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View Full Version : Are JBL Studio L890s nice to listen?



marcus_helsinki
08-31-2006, 10:50 AM
I have had MRV-308s for a quite long a time, and they sound nice&soft. They are nice also while listening long periods with moderate levels. Have you listened to L890, I have had no possibility yet, because they have just arrived in Europe... and the dealers are not eager to take it in their small listening rooms...

Markku

Titanium Dome
08-31-2006, 10:54 AM
We've been discussing this a while, and you'll find some information here:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=7115

In the second half of the thread, member MJC writes about his experience owning a pair of L890s. :yes: Check it out.

marcus_helsinki
08-31-2006, 11:01 AM
I'll read some more there, already read some... And if I get a chance to listen to...
Does anyone know where to find measurements from my old JBL MRV308s and if not,which kind of an equipment would be optimal (precise enough but cheapest possible) for making frequency measurements?

Titanium Dome
08-31-2006, 11:07 AM
Some basic info is found here, including specifications:

http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical%20Sheet/MRV308%20ts.pdf

marcus_helsinki
08-31-2006, 11:14 AM
that information is very useful (I found it earlier from this forum), I found out that MRVs are two-way even if they have 165 and 200 mm woofers!

But they may be so old that frequency response curves are hard to found.

But who has listened to L890:s, are their tweeters nice for ears. E.g. B&W 804:s tweeters would destroy my ears while the tweeters of MRV-308:s, which are made of Titanium, are the frendliest I have found.

Markku

Valentin
08-31-2006, 04:28 PM
try the jbl pro LSR6332
very nice and soft titanium tweeter since it was made for studio hearing for many hours with out geting tierd
i have the and they are great

marcus_helsinki
09-01-2006, 12:01 AM
I have titanium composite tweeters in my MRV308s, such are also in the LSR6332.
It is said in the manual of LSR6332 that that kind of tweeters are especially good for long periods of listening for ears.
The frequency response of LSR6332 seems to be very linear. The pricing is relatively high, and perhaps a subwoofer is needed.
There are all-titanium and Mylar tweeters in L890, I don't know whether these are as nice to listen for hours.

One questin also I am interested in: what is the basic difference between studio monitors and home-hifi? Do studio monitors play well also with low sound levels, e.g. at 60 dB?

Valentin
09-01-2006, 08:40 AM
they have less level of compresion and distortion than comon consumer pruducts.
they sound very nice at all levels with out changing with volume

very nice monitors specialy in the midrange

MJC
09-02-2006, 05:59 AM
But who has listened to L890:s, are their tweeters nice for ears. E.g. B&W 804:s tweeters would destroy my ears while the tweeters of MRV-308:s, which are made of Titanium, are the frendliest I have found.

Markku
The sound from the 890 tweeters is nothing short of excellent, as its entire range. Clean, clear not fatiguing at all. I've been used to listening to aluminium tweeters for 28 years(very nice), but the titanium is even better.

marcus_helsinki
09-03-2006, 11:54 AM
say they that is the order, titanium is better than aluminium and the expensive beryllium better than titanium. Beryllium is said to have less distortion than titanium, and ...

I also read that metal tweeters could have "ringing" i.e. resonance problems that can be mostly eliminated with good crossover planning.
Soft dome tweeters, including I think laminated and composite titanium tweeters damp the resonances.

If a metal dome tweeter is well planned, it not have bad ringing problems, and the best about metal domes is, I read, that they are more natural and detailed.

But with poorly recorded or made music (electronically made sounds (from siniwaves)) can have distortion in itself also, that is then heard from the accurate metal dome.

In nature, when playing in a band, I have also noticed that at least some drum sets sound very harsh naturally, so if they are reproduced accurately at home it is not nice.

So, should tweeters be preferebly softer than natural?

marcus_helsinki
09-03-2006, 12:19 PM
It has very good studio sound? But it is more nearfield than 6332...

Shane Shuster
09-03-2006, 09:37 PM
say they that is the order, titanium is better than aluminium and the expensive beryllium better than titanium. Beryllium is said to have less distortion than titanium, and ...

None of them are "better" in all areas. Titanium handles more power but resonates at a lower frequency. Aluminum is cheaper but doesnt handle as much power. Beryllium is expensive and personally I think the money is better spent elsewhere.

Titanium Dome
09-04-2006, 08:39 AM
I've heard well-made Al drivers that sounded better than poor Ti drivers. There are some AL and Ti drivers that sound better than Be drivers in the right application. However, as a general rule, the perception is that Be is at the top of the performance chain and Al is at the bottom.

There is a sense that Be is the soup du jour in metal drivers, though, and it will take some time for it to find its proper place. There was a time when an Al driver was the wunderkind until expensive, well-made Ti drivers replaced it. Now Be is the new, expensive, well-made wonder, and Ti drivers are inexpensive, mass produced, and used (as laminates) even in entry level speakers.

When Be prices and manufacturing techniques become more common, then I expect to see it follow the same path as Al and Ti, ultimately being replaced by a new miracle diaphragm.

In practical terms, if we look at the high end JBL speakers that use metal mid/high frequency drivers, what do we see?
Performance Series: all Ti
Project Array Series: Al and Ti
K2 S9800: all Be

Look at Revel.
Ultima Studio: Ti and Al
Ultima Salon: Ti and Al

This suggests we should look as much at the application as at the composition of a particular metal driver.

MJC
09-04-2006, 11:14 AM
In practical terms, if we look at the high end JBL speakers that use metal mid/high frequency drivers, what do we see?
Performance Series: all Ti
Project Array Series: Al and Ti
K2 S9800: all Be

Look at Revel.
Ultima Studio: Ti and Al
Ultima Salon: Ti and Al

This suggests we should look as much at the application as at the composition of a particular metal driver.
Both the application of the driver material and the total speaker package.
In comparing the L890(w/Ti, but not high end, and doesn't have CC network) to my mirror image, CC network L212(which was high end in '77), the L212s produces a much better soundstage, although the L212s could be improved even more by replacing the Al with Ti and redesigned network for Ti.

Mr. Widget
09-04-2006, 11:39 AM
However, as a general rule, the perception is that Be is at the top of the performance chain and Al is at the bottom.I don't think that is the case. JBL uses AL diaphragms in all of their compression drivers intended for domestic use when Be is too costly for the particular model. Ti is better in terms of durability in pro applications, but it isn't "better" sonically.

For conventional dome radiators there are many examples of linen domes that are superior to Ti or AL... maybe not from JBL, but they should be considered in a discussion of inherent quality.

I certainly agree with you however that you could take Be and make an inferior tweeter to one made of AL or Ti etc... the quality of manufacture and design are certainly as important and probably more so than the material the diaphragm is made of.


Widget

speakerdave
09-04-2006, 11:43 AM
I've heard well-made Al drivers that sounded better than poor Ti drivers. There are some AL and Ti drivers that sound better than Be drivers in the right application. However, as a general rule, the perception is that Be is at the top of the performance chain and Al is at the bottom.

There is a sense that Be is the soup du jour in metal drivers, though, and it will take some time for it to find its proper place. There was a time when an Al driver was the wunderkind until expensive, well-made Ti drivers replaced it. Now Be is the new, expensive, well-made wonder, and Ti drivers are inexpensive, mass produced, and used (as laminates) even in entry level speakers.

When Be prices and manufacturing techniques become more common, then I expect to see it follow the same path as Al and Ti, ultimately being replaced by a new miracle diaphragm.

In practical terms, if we look at the high end JBL speakers that use metal mid/high frequency drivers, what do we see?
Performance Series: all Ti
Project Array Series: Al and Ti
K2 S9800: all Be

Look at Revel.
Ultima Studio: Ti and Al
Ultima Salon: Ti and Al

This suggests we should look as much at the application as at the composition of a particular metal driver.
In the Array series the midrange compression drivers have AQUAPLAS DUSTED aluminum diaphragms. According to GT and others it sounds different from straight aluminum (haven't heard it myself) just as the AQUAPLAS DUSTED titanium diaphragms and domes sound different. I personally find plain titanium domes intolerable--it's just a lot of noise to me-- but the AQUAPLAS DUSTED ones in my LSR32's are just fine.:wave:

David

Zilch
09-04-2006, 11:44 AM
I can say without equivocation that aluminum, with its inherent damping, is a superior material for home listening in compression drivers over undamped titanium diaphragms.

Others here who have done similar comparative evaluations have characterized undamped Ti-diaphragm compression drivers as "unlistenable."

I doubt it's coincidence that JBL is using hybrid aluminum and damped titanium in more of its high-end drivers where the cost of beryllium cannot be justified.

Greg Timbers told us why Ti is used in the supertweeters in lieu of superior Be. The domes can be made of Ti for pennies....

Titanium Dome
09-04-2006, 11:58 AM
I don't think that is the case. JBL uses AL diaphragms in all of their compression drivers intended for domestic use when Be is too costly for the particular model. (snip)
Widget

You don't disagree with me. Just to be clear,


However, as a general rule, the perception is that Be is at the top of the performance chain and Al is at the bottom.

is a reference to the perception of the average consumer enthusiast. It's not my perception and certainly not an assumption on my part that this is how JBL feels in its consumer brands. The short list of top consumer models demonstrates JBL's and Harman's usage patterns and speak for themselves.

Titanium Dome
09-04-2006, 12:03 PM
Also, I think Marcus was focusing on direct radiators, not compression drivers, so we're probably moving the thread away from his original purpose.

Mr. Widget
09-04-2006, 12:04 PM
"However, as a general rule, the perception is that Be is at the top of the performance chain and Al is at the bottom."

is a reference to the perception of the average consumer enthusiast. It's not my perception and certainly not an assumption on my part that this is how JBL feels in its consumer brands. The short list of top consumer models demonstrates JBL's and Harman's usage patterns and speak for themselves.Your post seemed to be accepting that perception and promoting it... perhaps I misread your post due to the hundreds of "give me titanium or give me death" posts I've read of yours.

In general I don't concern myself with the material a driver is made out of... over the years every generalization I held to be true has been blown out of the water.


Widget

Mr. Widget
09-04-2006, 12:07 PM
Also, I think Marcus was focusing on direct radiators, not compression drivers, so we're probably moving the thread away from his original purpose.That's why I brought up linen drivers... they shouldn't be over looked in any comparison of dome tweeters. If one were to assemble the ten best dome tweeters, I'd bet over half would be linen. In fact the very best may not be Beryllium.


Widget

Titanium Dome
09-04-2006, 12:12 PM
Your post seemed to be accepting that perception and promoting it... perhaps I misread your post due to the hundreds of "give me titanium or give me death" posts I've read of yours.

:rotfl: You have me to a Ti.


In general I don't concern myself with what material a driver is made out of... over the years every generalization I held to be true has been blown out of the water.


Widget


There is a sense that Be is the soup du jour in metal drivers...

There was a time when an Al driver was the wunderkind...

When Be prices and manufacturing techniques become more common, then I expect to see it follow the same path as Al and Ti, ultimately being replaced by a new miracle diaphragm.


You simply must stop agreeing with me. People will talk...

MJC
09-04-2006, 12:19 PM
That's why I brought up linen drivers... they shouldn't be over looked in any comparison of dome tweeters. If one were to assemble the ten best dome tweeters, I'd bet over half would be linen. In fact the very best may not be Beryllium.


Widget
Lets not forget linen domes bombarded with Al particles, 066.

Shane Shuster
09-04-2006, 04:36 PM
When Be prices and manufacturing techniques become more common, then I expect to see it follow the same path as Al and Ti, ultimately being replaced by a new miracle diaphragm.

I doubt that will ever happen. Its too dangerous to machine and it's a specialty metal compared to Al or Ti.