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QwertyAccess
11-08-2006, 11:05 PM
I'm currently using L100T's which are rated at 35-32 freq response, I love the speakers! but, im currently looking for a subwoofer since i dont think they are really designed to play really low frequencies in the first place, which probably isnt safe for the speakers of that era (I Dont like the thought of woofer excursions poping out of the cabinet like some kids these days :P, unless its designed to like stuff these days) I have no idea, but i would imagine i would have the subwoofer handle the frequencies below 80?
Im going for a 12" subwoofer with line level in/outputs preferably, (unless i find some crossover)?. Its also nice, since im a huge movie watcher as well as music listener.

I'm a high school student so my budget is low (part time job worker), I hope to get the best bargain i can possibly pull off, I could live without a subwoofer, but alas im tempted very much & often :P I've been looking at the S120PII, which does look nice?. The limits i'd probably stretch at spending would be around the 200+- (low as possible, unless it is really worth it :P) I love JBL & Audio :D, but my age (15) limits my income, and ability to do certain things. I think i'll stick with JBL equipment though as far as speakers are concerned. I'm the type that usually waits for a good deal to come by, so this could be a long or short hunt.

Any comments and suggestions? :D on side note, I dont think I have any plans in trying to construct a speaker cabinet, I often have a hard time appreciating any artistic constructions my hands put together :P. Premade cabinet doesnt sound too bad, but in any case doesnt sound like any money saving in that venture. I live in California, Orange County area so I try to take advantage of my location if possible :P

northwood
11-09-2006, 12:42 AM
Hi my buddy
I just sold a subwoofer of mine,a YMH SW800,cost me 600USD then and it's a shit,i hate it coz it's too bad,i sold it with half price.
I'm considering 2 BOSE Cannon,it's cheap,700USD ,2 cannon and a controller,and I think it's cheaper in the states,the only problem is I dun know how to carry them back,4M each of them,as ur friend I have to tell u that,the truth as what i know,cheap home use active subwoofer is shit,just dun buy them.u can make one and dirve it with pro amp or buy a cannon that i prefered.

Zilch
11-09-2006, 01:27 AM
LE14A, H, or H-1 in 3.5 cuft Citation 7.4 DIY.

Plate amp from Parts Express.

Done.

Build another when you get more $$$.

Upgrade both to LE14H-3 when you get even more $$$.

Search the forums for the info.

You'll find several satisfied users here. :thmbsup:

[What happened to H-2? :dont-know ]

Don Mascali
11-09-2006, 02:46 AM
They do go pretty low as is. In most music what we percieve as bass is really 40 to 80HZ. L100t's do that very well. They benefit from massive amounts of power too. 400 wpc or so is not out of line. Your bass will improve with more power.
Of course too much is just right.:applaud:

In my living Room I have the L100t3 and have two B380 clones hooked up with them. They are crossed at 125HZ and they kick serious a$$. I use two QSC pro amps 500/200 wpc.

Zilch is on target as allways. Keep upgrading as you go along.

You are in the early stages of the audio addiction, it gets worse as you get older.

grumpy
11-09-2006, 08:33 AM
Nice speakers. What are you powering them with? Personally, I'd add good watts (which
are readily available in your price range) prior to mucking them up with a cobbled together
sub in a small room. Might want to give the surrounds a good look-over (or consider replacing
the foam surrounds) before pounding them... -grumpy

soundboy
11-09-2006, 11:02 AM
Blending a sub is a difficult thing to do....you may end up with LESS pounding bass because of phase problems, etc, especially being a newcomer to that realm. Plus, you are taking away the best part of the L100, and JBL woofers in general...the midbass range, and splitting it to a seperate woofer...Spend the money you would save on a amp/crossover/driver/cabinet....on a better amp system...and,yes, most killer bass is 50hz-80hz...I would just get better electronics, and use what you have....the difference in bass is tremendous between different quality amp combinations....you might have more bass than you realized with a tighter sounding, more powerful amp...lot's of options there on ebay. Whatever you do, have fun:bouncy:

QwertyAccess
11-09-2006, 08:23 PM
Thanks, some interesting information, never thought the LE14 was a good subwoofer driver o_O, making my own cabinet though seems a bit of a stretch though, (especially without tools to work with that), curious though, what kind of amp from partsexpress would you hook up to it?

Im actually currently using a Denon DRA 65 watt at the moment, I'm currently getting my Luxman L-110 fixed, (120 watts) I only had the luxman plugged in for a while before it died, I did love the sound that came out though.

I do love the bass that the L100T makes, I'm only tempted to have a subwoofer since I feel that some of the bass should be directed to a speaker that is designed to play the really low frequencies, to offload the dangerous frequencies off the L100T. I watch alot of movies, and alot of music these days have extremely low frequencies :P.

Also on a side question, anyone happen to have any idea how much it would cost to get a 2214H reconed?, Do they even look the same afterwards? I'm not sure, but the speaker when its played after a certain volume it makes like a kinda of chopping/snap sound. Is that a problem with the spider?

Zilch
11-09-2006, 09:04 PM
Go to www.parts-express.com (http://www.parts-express.com) and put "Plate Amp" into the "Quick Search" window.

Go to Home Depot and/or your local lumber yard. Ask them about 1" birch plywood and their cutting services.

Ask them also about any of their classes where you might build your cabinet.

Is there a wood shop at your school?

QwertyAccess
11-09-2006, 09:20 PM
Thanks for your response Zilch, Sorry, ment to ask like how many watts should the plate amplifier be,

Probably the 240Watt?
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=300-805
i think LE14A is 100W RMS 8OHM?

Zilch
11-09-2006, 09:51 PM
I drive my Citation 7.4s with 150W/channel for music.

There's lots of forum members using LE14s for subs; perhaps some will step up with recommendations. Give them a bit of time to see this thread, at least through the weekend.

LE14A Pe = 100W, LE14H = 150W. 8 Ohms, all of them, no matter what it says on the foilcal....

Robh3606
11-09-2006, 10:05 PM
That's a tuff call. Those 2214's are no slouches and in the L100T cabinet they can reach down quite well. I use Le14A's as subs in my main system which does double duty as stereo and HT. You drop them into 4cu ft and they make a hell of a sub but they are excursion limited. I get around it by placing my crossover -6db point right where they are at their X-Max around 50Hz or so. I am running them with 250watt PE plate amps and no problem used this way. If I ran them at say 125Hz I could see them having a problem because the X-Max is right where you are going to get the most content slam wise for HT. If you go with H's you get a couple more MM's but you need to look at it closely to see what real gain you are going to get from the stock L100t set-up. I think Don's set up using 2235's might make more sense but your budget won't alow it. Get yourself WinIsd and model the 2214 in it's stock enclosure3.3 cubic ft and the Le-14's in 3.5-4cu ft too see if you think the gain will be worth it to you. You need to look at the cabinet tunings as I set them close but as you can see in this comparison you may not gain that much extension. By the time you add up the drivers, plate amps and materials for the cabinets?????

http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=winisd

L100T info

http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical%20Sheet/L100t%20ts.pdf

Have fun!

Rob:)

grumpy
11-10-2006, 07:29 AM
Also on a side question, anyone happen to have any idea how much it would cost to get a 2214H reconed?, Do they even look the same afterwards? I'm not sure, but the speaker when its played after a certain volume it makes like a kinda of chopping/snap sound. Is that a problem with the spider?

Adding to existing advice:

Regarding a recone, these folks are close to you:
http://www.ocspeaker.com/ocsrepairprice.html

If only a refoam/surround-replace is needed (may not be), it's much less.

Sounds like you're over driving the speakers or the amp. Suggest you might want to
hang back on the volume until you figure this out. An inexpensive used variable crossover
would be worth learning about/playing with... would allow you to set up a high-pass
at say 30Hz and eventually add a sub as you have time and resources. Unbalanced
ins/outs would let you use it in a tape loop or pre-out/amp-in loop on a receiver. If
your receiver has an "infra-sonic" filter switch, you might try it.

Also might want to consider trying various speaker locations to reduce the need for
any current bass level adjustments or loudness switch settings.

-grumpy

QwertyAccess
11-10-2006, 05:11 PM
I thank you all for your time.

I believe my amplifier managed to damage one of the drivers, (this happened long ago) if i switch the outputs, basicially one driver is able to play alot higher volumes, and it never makes such a sound. I wasnt careful with the connections on the other speaker, and it was loose while playing, So somewhere the other driver got damaged when played at high volume and the connection was loose. (bad current at high volume) a mistake i wont do again. So do you think this can only be repaired through a re-cone? or perhaps maybe its a problem that might be possible to fix if someone can open up the dust cap and see if something jumped out of place (i have no idea what the insides of a woofer is)

But anyway, I think i know the answer to that already on the forums. Any amount of information helps me though.

Now real question though, is I'm only worried about OCS doing what its well known for, which is if they dont have the right parts, they will often stretch the foam, or whatever to make it work.. (Thanks to them i have foam on the front side of my 2214H's) I might go through OCS again, however this time im definately making sure of what they are doing EXACTLY, instead of assuming they do everything correct. Anyone have any comments about this?



Clipped from Edgewound:
A common problem with the 2214 is the spider cracking and tearing away at the cone apex where it joins the cone/spider/voice coil joint.

It's possible to put a new suspension on a driver that still has a good cone/coil. It's more labor but still less costly than a full recone.


I hope thats the only problem, and that it is possible to repair it without a full recone. Perhaps OCS will do that? (Dont even know what a suspension is)

grumpy
11-10-2006, 08:26 PM
Pointed at OCS so you'd have a ballpark price to think about...
wasn't necessarily intended as a recommendation. I have my own experience
with them, others have theirs.

Why not PM edgewound? Does nice work. -grumpy

Shane Shuster
11-10-2006, 08:56 PM
I would fix any problems your L100ts have first then buy a used subwoofer 12 inches or bigger from any of the name brands depending on whats available.

I'm 28 and disagree with posters about there not being meaningful content below 40hz. If you listen to modern movies or music loud, most vintage speakers don't cut it. More power never helped me. More displacement did.

I would buy a cheap sub now and worry about upgrades when you are 25 or so and have the money to get what you really want. Constantly upgrading costs more than just buying what you really wanted in the first place.

Mr. Widget
11-10-2006, 10:44 PM
I'm 28 and disagree with posters about there not being meaningful content below 40hz. If you listen to modern movies or music loud, most vintage speakers don't cut it. More power never helped me. More displacement did.
Blaspheme! ...and in many cases true. It is just hard to get those guys that think CCR is modern music to realize that there are recordings out there that actually contain low notes.



I would buy a cheap sub now and worry about upgrades when you are 25 or so...I'd buy a decent table saw now. learn how to use it and spend the rest of your life building bigger, better, and badder systems... oh, hold on a minute... that's what I did.:applaud:


Widget

Don Mascali
11-11-2006, 04:20 AM
I'm 28 and disagree with posters about there not being meaningful content below 40hz. If you listen to modern movies or music loud, most vintage speakers don't cut it. More power never helped me. More displacement did.

No one said there was NO content below 40 HZ. Just that for 95% of commercially recorded music it is filtered out.

I listen to my music with a 61 band RTA display going and the 20 to 40 HZ bands very seldom show any signal. Even some well mastered stuff is lacking down there. I have 3-18" subs and 4-15" mid bass (80 to 250 HZ) drivers in my HT system to maximize it when it IS there.:D

The L100t and L100t3 respond to more power by giving you more articulated bass, keeping the 2214 under control and being able to move that cone like it should. Our mans receiver just isn't going to do them justice. I found a that an amp with "Big Balls" woke mine up and adding 2-B380 clones put them over the top.

Shane Shuster
11-11-2006, 01:22 PM
No one said there was NO content below 40 HZ. Just that for 95% of commercially recorded music it is filtered out.


I just spot checked some of my collection which is probably 85% post 1990.
I would say its more like 50%. I checked quite a few genres.

Regarding power I thought QwertyAccess was using a Luxman? The only time I have had more power help was when I was 18, I had one of those 1980s low-end Sony receivers. Remember the ones with a sheet metal body and that pressboard back. I bought an Onkyo and it did help. But once I was past that basic quality level more power didn't produce more bass. 100 watts is too much distortion in most speakers anyway, they no longer sound they're best so why try to put 1000w into them?

Titanium Dome
11-11-2006, 01:23 PM
(snip)

I found a that an amp with "Big Balls" woke mine up and adding 2-B380 clones put them over the top.

Wouldn't the B380 clones put them under the bottom?

QwertyAccess
11-15-2006, 07:23 PM
Im actually only powering them with a Denon DRA-625 which in any case, only puts out 65 watts, My luxman i used it for like 2 days, it sounded much more amazing, but sadly it stopped working, and its been recently sent to a repairman. I think the Luxman's 120 Watts, and it also happening to be a very well built amplifier and not only that CLEAN, might make these L100T's sing, hopefully they make it out of the shop okay. Its been sent to an asian repairman, as my dad says those guys are alot better at figuring things out, and also cheaper.

I think i'll love the luxman though, its one of those things that look good on the outside, and on the inside, dont have outside picture though, but i attached insides of mine. I think L-110 Luxman back in 1982? or something. It was spotless in my opinion!

So hopefully that comes back alive, and i'll try to see if i can get my 2214H reconed by edgewound, as for subwoofers, if i find it necessary, i'll just have to keep an eye out for some nice deal.

I can understand that alot of power is nice, but somehow i do find it risky to have something like 400 watts go into a 200 watt speaker?, if not even more.

Still furthering off topic, what would be a good way to raise a speaker like the L100T's? height perhaps a few inches, I was thinking of picking up some concrete blocks, and just have the speakers sit on it like that.

Robh3606
11-15-2006, 08:10 PM
I can understand that alot of power is nice, but somehow i do find it risky to have something like 400 watts go into a 200 watt speaker?,

Only if you are down right irresponsible will you have an issue. Back in the day one of the sure fire ways to launch your woofers was to drop your tone arm. Unless you have an oops or play them way to loud you should be fine. I used to have 50 watt L 100's with a 200 watt per channel amp. Never had a problem. That power is there for instantaneous peaks not steady state.

Rob:)

Ian Mackenzie
11-17-2006, 05:08 AM
If you like the retro look and die hard principles have a look at the Zu Method. You can build one with Eminence 15 inch drivers for a whole lot less

http://www.zucable.com/method/index.html

timc
11-27-2006, 01:18 AM
Hi.

I want to say that in my setup with JBL L65 Jubal's, having an amplifier with good enough LF controll is esential. And its not always the amount of watts that decide. The Pass Labs Aleph 1.2 (200W) had a tremendous clarity in the mids and upps, but the bottom sounded mushy and slow. I then tried an ICE based solution witch puts out 250w/channel. No way near the Pass in the mid/upps, but in a totally different leauge when it comes to bass response.

What i finally ended up with was a Crown XTi-1000 (275w) with a built in parametric EQ. Here i got to tune down the 65hz, wich in my room becomes a bit boomy. And OMG the bass plumped down into the 20s and tapping of strings on the bass guitar became much clearer and the kickdrum was as physical as you could wish for (speaker size taken into consideration). Vintage speakers CAN play into the low's ;)

So my conclusion is that JBL woofers are kinda hard to controll, but once you find the right match the outperform everything else i have heard. And you cant get to much power.

I dont like to say negative things about peoples gear, but that Denon wont cut it, im sorry.

Best regards