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alexkerhead
10-29-2006, 09:17 PM
Seriously, so many threads people are bashing L100s.
Stop that immature garbage.

It is childish and ridiculous to bash another person's speakers.

It started as being fun playing around, but some of you guys are taking it WAY to far.

Not everybody wants 500lb horn loaded cabinets in their listening area.
Not everyobdy can afford studio models.
Not everyobdy wants to upgrade, they are happy with what they have.
It is great if someone wants to upgrade, but some folks don't have the means.

Lay off, and appreciate some people are participating in vintage JBL stuff and are taking care of and treasuring these classics.

Like many hypocritical members have said "Everyone has different ears"

Storm
10-29-2006, 09:25 PM
Alex -

Check out the post I just wrote for the other thread, basically the same thing you said here and submited at the exact same time.

I agree, some of these guys have engineering degrees and stuff so they think they are better than everyone else.

All speakers are great - why would they have engineered them and sold them in the first place if they never were good? That makes no sense. It is just people with way too much money and time who nit pick and find everything wrong with something.

I equate these people like food critics...all food goes down the same and everyone has a different taste - all music goes down the same, everyone has a different ear.

I think some speakers are only better than another because like my dad always says - "Once I have it, it is always better." That is true in every sense of the word.

Let's just forget about bashing, turn up our favorite CD, sit back, and enjoy! Life is way too short to begin with.

Peace.

:D

Zilch
10-29-2006, 10:13 PM
Show me ANY post wherein I have bashed L100, and I will request that it be removed.

[Assuming I agree that it's "bashing," of course.... :) ]

alexkerhead
10-29-2006, 10:16 PM
Show me ANY post wherein I have bashed L100, and I will request that it be removed.

[Assuming I agree that it's bashing, of course.... :) ] I don't see your name in this thread. It could be any of the thousands of members here I am referring to.

Zilch
10-29-2006, 10:20 PM
WHEW! Well, it's all good then. :thmbsup:

I'm most pleased to have assurance that it's not ME or anything I'VE written here recently what has incited your ire.

[Don't wanna be a miscreant, nope, nope.... :no:]

Mr. Widget
10-29-2006, 11:53 PM
But they burn so much better after they are bashed...:blink:

I'm sorry... it is just too easy to be a smart ass about this topic.

Oh heck, I have said it before and will say it again... the mighty Century L100 is the only factory built JBL I own... I will hopefully have some replacement Quadrex grilles for them in the not too distant future and will then proudly display them... turned off of course.:applaud:


Widget

soundboy
10-30-2006, 12:19 AM
Alex -

I agree, some of these guys have engineering degrees and stuff so they think they are better than everyone else.
Not better, just infinitely more informed, experienced, and mostly trying to help...if people would let go of their limited exposure to some of these systems and drivers, and try to absorb it, instead of becoming defensive, they might actually learn what they are missing. This is my take. But I have been on here longer than a month, and had hands on with some of these components for 25 years. I am not rich...I am not an engineer. I can always learn something new. It's a lot of fun.


All speakers are great
Really? Then why are you wasting your time on a JBL site? Radio Shack might still be open...:blink:


- why would they have engineered them and sold them in the first place if they never were good? That makes no sense.
It's called "price points" in marketing. Been mentioned on here many times.


It is just people with way too much money and time who nit pick and find everything wrong with something.
From what I have read on here...this is a baseless insult to the guys on here trying to share information.... Spend some time reading about something other than L100's, which were purposely designed to be innacurate in the first place...and discover that JBL (and the engineering world) has moved beyond that in the last 37 years. Don't take it personal...I don't.



I think some speakers are only better than another because like my dad always says - "Once I have it, it is always better." That is true in every sense of the word.
Apples don't fall far from the tree...so the saying goes.

I love my little 4301B's. They aren't my only speaker, or my only JBL's. But I listen to them more than any others. Because I like what they do. They have 30 year old paper tweeters, similar to your L100's 35 year old paper tweeters. And that's ok. Really. They are what they are...fun to listen to.

Neither of these compares to anything like what is available even in the past 15-20 years for reasonable money. But you have to want to try something else...I have, many times. It doesn't mean my 4301 suck.
Joining the boys club and hoping everyone likes your toys is really not what this forum is about...is it? It is annoying to keep having this paranoid, defensive stuff come up so much. I just want to read about JBL speakers and what other guys are doing with them....it's all fun, if you allow it to be. :bouncy:

alexkerhead
10-30-2006, 12:25 AM
soundboy,

This thread was not intended for debate. People should be curtious, no matter how much or how little they contribute. Nothing more, nothing less.

So please do not carry this on any furthur.

Storm was trying to get people to understand that fun is the point of audio, not dead seriousness.

Storm
10-30-2006, 12:37 AM
soundboy,

This thread was not intended for debate. People should be curtious, no matter how much or how little they contribute. Nothing more, nothing less.

So please do not carry this on any furthur.

Storm was trying to get people to understand that fun is the point of audio, not dead seriousness.

Alex - you could not be more right! Most of these posters on this forum are dead serious about their hobby. Seems to me hardly anyone has any fun or casually sits back and listens to their speakers.

Same with the Altec thread - that is why they banned me from ever joining.

Seems to me these audio threads are run by old geezers who could care less about passing on the audio heritage. All they care about is what they got and who has it or what can I do to make it better.

I guess I heard it right before - this JBL forum only likes things that can be messed with, not the stuff that is too easy to understand. What I mean is, the less it can be modified, the less respect it has among this community.

I surmise that this is the exact reason why Zilch and others does not understand simple posts such as ours.

Peace.

alexkerhead
10-30-2006, 12:47 AM
I tend to agree. It is sad people can't just enjoy their stuff, they have to shove it down other people's throats.

Zilch
10-30-2006, 12:53 AM
What we know and appreciate is that there's more to quality sound reproduction than throbbing quarter-panels, is all.

Indeed, we have long since progressed well beyond mere rutting.

[We can still do that with the best of them, tho.... :p ]

alexkerhead
10-30-2006, 12:58 AM
What we know and appreciate is that there's more to quality sound reproduction than throbbing quarter-panels, is what.

[Indeed, we are long since past rutting... :p ]
Boom Boom (http://personalwebs.oakland.edu/~mrbuchma/Funky/pyramid.jpg)

Storm
10-30-2006, 01:03 AM
Boom Boom (http://personalwebs.oakland.edu/%7Emrbuchma/Funky/pyramid.jpg)

:spin:

Zilch
10-30-2006, 01:14 AM
Now HOW did I just KNOW that?

[Zilch must be PSYCHIC or somethin'.... :applaud:]

mikebake
10-30-2006, 05:05 AM
All speakers are great - why would they have engineered them and sold them in the first place if they never were good?

"All speakers are great"

No they are not. What tripe.

"why would they have engineered them and sold them in the first place if they never were good?"

I presume you like Bose, then?

mikebake
10-30-2006, 05:08 AM
This thread was not intended for debate.

Unfortunately, the person starting the thread doesn't get to dictate the ensuing responses.

clmrt
10-30-2006, 06:08 AM
Edirol, anyone?

Alex -

You do realize the L100 is like a McDonalds Cheeseburger, right?

I don't blame people fo liking them. Hell, I eat the occasional cheeseburger from McD.

But to think there's no reason to look past them? I mean, once you taste a good filet...

Now if someone made a personal attack, that's one thing. But if one of these members voiced their opinion that the L100 is a sugar-coated mass-market boom-tizz mess that forever gave JBL a rep that is hard to shake, you simply have to accept it. Of course you can disagree by saying you like them, that they are your favorites, but remember, some of these guys may have had a hand in building some of the best systems on Earth...and it's more or less their place on the web - ain't AK over here.

Also, just read between the lines - many people here have L100's, and some are actually hooked up!

But notice also, many are not. Many are in the garage. That's where my L100-types wound up before I utterly got sick of them and moved on.

Enjoy them. Don't think we hate them, but when the kids throw a fit that we ain't going to McPukes for dinner...:barf:

hjames
10-30-2006, 06:59 AM
WHEW! Well, it's all good then. :thmbsup:

I'm most pleased to have assurance that it's not ME or anything I'VE written here recently what has incited your ire. [Don't wanna be a miscreant, nope, nope.... :no:]

hey - be nice ...
I've really got nothing against old cheap JBLs ...
I bought a pair of L36 speakers back in the day - starving student days - I financed them (and a Yamaha CR400 receiver) L36s were $400 a pair new in 1976 - I sure couldn't justify $600 a pair for new L100s.

Played and loved those L36s for years - refoamed them 8 years ago and I still own them - tho they are not currently plugged in anywhere (house is too small).

Last year I found a set of big studio monitors for $300 a pair, tho I had to drive to Philly to get them ('bout 4 hrs each way). Thats not big money at all - but the sound really educated my ears - made me want more ... so I upgraded them and still have more plans to rework them further. I didn't even know about those speakers 'til I read the posts here by Zilch and Tom and a bunch of others here.
Didn't know about reworking them 'til I read some of Zilch's posts here .. About 100s and 4320s - heck - just read this - http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/jbl/l100.htm

My point is - I didn't come in here as an authority - just as a fan ... I read stuff and searched the threads here and read more stuff - I am still amazed at the depth of stuff thats here - last week I read a very long series of posts about upgrading 4343/4344/4345 speakers - I don't GET all of that just yet - but some of it makes sense and with a bit more reading and experimenting I'll learn more.

The long point is - don't dis those older folks here - they really do know what they're talking about -
everyone is NOT an equal here - some of these folks have been doing sound work for many years and have a HUGE knowledge base they share - heck, its a free site, you don't even hafta pay to learn!
And if you don't like to learn, heck, you are free to LEAVE ...


Boom Boom Boom Boom (http://www.bluesforpeace.com/lyrics/boom-boom.htm)

bigstereo
10-30-2006, 07:02 AM
Peter Piper picked a peck of pompous asses?

I have L100's, Love em they stayed "hooked up".

Alex, remember what I told you.

whizzer
10-30-2006, 07:53 AM
First, having knowledge based on experience does not automatically make one a "geezer," and sharing that knowledge with those willing to learn does not constitute pomposity. Those unwilling are, of course, free to disregard it. To dis that knowledge on the basis of no experience or limited experience, well now, that pretty much constitutes pomposity. There are no egos larger than those of the ignorant; the more you learn, the more you realize there is to be learned, and the more humble you become.

boputnam
10-30-2006, 08:28 AM
Lay off...Damn - I missed an L1:blink: :blink: bashing session?

It's a real pity I've been so busy... :rotfl:

Robh3606
10-30-2006, 08:38 AM
First off let's tone this down. If you disagree that's fine say so. I don't want to see any name calling or anything else that questions another persons integrity or is insulting. This is a discussion about speakers, there is no reason to get heated about it. Agree to disagree and move on.

Rob:)

boputnam
10-30-2006, 09:11 AM
It is sad people can't just enjoy their stuff, they have to shove it down other people's throats.But, that is actually what you are doing, here.

Regardless, I've never understood the defensiveness of L:) :) owners - maybe it's because they need to be? I surely dunno... :p

boputnam
10-30-2006, 09:17 AM
I guess I heard it right before - this JBL forum only likes things that can be messed with, not the stuff that is too easy to understand. What I mean is, the less it can be modified, the less respect it has among this community.That is completely wrong and a misrepresentation. Why try (or bother, even...) to characterise the entire forum with some potentially inflamatory rhetoric?

DIY stuff takes more time because it involves (re)engineering and (re)design. The DIY'ers are tweakers - a little more here, a little more there - they always come back for more.

So, while it may look disproportionate, there is equal devotion here to refurbishing any/all JBL's to new - it simply doesn't take so much discussion.

Once we Refurbishers get it done, we are simply happy. :)

JBLnsince1959
10-30-2006, 09:18 AM
Damn - I missed an L1:blink: :blink: bashing session?

It's a real pity I've been so busy... :rotfl:

:applaud:

you know I've been wondering where you were while this tread was growing..

NOT, that you would every said ANYTHING against a L100

...:rotfl:

150a/250ti
10-30-2006, 09:19 AM
my brother has a pair of L100's, when he comes over to my place and listens to my 250ti's he always says there is something wrong with them because they don't have the bass of his L100's. he is obviously nuts and does not understand what he's saying or hearing.he likes to blast his L100s and watch the woofer almost bounce out the cabinet. meanwhile my 250ti put out a louder stronger deeper bass effortlessly.I would be realy pissed if the 250ti's did sound or act like L100's.not that there is anything wrong with likeing the L100 sound. It just doesn't realy reproduce the original sound as acuratly as a lot of other speakers.My 250ti,s are the better speaker, and almost anybody who knows anything about jbl's would agree.

alexkerhead
10-30-2006, 09:20 AM
But, that is actually what you are doing, here.

Regardless, I've never understood the defensiveness of L:) :) owners - maybe it's because they need to be? I surely dunno... :p
For instance.

"Your L100s suck, go get some 4350s."

That is shoving what you like in my face and cutting down what I own.

I only ask people carry themselves with dignity and not cut down other people's stuff.

But I know that is asking a lot, or at least it would be asking a lot to toddlers.

boputnam
10-30-2006, 09:22 AM
"Your L100s suck, go get some 4350s."Obviously an eBay'er trying to move some product...

alexkerhead
10-30-2006, 09:24 AM
my brother has a pair of L100's, when he comes over to my place and listens to my 250ti's he always says there is something wrong with them because they don't have the bass of his L100's. he is obviously nuts and does not understand what he's saying or hearing.he likes to blast his L100s and watch the woofer almost bounce out the cabinet. meanwhile my 250ti put out a louder stronger deeper bass effortlessly.I would be realy pissed if the 250ti's did sound or act like L100's.not that there is anything wrong with likeing the L100 sound. It just doesn't realy reproduce the original sound as acuratly as a lot of other speakers.My 250ti,s are the better speaker, and almost anybody who knows anything about jbl's would agree. JBL has never had a reputation for accurate sound reproduction.

150a/250ti
10-30-2006, 09:30 AM
My brother also has a set of L200,s they are in the same league as L100,s kind of loud and crappy.

alexkerhead
10-30-2006, 09:35 AM
My brother also has a set of L200,s they are in the same league as L100,s kind of loud and crappy.
:bs:

150a/250ti
10-30-2006, 09:36 AM
jbl does and has always made an excellent sound reproducing speaker just not their cheaper ones.after all they have to sell enough speakers to enough people to make a profit or at least stay afloat

alexkerhead
10-30-2006, 09:37 AM
:bs:

150a/250ti
10-30-2006, 09:41 AM
have you ever heard a 250ti or are you just parroting some crap you read here.not that they are the best jbl speaker ever made by a long shot.

alexkerhead
10-30-2006, 09:45 AM
have you ever heard a 250ti or are you just parroting some crap you read here.not that they are the best jbl speaker ever made by a long shot.
I've heard them. Had a good two hour session too.

Why did you ask?

alexkerhead
10-30-2006, 10:08 AM
"All speakers are great"

No they are not. What tripe.

"why would they have engineered them and sold them in the first place if they never were good?"

I presume you like Bose, then? If someone likes their speakers, they are not crap to the person who likes them. If someone likes bose I am not going to tell them their speakers suck, but I might let them give mine a listen, and if they want to upgrade fine, if they like their bose, fine. Leave people be. Your kind of mentality will ruin this hobby.

Like I said, if anyone likes something, they don't like seeing people bash it.

SEAWOLF97
10-30-2006, 10:22 AM
.
Seems to me these audio threads are run by old geezers who could care less about passing on the audio heritage. All they care about is what they got and who has it or what can I do to make it better.
I guess I heard it right before - this JBL forum only likes things that can be messed with, not the stuff that is too easy to understand. Peace.

GEEZERS , that is...

Well yes, I'm a geezer and proud to have made it this far, Older than Alex and Storm COMBINED.

I started out with L100's. Thought they were the best in the world. Eventually grew out of them. Passed them on to my 24 yo son who loves them. Eventually he too will out grow them and maybe pass to his son :)

They are FUN speakers. Not really accurate. Neither are my L36's. Now using 4410's and those are sometimes TOO accurate. You can bash them if you'd like. Doesn't matter to me , I am the one who listens to them.

BUT, I did ask and took advise from Zilch and others before auditioning them. Those guys were correct.

The point I'm trying to make is that with experience comes knowledge. Unless you already have the knowledge , build on other peoples experiences. Dont reinvent the wheel.

Storm
10-30-2006, 10:28 AM
"All speakers are great"

No they are not. What tripe.

"why would they have engineered them and sold them in the first place if they never were good?"

I presume you like Bose, then?

Mike - There is a difference between marketing and engineering. Like Alex said, if someone likes Boses leave them be. However, I clearly understand that bose is about marketing and not engineering.

I only use Altec Valencias and will until the day I die.

Let's educate...not bash others for what they have.

It's almost like the debate between a Chevy and a Jaguar. Is one better than the other, or does one offer the user a different ride? Same thing with speakers.

I rest my case.

Peace.

Mr. Widget
10-30-2006, 10:31 AM
There are no egos larger than those of the ignorant; the more you learn, the more you realize there is to be learned, and the more humble you become.I love this line....

I love my L100s... they certainly sound better to me than any Bose system I have ever heard... and at $200-$400 a pair on the used market, they are quite a bargain, but there are so many other speakers that I'd rather listen to for any prolonged listening. With my L100s I miss the detailed mids, I miss the delicate shimmer that cymbals and other percussion instruments have, and then I also miss the really deep bass that some music has... but I have also experienced the grin on my face as that white cone was pulsing with '70s rock...

For anyone who feels they have reached audio nirvana with their L100s, that great. Getting militant about it isn't particularly conducive to polite conversation though.


Widget

Zilch
10-30-2006, 10:39 AM
My brother also has a set of L200,s they are in the same league as L100,s kind of loud and crappy.The "Quintessential R&R speaker," those big boys easily bury wimpy-weenie bookshelf L100s when it comes to that "sound."

Heads UP, L100 lovers!!

[And when you're finally TIRED of that, they're a great platform for building something that actually sounds good.... :thmbsup:]

boputnam
10-30-2006, 10:39 AM
... I clearly understand that (B)ose is about marketing and not engineering. That's not correct, nor fair. Bose involves a great deal of engineering, but is about a different approach.

Ask Widget to tell the joke about the day James B met Mr. Bose - it sums it ALL up... :applaud:

Zilch
10-30-2006, 10:42 AM
I only use Altec Valencias and will until the day I die.Pfffttt.

You'll roll over in a minute for the next pair of Model 19s that come along.

You ain't foolin' NOBODY here.... :p

alexkerhead
10-30-2006, 10:43 AM
I love this line....

I love my L100s... they certainly sound better to me than any Bose system I have ever heard... and at $200-$400 a pair on the used market, they are quite a bargain, but there are so many other speakers that I'd rather listen to for any prolonged listening. With my L100s I miss the detailed mids, I miss the delicate shimmer that cymbals and other percussion instruments have, and then I also miss the really deep bass that some music has... but I have also experienced the grin on my face as that white cone was pulsing with '70s rock...

For anyone who feels they have reached audio nirvana with their L100s, that great. Getting militant about it isn't particularly conducive to polite conversation though.


Widget
I don't believe I got militant at all, I believe I conducted my request in a thoughtful and respectful manner. You being the administrator, I appreciate your input, but I am not trying to start anything. I just want other members to be curtious about what they say. Calling people's speakers crap is rude and arrogant.

I have not found audio nirvana, but like you said, the L100 system is a bargain at the price. That is why I use them, I cannot afford or have the space for giant horn loaded contraptions.

Storm
10-30-2006, 10:50 AM
You'll roll over in a minute for the next pair of Model 19s that come along.

You ain't foolin' NOBODY here.... :p

Nope, Zilch. But if I found them for cheap I would re-sell them. I love the valencias and it would be hard for me to part with them.

The debate between the M19's and the Valencias is another debate in itself.

If someone wanted to do a straight trade, I still would not do that.

I purchased an equalizer and it has helped tame the beast.

My dad owns a pair of L100s and uses them in his 7th floor condo in downtown phoenix. He loves them, but everytime I listen to them I just want to run home and turn on mine. They are nice speakers, but not the best.

The point I am trying to make is just like you guys telling me M19's are better, that is clearly an opinion.

If someone likes speakers and can live with them, leave them be. It's not like they are going to kidnap you, tie you to a chair and force you to listen to them for the rest of your natural life.

Let's just agree that every ear is different, just like taste in clothes, cars, food, etc.

We can inform that one is better than another, but lets not shove it down other's throats...and I sense sometimes that that is what people do on this forum. I certainly felt it when we had the thread about the M19's vs Valencias.

If you don't want to hear them, turn up the music and turn off the computer...simple.

Peace.

Mr. Widget
10-30-2006, 10:55 AM
Calling people's speakers crap is rude and arrogant.
It's all opinion and fair game on this forum... if someone says that he owned LX99Bs and thought they were the worst speakers known to man, but you like them... so what. If you post a photo of your baby daughter and he says that the child looks like the creature from the black lagoon, that would be quite rude and uncalled for as well as probably wrong. (Well at least I would hope so.)

On to Bose... another type of horror. They really do quite a bit of engineering... their goals are tweaked in my opinion, but they have been very active in developing new technologies. JBL found out when they came out with their own TCBP enclosure and got sued for patent infringement by the boys from Boston.


Widget

Zilch
10-30-2006, 10:55 AM
Alex, it's "courteous," Bud.

[Just tryin' to be helpful.... :p ]

150a/250ti
10-30-2006, 11:03 AM
yeah right waving a flag BS does strike me as being militant, disrespectful, and rude. and of course thoughtless. would you say that to a grown mans face.

hjames
10-30-2006, 11:13 AM
yeah right waving a flag BS does strike me as being militant, disrespectful, and rude. and of course thoughtless. would you say that to a grown mans face.
yeah, but he's not a geezer, so he is entitled to dis them for being older and pompostuous!
Knowledge is SO over-rated! :applaud:

Besides, he who controls the 100s controls the world ... ! :007:

boputnam
10-30-2006, 12:03 PM
We are done here.

No point risking an otherwise nice day on a mundane topic. Everyone to your corner and listen to your speakers and feel the love...

Cerrada!

And that's the third time today I've done this. My fuse is ever shorter, members.

AND, LET ME MAKE THIS REAL CLEAR - ANYONE RESPONDING IN-KIND TO A BADLY MANNERED MEMBER IS NO LESS GUILTY.

AS I SAY IN HOCKEY "DON'T DRAW THE PENALTY" BY REACTING TO SOME INFRINGEMENT.