LE8T-2 (Aquarius IV) recone problem [Archive]

Luke_A_P

12-14-2003, 06:43 AM

I'm new to the forum so first I'll say hello to you all and thank you in advance for any help you can give me.

Ok, on to this little problem I have:

I am restoring a pair of JBL Aquarius IV speakers for a friend. When I opened up the speakers I was not surprised to find that the surrounds had decayed but I was surpised to find two bass cones that looked rather different to each other.

The bass units are LE8T-2 and the chassis on each one appears to be the same but the cones are different.

It seems that at some point one of the bass units has been reconed. It does not have the white coating on the front of the cone (it is just plain paper). But it does seem to have the same Aluminium dustcap and there seems to be quite a bit of glue around the edge of the dustcap. My first guess was that some how just the cone was replaced leaving the dust cap and motor system in place.

However after checking further I found that the reconed unit is a 4ohm unit! (<3ohms dc resistance).

I have a bit of a dilema here, my friend is interested in keeping these as a working example of a rather esoteric speaker, i.e. he wants to keep them in the original cabinets. However from what I understand it is going to be very difficult to make the Aquarius IV perform as it should without exactly the right drive unit so I am not sure quite what to do.

Is there any chance of getting a genuine equivelent to the LE8T-2 cone? Most people seem to assume it is the same as an LE8T which is not true of course. Can any of you suggest some kind of solution for this problem.

Thanks,

Luke

4313B

12-14-2003, 07:17 AM

The LE8T-2 takes the C8R2115 cone kit which has no aquaplas and has an aluminum center dome. DCR should be 5.1 to 5.9 ohms. The C8R2115 cone kit has been discontinued. It appears JBL might have a few left in stock. MSRP is $207 each.

Dave G

12-14-2003, 11:13 AM

Hello Luke_A_P

I would be very interested in finding out if you get any sort of useful response from UK dealer on this. I would urge extreme caution before handing these drivers over to any speaker repair 'specialists' Let me know if Harman UK repair takes these on as it means I still have service for some of my orange labeled animals!

Don't discount the:smthsail: option if you have problems.

boputnam

12-14-2003, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by Luke_A_P
It seems that at some point one of the bass units has been reconed. It does not have the white coating on the front of the cone (it is just plain paper). But it does seem to have the same Aluminium dustcap and there seems to be quite a bit of glue around the edge of the dustcap. Hey, Luke... :wave:

Just to make sure, and this will tie to what Giskard posted, the LE8T-2 is NOT white on the face of the cone. The LE8T-2 is a very thin paper cone, and this transducer has very different characteristics than the LE8T (white cone), and has a very specific application in the Aquarius IV.

The white cone is the one that has been wrongly installed in your Aquarius IV. :scold:

subwoof

12-14-2003, 01:11 PM

Hey there - I have a single recone kit C16R2115 that would work IF you could deal with the impedance issue.

sub

Luke_A_P

12-14-2003, 02:09 PM

Thanks everybody,

Boputnam,
I see what you are saying, but the plain grey paper one is the one with a DCR of 2.4 ohms.

So doesn't this suggest they have both been incorrectly reconed? (one with a LE8T kit the other with something else.)

Here is a picture of the paperconed one:
http://www.second-level-domain.com/jbl.jpg

Does anyone know if this looks right for a genuine LE8T-2?

(incase anyone is wondering they both do have proper LE8T-2 lables on the back of the magnet.)

It looks like I am kind of stuck for a solution here unless I can get two recone kits of the right type.

Wembley Loudspeakers in london said they can recone the speakers but I suspect they may have been assuming the -2 is the same as the normal LE8T. Also I don't know yet is they are genuine JBL cones or some near equivelent.

Luke

4313B

12-14-2003, 02:21 PM

Yes, it looks right.

Like I said, it appears JBL has a few of the kits left in stock but they are expensive!

You can also look for 2115 drivers, they are the Pro version of the LE8T-2.

boputnam

12-14-2003, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by Luke_A_P
... the plain grey paper one is the one with a DCR of 2.4 ohms. ... Does anyone know if this looks right for a genuine LE8T-2? Concur with Giskard. That is a bona fide LE8T-2. Fragile little cone, hey? Be gentle...

I can't speak to the DCR, but that won't matter anyway once you recone it. If Wembley Loudspeakers are reputable, and will use the JBL factory kit (insist upon it!), you're back in business.

Saw the Dead once at Wembley... :dancin:

Luke_A_P

12-14-2003, 02:51 PM

Ok so if this is the right cone doesn't the low DCR suggest that maybe there is a partial short or something? Maybe from the voice coil rubbing if it was used after the surrond decayed.

I don't have much experience working with damaged drive units apart from rotted surrounds so I'm not sure what to make of the DCR anomaly.

Giskard, thanks for the info on JBL stocks. I will bare it in mind. I'm going to speak to Wembley loudspeaker tomorrow and see what they say. If I can avoid order parts from the states myself I will, it tends to get very expensive and it is very annoying if something goes wrong.

Dave G

12-15-2003, 04:33 AM

Do not bother going to wembley recone. You will get a walrom pattern job WHATEVER you request. The are not capable of doing what you ask and the work they did on my spakers was sub standard.

I was warned not to go to them by a musisian from who I bought these particular speakers, they gave me a vague answer and could not quote a price for the job until completed. Even when I quoted the price to them of two cone kits and the factory labour time to fit!

It depends wether you want speakers with a JBL sound or a waldom (waldom is large USA generic cone and coil reseller) sound but if you want expert advise then this forum is for real JBL expertise.

You will need to ship these to US for a real recone, don't ask if your new recones are genuine if you get em done at Wembley unless they reproducing the various stickers and chalk signings on the back they ain't.

Oh, of course those pattern parts will always be claimed to be as good or better than JBL original or you pay for the name etc. INMHO you get what you pay for.

Dave G

12-15-2003, 04:48 AM

You cannot order cone kits yourself. It is possible that I could get you a pair but with the turmoil with JBL in the UK at the moment they are likely to ignore order. Previous orders have been in the regions of months rather than weeks.

Work out the price of a two way ship and convert the dollars into pounds and send em off. Orange County Speaker are good and fast! It is only money after all.:smthsail:

I have no affilation with Orange County or axe to grind with UK reconers but I would not like you to be disapointed with this project. Being a Aquarius you are already doing the work for love rather than a money making exercise. Perhaps one day these will be worth a fortune therefore making you time and money worth it. :)

Luke_A_P

12-15-2003, 07:53 AM

Right, I have spoken to Trevor Cook at harmon uk.

I seems they have a few recone kits for the LE8T-2 (part C8R2115) in stock in the UK.

Unfortunatly they will not sell them direct, I would have to go through a service center. Harmon UK charge £103.77 +VAT and shipping each and the dealer might add their own markup as well. So it all gets very expensive.

I'm going to have to pass the estimate onto my friend and see what he thinks.

Myself I have never heard the Aquarius IV in working condition. From what I have read the sound is somewhat "compromised" by the design ethic.

Have any of you heard them? Do you think there are better things to do with the money?

Of course my friend has a certain emotional attatchment to the speakers so he might want them just as they were.

Luke_A_P

12-15-2003, 07:57 AM

Oh yeah Dave G,
about ordering them, if you could get them and my friend is interested in paying how much would you want as a handling charge?

Luke

(I did check orange county but they don't list the Le8T-2, going on the price of the Le8T they would be close to 200 dollars just for the cones so I think it would probably be much cheaper to handle it in the UK)

boputnam

12-15-2003, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by Luke_A_P
Myself I have never heard the Aquarius IV in working condition. From what I have read the sound is somewhat "compromised" by the design ethic.

Have any of you heard them? Do you think there are better things to do with the money?

Of course my friend has a certain emotional attatchment to the speakers so he might want them just as they were. Posted 10 July, 2003:

Originally posted by Don McRitchie
Be forewarned, they are an acquired taste. If you like the diffuse sound of Bose 901's, then this is for you. Conversely, it does not have great extension at the frequency extremes and has a fairly uneven response due to the slot loading. As with "Aquarius", you can search the forum and get posters views on just about any model cabinet, transducer (LE8T-2, too) or the like.

The question of "emotional attachment" keeps many of us here, working on many "extra" projects, the value of which is often lost on any but the project protagonist... :rotfl:

johnhb

12-15-2003, 09:11 AM

I have Aquarius 4s I use for surround speakers. I have the correct LE8T-2s but I have substituted LE8Ts and LE8TH to test. They all work fine. The speakers are great for background sound or remotes but I would not select them for main speakers. If the cabinets are in great shape tell your if he can get the original kits to belly up and do it. Be careful putting pressure on the top since it is supported by the partical board speaker plate.

Dave G

12-15-2003, 09:19 AM

That price is fine and fair.

Harman UK should be able to repair these and charge the time allowed in JBL repair costs PDF as available on the JBL pro site. If you had an account with harman you could get these with some sort of discount but perhaps they will be nice to you and not charge for the actual work, just the recone retail cost.

Anyway they should give you a total cost of the work before preceding VAT and all. That is not rocket science for them to do?

Then a authorized repairer on here can say if that is a accurate and fair quote. Doesn't sound expensive to me but JBL is the only speaker worth repairing to me:)

Luke_A_P

12-15-2003, 09:29 AM

John,
that is not a bad idea I will suggest that he considers using them as surround speakers just refoamed if he does not fancy paying to get the new cones.

I think if you tweak the levels a bit they will probably work fine for surrounds speakers once they are refoamed. They wouldn't make a reference home cinema setup but I guess they would do for a normal domestic rig.

Good point about the weight on top, with the way they are constructed excess weight could break the speaker mounting. I'll mention that to him.

Luke

droh

08-18-2004, 02:46 PM

Reviving an old thread here, but I'm interested in restoring a pair of Aquarius 4s. Does anyone havbe a tech sheet on this model? It looks like the appropriate recone kit is the C8R2115 - does anyone know if those can still be obtained?

speakerdave

08-18-2004, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by droh
It looks like the appropriate recone kit is the C8R2115 - does anyone know if those can still be obtained?
Yes.

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Transducers%20Parts%20List/Transducer%20Parts%20List.pdf

4313B

08-18-2004, 03:34 PM

Well look at that! Someone must have ordered enough to cause JBL to rethink supporting them! Price went down too! :dancin:

I wonder if another archealogical dig was made somewhere... :p

John Y.

08-19-2004, 08:17 AM

My AQ4 replacement specs from JBL home show that the LE8 has a foam insert under the dome (provide rigidity for dome loading?).

Anyone familiar with this, and can verify the need?

John Y.

ian r

04-03-2018, 01:29 PM

I have just purchased these
http://https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JBL-Aquarius-4-S109-Speakers-/273123598113?

and havent collected or heard them yet.

so i wonder what i will find and will i need to resuscitate this thread, again

The description states the tweeter are now Bolivar units... that suggests to me the seller may have been the owner or has had occassion to look inside the cabs...

The Bolivar range is unknown here in Scotland so i dont know if its going to be kosher or not but I assume Bolivar are upmarket items from my little knowledge so far.

my first post

macaroonie

04-03-2018, 02:54 PM

droh

04-03-2018, 06:08 PM

Hi Ian,

Welcome to LansingHeritage.

I couldn't get your ebay link to work so wasn't able to read the description or see any pics. I'm not familiar with Bolivar drivers so can't say much about the "upgrade." I'm not sure why someone would upgrade the tweeters, it seems to me that would change the characteristics of the speakers a lot. But maybe the LE20 drivers had a problem and that was the only replacement they could find. But LE20s do show up on ebay a lot so you could revert them back. One big concern I would have is whether the diffusers that fit in front of the tweeters are still there.

The other thing you will want to check out early is the condition of the surrounds, if it's still the original Lansalloy then those are going to need to be replaced, that is one issue that will significantly impact the sound of the speakers.

Let me know if you have any specific problems or questions. I have now done a full restore on four pairs of these, feel like I know them like one of my kids.

Dave

I have just purchased these
http://https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JBL-Aquarius-4-S109-Speakers-/273123598113?

and havent collected or heard them yet.

so i wonder what i will find and will i need to resuscitate this thread, again

The description states the tweeter are now Bolivar units... that suggests to me the seller may have been the owner or has had occassion to look inside the cabs...

The Bolivar range is unknown here in Scotland so i dont know if its going to be kosher or not but I assume Bolivar are upmarket items from my little knowledge so far.

my first post

SEAWOLF97

04-03-2018, 06:42 PM

I'm not familiar with Bolivar drivers so can't say much about the "upgrade."

Have had a couple pairs of Bolivars . Mac is right, they were cheapos. coffee colored vinyl on chipboard,stamped frames on LF's ... were like a L36 copy. AFAICR they had a 10 incher or 8..:dont-know:

Seems they were produced in Bolivar, Tenn. ???

https://www.google.com/search?q=bolivar+speakers&client=firefox-b-1&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiGpuf2vZ_aAhUq2IMKHU7fCZgQsAQIPw&biw=1120&bih=526&dpr=1.5

ian r

04-04-2018, 11:36 PM

Hi Ian , welcome to the forum.

Bolivar was an el cheapo range offered approxlate 70's - early 80's

The tweet mentioned is probably a physical and sensitivity match , no more than that.

I had a pair of AQ for years , walnut , they had a good thing going on , good looks and for an 8" a pretty punchy sound.

I'm in Drymen btw

in the age of Aquarius i lived in Boquhan and Killearn...stirling Uni..

great to hear

Im in wilds of east ayrshire near Glenbuck growing trees!

ian r

04-05-2018, 12:02 AM

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JBL-Aquarius-4-S109-Speakers-/273123598113?

i have hopefully got a working link now.

EDIT

from the sellers ebay

"S109 Aquarius 4 Speakers. A pair of classic floor standing speakers in fair condition for their age (circa 1974). Would benefit from some restoration. The speakers comprise of two drive units, the tweeter unit housed in the top cabinet and the bass unit housed in a lower ported enclosure. Note the tweeters are not original JBL units (believed to be Bolivar). Also includes two glass tops."

Thanks for the welcoming remarks, lovely.

I have researched all the Aq4 and LET8h threads and i have used the dreaded Wembleyrecone
firm mentioned early on when restoring Mark 1 Linn Isobariks.

I agree they used a one shot suits all needs approach which I felt reflects the fact they were PA specialists not hifi buffs.

so I have restored some monsters in my time. These JBLs are for my wifes studio flat if they prove viable. I expect she will mostly use speakers for background music and films and radio. Ideal omni land ....AND will have light artwork on top of them in no time...

As you can now see hopefully from the photos the diffusers are present and generally the rest are said to be in good order except for white veneer lift on the edge which some heat, glue and filler followed by spraying should fix.

I learnt recently that rosewood veneer is no longer legal <CITIES?> to harvest so its just as well they are white

I will enquire on pick up as to why the tweeters were changed.

I have not found much on the xovers on the forum except that they have been found melted ...in some cases here....ho la fun ahead

I have see the recone kits mentioned here AND located ONE JBL recone kit for the LET! It may also suffer from foam rot given its age..

I hope this project wont take long as im also moving house soon! Thanks for the encouragement

macaroonie

04-07-2018, 10:11 AM

If you buy existing RW veneer stock in the UK and do not plan on exporting then you are OK

However this guy has some veneers you may find interesting

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/maruwoodveneers?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

80750

He has Santos in sizes that would suit but do ferret around in his shop , loads of tasty stuff.

That's white ebony BTW.

ian r

04-07-2018, 10:20 AM

If you buy existing RW veneer stock in the UK and do not plan on exporting then you are OK

However this guy has some veneers you may find interesting

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/maruwoodveneers?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

He has Santos in sizes that would suit but do ferret around in his shop , loads of tasty stuff.

That's white ebony BTW.

wow, quite a find and thanks for clarification re rosewood

ian r

04-09-2018, 11:54 PM

Home after the 500 mile trip to pick em up....

You wont believe it

The seller was a retired elctrical engineer whose family firm was the agent for JBL.... he has reconed the LET8 himself ...which was his speciality in his firm which was called Coast Electronics, based in Conwy and I think he said another shop in Bangor- both in Wales UK.

so they are in much better nick than the photos suggested, in his desire to be candid he took the most critical photos possible of the very slight veneer lift

They have been in his possession since the 1970's when a customer never picked them up after a the tweeters were replaced ...with an economic option ....bolivar tweeters...

however the firm were also agents for Tandberg, Sonab, JBL ...i think he said AR and a range of pro PA speakers.... suffice to say they were no fools

Later i will get them out of the car and share the manufacturing numbers etc

AND

plug em in.

Thanks be.

Earl K

04-10-2018, 12:18 AM

Nice turn of effects Ian!

:)

ian r

04-10-2018, 05:56 PM

Extraordinary,,, just listened 10 hours ina row....

JBL dynamics

Omnidirectional modality

So engaging and so emtional compared to my old and new Tannoys, sucking ones interest into the music but not with imaging.

Live and especially live rock is definitely unique. Organ music is proof the recone is physically sound. The Beatles Revolution from the Love cd with that distorted guitar was frankly startled me as it began with such slam and control of the bass

. if it was a car I would say it was fast and had real torque.

They definitely needed the dust blowing off and the warm up took them about an hour before a granularity in the HF sweetened up.

More tomorrow

I dont think I have ever heard anything like,them

ever

macaroonie

04-10-2018, 06:26 PM

:D Yup , they are fun and engaging.

ian r

04-10-2018, 11:30 PM

one presence control feels like grit in a bucket.

are they glued in..as well as screwed in?

is the pot under the knob or internal... if it feels so granular compard tomth other and only has one place it completes the circuit

is it kaput or will cleaner help?

Tweeters definitely not obviously flawed albeit not jbls

If anyone has a pointers to another pair of complete Aquarius4's

do let me know... and not just the tweeters which in an ideal world i would like to replace

ian r

04-17-2018, 12:56 PM

Well after a week of listening i have finally found that one of the bass units needs refoaming inspite of the sellers remarks that he had refoamed them....

So a refoam kit and the LE20 -26 tweeters still needed.

I have an electrical engineer coming by on friday to check the xovers whilst they are in situ
but i have cleaned the presence pots with spray and turning and they are a pleasure to use again.

I was surprised to find the same dreadful speaker connectors are used on the woofer as used externally on the input panel. The electrical quality of the connection must be compromised by this design

macaroonie

04-17-2018, 01:39 PM

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?469-Resurround-Step-by-step

Now while you are at it , and I can't remember this , is there a foam plug behind the dust cap? The foam will be a load of mush by now if there is so you may need to cut the cap off and clear the junk out . Then fit new cap.

Any rubbing noises if you move the cone back and forward ?

Yeah those spring conns were crap. It's not uncommon for the screw that holds it on to the frame to loosen off. Try tightening that one up !!! Also this gives rise to intermittent crackle which can be mistook for burnt coil etc

ian r

04-18-2018, 12:39 AM

Thanks Mac, may I ask how you know so much detail?

Were you involved in hifi biz or as an engineer etc. up here in Scotland?

Im impressed anyway

The foam bung that is in sight occupies a hole in the base of the tweeter cab. it feels fine and no friability, and is slightly domed on the downward face

Is it to spread the bass out ....? or perhaps it damps the tweeter cab somewhat.

The dustcap is obviously metal but i havent had occassion to see behind it yet as the
cone moves freely and it was also very clean in there. no dust or bits ...so no need to proceed further till the refoam kit is located. However at least i know what to expect now, but there is no noise of bits etc. when handling the woofer

i have found a US ebay supplier who sells them for some 16$

Thank you very much for the link, thats kind

I probably dont need the xover checked as the source of the imbalance between cabs now...?

macaroonie

04-18-2018, 03:44 AM

Were you involved in hifi biz or as an engineer etc. up here in Scotland?

For my sins yup :D

btw the go to guy for foam kits , with a universal thumbs up , is Rick Cobb.

here's your foams from his e bay store

https://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-Speaker-Foam-Surround-Kit-LE8-LE8T-112A-H-PR8-2108A-H-2115-L59-L75-BEST-/172182580970

ian r

04-23-2018, 07:50 AM

You wouldnt credit the bs Rick and I are getting around ..ebay says he both does and doesnt ship to the UK.
When I try to pay Ebay prevents it and Ricks resets havent shifted it...we are establishing backchannel links via email so hopefully sort something out

Have other UK or eu members had any problems importing or buying outside USA?

If it gets too problematic I will have to get a us friend to send it on as a lovely birthday gift for my wife.

Odd

04-23-2018, 08:39 AM

Send an email to Rick directly.
[email protected]

cooky1257

04-24-2018, 06:16 AM