horns with tubes though, mostly single ended amps which are mostly less than 10 wpc.;)

Ron

[Loud & Clear]

I can't tell you how many good years I wasted thinking that was true. That'll teach me to think twice about believing what someone else can or cannot hear with their ears.

Short story..

For the past few years I've been using large Yamaha SS Pro amps with my rig. I've been very happy with their sound and saw no need to mess with them. A little over a year ago Giskard created some bi-amp capable xovers for my 250Ti's which then allowed me to experiment with different amps on the lows and highs. All I had were the Yamahas so that's what I used. I never felt that the system maintained the proper balance of high frequency info as the volume changed. Make it sound right for quiet listening and then it was too bright and "edgy"" when loud. Adjust it for loud listening and it was dull when the volume went back down. I lived with it and still enjoyed it very much.

When one of the amps started having trouble a few months ago, a friend let me borrow his home-brew Dynaco ST-70 tube amp. I put it on the high end of the 250's and....well....

The difference was immediately noticeable to both me and my wife (who helps to make sure changes really are for the better). The sound was so much smoother and more life-like. Imaging was vastly improved to the point where it's a lot like someone is singing 8ft in front of you. And it just kept sounding better with more volume.

So, I searched the 'bay and got lucky almost immediately. A fellow audiophile with a Mac bug was selling his own hot-rodded Dynaco MKIII mono blocks. They had every modification out of the Curcio catalog and were in perfect shape. I've had a lot of people over since the change and every single one has commented on the positive change.

So for me anyway - tubes made one hell of a difference.
I'm hooked !


jblnutI've not tried the newer tubes, but I should, and when I can afford it I will. If something sounds better, I'm all over it. Experimenting, that's all part of the fun of the Audio Experience. :applaud:

[HipoFutura]

JBLNut, are you the one who picked up that pair of Curcio MKIIIs a few months ago on ebay? I was stunned at the low sell price! These amps sound as nice as the new or old $3K+ tubes amps that are now so popular.

I can't think of any other tube amp I'd trade mine for! Curcio has turned the old Dynaco mono-blocks into something that has to be heard to be believed.

Don

(Don't mean to hijack the thread)

[jblnut]

I've not tried the newer tubes, but I should, and when I can afford it I will. If something sounds better, I'm all over it. Experimenting, that's all part of the fun of the Audio Experience. :applaud:


That's funny..."newer"...

These amps were produced in the late 60's and yet many of us are just discovering them now.

:)

jblnut

[jblnut]

My buddy with the ST70 was stunned (and maybe envious) as well. Just the *parts* for the Curcio mods alone cost more than I paid for the pair. That doesn't include the mint-condition donor amps or the considerable labor involved in rewiring two of them.
The seller had fallen in love with a newer Mac tube amp and basically dumped them cheap. And he absolutely bomb-proofed the packing.

It's probably the single greatest change/mod I've done to my system yet. Their sound is so involving it's almost intoxicating. You just want to keep listening, and turning it up :applaud: .


jblnut


JBLNut, are you the one who picked up that pair of Curcio MKIIIs a few months ago on ebay? I was stunned at the low sell price! These amps sound as nice as the new or old $3K+ tubes amps that are now so popular.

I can't think of any other tube amp I'd trade mine for! Curcio has turned the old Dynaco mono-blocks into something that has to be heard to be believed.

Don

(Don't mean to hijack the thread)

[SUPERBEE]

I would have to pic up a decent tube amp for my bottoms.


If I would have known thats all it would take!

[HipoFutura]

You got a very rare deal!! I spend $3K to build mine. I almost bid on yours just to have as backups. I kept watching the auction waiting for the price to skyrocket. It was with great restraint that I didn't jump in as the auction closed! In factory form the MKIII is quite a weak sounding amp. However, Curcio turns those transformers into something remarkable. Don

[Loud & Clear]

I am a Car Audio Electronics Tech, well, at least I was. Then along came the time for kidney transplant #2. I have also fixed just about everything else, including a paint shaker circuit board for the local Ace Hardware, and a special medical device brought in by a Highway Patrol trooper, (for his daughter's serious asthma) "I took that one real serious", etc. I've got repair tickets stacked to the cieling. With a 98% success rate. However, I came into the game, long after the tube stuff, and I never saw any of it. However, An associate of mine did, and he is a magician on tube equipment. I may have to talk with him. He was always talking about the industial Western Electric amps they used in theaters. I wish I could find a good tube amp to borrow around here. I'm interested... :)

[Thom]

The dynacos aren't just any old amp. People with their dynacos although more solid state than tube are one of the things that discouraged Mac from continuing their clinics, is my understanding. There were always more dynaco owners than Mac and the things tested extremely well. (if you have inside information and this didn't play into the decision don't flame me, I don't claim inside information, just the gossip of the day.

I'm not staking out a position here but I keep hearing the tube vs transistor thing treated on this forum as though it's a done deal. No question about it tubes are superior I thought it was a subjective thing. Varied amp to amp and listener to listener. Educate me. I don't object to it being settled for an individual even if not for everybody I guess I should just leave it at educate me. I don't have a position staked out and maybe general opinion is that tubes are better I just wasn't aware of it. They do have weaknesses I'm aware of but so do solid state devices I suppose.

[moldyoldy]

....snip....I'm not staking out a position here but I keep hearing the tube vs transistor thing treated on this forum as though it's a done deal....snip....

For most of us, it IS a done deal. The argument has raged since silicon hit the streets, and the concensus among the rational declared it a subjective choice. For many, it's ingrained as deep as their politics, and no amount of argument or objective data will change that. Discussion soon turns nasty and flames fly, and no one gets any good from it.

Personally, I use both, settling on whatever gives the best results in the application. There are sytems that are night and day with different amps, and there's no consistent winner, merely an application for each.

[Thom]

I once owned a 2105. Does anyone still use transformers with transistors or was Mac just afraid that their superior transformers was what had separated them from the pack and felt disadvantaged without them? I seem to remember hearing bragging about damping factor and how much better some speakers sounded with lots of it. I guess that's what you mean about depending on the application.