4344 Production Plans

[ayaboh]

Ok, as promised, here are the production plans for the stock (or close to stock) 4344. It's a 25 Mb download for the PDF document, and another .5 MB for the Adobe Illustrator foilcal files.


http://www.designcut.com/4344org/4344.pdf (http://designcut.com/4344org/4344.pdf)
http://www.designcut.com/4344org/4344%20Foilcal%20Baffle.ai
http://www.designcut.com/4344org/4344%20Foilcal%20Front.ai

[4313B]

That's a ton of mighty fine work there.

You've raised the bar considerably with your package of drawings.

It appears to be a very nice improvement over the stock enclosure.

4344 and 4344 Mk II

[jblfan]

Ayaboh,

Very nice work !
Congratulation ! :)

Next guy with the same work for 4345 ?? :D

[Hoerninger]

Great work!
:applaud:
Which program did you use for drawing?
____________
Peter

[Guido]

Thank you for this!

What is a AL-603 lens?

[Hofmannhp]

Ok, as promised, here are the production plans for the stock (or close to stock) 4344. It's a 25 Mb download for the PDF document, and another .5 MB for the Adobe Illustrator foilcal files.


http://www.designcut.com/4344org/4344.pdf (http://designcut.com/4344org/4344.pdf)
http://www.designcut.com/4344org/4344%20Foilcal%20Baffle.ai
http://www.designcut.com/4344org/4344%20Foilcal%20Front.ai

Hi Ayaboh,

is it possible to convert the Illustrator files to "psd", or "eps" ?

HP

[Hoerninger]

... convert the Illustrator files to "psd", or "eps" ?


They can be openend with AcrobatReader. Renaming should be enough.
____________
Peter

[ayaboh]

Great work!
:applaud:
Which program did you use for drawing?
____________
Peter

Hi Peter.

I'm using Autodesk Inventor for the 3D modelling and drawings, and Adobe Illustrator for the vectorised foilcal files.

[ayaboh]

Ayaboh,

Very nice work !
Congratulation ! :)

Next guy with the same work for 4345 ?? :D

Thanks!

I'm still thinking hard when it comes to the 4345. Maybe I should try to get hold of a couple of 2245s and go for the real thing.

[yggdrasil]

If you have the space, then why not go for the 2245's. The cost will be more or less the same.

[ayaboh]

Thank you for this!

What is a AL-603 lens?

This is a lens made by Coral. It's made of steel instead of plastic, and attaches to the baffle with snap-on connectors and not velcro as the JBL stock lens.

[ayaboh]

Hi Ayaboh,

is it possible to convert the Illustrator files to "psd", or "eps" ?

HP

Every print shop should be able to use the ai files as is. The eps files get very big very fast and are not used very often anymore. You will loose the scalability (vectors) if you convert them to psd, and I don't know if the dimensions of the printout will be correct after a conversion.

[ayaboh]

If you have the space, then why not go for the 2245's. The cost will be more or less the same.

Yeah, when you have all the parts, but I have no 2245s at the moment so a 4345 will be more expensive.

Another thing, what HF driver is best for the 44/45? I have both 2420J and 2425J in very good condition. It has been a lot of disagreement here according to previous posts.

[hjames]

Yep - worked just fine on my Mac - copied them and then changed the extension from .ai to .pdf and they opened just fine on my system.
Looked great, too! - Thanks!




They can be opened with AcrobatReader. Renaming should be enough.
____________
Peter



Hi Ayaboh,
is it possible to convert the Illustrator files to "psd", or "eps" ?
HP


Ok, as promised, here are the production plans for the stock (or close to stock) 4344. It's a 25 Mb download for the PDF document, and another .5 MB for the Adobe Illustrator foilcal files.


http://www.designcut.com/4344org/4344.pdf (http://designcut.com/4344org/4344.pdf)
http://www.designcut.com/4344org/4344%20Foilcal%20Baffle.ai
http://www.designcut.com/4344org/4344%20Foilcal%20Front.ai

[ayaboh]

Yep - worked just fine on my Mac - copied them and then changed the extension from .ai to .pdf and they opened just fine on my system.
Looked great, too! - Thanks!

the

Nice!

All the fonts (should) have been converted to outlines. The fonts are standard Adobe Helvetica if you get any problems with them.

[4313B]

Another thing, what HF driver is best for the 44/45? I have both 2420J and 2425J in very good condition. It has been a lot of disagreement here according to previous posts.Then you can try both and decide for yourself. Early versions used the 2421B and later versions used the 2425J. You may find the 2420 works just fine. The disagreements are based on opinion so form your own.

[ayaboh]

I plan to use Giskards modified 3145 passive network as a starting point for this project, and also use a DSP or digital EQ for room/speaker correction. Is it possible to use only the frequency dividing components in the network, leave the L-Pads out of the circuit, and use the DSP for levelling of the drivers, or is this just BS? Is it better to build complete networks and then add the DSP? Has anyone here tried this, or something similar?

[yggdrasil]

I don't think you can use the DSP to equalize the driver levels when using a passive crossover, since the levels are far apart.

But you can select a level of padding and do it with fixed resistors to within a couple of dB and let the DSP do the rest.

[ayaboh]

I don't think you can use the DSP to equalize the driver levels when using a passive crossover, since the levels are far apart.

But you can select a level of padding and do it with fixed resistors to within a couple of dB and let the DSP do the rest.

I don't know the range or limits of different DSPs or digital EQs, but it should be no problem to reduce the level of a driver up or down at least 12-15 db. I'm currently using a digital EQ on my sub and it has a range of up to +-24 db. You may be right about the rest, just use a complete network and EQ the whole thing.

[yggdrasil]

Eq applied will affect not only the intended driver.

This works as intended if the driver levels are almost equal.

[ayaboh]

How do I calculate the neccessary power handling for the resistors in the network? In Giskards part list for the equivalent charge coupled network, its only used one or two 12W Mills in parallell. Is 12-24W enough for MF, HF and UHF?

[ayaboh]

Is this Giskards modified passive 3145 network?

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=8853&stc=1&d=1121071310


And this the modified charge coupled network?

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=8596&stc=1&d=1119443783

[4313B]

How do I calculate the neccessary power handling for the resistors in the network? In Giskards part list for the equivalent charge coupled network, its only used one or two 12W Mills in parallell. Is 12-24W enough for MF, HF and UHF?For me it is but for someone who plans on really stepping into them they should gang up on resistors. I'm finalizing the third edition hopefully in the next few weeks. There is currently more interest in the 4355 so that has taken precedent.

There are plenty of power calculators that are web based so rather than waste time posting the formulas you can just do a Google search on L-pad attenuation.

[ayaboh]

Thanks.
Just want to follow what has been done before. I can always play with other parts when everything works.

[Tom Loizeaux]

[QUOTE=ayaboh;135511]Ok, as promised, here are the production plans for the stock (or close to stock) 4344.

Thanks for this great thread and post!
You've framed up my fantasy. I don't plan to get K2 9800s or the new Everests any time soon, but building a pair of these "upgraded" 4344s is a real temptation.
I'm going to wait to see how the crossovers work out and if anyone makes these available on this forum, then the project would seem doable.

I love my 4343s, but I suspect these 4344s would make me even more content.

Thanks again for your contribution.

Tom

[4313B]

I'm going to wait to see how the crossovers work out and if anyone makes these available on this forum, then the project would seem doable.I am going to make one run of them for forum members. So far I have five pairs to do. I should have them finalized in a couple weeks. The 4355's have been far more popular and have taken up most of my time.

[ayaboh]

I have added MDF and veneer layout, and a preliminary part list to the pdf file http://designcut.com/4344org/4344.pdf. I have also added dxf files for the MDF layout http://designcut.com/4344org/Layout%2019mm%20MDF.dxf and http://designcut.com/4344org/Layout%2025mm%20MDF-1.dxf.

The dxf files can be used directly by a workshop with CNC cutting equipment (like high pressure water-jet systems), so it's no need to do full scale markings for the details on the MDF plates. The dxf files are enough.

The veneer layout is on a Lignaflex standard dimension sheet.

[ayaboh]

The drawings are now in rev 1.2, and I will send the MDF plates to the work shop for cutting within a couple of weeks. The grill frames are changed to all MDF to make it simpler to assemble, and the 2420s are changed to 2425s. Most of the detail drawings have been revised to make them easier to follow. The new drawings and DXF files can be downloaded here http://designcut.com/4344org/4344-1.2.pdf and here http://designcut.com/4344org/Material%20Layout.zip.

I have received grill cloth from Zilch, and I'm working on a system to attach the fabric to the frames with a rubber or plastic cord/spline instead of using an adhesive.

Now, - if I could talk Giskard into making me a couple of networks ......

[4313B]

Now, - if I could talk Giskard into making me a couple of networks ......Contact riessen (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/member.php?u=1656) :)

[ayaboh]

Here is the final version of the 4344 drawings http://designcut.com/4344org/4344-Final.pdf, dxf files for material layout http://designcut.com/4344org/Material%20Layout.zip, and ai files for the foilcals http://designcut.com/4344org/Foilcals.zip.


These are actually the as-built drawings for the project. Several things have been changed in this version, and some of the changes have been made during the building period. (I have removed the old files from the server).


A bracing between the back wall and the dog box has been added. This should make the cab a bit stiffer, and also support the center of the baffle.


4 mm asphalt plates are added to the least supported areas of the cabinet, and also to the back plate of the dog-box.


I had to skip the plan of using rubber or plastic splines to attach the fabric to the grill frames. I could not find anything I liked, so I ended up using hot-glue instead. This worked out fine.


A new back connector plate is used with cutouts for speaker terminals and a 9V battery box for charge coupled network.


I tried to attach the baffle foilcals to the baffle with six small super-magnets to make it easy to remove the foilcals and get access to the L-Pad Knobs and L-Pads. This was no success, and I'm now back to some sort of glue or tape.


I had to give up the hunt for original L-Pad knobs, and decided to make my own instead. This was actually very easy, and probably much cheaper than a set of originals. Drawings are included in the docs.


The network boxes have been removed from the drawings. They turned out to be way too small for all the caps and inductors when I finished the 3D modeling. These things are huge! See the drawings. I will make some layout drawings of the network boards later.


A list of nuts and bolt are the only things missing from the documentation, but it should be rather easy to figure out the right amount for all the bits and pieces. I guess US-based builders don't want to use metric screws anyway.


The only deviation from the drawings is that I have used the supplied T-Nuts and bolts that came with the 2123 drivers.


I will post some pics when the cabs start to look good (paint, veneer, and so on).

[sanpablo]

Not Found

The requested URL /4344org/4344.pdf was not found on this server.

Apache/1.3.37 Server at designcut.com Port 80

[hjames]

Nope - the link worked fine for me when he posted it, and worked fine for me today. I just clicked them and they are fine.


Here is the final version of the 4344 drawings

http://designcut.com/4344org/4344-Final.pdf,

dxf files for material layout

http://designcut.com/4344org/Material%20Layout.zip,

and ai files for the foilcals

http://designcut.com/4344org/Foilcals.zip.

But somehow, your link is wrong -
look at the links I posted above, there is no link ending in "4344.pdf"

Ah - I see the problem, you clicked one of his early emails when he posted initial design notes ..

Rather, check the 3 links I posted above for his final informed data.
I'm guessing he removed the preliminary files when he had the complete data posted here ...


Not Found

The requested URL /4344org/4344.pdf was not found on this server.

Apache/1.3.37 Server at designcut.com Port 80

[ayaboh]

Ah - I see the problem, you clicked one of his early emails when he posted initial design notes ..


I removed the old files from the server to avoid the mess of having several versions of the documentation hanging around. Is it possible to edit the first post and update the links?

[sanpablo]

Thanks Hjames, i can read the files

Ayaboh :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

http://membres.lycos.fr/hartsfield/

[Guido]

Stunning WORK!!!

[HipoFutura]

This is the sort of project I've been looking for. Instead of building a pair of subs, I'll use the 2235Hs in these. Why is the 16 ohm 2425J used insead of it's 8 ohm sibling? Don

[SMKSoundPro]

I am printing out the plans, now.

I have all of the parts here. May need help when it comes to the xover.

I was going to build the 4345, since I already have a pair of 2245's sitting here with nothing to do. Wait, I'll put them in their own double 18 cabinet like the ones I built for work, and use that as my center sub.
:idea: ...A pair of these for FOH L/R, and 2-2245's for sub.


Yes. That should do, nicely.:bouncy:

Thank you for your OUTSTANDING work on these plans!!!:applaud:

Scott.

[ayaboh]

Some pics of the finished cabs. Not much that remains now. Networks next.

http://designcut.com/4344org/Pics/4344-1%20lowres.jpg

High-res: http://designcut.com/4344org/Pics/4344-1.jpg


http://designcut.com/4344org/Pics/4344-2%20lowres.jpg

High-res: http://designcut.com/4344org/Pics/4344-2.jpg


http://designcut.com/4344org/Pics/4344-3%20lowres.jpg

High-res: http://designcut.com/4344org/Pics/4344-3.jpg

[4313B]

Nice! :)

[grumpy]

double-ditto! :applaud:

[Guido]

Wonderful!

Is that a 2123H?

[richluvsound]

Where did you get the lenses from? Did you have them made ?
Rich.

[SMKSoundPro]

OUTSTANDING!!!

Congratulations!!!!

Scott.

[ayaboh]

Wonderful!

Is that a 2123H?

Yes, it's a 2123H.

[ayaboh]

Where did you get the lenses from? Did you have them made ?
Rich.

The lenses are Coral AL-603. They are probably out of production, but it should be possible to make them if you have a workshop with sheet-metal tool/equipment. The lenses came with a snap-on attachment. Here are a couple of pictures.

http://designcut.com/4344org/Pics/AL-603.jpg


http://designcut.com/4344org/Pics/bracket.jpg

[britishbulldog]

Hi Guys,

I live in England and i'am new to the world of building speaker systems.
I currently have a home cinema conversation in my garage measuring
16ft long x 10ft wide x 8ft high cieling.I constructed a room with in a room using 3x2 studs - 75mm slab insulation-sheet of 5mm rubber and a 15mm soundblock plaster board.I have a raised section at the back again using a floating floor, put 4 mdf tapered pillers in along the side and put in to corner pieces to take out the 90 degree angles in the corner.My electronics are Lexicon DC2-Parasound HCA2235 5 Channel power amp and the current speakers are M&K 850 With 2 10 inch subs.Would like to build either altec voice of the theatre 1/2 size or JBL Horn loaded what would you guys recomend?:)

[yggdrasil]

Please start a new thread with your question, so we can stay on topic.

[Thomas B]

Hi ayaboh,

Really outstanding work. Can you publish a final network?

/Thomas B

[ayaboh]

I have been busy with a lot of other projects lately, but I will post a follow-up for the networks and wiring when they are ready. I have used Giskards cc layout and part list with Solen inductors and Mills resistors. Caps are all Intertechnik Audyn Q4.

Here is a picture of all boards before soldering, and without resistors.


http://www.designcut.com/4344org/Pics/_N0V0484.jpg

[Thomas B]

That is some serious piece of network. I have been thinking of building the 4350/55 or maybe the 4345 system. Now I have been contemplating your outstanding 4344 upgrade system. My only problem is to find the drivers. Can new JBL replacement drivers be used?

/Thomas B

[Guido]

That is some serious piece of network. I have been thinking of building the 4350/55 or maybe the 4345 system. Now I have been contemplating your outstanding 4344 upgrade system. My only problem is to find the drivers. Can new JBL replacement drivers be used?

/Thomas B

Hi Thomas

If you are ready to buy fresh reconed drivers for that project and know that you can't have them for cheap I might be able to help you.

Please PM me with your mail adress.

[ayaboh]

My only problem is to find the drivers. Can new JBL replacement drivers be used?

/Thomas B

Kenny at KC Audio Gothenburg is a good place to start.

[pos]

working links to the plans:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=267834&postcount=34

[cricri]

[Quote = pos ; 267843 ] des liens de travail avec les plans :

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=267834&postcount=34[/ Quote]


Salut Thomas ,

Il sont la les plans !:bouncy: il y a bien le PDF du filtre , c'est avec ça que j'ai fabriqué les miens

merci pour le coup de main , pour tes 2245H fais moi signe si tu est vendeur ;)

tes passé à coté d'eux :D

[Amnes]

Since I'm writing in this thread - Mad props to ayaboh for making these plans. My carpenter loves them (although his PC less). Now, the plans state the port ducts being R110x32mm. Was it supposed to be 320mm or something around that? According to this (http://www.cieri.net/Documenti/JBL/JBL%20-%20Ports%20and%20Vents.pdf) file it should be 8 and 1/4 inch which translates to 21cm. What is the proper length?