A few 4412 questions

[AudioGeek]

Greetings, JBL-Heads! :wave:

I've been lurking about here for the past few days checking out this site, and I gotta say it's pretty cool - so I decided to register. (Thanks Don!)

So if I seem a bit JBL-challenged and ask too many nOOb questions, just let me know. ;)

I've been into audio gear/music since I was but a lad of 11 or 12, (42 now), as well as an on-again/off-again drummer. I've not owned JBL's except for a pair of L56's back in the day, (I've usually been an "East Coaster" of sorts - generally preferring sealed designs, electrostats, or ribbons for the domicile). However, I have heard and used my share of JBL's at friend's, and also in live settings with various bands I've played in, and in studios.

But having always liked the sound of their Studio Monitors, on Wednesday last, I lucked-out and found a pair of 4412's in pretty decent shape for - believe it or not - $175. + tax at one of my fave pro audio dealer's. At the time I called about them, the guy said they had some scratches on the cabs and that the grills were Ok. Also, one of the tweeter's are blown.

He said the shop would go ahead and order the 035TiA diaphram for no extra charge. I found out that the distributor was selling them for $92., so I figured it was a good deal. Then I drove 88 miles each way to go get 'em, but when I got there I saw that one grill is a 4412 with the logo strip missing and 4 of the 6 grill posts broken off. The other is a 4410 grill, again with 4 broken posts. Both grills are starting to get small holes on the corners.

But hey - at least they're blue and they fit!! :bouncy:

Q1: Will the 035TiA diaphram sound noticeably different than the OEM 035Ti? I noticed on another thread that some of the specs vary between these 2 versions. Should I get another new one for the other speaker so that they match sonically?

Q2: According to the Library here, they were produced from approx. 1986-95. Can I tell the year of manufacture from the serial #'s? (468495 & 466270)

Q3: Any suggestions for tweaks/improvements, ie: replacing the internal wiring, binding posts, drivers or x-overs with "better' stuff?

Q4: What to do about the grills?

The new diaphram should be here this week, but I've never installed one in this type of driver. The dist. says it's not a big deal, just use reasonable sense and don't "force" it into place, etc.

Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated, of course!

[subwoof]

Youre gonna love this....the 035Ti and 035tia differ in the coil mounting / terminal placement only. They can't be interchanged...:(

My reconer gave me that wonderful news after I bought a bunch on ebay...

[AudioGeek]

You have GOT to be kidding - now what'll I do? :mad: Are the whole tweeter units available from JBL? (Yeah RIGHT!) :banghead:

But, I talked to the dist. in NJ on Friday (Consolidated Audio), and they said it was interchangable. :die: And before that, I had talked to Northridge just to inquire about the retail price of replacement tweeters. He said I only needed a new diaphram, (MSRP $115.) and that they were now shipping the "A" version for the 035. I got the impression, or maybe he stated specifically(?), that the "A" diaphrams would work. :wtf:

I'll get on the horn to JBL again first thing tomorrow, (AND the dist. AND the dealer). :bash: At least if everything is NOT copacetic, I have the option of returning the 4412's to the dealer - but I don't want to have to do that.

Anyone got any 035's for sale??

[AudioGeek]

But I was thinking subwoof - why would they make a replacement part that doesn't interchange with what must be (or was) a very popular unit (the 035Ti)??

From what I understand, the TiA version is OEM on the current 4412A, but why wouldn't they back a unit that sold well for a decade? It was only 8 years ago that the non-A Studio Monitors were replaced - surely many of those tweeters have needed replacing?

:confused:

[Robh3606]

Ok

I am confused.:spin: The 035 has the terminals on opposite sides and the 035tia has them side by side. You can use either on the mag assembly?? Correct?? I thought it was just the cabinet mounting that was a problem. If that's all it is they will work with a baffle modification. You can enlarge a notch on one side. Then you can use both. Did you actually take a tweeter out to see what you have??

Rob:)

[AudioGeek]

Did you actually take a tweeter out to see what you have??

Not yet. I assumed they are the OEM Ti version. But I can take the blown one out now and check.

Thanks for the suggestion, Rob. Now that you mention it, I think it was the distributor that said something about the terminals being different. But he said the TiA will still work with the older assy.

If I have to cut a small space out to fit the terms, then so be it!

But sub is talking about the coil mounting, not just which side the terms are....:confused:

[Robh3606]

I have both as far as I know its the terminals only but I could be wrong. Best thing to do is just call JBL Pro Tech support. They will know for sure.

Rob:)

[subwoof]

Don't you just love progress...

According to my jbl guy ( who does a LOT of pro and consumer stuff ) the actual coil mounting tabs are different...

Take a browse thru this PDF file - this is what a service center looks at when determining the correct part.

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Goes%20Into%20List/03%20Goes%20Into%20List.pdf

In many cases concerning the larger 12 and 15" pro models, the kits are interchangeable.

But I have found that EACH consumer item is on it's own little planet. Assuming it hasn't been discontinued or the price gone up 400% in a year..

And BTW - if a dealer sold you a repair part, they are in violation of the dealer agreement and could be spanked. The whole point of "authorized service" is to make sure the right part is ordered, installed, tested and delivered to the user.

These are NOT "kitchen counter" repairs. A number of technical specs have to be verified and real test equipment used to do it.

sub

[subwoof]

examples:

035Ti

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Studio%20Monitor%20Series/4412LR.pdf

035Tia

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Studio%20Monitor%20Series/4408.pdf

If they were interchangeable, and the 035Tia was an upgrade, why wouldn't the service sheet recommend the newer one??

It's logic Mr spock...:)

[AudioGeek]

Hey Rob - good news! Looks like the blown unit is a TiA after all. wOOt!! :rockon2:

So apparently either this whole tweeter unit has been replaced before or this particular 4412 (#468495) is one of the later production before they updated them to 4412A.

Hmmm. I guess that means I could put the 4412A x-overs in too...the 128H-1 and 104H-2 being the same for both the A and non-A models, correct? (That is: assuming the A x-overs were an improvement.)

Or would there be an issue because of the trim pots on these 4412's?

Now I'll pull the functioning tweet out to make sure which IT is.

[Robh3606]

Hey Sub, Audiogeek

Just pulled them and Sub the terminals are different?? I have a male and a female on the 035ti. Same as the 035tia size maybe they look the same? Polarity maybe??

Subs right though they should have done right by you and proabably will when you tell them whats up.

Damn those magnets are strong!:banghead: 2ft away and I can bend the screen image!

Rob :)

[subwoof]

HEY - peruse this web page...it has a lot of the JBL tech info for the monitors.

you will notice the 4412A used a different tweeter 052Ti


....and schematics of crossovers are there too....

http://www.jblproservice.com/navigation/Studio%20Monitor%20Series.html

sub

[AudioGeek]

sub -

Thanks. I had already DL'ed that .pdf for the 4412 the other day, but not for the 4412A. But you are correct about the tweeters being the 052. My bad. I knew they were different from the A's to non-A's, but for some unknown reason I was thinking 035Ti>035TiA, instead of 035>052. :rolleyes:

DUH! :banghead: Musta had a brain-fart.

And I see what you mean on the different part #'s for the Ti & TiA. There's also a substantial price difference as well - the Ti version is 1/3 again more zoot! :spchless:

I concur with Rob on the M/F terms on the TiA. Thanks for checking.

But anyway, I know now that both of them are the A vers. Yippie!

As far as the dealer, he did offer to install the diaphram for me if I wanted to wait to pick them up after they got the part in. But I wanted to get these here to fire up, to try in this room before I committed to buying. He also said if I wanted, I could ship him the tweeter unit and they'd install it for me.

Phew! I'm glad THAT little mystery worked out...

Does anyone know about the serial #'s, or was JBL not so tidy about that? And have any of you ever tweaked the SM series, as I mentioned at the beginning?