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Wardsweb
09-15-2006, 05:45 PM
In the picture below you will see four JBL drivers. The top two are 2225 that have been reconed 2235H. The bottom two are 2235H that have been refoamed. They were all done by the same shop, so why do the top two have a black sprayed on something on the back of the cones and why do the refoams each have different glue? You would think they would all look the same. Am I missing something here?

http://wardsweb.org/misc/2235H.jpg

Guido
09-15-2006, 06:19 PM
Everything is ok!

Seems that the lower right one have an older cone assembly which originally used another glue.

Nice set :D

Wardsweb
09-15-2006, 06:31 PM
So is the black stuff the glue on the first two?

boputnam
09-15-2006, 07:09 PM
If the 2225 were done with JBL kits, then that is how they came from the factory - the surround is integral to the cone assembly. Therefore, looks OK to me. They are identical. Possibly the "black" you refer to is a facing JBL adds to improve the bonding of the surround with the cone edge. edgewound would know, certainly.

Plug and play, I'd say...

mikebake
09-15-2006, 09:34 PM
Watchaya gonna do with 'em?

GordonW
09-16-2006, 10:10 AM
The black stuff is Moyen glue. The brown stuff is Bostik glue. JBL used both pretty much interchangably (ie, one substitutes for the other, without any ill effects).

I wouldn't sweat it even a minute. Should work the same.

Regards,
Gordon.

Wardsweb
09-17-2006, 07:02 PM
Watchaya gonna do with 'em?
These will replace the Altec 416-8C drivers in the "Widget Cabinets". Hoping to get a better bass responce with these.

ds23man
10-06-2006, 01:52 PM
Hello,

I'm new here, I worked in the prof audio scene and reconed a lot of JBL pro speakers. The original speakerframes are glued with the black glue. In the JBL recone kits, the brown glue is provided. This is always the way to see if an frame is reconed or not.

Greetings,

G

edgewound
10-06-2006, 02:10 PM
Hello,

I'm new here, I worked in the prof audio scene and reconed a lot of JBL pro speakers. The original speakerframes are glued with the black glue. In the JBL recone kits, the brown glue is provided. This is always the way to see if an frame is reconed or not.

Greetings,

G

Well....not really....BTW, welcome to the forum...we learn stuff around here most everyday.

If you were JBL authorized service and have been factory trained...and are up to speed on the JBL kits, you'd know that current recone kits are shipped with black CP Moyen glue.

Used to be...on the production line of old...pre-VGC kits and foam surround kits would get brown bostik on the frame and spider landing. Brown glue was used with the cork gaskets, black glue with black foam gaskets. A tube of glue was supplied in the kit, and black bostik dustcap glue was purchased separately from parts dept. Then, to speed up production, cyanoacrylate replaced brown bostik on the spider and some foam surround speakers on the frame....think 128H-1

VGC drivers originally used 3M 1300L dyed black....it is a tougher adhesive that sticks better to the crinkle finish on the VGC driver frames. The older models still used brown bostik on the surround and clear cyano on the spider land and Loctite Black Max on the dustdomes.

Black CP Moyen in now shipped with all kits. It's used on the surround while cyano is used on the spider and dustdome on the production line.

Also FYI....the black and brown bostik are the same glue....brown dyed black. They are NOT interchangeable with the CP Moyen black or the 3M 1300L. A VGC driver might fail when used with bostik because it's not as strong or heat tolerant. The reverse can be done though, and is now.

mikebake
10-06-2006, 02:45 PM
These will replace the Altec 416-8C drivers in the "Widget Cabinets". Hoping to get a better bass responce with these.
Hmmm, you mean more, or deeper, bass? I have heard both of these drivers. One thing for sure, you will hear a difference.

ds23man
10-07-2006, 03:54 AM
Well....not really....BTW, welcome to the forum...we learn stuff around here most everyday.

If you were JBL authorized service and have been factory trained...and are up to speed on the JBL kits, you'd know that current recone kits are shipped with black CP Moyen glue.

Used to be...on the production line of old...pre-VGC kits and foam surround kits would get brown bostik on the frame and spider landing. Brown glue was used with the cork gaskets, black glue with black foam gaskets. A tube of glue was supplied in the kit, and black bostik dustcap glue was purchased separately from parts dept. Then, to speed up production, cyanoacrylate replaced brown bostik on the spider and some foam surround speakers on the frame....think 128H-1

VGC drivers originally used 3M 1300L dyed black....it is a tougher adhesive that sticks better to the crinkle finish on the VGC driver frames. The older models still used brown bostik on the surround and clear cyano on the spider land and Loctite Black Max on the dustdomes.

Black CP Moyen in now shipped with all kits. It's used on the surround while cyano is used on the spider and dustdome on the production line.

Also FYI....the black and brown bostik are the same glue....brown dyed black. They are NOT interchangeable with the CP Moyen black or the 3M 1300L. A VGC driver might fail when used with bostik because it's not as strong or heat tolerant. The reverse can be done though, and is now.

I did a lot reconing, E series, K series, 2225 and 2235 ( I think I did hundreds of them). All the new cones came with the brown glue, last year I did 4 2235's also suplied with brown glue. What I mean is, a original cone can be distingished because the factory always used black glue for the dustdome, almost everybody used the brown glue for this job. RCF did not bother to put any glue with their recones.

GRG

edgewound
10-07-2006, 08:24 PM
I did a lot reconing, E series, K series, 2225 and 2235 ( I think I did hundreds of them). All the new cones came with the brown glue, last year I did 4 2235's also suplied with brown glue. What I mean is, a original cone can be distingished because the factory always used black glue for the dustdome, almost everybody used the brown glue for this job. RCF did not bother to put any glue with their recones.

GRG

Yes...the factory always used the black glue for the dust domes...and so should the reconer, because that's how we are factory trained.

A properly reconed speaker shouldn't look like a reconed speaker....It should look like it came off the production line.

Premium speakers deserve premium repair work.

ds23man
10-08-2006, 01:41 AM
Yes...the factory always used the black glue for the dust domes...and so should the reconer, because that's how we are factory trained.

A properly reconed speaker shouldn't look like a reconed speaker....It should look like it came off the production line.

Premium speakers deserve premium repair work.

All PA companies here in Europe do their reconing themselves! There was a period here in Holland with a official JBL importer which did'nt had the knowledge and manpower to do reconing. Every PA company here in Holland which used JBL components, was also a official JBL pro dealer and got the recones very easy. All my reconing work never failed, even after years of abuse in the field, the main problem was that the front suspension of the E140 cracked after a couple of years pounding with Carver PM 1.5's and Carver PT2400's. And of course a faulty amp ( DC) gave a nice campfire. About black glue for the dustdome, it would have been nice if this could be bought at the official importer, they never did. Nowadays it is very ease with the internet to get all sort of suplies from all over the world, back then ( 80's and 90's), you was completely dependend from the official importer. We had in our company a mere 200 15" , 150 12" and 100 1" drivers in hour rental stock.

GRG

ds23man
10-08-2006, 04:29 AM
In Holland is every JBL Pro dealer a official reconer, without any official training or support! Maybe it is in the US different?? It is always the same with American manufactures, homemarket is supported very well, Europe? Nah do not bother, give them spareparts and scematics and they will be fine!

GRG

edgewound
10-09-2006, 04:28 PM
In Holland is every JBL Pro dealer a official reconer, without any official training or support! Maybe it is in the US different?? It is always the same with American manufactures, homemarket is supported very well, Europe? Nah do not bother, give them spareparts and scematics and they will be fine!

GRG

Hmmm....very interesting...no training or support in Europe.

Here in the US we have to go through factory training to become a Service Agency. I'm surprised the importer at least isn't required to train reconers.

It sounds like you've taken care with your repairs and that's a good thing. Most US touring companies that are affiliated with JBL do their own reconing too, but not for outside customers...only their own inventory...unless they're a JBL Retail dealer too and Authorized Service .

Thanks for putting your location in your avatar...it makes for clearer communication and understanding. I didn't intend to come off as arrogant to you. If I did, please accept my apology.

Thanks.

Zilch
10-09-2006, 04:44 PM
Alas, poor Zero had but three posts before the new rule went into effect.... :(

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/member.php?u=3759

[Perhaps, with special dispensation.... :dont-know]

ds23man
10-10-2006, 05:56 AM
Hmmm....very interesting...no training or support in Europe.

Here in the US we have to go through factory training to become a Service Agency. I'm surprised the importer at least isn't required to train reconers.

It sounds like you've taken care with your repairs and that's a good thing. Most US touring companies that are affiliated with JBL do their own reconing too, but not for outside customers...only their own inventory...unless they're a JBL Retail dealer too and Authorized Service .

Thanks for putting your location in your avatar...it makes for clearer communication and understanding. I didn't intend to come off as arrogant to you. If I did, please accept my apology.

Thanks.

No problem.

Over here it was impossible to get EV recones, you had to send the speakers to the importer, who reconed them for a very high price. So everybody bought their EV recones in Germany. That's the nice thing of Europe a neighbour country is not far away!

Greetings,

Gerhard