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Guido
12-03-2003, 12:06 PM
Ralf and me started with the 4430 DIY:nutz: :nutz:

Guido
12-03-2003, 12:12 PM
Nice original Terminal Plate eh?:cool: :cool:

subwoof
12-03-2003, 05:48 PM
Hey - here's another 4430 DIY in progress....:)

It's a L220 with original LE14H-1 / PR15D and the 2425/2344.

The mate is mirror imaged and the new baffle is made of the same walnut veneer. These have only the sealing layer of finish applied.

The crossover is the 4435 model with the extra LF output so additional nearby subs can be added if desired.

Yes - those are new foilcals also...

sub

Earl K
12-03-2003, 06:37 PM
Very Nice !

Guido / Ralf - I do love the look of the crossover parts you have available to you.

SubWoof - that's still a mockup ? Tape, Yes / No ?

<> EarlK :)

subwoof
12-03-2003, 06:52 PM
YO...youse mockin' my up???

Yeah - I haven't mounted the components / cut out the horn baffle yet. Been to busy burying people lately....:(

I figured recycling a pair of L220 cabs was a bit easier than creating new ones and the footprint has a better SAF.

I will try substituting the 1400Nd's I have for testing but who knows the final result..

BTW - these *are* for sale should anyone have an interest. Also a pair of empty 4343's with crossovers.

Free ( well almost ) delivery around new years if near the I-81 corridor from NY to NC then to Kwest....:):):)

sub

4313B
12-03-2003, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by Earl K
Guido / Ralf - I do love the look of the crossover parts you have available to you.Yeah but the inductors are mounted vertical which means all the little electrons will have to attempt to run up one side and then risk falling down and tumbling over each other coming down the other side. It isn't going to be very pretty. Eventually many of them will be seriously hurt, maybe even killed, and then little electron juice puddles will leak out all over the place.

AudioGeek
12-03-2003, 07:44 PM
Hey sub -

Awesome idea with the L220 cabs, and they look great too! Let us know how they sound.

How much'll U be wanting for the pair?

Earl K
12-03-2003, 07:51 PM
:rotfl:

Hi Woof, No mockingbirds here, though they are rare and quite pretty . I love tape. (Gaffer) tape is my best friend . :D

I figured recycling a pair of L220 cabs was a bit easier than creating new ones and the footprint has a better SAF.

Nice idea. :thmbsup: Plus I appreciate the incorporation of the 2344, which has taken a little bit of a beating lately .

<. Earl K

Earl K
12-03-2003, 08:01 PM
"all the little electrons will have to attempt to run up one side and then risk falling down and tumbling over each other coming down the other side. It isn't going to be very pretty. Eventually many of them will be seriously hurt, maybe even killed,"

oh, oh ! :eek:

Think of poor Ian Mac: "Inductors can be, just so cruel" , and the "Moon-Boots" can't save him this time .

<> Earl K

Guido
12-04-2003, 04:19 AM
Originally posted by Giskard
Yeah but the inductors are mounted vertical which means all the little electrons will have to attempt to run up one side and then risk falling down and tumbling over each other coming down the other side. It isn't going to be very pretty. Eventually many of them will be seriously hurt, maybe even killed, and then little electron juice puddles will leak out all over the place.

Thats exactly the reason we did it;)
No mercy with these electrons:wave:

Ralf
12-04-2003, 05:49 AM
Originally posted by Giskard
Yeah but the inductors are mounted vertical which means all the little electrons will have to attempt to run up one side and then risk falling down and tumbling over each other coming down the other side. It isn't going to be very pretty. Eventually many of them will be seriously hurt, maybe even killed, and then little electron juice puddles will leak out all over the place.


But here is the solution:

We put a funnel-shaped collector under the Xover. This collector speeds up the electrons in a way, that gives a 2235 a sound like screwed in a horn. This construction was copied the first time in "back to the future". Also known as "flux generator"....:moon: :rockon2: :duck:

4313B
12-04-2003, 06:51 AM
Alrighty then!

I see you guys know how to get around the "obvious"!

Carry on ;)

:cheers:

Alex Lancaster
12-04-2003, 07:31 AM
Finally!!, You guys make some sense, I was worried.

Alex.

boputnam
12-04-2003, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by Giskard
Yeah but the inductors are mounted vertical which means all the little electrons will have to attempt to run up one side and then risk falling down and tumbling over each other coming down the other side. Yer goofy, Giskard... :screwy:

I think it will become widely known as The Electron Theme Park, and as word spreads far-and-wide in Electrondom it start perhaps a trend of new and ever-larger, and riskier Theme Parks with bigger inductor rides...

And, Subwoof - I wish ALL Foilcals were fastened-on that way! Would save a bunch of heartbreak. Beauty cabinets, dude. Beauty. :thmbsup:

4313B
12-04-2003, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by boputnam
I wish ALL Foilcals were fastened-on that way! Would save a bunch of heartbreak.Use double stick tape; I use the little 3M squares. Velcro works too, the little round buttons, use a speedbore to countersink them sufficiently.

boputnam
12-04-2003, 07:46 AM
:rotfl:

And, the more I look at subwoofs "baby cheeks" horn, I'm thinkin it too is attached that way... :nutz:

Ralf
12-04-2003, 07:52 AM
Originally posted by Alex Lancaster
Finally!!, You guys make some sense, I was worried.

Alex.

Yea! But nothing about the downcooled supraconductored Horn Driver which produces such high frequencies that cut off your ears....

Ralf
12-04-2003, 07:57 AM
Hey, maybe I`ve invented a new generation of high frequency driver at the moment, mhh?

Ralf
01-12-2004, 12:15 PM
Today 2 'new' 2344A and 2 2426H arrived here direct from JBL USA...

That`s what I got...

Now I can wait probably again 4 weeks...

:banghead: :biting: :bomb:

A higher power (my neighbours?) does not want that I build two 4430...

4313B
01-12-2004, 12:34 PM
Thats sucks.....

Ralf
01-12-2004, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by Giskard
Thats sucks.....

Well, I have a pastime with my 2245H boxes...Soon the day of the 4430 comes

Ralf
02-11-2004, 09:11 AM
Now I got a answer from JBL Germany about the broken 2344A. They said that there is no more horn in stock. I am to repair it. But they would give me a small discount. Insolence!

Could someone inquire JBL USA and confirm that there is really no more 2344?

Thank you for asking.

Greetings
Ralf

Mr. Widget
02-11-2004, 04:00 PM
Just called Northridge.

Sorry, but you are out of luck.

I don't know what type of plastic they are made out of, but if it is ABS or something similar you can wet the surface of the break with acetone or specialty ABS glue then reassemble the broken parts holding them firmly together for 30min. Let it set over night and it will be as strong as new. If it has a strong acrylic percentage you can do the same thing with methylene chloride, in a well ventilated area of course.

Good luck.

Widget

Ralf
02-11-2004, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Widget
Just called Northridge.

Sorry, but you are out of luck.

I don't know what type of plastic they are made out of, but if it is ABS or something similar you can wet the surface of the break with acetone or specialty ABS glue then reassemble the broken parts holding them firmly together for 30min. Let it set over night and it will be as strong as new. If it has a strong acrylic percentage you can do the same thing with methylene chloride, in a well ventilated area of course.

Good luck.

Widget

Hi Widget

Thank you for calling.

The broken off parts were not in the box. I will have to pour the flange with resin. I hope that it holds.

Greetings
Ralf

Ralf
02-11-2004, 07:19 PM
Perhaps is there someone from the forum, who has a horn remaining and he sells it to me?

Guido
02-12-2004, 12:40 AM
Again this "no longer in stock" shit!

Now we have to contact the bulgarians and start the production ot 1:1 copys.

Thats how JBL wants it!

Mr. Widget
02-12-2004, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by Ralf
Perhaps is there someone from the forum, who has a horn remaining and he sells it to me?

They are regularly on eBay. Scratched singles are always very inexpensive. Buy one of those, sand it a bit and give it a fresh paint job.

JBLnsince1959
02-12-2004, 08:37 AM
Hi Ralf:

Mr. Widget is right about ebay and the repair. If you find a pair from the US and need help getting them, let me know.:D

take care
rick

Ralf
02-12-2004, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by JBLnsince1959
Hi Ralf:

Mr. Widget is right about ebay and the repair. If you find a pair from the US and need help getting them, let me know.:D

take care
rick

At the moment on ebay is no 2344A. We`ll see.

Ralf
02-12-2004, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by Guido
Again this "no longer in stock" shit!

Now we have to contact the bulgarians and start the production ot 1:1 copys.



Guido, let`s do it.

Ralf
02-22-2004, 10:59 AM
Today I got a PM from subwoof. He sold me a 2344A and it is on the way. Jippi....the project goes on...

4313B
02-22-2004, 11:19 AM
Excellent!

subwoof, what method of shipping did you use? I might have to ship a pair of 2122H's to Germany.

Robh3606
02-22-2004, 12:38 PM
Hello Giskard

When the Tent was new I shipped a pair of 3107's to France and Ians 2122's to Australlia. In both cases I used the USPS with one of their express services. In both cases they went off without a hitch. You loose tracking outside the US so if you can live with that it works. Cheaper than the other alternatives at the time.

Rob:)

dieterj
02-22-2004, 02:53 PM
:D real fans buy there Jbl Hardware around the world..........
But shippingcost can be realy expensive:biting:

Greetings from Austria to one excellent forum
dieterj

Ralf
03-09-2004, 11:29 AM
Yea...
today I got subwoof`s horn.

Next week I will build the cabinets....

Ralf
04-16-2004, 11:08 AM
The cabinets are nearly finished. Next week I will begin the installation of the parts.

Guido measured and tightened the frequency networks that the frequency characteristic to 17kHz runs linear.

Starting from this frequency the horn within the upper range drops. In the original descriptions the 4430 goes to 16kHz (-3dB).

From where do the differences come? Did the drivers become better?

Or is the "A" version of the horn a little bit different to the original? Have does JBL under-floated? I am naturally pleased about it and I can hardly expect it to hear it....

Ralf

Ralf
05-11-2004, 10:01 AM
...a poor picture from the project

4313B
05-11-2004, 10:18 AM
"Starting from this frequency the horn within the upper range drops. In the original descriptions the 4430 goes to 16kHz (-3dB).

From where do the differences come? Did the drivers become better?"

Original specs were done with the 2421 compression driver running the aluminum diaphragm with the diamond pattern surround.

Ralf
08-31-2004, 02:19 PM
Jepp...

Ralf
08-31-2004, 02:20 PM
...

Ralf
08-31-2004, 02:27 PM
...

4313B
08-31-2004, 03:12 PM
Sehr Gut! :yes:

Guido
09-01-2004, 03:11 AM
Bombastic!
:cheers:

When will be the test? :coolness:

Figge
09-01-2004, 03:15 AM
WHOA!! they look factory built! infact even better! very nice job!

where are the bracings?

Ralf
09-01-2004, 04:29 AM
Originally posted by Guido
Bombastic!
:cheers:

When will be the test? :coolness:

Hi Guido,

I think the coming weekend is a good choice for testing? Even with the four 2245?

Mr. Widget
09-01-2004, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by Figge


where are the bracings?

I was wondering that too. Especially in the sub cabs in the other thread.

Ralf,

You will brace these cabinets won't you?

Widget

Ralf
09-01-2004, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by Mr. Widget
I was wondering that too. Especially in the sub cabs in the other thread.

Ralf,

You will brace these cabinets won't you?

Widget

Hi Mr. Widget,

the material is 1" MDF. I will see if it`s necessary. If it is I can add some later...

Mr. Widget
09-01-2004, 10:41 AM
You bet it's necessary! I would brace it even if it were 2" thick. Do yourself a favor and brace it now. Once the fiberglass is in there and the drivers are wired and mounted you won't want to bother.

The benefit of a non resonant cabinet is deeper and more controlled bass.

In my 1" thick 4355 cabinet I used something like 2 cu ft of hardwood bracing. It really makes a difference.

Widget

Ralf
09-01-2004, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by Mr. Widget
You bet it's necessary! I would brace it even if it were 2" thick. Do yourself a favor and brace it now. Once the fiberglass is in there and the drivers are wired and mounted you won't want to bother.

The benefit of a non resonant cabinet is deeper and more controlled bass.

In my 1" thick 4355 cabinet I used something like 2 cu ft of hardwood bracing. It really makes a difference.

Widget

Ok., Ok., I do it. Any suggestions or experiences how much braces I should screw inside?

John
09-01-2004, 11:03 AM
The last time i looked inside my B460 the bracing was on every panel. It looked like jbl used 2x4,s for the task,i bet 1/3 the weight of the empty B460 cabinet was made up by the bracing.:D

4313B
09-01-2004, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by Ralf
Ok., Ok., I do it. Any suggestions or experiences how much braces I should screw inside? At the absolute minimum a back to baffle brace and a side to side brace in the ~ center of the panels should be used. You should be able to get an idea of the panel bracing involved by looking in the Library.

http://lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/reference/technical/1983-subs/page5.jpg

http://lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/plans/1970s-kit.htm

Ralf
09-02-2004, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by Giskard
At the absolute minimum a back to baffle brace and a side to side brace in the ~ center of the panels should be used. You should be able to get an idea of the panel bracing involved by looking in the Library.

http://lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/reference/technical/1983-subs/page5.jpg

http://lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/plans/1970s-kit.htm

Thank you for your infos, Giskard.

Today I`ve ordered the wood for the bracing.
I think then nobody will carry the cabinets away...maybe the 4430 but not the 18".

still4given
09-02-2004, 01:18 PM
Hey Giskard,

I notice you refer to the library a lot. Is there an index somewhere that would help me find things in it without having to start a thread? That would be very helpful.

Thanks, Terry

4313B
09-03-2004, 06:41 AM
Ok! Ok! I'll stop referring to the Library. It seems to irritate people. :p

I certainly wouldn't worry about posting queries if I were you though. :)

Anyway, I could swear there used to be a Lansing Heritage Site Map that listed everything in the Library. The Audio Heritage Site Map doesn't. Don would be the man to ask.

johnaec
09-03-2004, 07:30 AM
Originally posted by Giskard
Anyway, I could swear there used to be a Lansing Heritage Site Map that listed everything in the Library. The Audio Heritage Site Map doesn't.Is this the link you're looking for - it appears to be the library site map as compared to the main site map:
http://www.lansingheritage.org/sitemap.htm

John

4313B
09-03-2004, 07:39 AM
Yep, when I tried it directly from a browser I got a DNS error. Thanks! :)

Hofmannhp
09-05-2004, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Widget
You bet it's necessary! I would brace it even if it were 2" thick. Do yourself a favor and brace it now. Once the fiberglass is in there and the drivers are wired and mounted you won't want to bother.

The benefit of a non resonant cabinet is deeper and more controlled bass.

In my 1" thick 4355 cabinet I used something like 2 cu ft of hardwood bracing. It really makes a difference.

Widget

Hi all, and Ralph...

take a look at the pdfs with the bracing......it's realy important.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2676

and Ralph....think of your 2344 on the pic of your 1.12.2004 thraed...this can also happen without driver bracing.

HP

Ralf
09-05-2004, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by Hofmannhp
Hi all, and Ralph...

take a look at the pdfs with the bracing......it's realy important.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2676

and Ralph....think of your 2344 on the pic of your 1.12.2004 thraed...this can also happen without driver bracing.

HP

Yes, I know. I will do it next week if I will get the wood...

Thanks

still4given
09-06-2004, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by johnaec
Is this the link you're looking for - it appears to be the library site map as compared to the main site map:
http://www.lansingheritage.org/sitemap.htm

John


aaaaahhhhhh,

Just added that link to my Favorites menu.

Thanks soooooo much!

Blessings, Terry

Ralf
09-06-2004, 06:21 PM
Today I got the wood for the bracing.
Puah...a lot of work, but the good news are:

THE FIRST 4430 IS COMPLETELY READY.

Guido
09-06-2004, 10:50 PM
How does it sound compared to your ole SENTRYs??

Let me know when will be the test party :cool:

And don't forget the lake party at friday :cool: :cool: :cool:

Ralf
09-07-2004, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by Guido
How does it sound compared to your ole SENTRYs??

Let me know when will be the test party :cool:

And don't forget the lake party at friday :cool: :cool: :cool:

Hi Guido,

no test bevore all is ready...I will first finish the second one AND the four 18"...I have also to motify the 5235. One 2245H is not reconed yet, the 15" of the 4430 are Alnico Versions. I have to recone the both 2225 to 2235H, so we can compare Ferrit to Alnico. At sunday I got the PAS audio 4002 PCA from Harry (2,4 kW...) Tests are possible now, if I will be ready at all...

Lake party? Nobody has told me :-(
Why you organize parties generally on fridays? I will be in Hamburg on friday. Don`t know if I will be here at the right time...
mmmh...we could take the 4430 and test it at the party...I could bring my little generator and a small coice of my equipment...mybe

Ralf

:smthsail: :dancin: :band: :banana:

Ralf
09-11-2004, 07:33 AM
Hier are the first two of the four 2245 compined with the 4430...4430 fullrange driven by a Crest CA6, 2245 cutoff 80Hz 18dB driven by a 2,4 kW PAS audio...the sound is abnormal...earthquake feeling...:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Zilch
09-11-2004, 10:25 AM
JBL recommends inverting 4430's when they are positioned high like that. :D

Yes, the whole thing....

johnaec
09-11-2004, 10:43 AM
Beautiful!

John

Audiobeer
09-12-2004, 07:06 AM
Nice Job!!!! :giant woody: Drooling mouth;

Ralf
09-12-2004, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by Zilch
JBL recommends inverting 4430's when they are positioned high like that. :D

Yes, the whole thing....

Hi Zilch,

you mean I should turn around the 4430 180 degrees? Then the 2235 is too far away from the 2245. ??? It could be better if I try the horizontal position for the 4430 (90 degrees), but 180 degrees?
mmh....can you explain these?

Zilch
09-12-2004, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by Ralf
You mean I should turn around the 4430 180 degrees?See the 4430 brochure, where:

"JBL has paid considerable attention to both the off-axis response and the total power response, and the network optimizes these parameters. While the response is smooth at all angles, the flattest response is, by design, on axis and above. This offers a greater number of listening positions when the system is mounted at or below ear level; for mounting above ear level, the system can be inverted to offer the same advantages."

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/pro-speakers/1984-4430-35.htm

You can see it in the published curves there.

If I were mounting them horizontal, I'd rotate the horns 90 degrees. I've seen it but never done it. I don't know what problems that creates with the mounting screw holes.

Whether having the woofers separated by inversion creates any problems, I don't know. Somebody else is gonna have to advise you on that. Remember that the 2235 in the 4430 carriers substantial program material up to 1000 Hz....

I have no clue why I remember this stuff, either. :(

sanpablo
06-13-2005, 10:37 AM
I will build one 4430.

Before starting, I would like to know how you replaced R201 L-pad 30O 25W

In France, it's impossible to find this JBL genuine part. Deutschland or USA ?

You replaced it by what?

Have you a plan of your final crossover ?

Thanks

Zilch
06-13-2005, 11:18 AM
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5209

See edited post in red on the last page. I ended up using the series section of a conventional L-Pad which varies from 0 to 8 ohms, where all the action is on the HF. Use a 16-Ohm L-Pad if you want more attenuation, but 8 is enough.

Using the parts specified, both controls set to "0" for flat response.

Being in Europe, you can probably get the proper Jantzen 0.04 mH inductor, L1, and avoid using the low value resistor in series with it. The Jantzen part number is #1318, 0.047 mH, 0.17 ohms. Unwind to 0.04 mH.

Guido & Ralf gonna have to tell you the specifics of this particular project. Reading it again, it looks like they used a 5235 active crossover in the system as well....

Guido
06-13-2005, 12:33 PM
It's simply a variable resistor. One with 22 Ohms will do and they are available.

Check my email to you!

Earl K
06-13-2005, 01:39 PM
- Don't you guys just run these pots wide open for "todays" music ?

- Do you ever attenuate UHF / for "yesterdays' musical styles" ( pre 70s' ) ?

- Anyways / both Zilches' & Guidos' suggestions have lots of merit .

- For those who like to live on the wild side ( & experiment a bit on the cheap ) /
Heres' a link for what I think should be a pair of decent standins (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=67807&item=5774409566)
( Assuming an approximate maximum attenuation of only 20%, the power handling of this part should not be an issue ) .

:p

Earl K
06-13-2005, 02:32 PM
- To help your search, here's an Ohmite cut-sheet for their wirewound rheostats .

- If buying new, I'd be considering their 25W , 25 or 35 ohm versions ( as closest to original spec. ).

- Here's a link to a local ( Canadian ) supplier (http://www.e-sonic.com/acc/products.aspx?partID=RHS25R&partIDExt=331&command=detail) to give you an idea of what you are after & what you should pay new ( if in North America ) .

:o:

Zilch
06-13-2005, 02:49 PM
- Don't you guys just run these pots wide open for "todays" music?Basically, yes. It's sittin' at about 2 ohms most of the time. Once set for the room, I rarely mess with it.

That's why I suggest that 8 ohms is plenty.... :)