To the graph guru's

[Ken Pachkowsky]

Am I reading this right? Does it appear I have some phase issues? Could room anomalies masquerade as phase errors?

Thanks for your input.

Ken

[Zilch]

What are your crossover frequencies, Ken?

[Ken Pachkowsky]

250hz
1000hz
4500hz

Thanks Zilch

[Ian Mackenzie]

(Me) I tbought you said it sounded perfect. :blah: :blah: :blah: Oh No.

Ken,

Just trust your ears, could be mike location and I would not loose sleep over it.Yawn.

If you tweek it till the cows come home and its straight line like the manual says the down side is it will probably sound terrible to a visitor and you don't want that!:D


Ian

Ps Pay no attention to Me, he has a very short memory span!

[Ken Pachkowsky]

(Me) I tbought you said it sounded perfect. :blah: :blah: :blah: Oh No

Ian

Ps Pay no attention to Me, he has a very short memory span!

Thats right, I forgot:)

Ken

[Ian Mackenzie]

Glad you have a sense of humour, its all too easy to take t-oooo seeweously!:)

[Zilch]

Invert the phase at 1 kHz.

Retest.

I'm also surprised to see it rolling off at 12 kHz.

What's the UHF driver/horn?

Looks like you don't have it compensated yet.

I'm hoping Mr. Widget can help you with this. :blink:

[He knows DEQX....]

[boputnam]

I'm surprised to see it rolling off at 12 kHz.That looks like the hi-cut filter is set too low (at 12kHz) with a -24dB slope...

[boputnam]

In short this is the first setup I have heard that surpasses the old pre-amp, hrx and bss eq configuration. Hard to believe but the difference is quite dramatic. I hate to use over used terms but sometimes they say it all. Here goes……it’s like a veil was lifted. Yes, I really said that……now I will go and wash my mouth out with soap. Overall it just sounds cleaner and more dynamicThat EQ looks uneven to me - your perception of increased clarity may relate to the emphasis you have for the A-weighted SPL curve.

To the curve itself, I'd ease off the entire upper spectrum (both 2-3.5kHz and 5-10kHz) and whack-a-mole at 550-750Hz, and whack another fat-boy (low Q) cut at 100Hz.

[Mr. Widget]

Does it appear I have some phase issues? Could room anomalies masquerade as phase errors?How could we tell by only looking at that frequency response graph?

Your highs do look terrible, but without knowing where the mic was placed even that is impossible to really evaluate. Beyond that, I can't give you any advice based on this relatively small amount of data.

If you want some diagnostic help, we would need several FR measurements taken at different distances with information about where the mics were placed... also shooting it with the midbass driver's phase inverted (use the I/O control panel to change it on the fly). It would also be useful to see your EQ settings.


Widget

[Zilch]

It would also be useful to see your EQ settings.Seems EQ = none, at this point. The blue EQ line is flat.

That's why I'm guessing the UHF is a compression driver with no compensation yet applied....

[boputnam]

Seems EQ = none, at this point. The blue EQ line is flat.Well now THAT would explain the "veil lifted" observation! :p

I'll stick with my EQ suggestions, above (in lieu of any autoanything...).

[Ian Mackenzie]

Ken mentioned in the other thread to took an average of measurements around the room for the balance. This maybe a clue but I agree we need for data.

Ian

[Mr. Widget]

Seems EQ = none, at this point. The blue EQ line is flat.

That's why I'm guessing the UHF is a compression driver with no compensation yet applied....I think you may be right on the EQ... I hadn't looked at that tiny picture too carefully... I am still using an earlier version of the DEQX software and it has a slightly different display.

As for his HF... it is a JBL 2425 with an aftermarket Be diaphragm on a mini Smith horn. Without info on where the mic is, we really can't judge it. Maybe he was way off axis in the vertical plane or maybe...?



I'll stick with my EQ suggestions, above (in lieu of any autoanything...).I'd be inclined to bump up the output on the midbass driver a couple of dB and then do a bit of "whack a mole" here and there... but only after I knew how the measurements were taken.


Widget

[boputnam]

... but only after I knew how the measurements were taken.Yea, there is that. I was figuring they were on-axis and in the "9-ft sweet spot" as per the display. :dont-know:

Back to my mole whacking...

[Robh3606]

You look to be down about 5/6db about 15K? Those are aftermarket Be diaphrams?? If you run the Ti's you see the same thing??

What exactly are those graphs?? They have the 9ft sweet spot on them but I don't get the driver balance or the roll off?? That's on axis with EQ?? Looks like no EQ and you should be able to do better on the driver balance. Also notice it's set for Max. Smoothing. How much is there is that 1/3 octave, 1/6th??? What does raw look like?? You have to feed us more than that graph and even then not knowing the DEXQ system doesn't help matters. Not like we can just make the same measurements on our own set-ups and compare.

Rob:)

[Mr. Widget]

You look to be down about 5/6db about 15K? Those are aftermarket Be diaphrams?? If you run the Ti's you see the same thing??Westlake factory installed the Be diaphragms... so I doubt Ken has ever heard the system with Ti diaphragms in it.



What exactly are those graphs?? They have the 9ft sweet spot on them but I don't get the driver balance or the roll off?? That's on axis with EQ?? Looks like no EQ and you should be able to do better on the driver balance. Also notice it's set for Max. Smoothing. How much is there is that 1/3 octave, 1/6th???Ken phoned a short while ago. Apparently the measurement was made after some equipment changes and so the amplifier balances need to be reset. The measurement is without any EQ and is taken from the listening position. As for 1/6 or 1/3 octave smoothing DEQX doesn't offer it... it offers a variable scale of smoothing from none to this... whatever that is.

Personally I find measuring a system from the listening position to be of little use... a single measurement on axis at a meter or two is more useful and a series of measurements including nearfield (0.25") of each driver is really needed to get a feel for the system. Then you can sort out what your speakers are doing and what the room is doing and try to fix them both independently.

Apparently Ken was originally concerned about the suck out around 50-60Hz... I told him that sort of thing is typical of a large loudspeaker put into a "normal" room. Depending on speaker placement, mic placement, and the room, you will see that sort of thing move up and down in frequency.


Widget

[Ken Pachkowsky]

Oh, I see he already replied.....

Thats it in a nutshell.

Ken

[Ian Mackenzie]

I was wondering if there is a loss pass filter acting on the small honr by mistake....

Ian

[boputnam]

...Apparently the measurement was made after some equipment changes and so the amplifier balances need to be reset. The measurement is without any EQ Hey, Ken...

Just curious how you've progressed with this. Got an update...?