going to look at pair 4410 s tomorrow

[SEAWOLF97]

any specifics that I should look for ? be aware of ? are these left and rights ?

his ad:
JBL 4410 studio monitors - $350Vintage JBL 4410 studio monitors in mint condition.$350.00

[clmrt]

Port and Starboard

[grumpy]

woofer foam deterioration, crunched domes, cabinet damage, l-pad scratchy-ness,
"custom" mounting holes, grill cloth or frame damage, input terminal condition, ...
Might give them a listen as well, if possible (all drivers working). -grumpy

[Zilch]

Yup, those are a mirror-image pair.

A Zilchster favorite: accurate, yet somehow "warm" sounding.

[SEAWOLF97]

you seem very knowledgeable about this model , is the price in the "ballpark" ?? , in your opinion ?

[Zilch]

That's the high end. They should be in VERY nice condition for $350....

[SEAWOLF97]

I will push for $275-$300, IF they are in great condition.
I have L36's for rears. Are the 4410 similar in size ? My big Denon receiver (110wpc) should have no problem with the 4410 as mains...Are they close enough to the L36s in efficiency to provide balanced volume ?

Owner says surrounds NOT FOAM , but sort of a plasticised fabric...is this correct ?

[Zilch]

I don't think so. Let me look.

Woofs are foam, beautiful little mids are cloth.

It'll cost $60 to $100 to have the proper foam surrounds installed on the woofers if they are wrong.

You'll have to check the specs for dimensions. They are about the same size, yes.

The efficiency should not be an issue. You set the level separately for the rears and mains in most systems....

[SEAWOLF97]

went out to see the 4410s today. They are pristine. I would rate them 99.95 perfect. The only flaw I could find was a grill post had broken off in the rubber gasket. It still fits tight with only 5 holding. The wood was very dry and really soaked up the lemon oil.
The drivers were as new, balance controls silky and the cabinets and grills were fantastic. They came from a loving home. If they were on the self in a retail store, I would rate them as new.

Offered $250 and he accepted.
Just hooked up at home.....WOW !! those titanium tweeters are sure sweet. Plenty of bass. No need for a subwoofer, and they blend with the L36 rears very nicely.
Thanks all for the help and encouragement.

Which is L and which is R ?

[Zilch]

Oh, man, you did very nicely getting those beauties, Seawolf.

I think I'd play them vertical with the ports inboard for starters.

THEN, you can spend the next week or so trying out alternative positions.... :D

New grilles may still be available through JBL Pro parts if you want them "mint."

Though I've never tried it, it may be possible to pin the post back onto the frame.

Here's the specs:

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Studio%20Monitor%20Series/4410LR.pdf

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/4410.pdf

[SEAWOLF97]

only had the 4410s for 6 hours and I love 'em already. Very open and airy. effortless , sounds like they are loafing around , capable of much more than you currently are hearing.
Picking up new nuances in the same music I've heard for years. It is the sound I used to hear in stereo demo rooms and always wished my system sounded that way..........For the first time, turning off the L36 rears. There is just that much difference in the 2 models and the 4410 is just that much better.

On the way to see the 4410's, stopped at GW. Picked up a nice pair of Infinity RSe ' s , good cabinets and grills.(EMIT tweeters) ..need foam....$5, ...and pair of Advent mini's that need 1 grill for $5.

[billyboyJBL]

seawolf , i think zilch is on to somethin with the repinning idea . i have done that on a pair of l100t,4408's and my 4412's as well . all worked great . super glue was the ticket for me ,lay the frame on a flat surface ,carefully dig the broken post out,match it up and then the glue. i let dry for several hours just in case,none of mine have failed.:applaud:

[SEAWOLF97]

and it worked perfectly. thanx.

Any idea how far off the floor would be optimal ? Thinking of making temp stands out of stacked books until I get correct hight and then make permanent ones. What is a good starting elevation ?

prior owner had controls flat on speakers and music source. Is that how you guys set them or "set for listening pleasure"??

[SEAWOLF97]

make some 10in high stands from a pair of defunct Braun speakers. sounds about right. Got a chance to listen at a higher level today ( the ole'Lady went shopping), geeze they are nice. Never expected 10in LF to sound that good.

Tested out my new $5 Infinity RSe's. No treble !!! those famous EMIT tweeters produced nothing !! then turned them around and guess what...the tweeters have fuses on the rear and both were blown. replaced fuses and sound great. Someone donated to GW for 25 cents worth of fuses !!

here is what they are (not my auction)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=001&item=110030050691&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

[Zilch]

prior owner had controls flat on speakers and music source. Is that how you guys set them or "set for listening pleasure"??I set 'em flat.

If RTA says that's wrong, I have a dilemma.

[Don't MAKE me measure them, now, and upset the equilibrium here.... :p ]

[LowPhreak]

Any idea how far off the floor would be optimal ? Thinking of making temp stands out of stacked books until I get correct hight and then make permanent ones. What is a good starting elevation ?

prior owner had controls flat on speakers and music source. Is that how you guys set them or "set for listening pleasure"??

My 4412's are mounted horizontally on 26.5" stands, angled toward the listening position, woofers outside. I like the Mid pots set at -1 or -1.5, and the High pots at -.5 or -1. Each port has 95 drinking straws cut to the length of the port, (this took much experimentation and listening sessions!)

YMMV

[SEAWOLF97]

drinking straw phenomena , what is the effect ?

was researching L65's and they recommend an old dirty sock.......

I'm ancient and need more highs ( from my speakers ) and set everything at "+". although the titanium tweeter is so good that I may have to modify that behavior.

[LowPhreak]

There are other ways to do it, but I like using the straws because they allow for some air to pass across the entire area of the port, and you can 'fine tune' the air restriction to get closer to the bass response you want without having to EQ.

It helps to smooth out the response curve, (with the 4412's I get an in-room dip around 60Hz compared to the 40, 50, 80, and 100Hz points) while helping to tone down the port noise at higher dB levels. At the same time, it doesn't turn the response completely into a sealed 12dB/oct roll-off.

EDIT: Here's a bit on this from several months ago:


The use of straws is well documented and IG/COF on the S&V forum (their resident guru) swears that in some instances they reduce port turbulance and it's distortions (with measurements to back it up). He always notes that they must not be accordion pleat straws.
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=9215&page=5

...and the relevant response graph (provided by His Giskard-ness) where Red is 4412 standard open-port response; Green is port blocked. Don't ask what White is, it'll just make you spend mo' $$ :spin: :

[SEAWOLF97]

a spare wad of acoustic foam , maybe bass was a little smoother.

another subject: I had 3 little spots on the side of 1 speaker cabinet that looked like Coca-Cola splatters. Could not scrape off with my fingernail.
Then read a post here about using toothpaste to clean cup circles. Tried it and WOW , works great. !!

[LowPhreak]

Well you gotta try it to see if you like the sound, eh? :)

I've never used the toothpaste trick but if it works, it works!

[SEAWOLF97]

these are the best speakers that I've owned. Much better than my L100s. On Mr.Zilchs advise, I added SW support as the 4410 is rated to 40hz.
with 2 ten inch subs (rated 27hz) it is just an awesome setup.
I know most of you like "the big iron", but for a smaller living room and on a fixed budget, this combo is about the best "bang for the buck".

Hf and MF is unbeatable. Got stands and they are up about 10in.

As someone else predicted, played for 2 weeks with placement, height, orientation, ports,etc. It was well worth it.

side note...recently 2 auctions on eBay, 1 for 4410 LF and 1 for 4410 HF. The 4 drivers sold for more than I paid for the 2 complete speakers !!!

[Titanium Dome]

Happy about this! :yes:


these are the best speakers that I've owned. Much better than my L100s. On Mr.Zilchs advise, I added SW support as the 4410 is rated to 40hz.
with 2 ten inch subs (rated 27hz) it is just an awesome setup.
I know most of you like "the big iron", but for a smaller living room and on a fixed budget, this combo is about the best "bang for the buck".

Hf and MF is unbeatable. Got stands and they are up about 10in.

As someone else predicted, played for 2 weeks with placement, height, orientation, ports,etc. It was well worth it.

Not happy about this. :no: (More and more breaking up of complete systems)


side note...recently 2 auctions on eBay, 1 for 4410 LF and 1 for 4410 HF. The 4 drivers sold for more than I paid for the 2 complete speakers !!!

[SEAWOLF97]

that I've put my beloved Ohm Walsh's into storage. They are also amazing, and very attractive. Too many speakers, not enough room or ears.:(

[LowPhreak]

As someone else predicted, played for 2 weeks with placement, height, orientation, ports,etc. It was well worth it.


I would suggest even further placement experimentation, with the help of test tones for the bass since you have a separate sub.

The RealTraps Test Tone CD (http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm) is better than most, because it has tones from 10Hz-300Hz in 1Hz increments (!) instead of just 1/3 or 1/6 octave-spaced tones. You can DL the file and then burn it onto a CD. This definitely ranks as a "w00t!" because it actually works...and it's free.

:applaud:

It has a blank, printable frequency response graph sheet - for your test-tone plotting plea-sha! :deal:

Also, DL ModeCalc (http://www.realtraps.com/modecalc.htm) to see where your room nodes are. Very easy to use, just enter in the WxLxH dimensions of your room and you'll get a graphic report.

Believe me, expending some time/effort in adjusting speaker position, room treatments, and/or EQ'ing will pay off tremendously.


:dj-party:

[Zilch]

It has a blank, printable frequency response graph sheet - for your test-tone plotting plea-sha! :deal:Folks here are having difficulty finding semi-log paper for plotting frequency response data.

Who's got a link to a full-spectrum audio sheet (landscape) we can all download or print?

[grumpy]

Not standard issue at college bookstores anymore? Sheesh. :blink: -grumpy

[Phil H]

Folks here are having difficulty finding semi-log paper for plotting frequency response data.

Who's got a link to a full-spectrum audio sheet (landscape) we can all download or print?Zilch,
Are you looking for semi-log paper or is full-spectrum audio sheet different? Programs like Excel do a fair job of log and semi-log graphs. Here are some links for printable graph paper that may help.
http://www.mathematicshelpcentral.com/graph_paper.htm
http://www.pdfpad.com/graphpaper/
http://www.csun.edu/~vceed002/ref/measurement/data/graph_paper.html

[Zilch]

Are you looking for semi-log paper or is full-spectrum audio sheet different?Thanks, Phil.

The 4-cycle does it, 10 Hz out to 100 kHz.

[Allegedly, we need that.... :p ]

[LowPhreak]

Folks here are having difficulty finding semi-log paper for plotting frequency response data.


I just took the one from RealTraps above and extended it x3 out to 30kHz. After all, it's only 'log'....