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Storm
08-28-2006, 04:02 PM
I was wondering if I could get a pair of Altec model 19 horns and speakers and use the existing crossover to replace the existing drivers.

Would that make a huge difference in the sound, or is the sound essentially what comes out of the design of the crossover?

Thanks.

spkrman57
08-28-2006, 04:40 PM
The sound will be different, whether or not it is better or not is up for personal preference.

I will elaborate further if you wish. Understand this would only be my opinion and not necessarily fact!

Ron

Storm
08-28-2006, 04:42 PM
So, get the model 19 crossover and not the driver?

Yes, please elaborate.

Will it help the high ends to come down a little bit - or is that the result of the horn?

Thanks.

Gary L
08-31-2006, 06:59 AM
I think it is more a combination of both the XO with it's filtering and adjustability and the 802 driver with tangerine phase plugs.
811B horns are the same in all, just the drivers and signal to them are a bit different.

I seriously doubt the human ear could hear much difference by changing only the HF drivers and nothing else. At least not the human ears attached to my head. Others may be in better shape here.

I can hear a nice difference when the drivers and XOs are both changed and I prefer the 1200Hz Model 19 XO with 802-8Gs over the 800Hz 846 with 806s.

Both mine and Quindecimas 19 clones are more 846s in cabinet design but both use 19 drivers and XOs.

Gary

spkrman57
08-31-2006, 07:14 AM
I consider most of the Altec 2-way designs in the same category except for the crossovers and cabinets. What I mean is they mostly use a 416 woofer and a 1" compression driver (804/806/802/902).

For low power use I prefer the 811B at 800hz and 511B at 500hz. I define low power as less than 15 wpc and preferably tubed.

For higher power I prefer the 1.6khz crossover point. Most of my reference on this setup is from the Pi speaker forum.

Also while the 416 is a great driver, I prefer JBL 2226 for bottom end duty. While it will not have as good response below 50hz as the 416 it is quite durable and nice sounding in the midbass/midrange spectrum.

The N1500-8A crossover uses a 2nd order lo-pass and a 3rd order hi-pass section with HF compensation which the original Altec crossovers did not use. They were mostly 2nd order (Butterworth???) with just HF attenuation.

These are just my personal opinions and not to be taken as fact!

Ron




So, get the model 19 crossover and not the driver?

Yes, please elaborate.

Will it help the high ends to come down a little bit - or is that the result of the horn?

Thanks.

JBLRaiser
09-01-2006, 06:40 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ALTEC-19-CROSSOVERS-FOR-416-8B-WOOFERS-802-8D-DRIVERS_W0QQitemZ220021825163QQihZ012QQcategoryZ32 84QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

that should be 'BUY THESE'

Storm
09-01-2006, 10:52 PM
So just change out the crossovers?

Doing that will change the sound substantially? Will that be almost the same as listening to a pair of Model 19s?

Thanks.

JBLRaiser
09-02-2006, 04:50 AM
From all I have gathered, which I will now put in a 'nutshell', crossing over at a higher level will take out some of the 'honking' of the horns, smooth them out and ease your listening experience. Try it, if it isn't a better sound, go back and sell the XO's on Ebay.

Gary L
09-02-2006, 08:17 PM
Hey Storm, Try to understand this if you can and I am not trying to be a wiseguy at all.

Model 19s have a sound that is apparently unique to the model 19s. Lots of folks love them and some don't.

Any speaker sounds the way it sound because of the combination or SUM of all of its parts.
This would mean the cabinets and their materials, all the drivers and this would mean 416 woofers and 811 horns and 802 drivers and then the crossover.

It is possible that only real factory 19s can sound like real factory 19s and they can't be duplicated. I don't believe this but I suppose it is possible.

I do believe that in order to duplicate the particular sound of any speaker model, the SUM of all the parts has to be pretty darn close to the original.

I think rather then attempting to make 846s sound like 19s, you might get more satisfaction out of making 846s sound the way you want them to sound. If you never heard a pair of 19s then you have nothing to base your opinions on or against. You may not like the sound of 19s as compared to your stock 846s! I don't like 846s as much as when compared to 19s but I have heard many of both.

I have no idea if changing XOs and/or changing HF drivers while keeping it all in 846 cabinets will produce the 19 sound. If I had 846s and were going to try, I would do both and buy 19 XOs and 802-8G and put them in your cabinets with your 416 woofers and listen. I would certainly want to know all the new Vintage parts you buy are performing properly before passing judgement and then you would still need to know the sound of 19s to base your opinion on.

You can't get the answers you are so desperately seeking here.
The best test will always be 19s and 846s side by side in your room, on your equipment and A/B testing. If you do this and like the 19 sound better, then you start trying to make the 846s sound the same.

Does a steak taste better if it comes from an animal raised in NY or in NJ?
Only your taste buds can answer this and likewise with this speaker issue.

Listen to 19s, listen to your 846s, preferably on the same equipment and make your own determination. As you are well aware, all 846s are not the same and all 19s are not the same. Along the line Altec made some changes in components for each. Your 846s might sound better then my 19s just because!
Two bullets, both shot from the same gun, hit the target in two different spots. There are way too many variables to determine why!

Gary

TnTn
09-03-2006, 12:00 AM
Storm,

You might not want to bid on the 802-8G's just yet as they will not fit in your 846b cabinets due to the deeper 802 magnet. That was the first thing I tried when I got the 846b's because I like the sound from my 802's (older, non-tangerine type). I have not done it because I don't have the drivers, but you might want to try the 902-8G as its ceramic magnet is more compact and it has the tangerine phase plug.

If you have a smaller room and you don't listen that loud, the 846B's would probably give you a more coherent sound due to the closer spacing of the horn/woofer. The Model 19 is noticeably better overall if you have a decent size room that will allow you to not have to sit too close. There are a few iterations of the 19's so you should become familiar with them instead of just buying blindly. Also, people sometimes swap different components into the 19 cabinets.

T.

Storm
09-03-2006, 12:20 AM
Thank you for all of the input...

I guess I will stick to the stock 846's. I thought the debate was more of a clear cut....guess not.

My room is about 14' x 22'.

The only thing that I was wanting to improve and I thought the 19's did it, was the high end and mid's are a little rough on mine.

But, as we all know - it is all what you put through them that makes the difference.

I am very happy with mine and unless a pair of 19's jump into my lap like these did, I am delighted to have such a wonderful pair of speakers to live with.

I guess it is this debate is like any JBL debate on this thread, ie... 4343 and 4342's.

:)

I would LOVE to bring my 846's to anyone who has stock Model 19's so we can do a side by side. Anyone?? I don't drink beer, but will bring some.

:)

Zilch
09-03-2006, 12:44 AM
I guess it is this debate is like any JBL debate on this thread, ie... 4343 and 4342's.Indeed so.

Will the 4342 proponent step forward PLEASE? ;)

Storm
09-03-2006, 12:47 AM
Sorry about that. I am clearly not a JBL nut. What I was trying to say was that the Model 19 and 846 debate is just like any other debate between two JBL speakers that are close in design and model number.

:D

JBLRaiser
09-03-2006, 05:50 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/DYNACO-ST-70-STEREO-TUBE-AMPLIFIER-VERY-VERY-CLEAN_W0QQitemZ170025002389QQihZ007QQcategoryZ5059 3QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/DYNACO-DYNAKIT-PAS-3-STEREO-PREAMP-PREAMPLIFIER_W0QQitemZ330024018602QQihZ014QQcatego ryZ67807QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Phil H
09-03-2006, 10:37 AM
Indeed so.

Will the 4342 proponent step forward PLEASE? ;)The 4342 have very transparent sound :uhmmmm:

TnTn
09-03-2006, 11:32 AM
Storm,

Your room should be big enough for the 19's. If you run into a deal for them, definitely go for them. As for the 846b's high frequency extension, you could get one of those cute Fostex tweeters in the used market. Put a cap and an L-PAD or resistor in series and you are set to go.

T.