im lost: l88 & l166 questions...

[rotormotor]

Hey everyone... first off just wanted to introduce myself. Maybe 10 years ago i picked up a pair of l88's from a friend for 15 bucks if i remember correctly :) . theyve been the workhorses that have seen every bit of media ive enjoyed over the last 10 years. they were setup as my fronts for my 5.1 system for a long time. about a year ago i began transitioning back to vinyl, and my sony-digi-reciever wasnt cutting it, so i had my old sony STR-V7 made useable once again by the local vintage stereo shop. anyway i blew some hard earned cash on some Polk lsi9's for the 5.1 system, and separated the two systems. Long story short ive got the 150 watt sony V7 driving the l88's. From what i can tell its a decent speaker, but sounds a bit muddy and vague to me (even after fiddling with the crossover knob on the back). on the same note, if i play the same stuff through the digi setup with the lsi9's everything feels lifeless, flat, and rather "clinical" for lack of a better word.

anyway the first reason im here is to ask for your oppinions on the l88's and the V7 amp. im looking to upgrade to some L100's, L166's or some studio monitor equivalants with the same footprint.

The second order of business would be to ask you guys, how far can i take the sony V7 before i end up with the sound equivalant of "diminshing returns"?

And the last thing i wanted to ask about are the L166's and L100's. Ive been searching on this board for some time, and the more i dig the more i realize that there seem to be ENDLESS iterations of these speakers and studio monitor's that seem to have the same the same general setup (3 way with a 12" woofer), with nearly the same dimentions, and seemingly many of the same drivers as eachother. Ive narrowed my next progression in speakers to L100's or L166's... but for what reason im not sure. can anyone shed some light on the various itterations of these speakers, and their pros and cons? Thanks so much for your time, and i look forward to this addiction that is JBL. :D -Heath

[JBLRaiser]

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/home-speakers/home-speakers.htm

Everything else is opinion and believe me, there are plenty here. Some will tell you they love the L100's, others the L166's. But, if you are into sonic measurements, which certainly plays a part in listening enjoyment, that page and others on this site will help guide you.

[johnaec]

L166 12" LF uses a foam surround for more extended and smoother bass than the corrugated surrounds of the plain L100 series, but the foam deteriorates in about 20 years and often needs to be replaced on older speakers.

The L100T and T3 are completely different from the plain L100 series, and a substantial jump up in fidelity, though the cabinets are taller than the other ones.

John

[Zilch]

L88 has no midrange driver, and the woofer must play the midrange up to 2 kHz. That's what you're hearing. An upgrade kit adding the midrange driver was offered.

The many iterations of the L100 three-way "formula" have a characteristic inaccurate voicing found to be highly saleable in the consumer market (below).

Professional derivatives of L100 were dubbed "Control" monitors as distinct from more accurately voiced "Studio" monitors. Read about it here:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4408

[rotormotor]

L88 has no midrange driver, and the woofer must play the midrange up to 2 kHz. That's what you're hearing. An upgrade kit adding the midrange driver was offered.

The many iterations of the L100 three-way "formula" have a characteristic inaccurate voicing found to be highly saleable in the consumer market (below).

Professional derivatives of L100 were dubbed "Control" monitors as distinct from more accurately voiced "Studio" monitors. Read about it here:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4408
i thought the upgrade was only for the l88 plus with the blanking plate. ive got the earlier version with the le-20, and im not sure what woofer it has. the JBL label is missing from the woofers.... id guess a 123a but the cone is not white?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/rotormotor/DSC01855.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/rotormotor/DSC01856.jpg

anyway, they are decent speakers but they only go so far. what are the differences between the l166 horizons and l100 century. while im interested in technical specs, im more interested in people who have had a chance to a/b compare them and can describe their strengths/weaknesses/ and the overall "gestalt" of each speaker. also if anyone could shed some light on my sony V7, and how you would feel about that amp powering either of those speakers. at this time im not quite ready to upgrade the amp but its also a possiblilty.

[rotormotor]

oops double post

[Zilch]

Is that a metal dome on the woofer?

I'll look in the dungeon tomorrow and see if my L88s are "plus" or not, and what color the cones are.

I believe I recall mention that early 123As had black cones.

I just checked a white D123A-1 and it has "21005P" on the back, though the "5" is upside down on mine, making it extremely rare and valuable, no doubt. :p

[No red wax seals, tho.... :( ]

[rotormotor]

Is that a metal dome on the woofer?

I'll look in the dungeon tomorrow and see if my L88s are "plus" or not, and what color the cones are.

I believe I recall mention that early 123As had black cones.

I just checked a white D123A-1 and it has "21005P" on the back, though the "5" is upside down on mine, making it extremely rare and valuable, no doubt. :p

[No red wax seals, tho.... :( ] so i can assume this is an older 123-a with a black cone? (no the caps are paper).


PS Zilch... i just noticed youre in berkeley... id bet you anything im about 10 minutes from you. its a small world afterall ;) . speaking of berkeley, ive got remember to head in to the soundwell tomorow and have them "redo" their "fix it" job on my V7 and record player... ive never had problems with their repairs before but this time im less than happy. :(

[Zilch]

Yup, and forum regulars jus' KNOW what's comin' next.... :p

[Zilch]

PS Zilch... i just noticed youre in berkeley... id bet you anything im about 10 minutes from you.Send me a PM with your phone number. Once I get a little further with this, a visit to Zilchlab may be in order. :thmbsup:

A clue to what's happening here:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=12036

[Zilch]

Initial work with one L88 led me to drag out a second, this one with white cone.

I'd say your money would be better spent upgrading your L88s. That done, they may very well be better than anything you're contemplating.

Time to come listen. Bring yours, and we'll test 'em in comparison. :thmbsup:

Left, green. (The black one.)
Right, blue.
Both summed, orchid.

I forget what the red is; the bass under some unknown condition earlier today, apparently; I was messin' with box damping.

That's 5 dB/major divison, BTW. They're within +/- 1.5 dB from 300 Hz to 20 kHz, unsmoothed.

[Pretty good, if you happen to like flat.... ;) ]

[johnaec]

They're within +/- 1.5 dB from 400 Hz to 20 kHz, unsmoothed.Which HF driver is on that horn, Zilch, and what are you using for a crossover?

John

[Zilch]

Hi, John!

I just slammed these together to see what 123A-1 would do in a closed box.

More curves on normal 10 dB scale over in DIY:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=122946#post122946

See particularly #11, bottom, there.

BMS 4552-8 Mylar Neodymium with thread-on adapler and JBL 3120A on full boost with 10 dB fixed padding plus an additional adjustable L-Pad.

Mylar I can play this "hot" and have it still sound good. For rolled-off VHF, just kick the boost back to mid.

[It was a genuine "Holy SHIT" moment when I hooked them up.... :p ]